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Posted: 9/23/2014 5:36:16 PM EDT
Today in a public speaking class I was told I was not allowed to do my speech on metallic cartridge reloading. From what I could gather the teachers reasoning was that she thinks reloading is the same thing as making a bomb? This is total BS. Does anyone know who I would be able to contact regarding the decision made by this teacher? I wouldn't be making a big deal about it but ive already spent 3 weeks working on this speech.
-Luke 9/30/14 update Took the issue to the department head who talked in circles. I finally got them to agree to take it up the chain to the dean of students. if the dean signs off on my outline I will be good to go if not I will be forced to pick a different topic. The department head made reference to a bill or some form of legislation that they will be voting on that would allow ccw on campus or force them to install weapons lockers. that may be more incendiary than reloading. I hope so atleast. 10/3/14 Email from instructor about final decision. Good Morning Lucas- I met with Dean Castaneda yesterday. She is the dean of students on campus. I shared your outline with her and let her know the following about your topic per our discussion with Jim this past Tuesday: 1.The students have been informed. 2.Not bringing items in. 3.How you know the subject very well because it is your job. 4.Focusing on the campus gun bill as an alternative informative topic as long it sticks to the facts and is not a persuasion. After careful consideration it has been decided that the topic, metallic cartridge reloading, will not be presented in the classroom for the reason outlined on page 298 of the 2014-2015 GCC General Catalog and Student Handbook. I've attached the page below. On the attachment under the subtitle Policy it states that certain behaviors are prohibited from the campus. Some of the prohibited behaviors can include "oral or written statements, gestures, or expressions that communicate direct or indirect threat of physical harm." It could also include what was outlined under the subtitle Prohibited Behavior which includes: "implications or suggestions of violence", "any other act that a reasonable person would perceive as constituting a threat of violence", or "blatant or intentional disregard for the safety or well-being of others". A new topic will be needed for your speech. It was decided that the campus gun bill topic would be ok as long as you stick to the information and it isn't persuasive. If you have any further questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to contact me at the contact information provided below. |
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Probably some administrator in the office or one of the department chairs?
http://www2.gccaz.edu/instructional-departments Did she give you any outlines/restrictions on what subjects you could do? Is there anything in the syllabus on subject restrictions? |
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Probably some administrator in the office or one of the department chairs? http://www2.gccaz.edu/instructional-departments Did she give you any outlines/restrictions on what subjects you could do? Is there anything in the syllabus on subject restrictions? View Quote None whatsoever. she told me she felt that she was uncomfortable with me instructing people on how to reload...... ITS MY FUCKING JOB. i will check the student handbook also. |
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I found the procedure for a formal grievance. i have sent an email so as to start a paper trail of sorts.
I had really good luck with my teachers at GCC one was a hunter another i ended up trading rifles with. |
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Don't they have firearm training courses at GCC?
I answered my own question already. They do: http://www2.gccaz.edu/academics/departments/public-safety-science/LEO/civilian-firearms-training |
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Don't they have firearm training courses at GCC? I answered my own question already. They do: http://www2.gccaz.edu/academics/departments/public-safety-science/LEO/civilian-firearms-training View Quote That is what I was going to say. My freind took that class. |
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Great, another libtard who cannot handle someone not having the same opinions as them. And this is why I am full on accusing today's teacher's as trying to thought reform our students.
I hope it works out in your favor, Luke. |
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Yeah, good luck. Keep us updated.
Just don't go overboard. You don't want this to comeback and bite you down the road. |
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She is wrong and you are right but good luck getting anyone to do anything about it.
I went at it with a teacher at PVCC and nothing ever came of it no matter how high up the chain I went. She tried to not let me take a piss a couple times and she went ape shit when she couldn't stop me, she went as far as to starting an "investigation" on me to see if I was cheating in her 100 level class lol. The teacher did back off me personally eventually but I had a friend take the class the next semester after me and she was back up to her usual bullshit again he said. |
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I remember my friend in high school who did a presentation on how to manufacture cocaine. Teacher cut him off on his third sentence and after the lawyers got through he got to do his presentation and she failed him. A guy who worked for a pharmaceutical company who was a friend was asked to grade the presentation and he said the guy nailed it. He ended up getting a a for it.
I love it when people rock the boat. Hope it turns out well for you and you can find another subject to piss her off with on your next presentation. |
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The final speech is supposed to be persuasive. Im going to do gun control I think. That should be fun. or a persuasive speech on how fear of inanimate objects is a mental disorder. or I may just do something easier so I can get an a and finally be done with the cesspool that is the education system
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That is correct in my experience. At least one person participating in the conversation must be aware of the recording. |
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I will upload the recording tonight, she used the gun grabber mentality of you cant do that because what if somebody hurts someone with it.
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Call Clark ,he is a bit of a dick but should be able to help you . He is a teacher in the computer dept there . cell # 602-432-2822.
Clark loves to argue and won't stop until he has won the argument ,he is a shooter so he should be sympathetic to your cause . Clark D. Shipley Computer Information Systems (Business & CIS) 623/845-3868 [email protected] |
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Call Clark ,he is a bit of a dick but should be able to help you . He is a teacher in the computer dept there . cell # 602-432-2822. Clark loves to argue and won't stop until he has won the argument ,he is a shooter so he should be sympathetic to your cause . View Quote I had Clark when I was working at Ben Avery. Awesome dude! I wonder if he ever got his 10mm glock he was talking about during class. Lol |
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Talking to the teacher again after class. Couldn't catch professor Shipley this am he teaches next to my first class but I had to get to class.
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Took the issue to the department head who talked in circles. I finally got them to agree to take it up the chain to the dean of students. if the dean signs off on my outline I will be good to go if not I will be forced to pick a different topic. The department head made reference to a bill or some form of legislation that they will be voting on that would allow ccw on campus or force them to install weapons lockers. that may be more incendiary than reloading. I hope so atleast.
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Her class, her rules. A lot of life, especially in the work place, is being able to perform takes you may not like. Actually, that's most of the work experience. College is not so much about the information but learning to play nicely with others to get a task completed. How well you respond to doing something you don't want to do is a big part of the experience. It's not really the information (unless it's engineering or something of that nature).
If I was your teacher, I wouldn't let you do it based solely on your desire of the subject. I'd have you do a speech on something you don't believe in or something you know little about. It's a much better exercise, but then again, you're not at Stanford either. You should try a speech on existentialism (bad things happen to good people). It's much more interesting than reloading. |
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Not completely but there's a nugget or two of reality in there.
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The instructions were to pick a topic that you are familiar with to enhance your confidence. Plenty of people are doing their speeches on their jobs or a part of their job that they do. The guy that works at Petsmart is doing his informative speech on choosing the right dog food. The lady that works with autistic children is doing her speech on autism. So because my job has to do with guns im not allowed to give my speech on reloading. Its fucking stupid and arbitrary at best. If they are going to limit the topics that can be chosen for the assignment then they need to A, list the taboo subjects or B, make everyone pic a subject and have the teacher sign off on it before you do 2.5 weeks of work on the assignment. I finally got a good recording of our conversation I will work on uploading it when I get a free moment, don't have too many of them.
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The instructions were to pick a topic that you are familiar with to enhance your confidence. Plenty of people are doing their speeches on their jobs or a part of their job that they do. The guy that works at Petsmart is doing his informative speech on choosing the right dog food. The lady that works with autistic children is doing her speech on autism. So because my job has to do with guns im not allowed to give my speech on reloading. Its fucking stupid and arbitrary at best. If they are going to limit the topics that can be chosen for the assignment then they need to A, list the taboo subjects or B, make everyone pic a subject and have the teacher sign off on it before you do 2.5 weeks of work on the assignment. I finally got a good recording of our conversation I will work on uploading it when I get a free moment, don't have too many of them. View Quote From the description of the assignment, I'd say you have a really good argument. She's kinda of backtracking if that's the case. |
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That's ridiculous. I did public speaking at MCC over summer break, there was 6 of us that gave speeches on guns and/or self defense. There was no butthurt to be found.
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ive been following this and I am surprised as well. A few years back I did the same thing at EMCC and my topic WAS reloading. Only thing the teacher asked is i either didnt bring in the primers or the powder (just didnt want a live round). I asked if i could bring in a used primer and this way there is no chance of a live round being made and he had no issue with that.
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Now I have had a few people tell me that I should talk to a lawyer about this situation, they told me to wait until after I graduated which as long as I pass this class will be in December. Who would I contact? According to the Goldwater Institutes website they are running low on money and wont be taking new cases anytime soon. Any other suggestions? Should I even bother? Personally I feel like they have violated my 1st amendment rights. What say the wisdom of the HTF?
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its seems like their policy is so vague that it covers pretty much anything they don't like.Plus im almost 100% sure that when you signed up for classes, you signed a document stating that you will adhere to student code and conduct.
sucks ass but im not sure what else you can do .....its unfortunate that all these policy's have to be written to "protect the students" |
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They teach gun classes through the college. The guys in the law enforcement classes(not necessarily sworn officers) carry guns into the Public Safety building. It's just bullshit. My argument now is that my job in part is talking to people about reloading, they are saying that my job constitutes violence.
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Don't know if NRA would be interested.
There is also the Gun Owners Foundation from Gun Owners of America |
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Quoted: Now I have had a few people tell me that I should talk to a lawyer about this situation, they told me to wait until after I graduated which as long as I pass this class will be in December. Who would I contact? According to the Goldwater Institutes website they are running low on money and wont be taking new cases anytime soon. Any other suggestions? Should I even bother? Personally I feel like they have violated my 1st amendment rights. What say the wisdom of the HTF? View Quote Did you go to college to get a degree or to prove a point? Getting a lawyer involved will be a costly and lengthy process just because you are being stubborn. It sucks that you worked on the speech already, but it's hardly worth your time. You'd be better off just writing a new speech, it will be less effort and less time involved. Pick your battles in life, this one is not worth it. Get the degree, and hopefully it enriches your earning potential.Who gives shit what some community college teacher thinks? In five years you won't give a shit either.
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sadly, i got to agree. I am sure most can agree most schools/colleges lean to the left. If it BS, yeah. is it worth the headache / $$$ spent / time... thats up to you. I would just switch topics, get the piece of paper from them that says ur smart(er) and move on.
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So, Rap music cannot be discussed in any form on campus, right?
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So, Rap music cannot be discussed in any form on campus, right? View Quote Thatd be racist to stop them from discussing their music. We talk about guns before class starts, theres a former cop an army sergeant and another guy who likes shooting in that class. All of the teachers references to public speakers are Obama oprah and MLK............... |
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Tread lightly for now & just get the pathetic class over with. BUT definitely make some calls & and send out some emails to see if anyone is interested in taking it up. Trust me - anymore ruffling feathers from you directly (& without legal backup) they'll go after you & try to kick you out.
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Change schools. Vote with your wallet. Tell the dean to FOAD on your way out if it makes you feel better, but he won't care.
I applaud you wanting to fight, but I agree with the others. Their pockets are deeper than yours. If you're one of the 0.0001% who get your issue on the front page of Fox News, good on ya. You'd have better chances of winning the lotto tho. Or do the topic anyway and suffer the consequences (I'd say call the ACLU but you, like me, sound like you're allergic to liberals) Just my $0.02. |
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You could try approaching the subject as "a mechanical processes of how to" speech.
I don't know if that'd help, but it couldn't get any worse. Sorry bro. Good luck. |
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Simple, if you can't do it about "metallic cartridge reloading", do it on reloading shotgun shells.
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I'd also call the NRA. And although I pretty much hate their guts, I'd drop a dime to the ACLU as well. Free speech `an all that. |
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been watching this as side "entertainment" but here goes....
-If you fight this you will NOT "win". Sure you might get a grade, but you will not see "satisfaction" -You risk an entire degree/course of work over a speech. Is that risk vs reward worth it to YOU -Their house their rules...does apply here as well. Yes it is a shit policy/ruling but you can only push so far and it sounds like up to this point NO-ONE at the campus is on your side -In regards to education in general...my thought has been do the work, get the paper and move on. Most of my "education" has been outside of a classroom/school but without that paper it is hard to get a job Good luck but i say move on to a non gun topic, ace the class and have some whiskey later when you are done. |
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It is a well know fact academia in this country is made up of left wing gun grabbing socialists . They preach tolerance ,but are always the least tolerant of peoples rights that don't agree with their slanted left wing view of things. They are not going to change unless we stand up and challenge their warped perverted ideology . Every day they further brain wash and corrupt the impressionable students that are the next generation and vote based on the crap they have been force fed by these misguided fools .
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Would be fun to see your employer get involved. Maybe a flyover is in order?
Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway. As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them. I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch. |
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Maybe the school administrators would prefer you give a speech on the purchasing habits of the FSA using food stamps. Hours of material and examples there. |
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Quoted: Would be fun to see your employer get involved. Maybe a flyover is in order? Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway. As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them. I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch. View Quote The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading. The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money.
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Quoted: been watching this as side "entertainment" but here goes.... -If you fight this you will NOT "win". Sure you might get a grade, but you will not see "satisfaction" -You risk an entire degree/course of work over a speech. Is that risk vs reward worth it to YOU -Their house their rules...does apply here as well. Yes it is a shit policy/ruling but you can only push so far and it sounds like up to this point NO-ONE at the campus is on your side -In regards to education in general...my thought has been do the work, get the paper and move on. Most of my "education" has been outside of a classroom/school but without that paper it is hard to get a job Good luck but i say move on to a non gun topic, ace the class and have some whiskey later when you are done. View Quote |
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Quoted: Yeah reading is for fags and all that View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Would be fun to see your employer get involved. Maybe a flyover is in order? Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway. As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them. I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch. The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading. The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money. |
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Hard to believe you can get college credit for shaving your pubic hair but can give a speech on reloading.
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Quoted: The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would be fun to see your employer get involved. Maybe a flyover is in order? Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway. As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them. I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch. The BEST possible outcome from a fight in this scenario is a good grade in the class after giving the speech on reloading. The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money. Can you make a living without a degree? Hell yes. Is it as common or easy? Hell no. Here are the facts: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html |
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The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money. He is it right in some aspects, 9 out of 10 people work in fields that you don't even need a degree to work in. Not everyone needs a college degree and to be honest most people shouldn't try to get one they are just wasting their money. You know how many people there are in the U.S. with bachelors degrees right now who are out serving coffee or managing a grocery store, etc. They do not need their degrees and for them it was a waste of cash. There is wayyy too much emphasis on getting a degree on young people these days not everyone is a unique special snow flake most people should not go to college, most people out of highschool these days will go to college and take out huge loans that will haunt them the rest of their life just to be a bar tender or to work the counter at a car rental place. Your earning potential with a degree is higher, plain and simple. All that stuff you just wrote is what people who have little education always say to me. If people with a degree are working entry level jobs, imagine trying to get a job without one. Can you make a living without a degree? Hell yes. Is it as common or easy? Hell no. Here are the facts: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Would be fun to see your employer get involved. Maybe a flyover is in order? Just goes to show that college degrees are, in general, a crock of shit anyway. As someone else already said, vote with your wallet, as little as it will mean to them. I'd get my banked credits transferred elsewhere, refund on the current class, and fight the shit out of it from a safe perch. The worst case is failing the class and wasting a lot of time, effort, and maybe money. He is it right in some aspects, 9 out of 10 people work in fields that you don't even need a degree to work in. Not everyone needs a college degree and to be honest most people shouldn't try to get one they are just wasting their money. You know how many people there are in the U.S. with bachelors degrees right now who are out serving coffee or managing a grocery store, etc. They do not need their degrees and for them it was a waste of cash. There is wayyy too much emphasis on getting a degree on young people these days not everyone is a unique special snow flake most people should not go to college, most people out of highschool these days will go to college and take out huge loans that will haunt them the rest of their life just to be a bar tender or to work the counter at a car rental place. Your earning potential with a degree is higher, plain and simple. All that stuff you just wrote is what people who have little education always say to me. If people with a degree are working entry level jobs, imagine trying to get a job without one. Can you make a living without a degree? Hell yes. Is it as common or easy? Hell no. Here are the facts: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html Is an employer going to hire a person with a degree over a person without one? Yes. Will that degree actually apply to the job? Probably not, unless your in a STEM field or doing something that is actually related to your degree. The reason people need degrees today isn't because they actually apply to the job they will end up with, but because everyone has been conditioned to believe a degree is necessary so it's expected now. Let me ask you something, if you spend $40-$50k getting a degree to start making $30k a year vs. $25k a year without, and it takes you 4-5 years to get that degree (time where you really aren't making much if any money at all), are you really that much better off? I attend the U of A and tuition for an instate undergrad is over $5k per semester for a full time student. Most students will require more than 8 semesters to graduate. A lot of those students are from out of state (CA and other surrounding states) and pay over $10k per semester (That's $80-$100k for a bachelor's degree at a state school!). I'm studying engineering and I will be happy if I can land a job in Tucson after graduation with a starting salary of $45k a year. There are two main reasons I decided to go back to school: for one, Uncle Sugar decided he still owned me a little something for my time served, and two, I like engineering and would probably never be able to land a job doing it without an accredited certification, not to mention learning stuff like calculus, mechanics, and circuits on one's own would be extremely difficult. Most students don't have the aptitude or desire to pursue a STEM degree so they waste their (or their parent's) money on some bullshit humanities degree. If they have any wits about them at all they will at least go for something business related. But even then, they are looking at being middle management and averaging maybe $40-$60k a year and most of that will be coming later in their careers (closer to retirement age). When you factor in the actual costs and the opportunity costs (money not made while attending school), Reservist is right, most people probably shouldn't go to college. College should be a place for people to learn technical skills. Not a place for students to explore culture or their inner selves. The reason a degree cost so damn much today is because our society has needlessly created this fallacy that everyone should be college educated. I don't need or want the person changing the oil on my truck to have a degree. However, I do want the guy that designed the truck to have one. A far better system than everyone going to college would be 1) tougher standards in high school and 2) apprenticeship/internships straight out of high school. Of course, that would turn off the taps of all the government money flowing into academia and we can't have that! Now, don't even get me started on all the bullshit classes I have to take that have nothing to do with engineering and will contribute nothing to my interests or future career! |
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