User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/7/2017 8:48:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of it is "Because you suck and we hate you". 
But a lot of it is because the German government will ass-rape HK tenderly if they don't like what they're making and who they're selling it too. And having a "separate" "HK USA Inc." and factory here isn't enough to get them out from under it. And the neutered stuff they did sell here like the HK SL-8 and the UMP with the single-stack magazines wasn't just compliance with the '89 import ban, and the '94 AWB, but also with the German government at home. Places like Belgium and Israel, despite being pretty anti-gun for their own population, they're still happy to see their companies like FN and IWI making bank by selling to the US civilian market. Germany is not. Presumably it's some ultra-PC libtarded overreaction to their Nazi past. HK could come clean and be a lot more forceful in explaining to the US civilian market that Germany has them by the balls, but looking at it rationally from their perspective, there's no upside. If they do that, the American consumer may well give up on HK as a brand, deciding that "nothing cool will ever come from HK". And it would probably only make the German government mad at them at home. Imagine if they sold a $1,200 civi legal HK 416 that was used in a mass shooting. Would probably be the end of their civi rifle sales. I can understand they don't want to leave their home country, and Germany provides excellent sales as is. Germany is huge. They sold about 200K P30 and VP9 pistols to German police alone these past few years. They're the center of the EU zone. That automatically gives them huge sales potential. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2017 1:27:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I remember hearing (can't remember where) the German govt owns the Technical Data Package for HK roller lock guns, and considers them weapons of war. The Germans won't give HK their blessing to produce roller locks for civilians semi auto or not? SP89 may be sufficiently neutered to get that blessing (being in pistol form), but pretty sure everything else is LEO/military sales only.
I'd say the problem isn't HK, it's the German and US governments.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2017 8:33:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember hearing (can't remember where) the German govt owns the Technical Data Package for HK roller lock guns, and considers them weapons of war. The Germans won't give HK their blessing to produce roller locks for civilians semi auto or not? SP89 may be sufficiently neutered to get that blessing (being in pistol form), but pretty sure everything else is LEO/military sales only. I'd say the problem isn't HK, it's the German and US governments.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2017 10:20:27 PM EDT
[#4]
The better question is why can't HK make whatever the hell they want, wherever they want, and we can still buy them?
Second Amendment doesn't talk about FA, or domestic content. This isn't an HK problem.. ETA: Shoot. Beat like a dreadlocked fetish porn star. Guess I shoulda read past page one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/9/2017 12:51:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with you on every point. What I don't understand is then why HK and/or German government didn't have a problem with "licensing" (the term people who are selling MKE's use. Don't know how factual that is) MKE to make roller locks in Turkey? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/9/2017 4:30:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope they never tool up to make civilian MP5s. I've already forked out quite a bit of coin for MP5-N, MP5K-N, and HK53 conversions. It's a financial undertaking along with having to find decently priced HK donor guns and the NFA hurdle is a PITA, but as long as these guns aren't being manufactured by HK, there values won't decline. Conversion businesses like TPM, IGF, TSC, and PCS are petty much in existence because of HKs decision to relegate roller locks like the MP5 and 53 to the bone yard. Just my .02 I hope they make them, just to piss you off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/11/2017 2:48:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Sorry, the "German law on Military firearms" is a crutch.
HK sells semi auto G36 clones (HK243), MR223, etc all over the Euro civi market. Where it gets murky is that they cannot sell Military weapons to civi markets. But they can semi auto sporters. So in other words, they cannot just grab an MP5 barrel from the same bin. It has to be civi only production. And the SL8 was more influenced by German law at the time, which prevented them from selling anything that looked like a Military weapon on the German civi market. The Euro SL8 used a double stacked, modified G36 mag system, while the US market got the SL8-1 with a single stack receiver. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2017 8:47:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they don't want to sell 10,000,000 units. Every gun guy from the 1980's (myself included) would buy a $1,500 HK94 today. Let's face it, it's a 50 year-old design. When they were out, they were cheaper than Colt ARs. Now you can find 6920s for under $800 till the cows come home. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2017 8:58:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... and they hate you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because they are HK. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 1:11:45 PM EDT
[#10]
IMO Sig is the only "major player" that's even onto the fact that the mass availability 9mm carbine/SBR market is untapped, except for maybe CZ. Just my .02
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 2:14:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO Sig is the only "major player" that's even onto the fact that the mass availability 9mm carbine/SBR market is untapped, except for maybe CZ. Just my .02 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 3:25:35 PM EDT
[#12]
You're probably right. The price point of the CZ makes it more accessible than the MPX. I do think that both are a nod to the increasing demand of a MP5ish gun. The Sig is a more serious "duty" type weapon IMO. The saturated AR market should have other manufacturers looking at other non- AR platforms to bring into their fold.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 5:18:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're probably right. The price point of the CZ makes it more accessible than the MPX. I do think that both are a nod to the increasing demand of a MP5ish gun. The Sig is a more serious "duty" type weapon IMO. The saturated AR market should have other manufacturers looking at other non- AR platforms to bring into their fold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 6:08:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Yeah, SIG definitely doesn't have the LE/mil market share they once held, especially SIG Sauer Inc. (USA)
Swiss Arms still holds a respectable share though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/13/2017 7:08:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you figure that? CZ has huge market share outside the US and there are a lot of agencies in various countries using the F/A Evos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're probably right. The price point of the CZ makes it more accessible than the MPX. I do think that both are a nod to the increasing demand of a MP5ish gun. The Sig is a more serious "duty" type weapon IMO. The saturated AR market should have other manufacturers looking at other non- AR platforms to bring into their fold. If I had a chance to add another 9mm SBR to the fold, already having several mp5s, I'm definitely intrigued by B&Ts APC9 and KH9 though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2017 12:19:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't a market analysis, just my opinion. I don't own either but have handled and shot both. If I were to take a job that warranted carrying one, I'd chose the mpx, it's simply a more solid/rugged and familiar platform, since it's akin to the AR. Just my opinion. I know the CZ is very popular though. If I had a chance to add another 9mm SBR to the fold, already having several mp5s, I'm definitely intrigued by B&Ts APC9 and KH9 though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 6:49:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't they make a domestic G36 while they're at it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 8:37:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because MKE makes primarily for military and government use. They've expanded aggressively into the US market via Zenith, and thank goodness for it. I have two of their guns, and they are indeed fantastic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 9:14:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:... Presumably it's some ultra-PC libtarded overreaction to their Nazi past.
... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 10:01:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their agreements with HK about who they can or cannot sell guns to have long since expired. They've expanded aggressively into the US market via Zenith, and thank goodness for it. I have two of their guns, and they are indeed fantastic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 11:42:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Probably because it made them lots of money. Production licensing has long been a big part of HK's business model, same as many other small arms manufacturers.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 11:19:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That wasn't the original question. The question was why they were OK with the licensing in the first place. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 11:30:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Yep. In the event of war, most countries want to maintain control of their weapons production. That's actually one of the reasons HK got started in the first place. Germany wanted the FAL (G1) but Belgium refused to grant the Germans production rights, although they were happy to sell as many as Germany wished to buy. The Belgians were still (understandably) bitter about WWII, so the Germans turned to some of their displaced engineers in Spain to rework the CETME as the G2 (and subsequently G3) for adoption and production in Germany.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2017 11:51:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these deals were made in the 60's, 70's and 80's. It was (and still is) common for countries to ask that the weapons be made in-country. Iran also made HK guns under license |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2017 12:02:11 AM EDT
[#25]
You're right. The German government would likely still allow the same deal today, but they don't want HK selling "military grade" weaponry to us, even though our own country wouldn't allow it to be select-fire anyway. Different versions of the same silly rules.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2017 4:50:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're right. The German government would likely still allow the same deal today, but they don't want HK selling "military grade" weaponry to us, even though our own country wouldn't allow it to be select-fire anyway. Different versions of the same silly rules. The German Gov't has no problems with HK selling HK243s (G36 clones), MR223s, MR762s, and SP5Ks to civilian markets.. It is just that HK can't just take Military guns and major parts (barrel and bolt in Germany) and repurpose them for civii sale. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2017 9:24:36 AM EDT
[#27]
So why don't they offer them here? Why are the models different in Europe?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 11:31:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why don't they offer them here? Why are the models different in Europe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 4:21:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats the big question. HK keeps using import and export laws as a crutch. The HK 243 was approved for US sale by the German Governent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 6:23:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
922r compliance would be an issue there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats the big question. HK keeps using import and export laws as a crutch. The HK 243 was approved for US sale by the German Governent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 8:08:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it's impossible to overcome that obstacle. /sarc Then to get it to a form where people would actually buy one, they would have to come up with a supply of US manufactured 922r compliant parts, a facility to do the conversions, and do it all for less than someone can buy a MKE , Omega, or US built alternative to actually make a profit. HK had a lot invested in the US market.....and was one of the few foreign manufacturers to even attempt to fight the '89 Ban, or market a product to the US market afterwards..... All that aside, if they would import a full sized MP5"ish" pistol.......like the Z5RS, they would sell like hotcakes.... Perhaps we will see something happen when they have stateside manufacturing capabilities... My MKE runs as well as any of the HK-94's I've had in the past.....maybe I just don't get it.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 8:16:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it's impossible to overcome that obstacle. /sarc |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 9:05:18 PM EDT
[#33]
It sure isn't stopping FN, although I hear a SCAR's original import configuration is an ugly and closely-guarded secret.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 9:36:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
922r compliance would be an issue there. They are even building a factory here. Their excuses get more lame by the day
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2017 10:42:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then to get it to a form where people would actually buy one, they would have to come up with a supply of US manufactured 922r compliant parts, a facility to do the conversions, and do it all for less than someone can buy a MKE , Omega, or US built alternative to actually make a profit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, it's impossible to overcome that obstacle. /sarc |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 12:33:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only US made HK compatible parts were available... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 12:34:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sure isn't stopping FN, although I hear a SCAR's original import configuration is an ugly and closely-guarded secret. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 12:52:45 AM EDT
[#38]
I'd appreciate a link, since I couldn't find one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 12:54:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah....if made by HK USA. Otherwise it isn't HK. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 1:58:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I hope they never tool up to make civilian MP5s. I've already forked out quite a bit of coin for MP5-N, MP5K-N, and HK53 conversions. It's a financial undertaking along with having to find decently priced HK donor guns and the NFA hurdle is a PITA, but as long as these guns aren't being manufactured by HK, there values won't decline. Conversion businesses like TPM, IGF, TSC, and PCS are petty much in existence because of HKs decision to relegate roller locks like the MP5 and 53 to the bone yard. Just my .02 The premium clones as well as the Omegas and Zeniths seem to be doing just fine in the presence of the SP5K. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 8:40:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does that mean the AUG A3 is not Steyr then? They have several US parts, not made by Steyr. FN has an advantage in that they already have a huge manufacturing footprint in the US. If HK started sticking PTR, Omega, or SW parts in their guns to reach compliance the whining would be absurd. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2017 10:00:12 PM EDT
[#42]
If you are a SOT try getting post samples from HK . They just laugh at you
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/1/2017 1:42:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah....if made by HK USA. Otherwise it isn't HK. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/1/2017 8:20:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like the HK marked MP5K stock, for example. I guarantee you that if H&K imported and sold a thumb hole stocked, single stack magazine fed, version of a G36 or MP5, that people would be falling all over themselves to buy one. They would pay more for a neutered H&K than they would for a Zenith or POF, "just because it's an H&K". The additional fact that German H&K quality really is better than the alternatives certainly helps justify this mentality. Once the rifles are here "in-country", after awhile our aftermarket manufacturers would step up and deliver the parts and services needed to make the rifles look "proper", for those people who want to "alter their H&K" to look more like the military/LE version. That wouldn't be everyone, that's for sure. Some people inexplicably just LOVE the look of the SL8 rifle. The aftermarket parts wouldn't be as good as parts made in a German factory, but they would work and be "good enough". The main point is that H&K would have no problem selling lots of these "sporters" in the U.S.A., they could keep the appearance of being P.C. to appease nosy liberals and they would make a lot of money in the process. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
