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Posted: 7/8/2015 8:50:15 PM EDT
[#1]
If it was me and I HAD to buy one off the shelf I would pay $175 more, and buy an Atlantic Arms at the least. Not a fan of MKEs blocks in the receiver, etc. That is why I dont own one. Rather have one that is compatible with all types of magazines and carriers. Not saying they dont run, or run well, I just prefer it be as close to original as possible.
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:28:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I am completely new to HK firearms so you will need to help me a bit here. Is the Zenith not compatible with all regular HK spec MP5 parts and mags? I will never buy an auto sear so that capability does not concern me. I really want a good quality shooter, not so much into making it a perfect HK clone.
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Posted: 7/8/2015 10:06:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am completely new to HK firearms so you will need to help me a bit here. Is the Zenith not compatible with all regular HK spec MP5 parts and mags? I will never buy an auto sear so that capability does not concern me. I really want a good quality shooter, not so much into making it a perfect HK clone. Based on your statements, the Zenith is for you. compatible with HK mp5 parts. You can always make it auto sear ready if you choose to do so later on, but it will take some work. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 10:09:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I *believe* the MKE and/or the POF guns have special "blocks" at the rear of the receiver, as well as in the magwell, that prevent using some types of HK parts. I have never used an MKE or POF so I cant comment on shooting. What I do know is sometimes you have to swap parts to get clones running 100%. But you will find that out as you go, as each and every gun is different.
here is a post on HKPro about Zenith guns. Look at #26. List of design changes. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 1:07:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Only the "rifles" have the mag block pin. It can be ground away (when legal). The other block in the receiver prevents any bolt carrier with a full-auto trip from going in. An HK MP5 carrier would fit fine if you milled off its auto trip. Other than select-fire parts, every HK part and accessory should mount perfectly. You can (as an added bonus & same as POF-5) use any factory 2-pin trigger housing you find, and the mil-spec 2-pin housings are far more common. (They also cannot fall off the receiver as you remove the butt stock. Convenient.) Zenith wisely went with 1/2-28 muzzle threads due to being more popular in America for 9mm suppressors. Really good calls all around (except the "RS" naming convention
 ). Great QC. I just sold my older ATI-imported MKE to finance a Zenith MKE. I fully expect it to be 100% reliable, like my old one. I haven't heard of any that are not. Zenith all the way.  20% LE discount too (factory direct).
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Posted: 7/9/2015 1:17:02 AM EDT
[#6]
So is the deal then, that because of the swing-down lower, you have to leave the block in the rear of the receiver to prevent a full-auto carrier from going in?
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Posted: 7/9/2015 2:21:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Precisely, according to current ATF import policy.
ATF has stated (in multiple letters) that one can weld an "old school" semi shelf onto the receiver, and then remove the carrier block (if you want to make it a sear host). There were also some guys on Hkpro who devised auto carriers with spring-loaded trips to bypass the block, which as far as I know would be fine also. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 10:01:48 AM EDT
[#8]
I just got the Z-5RS and it looks very nice. Unless you want to get an auto-sear and go full-auto, this is the pistol to get. Push pin lowers slide right on with little to no fitting. All mags work. One can get the full MP5 look (when SBRed) without having to clip and pin the lower. The only real issue with these is the receiver auto carrier block and if you are not going full auto then it is no issue at all. Watch prices as I did not buy until they started being advertized at MAP.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 12:25:38 PM EDT
[#9]
For my $0.02 worth, I would buy the US made clone over the Southern Asian clone. So many buyers are caught up in the price. But that is why so little is made here in the US. So in another generation or two, Americans will either be an IT specialist or work at Mc Donald's. Whenever I can, I try to buy US made. Yes, I pay more, but I am supporting workers and their families right here rather than support foreign Governments, workers and their families half way around the world. US workers are your friends and neighbors. I'm sure we would all love to buy HK made roller locked guns. US and German law makes it very hard to make the guns over there and ship them here But the German Government makes it next to impossible to move jobs overseas. So HK won't be moving the jobs here. Why because they are trying to take care of their own.
OP, this is going to be a SBR. There is 922(R). You'll spend more money in US parts to be compliant. Or buy a US clone and not have to worry about it. Your money, your your gun. Buy what you want. IMHO money is resources. The more money sent overseas, the less resources are here in the US. Will one firearm purchase make a big difference? No, but just like voting, everyone transaction counts, so there is that much less here. YMMV. Scott |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 1:13:05 PM EDT
[#10]
I see where you are coming from on US made stuff. I still have been looking at the last of the DJ Getz builds at atlantic but of course I hear he is stopping production. Does simplify 922r to have US made gun. I am also always a little hesitant on trust my suppressors to foreign made barrel thread alignment and 3 lugs, not sure if that is a legitimate concern or not. My other option would be to save up for a DJ Getz build before they are gone.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#11]
I have both Zenith/MKE and Getz guns and recommend either of them without any reservation.
The 922/SBR considerations and "what if I buy a $30,000 sear" question are pretty much what has to be wrestled with, along with cost, which brings in the extra stuff you get with the MKE. There are other great options too but I don't have direct experience to comment on them. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 9:46:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have both Zenith/MKE and Getz guns and recommend either of them without any reservation. The 922/SBR considerations and "what if I buy a $30,000 sear" question are pretty much what has to be wrestled with, along with cost, which brings in the extra stuff you get with the MKE. There are other great options too but I don't have direct experience to comment on them. If you have $30,000 to buy a sear then I would hope that you'd have enough money to cover the cost of another host gun without breaking a sweat. 
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Posted: 7/10/2015 9:24:47 AM EDT
[#13]
LOL - of course.
We see people ask questions about MP5 guns where they are sweating $150-200 of price difference over four pages and then ask: "but... but... is this sear-ready?" 
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Posted: 7/11/2015 12:49:55 PM EDT
[#14]
at this point sear ready is just a full auto bolt. and most guns come with that.
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Posted: 7/11/2015 12:51:53 PM EDT
[#15]
never dealt with those brands or ''carrier blocks'' never heard of that
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Posted: 7/11/2015 2:34:11 PM EDT
[#16]
We have quite a few MP5's being used on our full-auto range to include HK, AA, MKE, POF, Special Weapons and Coharie. To say that POF or MKE are of a lesser quality than the US-produced models is NOT what we experience. We've had more US-made bolt carriers crack than the others but the locking pieces and firing pins all last about the same amount of use/time.
We have HK's (and licensed POF/MKE's) with several hundred thousand rounds that need nothing more than barrel swaps when we can no longer get the proper bolt gap with over-sized rollers. This goes for the MKE's and POF's as well. The US-made receivers have cracked along the pinched area along the trunion where they are TIG welded from the factory. Also, the barrels last MUCH longer on the HK-licensed models. If you are going to purchase one, US-made or not, stock up on extractor springs. Also, make sure to order the G3/.308 type because in OUR experience, they last longer. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 3:28:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Could you post a link to the type of extractor springs you say are best for semis like the MKE Z-5RS?
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Posted: 7/11/2015 3:40:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could you post a link to the type of extractor springs you say are best for semis like the MKE Z-5RS? Here you go... http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-Rifle-Extractor-Spring-Rifle-HK-Contract-FMP-113p16248.htm V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 7:01:12 PM EDT
[#19]
how many rounds does it take to start having bolt gap issues ?
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Posted: 7/11/2015 9:40:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how many rounds does it take to start having bolt gap issues ? Tens of thousands of rounds for use before any issues. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 10:13:36 PM EDT
[#21]
thats good news, thanks
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Posted: 7/12/2015 10:02:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Thanks for all the input and thanks again for the high round experience, been following your AR thread. I gotta make out it to Battlefield Las Vegas next time I'm out there. I have shot a few MP5 on full auto with some friends on the local SWAT team. Ever since then I have be lusting after one.
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Posted: 7/13/2015 8:38:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote History..... I have be lusting after one. Welcome. The line starts waaaay back there. 
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Posted: 7/13/2015 9:22:19 AM EDT
[#24]
 My experience with my Z-5RS mirrors that of the review above. Excellent weapons. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 9:38:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have $30,000 to buy a sear then I would hope that you'd have enough money to cover the cost of another host gun without breaking a sweat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have both Zenith/MKE and Getz guns and recommend either of them without any reservation. The 922/SBR considerations and "what if I buy a $30,000 sear" question are pretty much what has to be wrestled with, along with cost, which brings in the extra stuff you get with the MKE. There are other great options too but I don't have direct experience to comment on them. If you have $30,000 to buy a sear then I would hope that you'd have enough money to cover the cost of another host gun without breaking a sweat. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 10:12:57 AM EDT
[#26]
It can be set up for sear use, but it doesn't arrive out of the box that way.
Anyone who has laid down $30,000+ for a sear won't be worried about that. If you do not own a registered sear this is of absolutely zero concern. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 12:21:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Sears haven't always been $30,000. And rich people are some of the cheapest b******* on the planet.
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Posted: 7/15/2015 9:18:37 PM EDT
[#28]
I run a can on mine but it sports a German 3 lug barrel and it's been modded for my FA pack. To be honest at this point about the only original MKE parts are the receiver & trunnion.
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Posted: 7/16/2015 12:10:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But what if your reselling it? There are a substantial amount lf sear owners out there and they need hosts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have both Zenith/MKE and Getz guns and recommend either of them without any reservation. The 922/SBR considerations and "what if I buy a $30,000 sear" question are pretty much what has to be wrestled with, along with cost, which brings in the extra stuff you get with the MKE. There are other great options too but I don't have direct experience to comment on them. If you have $30,000 to buy a sear then I would hope that you'd have enough money to cover the cost of another host gun without breaking a sweat. Why would you buy a gun to resell it? |
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Posted: 7/16/2015 12:22:56 AM EDT
[#30]
What does 922r have to do with any of this? Its a violation at making, not possession. Been beaten to death. Also- show me someone who's been charged with it.
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Posted: 7/16/2015 10:48:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does 922r have to do with any of this? Its a violation at making, not possession. Been beaten to death. Also- show me someone who's been charged with it. In respect to converting an SBR from an imported, foreign made MP5 pistol, 922(r) puts the onus of the "maker", which in the case of an SBR is the person who filed the Form 1 and did the conversion, not the original importer of the pistol configured MP5. That's the point of engraving an SBR with trust info, to ID the person who made that NFA registered SBR. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 1:06:59 AM EDT
[#32]
I get that. I mean, what does 922r have to do with OP's question.
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Posted: 7/17/2015 8:00:57 AM EDT
[#33]
What would be the best quality and cheapest way to 922r SBR a Z-5RS?
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Posted: 7/17/2015 8:38:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would be the best quality and cheapest way to 922r SBR a Z-5RS? Go to HKParts.com. Click on the MP5 section. A sub-menu will be listed on the left side of that page, listing ATF requirements for 922(r). It also lists the parts (6 domestic made required) to bring an imported/foreign made MP5 in to compliance. Not all that tough when you consider the handguard, stock, charging handle, magazine body, floor plate and follower are all on the list. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 1:07:12 AM EDT
[#35]
LOL.... i hate cheap fks !
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sears haven't always been $30,000. And rich people are some of the cheapest b******* on the planet. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:01:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go to HKParts.com. Click on the MP5 section. A sub-menu will be listed on the left side of that page, listing ATF requirements for 922(r). It also lists the parts (6 domestic made required) to bring an imported/foreign made MP5 in to compliance. Not all that tough when you consider the handguard, stock, charging handle, magazine body, floor plate and follower are all on the list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would be the best quality and cheapest way to 922r SBR a Z-5RS? Go to HKParts.com. Click on the MP5 section. A sub-menu will be listed on the left side of that page, listing ATF requirements for 922(r). It also lists the parts (6 domestic made required) to bring an imported/foreign made MP5 in to compliance. Not all that tough when you consider the handguard, stock, charging handle, magazine body, floor plate and follower are all on the list. I think you wanted hkparts.net. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:55:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Just bought one myself. The cosmetics are pretty good. If it shoots as good as it looks I'll be happy.
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:17:38 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go to HKParts.com. Click on the MP5 section. A sub-menu will be listed on the left side of that page, listing ATF requirements for 922(r). It also lists the parts (6 domestic made required) to bring an imported/foreign made MP5 in to compliance. Not all that tough when you consider the handguard, stock, charging handle, magazine body, floor plate and follower are all on the list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would be the best quality and cheapest way to 922r SBR a Z-5RS? Go to HKParts.com. Click on the MP5 section. A sub-menu will be listed on the left side of that page, listing ATF requirements for 922(r). It also lists the parts (6 domestic made required) to bring an imported/foreign made MP5 in to compliance. Not all that tough when you consider the handguard, stock, charging handle, magazine body, floor plate and follower are all on the list. OK, please forgive my stupidity and echoing what I believe to be reading this correctly 1. If I purchased a Zenith Z-5K (MP5K) and wanted to add a US made Choate stock and US made vertical grip, I would still need to replace 4 additional parts on the original weapon with US made parts for ATF to accept is as an SBR? 2. If so, does that mean the 3 mags it comes with can't legally be used? 3. Could 2 US-made mags be considered 6 parts? Yikes and thanks in advance for the info. 922(r) Compliant Parts The ATF has identified 12 countable parts on the MP5. 6 total US parts are needed for 9mm MP5 builds. Receiver Barrel Trunion Bolt Bolt Carrier >Cocking Handle Trigger Housing Trigger Hammer Sear >Buttstock Pistol Grip >Forearm / Handguard Magazine Housing Magazine Follower Magazine Floorplate |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:14:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK, please forgive my stupidity and echoing what I believe to be reading this correctly 1. If I purchased a Zenith Z-5K (MP5K) and wanted to add a US made Choate stock and US made vertical grip, I would still need to replace 4 additional parts on the original weapon with US made parts for ATF to accept is as an SBR? 2. If so, does that mean the 3 mags it comes with can't legally be used? 3. Could 2 US-made mags be considered 6 parts? Yikes and thanks in advance for the info. 922(r) Compliant Parts The ATF has identified 12 countable parts on the MP5. 6 total US parts are needed for 9mm MP5 builds. Receiver Barrel Trunion Bolt Bolt Carrier >Cocking Handle Trigger Housing Trigger Hammer Sear >Buttstock Pistol Grip >Forearm / Handguard Magazine Housing Magazine Follower Magazine Floorplate 1. ATF will approve your Form 1, without consideration of what parts are installed, (planned to be installed), or where they're made. The only thing they can immediately take notice of is whether the make, model, and length info you supplied on the form appear to be accurate. (Also other obvious stuff like whether you live in a prohibited location, are a prohibited person, failed to fill out the form correctly, used an obviously invalid trust, etc.) They don't "accept" an SBR; they merely approve it. Just the fact that they approve something doesn't necessarily mean it's legal, and just because something's legal doesn't necessarily mean it will be approved. If they list you as the registrant of a SBR in the NFTR, then you won't be federally indicted for possessing said SBR (solely for it being a SBR, anyway) within your state (or when travelling with an approved 5320.20 form). That's all your $200 tax buys you. ATF has changed their opinion several times regarding 922(r) and it's applicability to SBRs. There is some stuff floating around if you search, but I believe their current opinion is that SBRs do have to be in compliance with 922(r), the reason being they are rifles and they are assembled from imported parts. Another (also current) conflicting opinion is that all SBR's are non-sporting regardless of where the parts are made. That's the reason SBRs cannot be imported in the first place, because they are NFA weapons. 992(r) issues are always confusing, and almost always result in a constant debate by anyone who cares. Most people (and agencies) don't care. One thing that's certain is that possession of a non-compliant firearm under 922(r) is not a crime. The only crime is to assemble one that way. This is one of the reasons it's never enforced, except as an add-on charge in federal cases. 2. Those 3 mags are made entirely of imported parts, and as such would count against you during assembly. However, ATF has stated previously that a 922(r) compliant firearm may be assembled with US magazine parts counted towards the domestic parts count. ATF does not consider swapping mags, or disassmebling and reassmbling the firearm for routine maintenance to be "assembly". Therefore, once it has been "assembled" in compliance with 922(r), you can use any mag you want. 3. No. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 2:31:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Thanks for the info, Kit!
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Posted: 8/4/2015 10:19:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Well after watching that heavenly video I need one of these. And a Form 1. And a 9mm can.
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Posted: 8/5/2015 2:07:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Just realized these have the "SEF lower" with the thumb groove. I am left handed. Would that be an issue since the grip is molded for a right-handed shooter?
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Posted: 8/5/2015 4:01:47 PM EDT
[#43]
geddyfan, you're quite welcome.
ViktorVaughn, you would probably find it uncomfortable. A semi-auto ambi grip frame could be installed without much effort though. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 4:24:37 PM EDT
[#44]
The SEF contoured grip isn't bad for a lefty, but not ideal either. You can buy the HK SEF Navy grip frame and the MKE trigger pack should drop right in and reuse the selector
You don't need a clipped and pinned frame since the MKE uses the front pin. Navy style |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 7:44:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Thanks Kitbuilder and Kletzenklueffer!
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Posted: 8/12/2015 10:17:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But what if your reselling it? There are a substantial amount lf sear owners out there and they need hosts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have both Zenith/MKE and Getz guns and recommend either of them without any reservation. The 922/SBR considerations and "what if I buy a $30,000 sear" question are pretty much what has to be wrestled with, along with cost, which brings in the extra stuff you get with the MKE. There are other great options too but I don't have direct experience to comment on them. If you have $30,000 to buy a sear then I would hope that you'd have enough money to cover the cost of another host gun without breaking a sweat. I don't sell guns. I buy them. Really though, I don't currently have a sear and I'm pretty comfortable saying I never will. I think a lot of people are unrealistic about this. Should I manage to afford one in the future, I'm pretty sure another $1800 clone will be of the least concern. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 7:43:07 AM EDT
[#47]
Well to revive this thread with an update Im ordering a MKE this week. I am eventually going to get a K and a fullsize just deciding on which one get and SBR first. Has anybody run one of theses with a 3 lug suppressor yet. I have read on other forums that some people had a little trouble with 3 lug initially because its painted and the extra thickness of the paint makes it hard to fit some adapters until it wears off or is removed.
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Posted: 8/21/2015 9:35:19 AM EDT
[#48]
The paint was double thick on the K's only. The fullsize is/was fine. No issues with the 3 lug
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Posted: 8/21/2015 11:37:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Do you have one? did you remove some paint yourself?
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Posted: 8/21/2015 3:00:35 PM EDT
[#50]
No paint issues here.
PM sent |
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