I am a traveling repair technician that covers the state of FL. I drive a lot, for longer trips I rent cars to keep the miles off my personal vehicle.

Yesterday I was in a 2017 Hyundai Elantra rental car going south on the turnpike from Orlando to Boca Raton. I had my cruise control set to 75mph (5mph over limit) and I was just listening to an audio book and enjoying my ride without a rush.

I was at mile marker 174 in Indian River county in the slow lane and saw a FHP car on the side of the road on the outside lane side. I naturally move over to the inside lane as I am supposed to and check my speed, still right on 75, no worries.

I then see him start to move and put his lights on to pull me over. My thoughts were either he is a stickler about the 5mph over, I was in a 65mph section and didn't realize it or I had a light out that he saw.

So now I'm pulled over, both windows down, hazards on, car off, keys on the dash with both hands on the steering wheel. What he said when he came up almost made me laugh, clocked me on radar at 94mph.

The standard license, registration and proof of insurance came next and I'm sitting there dumbfounded. I look and the dash and visualize where 94 is on the speedometer, no way I was going 94. I would have known I was going 94, no doubt.

The trooper comes back with a ticket and tells me I can set up a court date, I stop him to ask about radar calibrations and if I can see them. He says not on the side of the road, I only get them in court. I express that I am extremely confused and there was no way I was going 94mph.

He was an older cop with a "I don't have time for this" attitude. We politely said our goodbyes and went about our business.

So now I'm stuck with a 94 in a 70 speeding ticket and I'm 100% sure I was going only 75mph. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. It looks like an uphill battle that I am destined to lose at this point.


TL/DR: Cruise set to 75 in a 70 and the ticket is for 94, I'm innocent and need advice.

Attorney.

There are attorneys who are very good at making speeding tickets go away. Find one.

Cards will appear in the mail soon.

I have never used one myself, so I have no recommendation, I have had one speeding ticket in the last 30 years, and I earned it.

Get a dash cam that has gps. It will record your speed in the video. Use it every where you go. It won't help you now but you may need it in the future.

Going forward, since you travel a lot, there are a number of speed tracking apps that you can run on your phone, some also serve as mileage logs for tax purposes. 

I think I might contact the rental car company and see if GPS tracking is installed in the car.  See it they can give you a log??

I'll likely have to get a lawyer here but was hoping for another option or suggestion for who to hire.

A dash cam with GPS is one of the first things I'm about to buy. I need to find out what is legally required for one.

The rental didn't have a GPS of it's own and so far it looks like it didn't have a speed regulator set to 90mph or below. The tires are likely factory and not a different size.

I'm still trying to see if my android phone already had a type of speed/GPS tracking but no results so far.

Looks like I'm guilty until proven innocent.

My advice... just do the BDI and pay the fine and avoid points.

Why? Trooper's certs are no doubt in order. You won't win simply offering "I was not speeding, the Trooper is in error" as a defense. The Judges I've been before will take note at the 75 MPH setting which shows you knowingly and intentionally exceeded 70 MPH (minor overage but that's not the legal point) as well as you were in an unfamiliar car. NOTE: people reading this might laugh and think BS but I'm telling you I've seen it time and time again before multiple Judges.

If you involve a Traffic Lawyer, all they will do in MOST cases is negotiate the same deal except you will pay the lawyer's fees in addition. I know... I've watched it for years and think to myself what a rip-off. People paid a lawyer to do what they could have easily done from home.

Sucks... but sometimes in life it's not as important to be "right" as it is to manage the overall cost of being "right".

Trooper may very well screwed up... but why let it cost you more in the long run?

Good luck!

what's your opinion if the OP had a dash cam w/GPS?  Assume that he was doing 70, not 75 for the reasons you described?  Pretty much get dismissed then?  

It seems more and more they are very inexpensive and handy tools for mistakes like this or fender benders.  

Good question... I don't know for sure.

I would think the Judge would take it on face value the information provided is creditable and consider a dismissal. Then again, the Judge may not allow unverified electronic based evidence... this is why Radar units must be bench tested every six months to be used in court.

You're actually lucky. That section of 95 is currently under construction, and the posted speed limit is 60mph, not 70mph. So, you could've gotten a much higher ticket. The Trooper you are referring to is actually a pretty good guy, and he usually doesn't write BS tickets. I'm not taking his side in this, just so that's clear. I'm just saying he is not one of those asshole cops I keep hearing about.

What?

Years ago crossing the alley a similar situation happened... I was doing 75 in the right lane at about 10 at night. I see a van come up behind me and he gets in the left lane to pass me once he gets just ahead of me, he slows down and gets back behind me...

Sure thing I see a trooped make a u-turn and pull me over for doing 90-something in a 70.

After seeing the cost of Collier traffic lawyers I just pain the ticket.

fhp.....$75 or less ticket clinic & don't worry about it.  Your NOT going to win if you fight it. He says you were going 94, you can't offer any proof you weren't.

Also you didn't say...were you carrying?  did you inform?  fhp doesn't like legal concealed carriers....

I'll likely bring the ticket to the ticket clinic unless there is a better suggestion.


I was on the clock so I wasn't carrying. I technically could have but I would have to leave it in the car while at my customer's location and I don't trust that.

You have me wondering now if I was carrying, as I understand it in FL I do not have to declare it when pulled over but I do have to inform if asked.
If the officer then asks to see the gun do I have the right to refuse? Would it fall under the "keep and bear" part of the 2A?
I understand the cops desire for his safety and to check if it is stolen but I don't like taking it out unnecessarily for my own safety reasons.
Do I hand it to him loaded or unload first? What can he do if I refuse? All reasons that I would rather just shut up about it.

Normally I would say to not be doing something that would get me pulled over but apparently that didn't work in this case.

You pay a lawyer to avoid points or having to take a driving course and using up one of your 5. I gladly pay a ticket attorney $200-300 to avoid the hassle.

If you're carrying and the officer asks you must declare.

After declaring, I'd strongly suggest you follow the officer's orders and not fuss with your gun in any way.

If he doesn't ask I recommend you abide by the law and don't declare but pay attention to what your hands are doing.

Just curious...why MUST I declare if asked.  Not, if I should or not out of curtesy, but under what statute MUST I declare.

In all my years of Traffic Court this has not been my experience.

A Traffic Lawyer will come to ME before court and ask if I object to the sentence of BDI, fine, and no points... I've never said no. When you ask for an Infraction Hearing you waive the options previously afforded and subject yourself to much worse possible sentencing.

I can't ever recall a situation involving a traffic case, mine, another officers, or a Troopers, that has not gone this way in the courts I've been in.

Not saying it's not possible, just saying that's not been my experience.

Just to clarify for those who may not know and are interested... when you get a citation you have three options: 1) pay the fine stated on the citation; 2) take BDI, pay a fine, avoid points; or 3) request an Infraction Hearing. When you request the hearing, you waive your rights to options 1 & 2.

In our Traffic Court, the Judge ALWAYS starts off by advising those who requested a hearing that the court understands people are upset when they get a citation, and with little thought, request the hearing not fully understanding what they are asking for or what rights they are waiving. Defendants are advised that they have subject themselves to, among other sanctions, a $500.00 fine, DL suspension of up to six months, and mandatory BDI if the court finds no meritorious defense was presented. In other words, if you waste the courts time, you're going to get it.

He goes on to say that they will be given the opportunity before their case is called to elect "The Option"... which allows the person to enjoy the previously waived right to go to BDI school, pay a slightly elevated fine, and avoid points. Usually about 90% of those there for a hearing elect the option. The other 10% usually are good for a laugh with one on occasion having a good defense. All I've ever seen Traffic Lawyers do is come to the Officers before court and ask if they object to "The Option"... the only time you can't take the option is 1) you were charged with 30 MPH or more over the posted limit; 2) you have a CDL; 3) you have had a citation within the last year. I've never seen a Traffic Lawyer broker a better deal.

I used to think this option was unique to our court but after years of going to classes and training events around the state, it's fairly common in other courts. That's why it seems to me all a Traffic Lawyer does is get you the same thing you could have got for yourself but at a higher cost.

You do not... common misunderstanding of the requirement to produce your CC License vs. disclosure of the fact you are armed... my legal guidance has been the two are different and reading the text of the law supports this guidance... but I think you already know this...

Get a lawyer.  I had the exact same thing happen ~10 years ago, except the ticket was for 112mph.  I was the caboose in a train of ~6-8 cars doing 5 over the speed limit.  My lawyer said that in the municipal court I would be going to, the Judge always took the LEO's word.  The fine would have been $300 and many points.  He talked to the prosecutor and I pled guilty to parking in a no parking zone with a $200 fine and no points.  The lawyer charged me $100.  It did not save me any money but I did not get a moving infraction on my records.

ETA:  My lawyer was from my hometown (I had known him for years) and the ticket was two towns over, so no collusion.

Maybe it depends on the county. You obviously have a larger sample size, but I have used a ticket attorney for three speeding tickets and in none of those cases did I have to take driving school. It was pay a fine and court costs and I'm on my way.

Thanks for taking the time to confirm.

Funny because I was on that same stretch of Turnpike on Sunday afternoon (coming back to Ft.Lauderdale from Orlando) and I had my cruise control set at 85 mph and I was getting passed constantly by faster drivers.  FHP on side of road didn't stop anyone.

I don't know if the judge will accept GPS speed data as it's accuracy can't be verified, but having it can't hurt.  The worst that can happen is you bring it and the judge refuses to consider it.

Also, if you elect to take the hearing and have any data or evidence to bring to court make sure you have hard copies of it and it's not stored on your phone.  Some court houses don't allow cell phones inside and I've seen several defendants fail to bring what they believe to be exculpatory information to court because their phone is in their car.

I wish you luck.  It's a shit situation for sure.

Interesting situation, sorry to hear that. I drive that corridor about once a week.

Just a question, could be stupid, were you blowing by everyone or were they passing you before that?


Edit: when I travel, I always turn on the Waze app. it shows most police locations as well as posted speed limits and your current speed.

I was passing some and some were passing me. Just a normal day of traffic. I am on the Turnpike 1-2 times a week so it the same routine. Cruise on 75, audio book playing and I'll get there when I get there.

At the time of getting pulled over I remember not seeing any cars in front of me but there were cars behind me. The officer said I was "leading the pack"

I was able to read about radar and it pulls the fastest and strongest signal that is coming back, regardless of if it is in front or not. The funny thing is the officer said that was impossible but my research says that the tightest beam of radar is 9 degrees and at the 100 yards he saw me at is about 47 feet wide. Plenty possible to get a different car. His impossible situation is a known but rare error with radar.

So if someone behind me was going 94 and the officer was just looking in his mirrors and saw me I can see how this happened. It's frustrating and soon to be expensive.

I've seen waze before and like everything else, still wouldn't have helped here. I'm still hearing mixed reviews on if a dash cam would have helped. The officer could say my view was obstructed and then ticket me for that, if he suspects audio recording that he will give me a hard time about that possible even arrest, finally even with video/gps proof the judge can still dismiss it like it never existed.

Now I'm just trying to decide which pair of shoes to look at while bending over.

Yes... the target speed displayed comes from the strongest return and is confirmed by the audio Doppler tone emitted from the radar unit... thus a two-way check and balance.

However, before radar is used, the Officer must first establish what is called TRACKING HISTORY. The Officer must first visually detect a speed violation with an estimation... and then confirms the estimation with the radar unit. Legally cops just can't sit there pegging everyone until a violator is detected... but I'm sure many do and end up perhaps lying in court when presenting their case when it comes to the requirement of establishing tracking history.

Unless you can successfully estimate vehicle speed while stationary and moving with a +/- 3 MPH margin of error, you won't pass radar school.

Some radar units return two speeds... the fastest and strongest. Works great in school zones when you see a distant vehicle covering ground fast catching up to slower traffic. The skill level among cops using radar varies greatly... some use it correctly, some don't.

call the ticket clinic, they have a standard procedure and 75% of the time the ticket gets thrown out and all you do is pay fees

I've gotten tons of speeding tickets on turnpike/I95 going to and from college of the years in the state of FL

not a huge issue...

Let's see the NIST validated Cal Cert on the dash/cam GPS for that day. Don't have one? Sorry, please pay the cashier.... 

The ticket clinic

GPS speed tests have been shown to be accurate within .1-.3%.  Not like your going to move satellites and adjust their signals.  

I guess you could try and argue and explain doppler shift and how its is used to determine speed to a judge, but they would still throw it out. 

Not all GPS is created equal, which is why certain accuracy and certification level are required for FAA compliance for instance. 

that has more to do with computing altitude, its a little bit trickier

I'm not talking LPV, I'm talking accuracy issues we're seeing with the implementation of for instance ADS-B. I've seen compliance reports from inaccurate GPS, and it was all over the place.

My point is, not all GPS is created equal and isn't all equally accurate. I wouldn't expect a judge to take an Amazon cheap Chinese dash cam speed readout over a calibrated and certified radar gun.

Just my $0.02. 

Do you mind sharing which one?

I use an older Blackvue.  Easy to wire into the mirror for power & small you don't notice it at all.  They have much better models now though. But mine works great still. GPS, displays speed on the record, software lets you track where you have driven.

I have no idea if it would help, but as it was the Turnpike, you should have the timestamp of the last tollbooth you went through, and the time of the infraction, with a little math, you can determine your speed.  I don't know if it would help, as you cannot prove a constant speed, but it would definately go to corroborating any other evidence you might have.....but I too would go with the Ticket Clinic.

Seems if you have a dash cam you don't need to rely on GPS speed.  Measure a distance traveled over time from 
the camera view and use it to verify the GPS speed.  QED

Ok OP...
I was just in the same car same route.....I don't know HOW the trooper could clock you doing 94.  My cruise was set at 80 the whole trip.
And I did pass a few.  You SURE you maybe wasn't passing someone?   Something doesn't add up.....

FUK FHP..there. The cop was mad he was old and pulling down $37k a year.

The Ticket Clinic. My son in law was in my M5 and got nailed by FHP..for 100 in a 70. He simply sent whatever to the Ticket Clinic and got off.

My wife got pulled over on 95..by FHP..a few years ago. I was 5 mins behind her and saw the cops and knew it was her, she had a 911 at the time and has a very heavy foot.

I pull over to wait for her and end up standing at t he rear of her car. The trooper started to tell me her car was new and had like 100 miles on it.The tires still had the new stickers on them. I was like hmmmm..so I ask to see her book with the calibrated Speedo document for today's date. The car was so new the Speedo was never Calibrated.

In court I asked for the docs..case dismissed. The trooper was furious.

So the Trooper paced your wife to determine her speed?

Your story is very interesting. 30+ requires a mandatory court appearance so claiming the ticket was 100 in a 70 and was simply given to the Ticket Clinic resulting in him "getting off" is a difficult one to believe...

Also, YOU requesting documents in an Infraction Hearing on behalf of your wife does not sound like ANY courtroom procedure I've ever heard... are/were you a lawyer representing her? Or did you tell your wife to request the Speedometer calibration certification...?

Not calling BS, as strange things do happen... I just never get to see all these strange things that seem to get posted on the internet.

30 over also minimum fine of $500.00 and then there is the 50 over at $1,000.00.  I have seen judges take driver's licenses on the spot.  But.............

Come on you know you are very wrong.  It doesn't matter that you might know something about Radar and all the requirements necessary. So you take the 40 hour class that is certified by FDLE and pass it with 80 percent on the written and then the 40 day and 40 night guesses with an average of no more that =/- 3 MPH.  You get your vehicle speedometer calibrated every 6 months.  Have the radar unit calibrated every six months and then you have to test it with the tuning forks at the beginning and end of every shift.  Oh yeah you have to write it down in a log.  So I guess that is all trumped by some guy that has an uncertified GPS unit and he is going to beat you all day long and twice on Sunday.  Dang Six Point you can't catch a break..............

Smart ass off.

Six point is correct in what he is saying.

In all my years of police work I've never seen a fleet vehicle delivered with stickers on the tires...

Yes. I believe she said it was for 3 miles.

I was on my phone so I kept it short

The SIL was doing 30 over, however the trooper gave him a break so it would fall under the 30 penalties. He wrote iirc for like 95.

I was not repping the wife..I told her exaclty what to say. We went over it until she could explain it in court. I was not there. I knew the car being new was not calibrated, I used to work for PBSO and I know with a big agency, when cars get delivered , they are many times not calibrated and documented. I saw deputies get nailed on this many times with cars with 1000s of miles, rarely does anyone use this tech, it is always radar so speed calibration is somewhat of a lost science.

It was Troop L, , based in Lantana, she had a Ford Mustang 5.0 LX ,this would have been 1990. Herp derp I am a crusty old beat cop and I know every damn thing about this shit job . Since I never saw it its all BS..What caught my attn more than that was the little nipple things on the tire, I dont know the proper name, They are like the little rubber hair things only very very new tire have. They generally wear off very fast.

Not sure where you went with this but what about getting the timestamps at the TPK tolls plazas. If you drove 150 miles at an avg of 72MPH or so it would be easier to get off saying you never sped.

Funny how your facts changed... it's your story, tell it how ever you want....

Here's a fact for you... speedometer calibrations are very much alive in LE today as speedometer information is necessary for moving radar operations as well as Speed By Pace citations.. Every six months all our patrol vehicles get certified by a company that comes to us with portable machinery capable of accomplishing this task... so your comment about it being "a lost science" is somewhat odd.

Next time, when you want to take a stab at FHP, or any other agency, at least post TRUTHFUL facts the first time around... saves on the tap-dancing later on...

ETA- My post/comments have nothing to do with herp/dero or me being old, crusty, a beat-cop, or thinking I know everything... my posts and comments are about calling out BS posts such as yours that are not true. Can't stand when someone, like YOU, posts twisted half-truths trying to make an influential point. Post some BS, I'll call you out. I expect the same from other members...

I find it hard to believe that a Trooper would pace a car at 100 mph for 3 miles before initiating a traffic stop.  Even a mile at that speed is pushing it.