Been doing my research sorta on clone builders.

I see there are DJF, PCS/Ghilly, and Dakota Tactical (loooong wait)...

Now I don't know much about the differences between them or what each offers...

Is it better to buy what I want from them, or send say a german parts kit to one of the builders?

Which method makes most sense?

Thanks!

I bought a Turner Fabrications pistol and added the stock after the form 1 was approved.

Buy what you want.

Atlantics guns are getting good reviews too.

F Kit (not my ad) $1950

Or

Complete rifle (AA Firearms) $1950

So no pros/cons to each???

Are you buying it as a blaster or as an investment that you plan to resell at some point in the future?

If the first, but whatever is cheapest that has a decent reputation.

If the second, you shouldn't be looking at clones.

Pretty much.


Pros for pre built clones? Less expensive, 922r met, accepts HK parts, good quality.
Cons? More likely to have Out of the Box issues. US made parts.

Pros for custom clones?  Higher quality. More attention to detail. Less likely to have out of the box issues.
Cons? More expensive. Generally sear ready (assuming you have that option)

I had Ghilliebear build me an MP5 and MP5KN. Currently pistols but stamps should be here any day now....at least I hope. I liked that I knew exactly what was going into them and had them made exactly how I wanted them. Not cheap overall but I was able to gradually collect all the parts, so it wasn't a single huge financial hit, and he works fast.

I can also vouch for Ghillebear.

Thanks guys!

I just want a well running shooter. I don't plan on selling it.

Quality is still important, but obviously I can't afford a real one...soo...

I bought a POF MP5. Great gun. Comes with 3 lug threaded barrel and push pin lower.

I have a Vector MP5/40 clone SBR that has been mechanically solid for years, but the finish is more or less barbecue pit paint.

I have owned two Coharie clones, both 89K's. One was a mess and the other, after extensive parts swapping finally was working well.

As I understand it the current crop of clones is better than the Toad Bailey clones that dominated the market years ago. I rarely hear anything bad about the POFs, the MKE's or the Atlantic Firearms AA series. I also hear that DJ Getz makes a pretty tight shooter that is priced kind of in the middle between the POF/AA lines and the more boutique Ghilliebear / Dakota builds.

As for buy or build I think it comes down to your intent. As others have said, do you want a museum piece or a blaster?

Do you mean a clipped and pinned lower?

I was under the impression that legit push pin lowers were verboten due to ease of conversion?

POF have a pushpin lower. It uses some different blocks to prevent FA usage.


HKPro post

Interesting... however it looks like it still has the shelf, plus it is not sear ready.

So that pin hole comes with a price and is mostly just for show.

Everything is a compromise. The pin hole is the original design. The FA blocks aren't.  Making it sear ready wouldn't be hard, but I'm pretty sure it would be a felony so I don't suggest doing it.

Considering that more or less every other clone on the market is sear ready but C&P it seems the POF has the pin hole as a mark AGAINST it rather than for it.

Then again every sear gun I've seen is a C&P. Having an unblocked pin hole and sear ready would not add much to the party.

Supposedly the new MKE will be the same way.

 

Every clone I've seen (sans the Lusa extra short bus retard clones) has been compatible with real HK parts. Even the old Todd Bailey guns were, as they usually required you to replace his parts with HK parts to get them running.

MP5's are all about how well they are put together and if the person doing the build actually knows their shit. The Bailey guns were infamous for being out of spec, being warped or welded bad and parts not fitting well and being ground on from the factory for a "force fit". My Vector V94 (MP5/40 clone) was built by Vector using Bailey sourced US parts and it is pretty tight. Every HK part I've put on it has worked perfectly.

A big reason the boutique builders like Dakota, Ghillebear and DJ Getz are so popular is because you are buying their expertise.

I don't really consider not being sear ready as a knock against the POF/MKE versions, how many people out there have a registered sear, or can afford one? Not many.....

Most people I know with them own registered sears, and the first thing they ask is "is it sear ready and does it have a full auto carrier". Then again I personally know two people with MP5 clones... myself and my friend (who is a SOT and has a registered sear). Those are also the prime two selling points most clones tout (sear ready and auto carrier). They know their market, and a large section of it is as sear hosts... hell, if you look at Atlantic's sale page they have whole sections of their demo videos dedicated to sear compatibility.

I'm mostly bringing it up as a talking point for discussion rather than an actual "knock" against the guns. Some folks (like myself) hope to one day own an HK registered sear and knowing my clones are GTG right out of the gate is a head nodder.

My MP5 Clone is made by Turner Fabrications...



Built on a full German MP5 parts kit, bolt code IG; sear ready and tested with a sear pack.

DJ Getz and Ghilliebear (Parabellum Combat Systems) are top builders as well.

What I am looking for is a great shooter with quality built parts. I don't want a cheap, get me by clone. I want something that is worth my time.

I am not looking to have a collector piece that you hang on the wall and go "goo goo ga ga" over.

I want a well functioning quality firearm.

Then it sounds to me like you want to look up DJ Getz.

From looking around on HK pro, seems like he makes some good stuff.

I eventually would like to SBR the clone as well.

 

Ghille built me a 93 clone off of an Apex kit and some RCM parts.  It shoots very very well RCM barrel.  Turner but me a 10mm mp5 clone off a SW parts kit, RCM bolt and a genuine new HK barrel.  It runs flawless.  I would have either build me another.  Just to be fair I also have a SW 9mm and after replacing the bolt, spring and extractor with RCM parts it runs fine.  Your mileage may very.

no. He has a vendor board on HKPro and good companies like AA sell his product (he direct sales too).

One thing I'll add about my MP5 built by Ghillebear, the finish and welds were on par with HK if not better. It is sear ready though I doubt I'll ever have or spend money for one. I sent a Form 1 on it and eight months later added a stock when the stamp arrived. It was built on a German MP5 parts kit and has the compliance parts, I went a little further and bought only HK 30 round curved mags for it. I'm very happy with it.

While I have never purchased a parts kit gun from one of the reputable builders (I have seen some work by some and it is excellent), I do own an original HK 94, an MKE 94, and a Special Weapons clone.  I have previously owned a Coharie MP5K pistol clone as well.  I also just (around an hour ago) ordered a POF-5 from Atlantic.  Since I have see most manner of HK MP-5 variant up close, I would opt for either an original HK or a factory built gun over a domestic clone. Here is what I have noticed:

The fit and function of a factory gun tends to be better than a 'clone' (the factory guns from MKE and POF are not clones, but licensed by HK, engineered by HK, in factories installed by HK and run for a while under HK supervision) and this is paramount since you want something reliable as making something unreliable become reliable isn't easy or cheap.  If you want a shooter, go with a factory gun.

Original HK:  The gold standard.  Basically reliable out of the box and has never had any issues except for some normal wear on parts.  When I shot out the barrel, it was replaced with a standard short HK barrel and SBR'd.  I rarely get to shoot it anymore since I "lost" it to my dad in a poker game five years ago.  By lost, I mean lost use since it is in a family NFA trust anyway.  I still say I know he was cheating, but that is a different story.  He uses it as a registered sear host and shoots it weekly  (I had previously won said sear from him and he never was happy about it since he thought I rigged the bet to assure winning).

The clones:  The Coharie clone was never reliable and I got rid of it very quickly.  An inspection by someone who knew what they were doing revealed a warped receiver, which bound the carrier, so it was never going to work right.  Coharie never responded over their "lifetime warranty" (I didn't really press it since I didn't have the time due to work), so the receiver was cut in a couple of pieces and it was sold as a parts kit to a friend who wanted to build his own clone from parts.  Poor QC made for  a gun with constant problems and never reliable.  The Special Weapons clone has been reliable after replacing nearly everything except the receiver and trunnion with HK parts.  I had access to parts very cheap for a while from a friend's agency that dumped their MP-5s in favor of short ARs and my former neighbor was a HK trained armorer, so it wasn't a big problem to do.  If I had to pay retail for both parts and labor, it would have been horrible (around $1500 in German parts since nearly everything was replaced).  This gun resides in my California house and gets shot when I am there since it is legally configured for CA law (featureless build with 16" barrel, A2 stock, and normal mags from back in the 80's).  Now a lot of people knock Todd Bailey, but if you look at it from the perspective of trying to do all the things HK does in a large factory with large machinery and a big budget - his modest efforts are commendable.  If you look at any clone as a "cottage" industry where you are paying for craftsmanship or customization, that should be a fair proposition and would place them much higher in cost than a factory gun.  The problem is the pricing of many "factory" ( or more appropriately garage/shed) clones on the cheap doesn't encourage "craftsmanship" (I realize some builders do price accordingly and do good work now.)  The other issue is parts quality where if you go with all German, you are looking at more than an original HK gun sold for when available.  Some of the domestic pattern parts have been pretty dodgy and poor fitting or poorly made (like no heat treat on extractors or lower grade materials, etc.) but RCM parts are pretty flawless for what they make.

Factory guns:  The MKE has been boringly reliable.  Granted, I had to do a little work on the mag blocks but that took all of 20 minutes and a little refinish work.  Original HK parts fit perfectly and MKE parts fit perfectly in my HK.  I haven't gone the SBR route with it yet, but will pretty soon.  I don't know firsthand about my new POF yet, but I have seen POF made guns overseas and know how well they are put together.  I also know POF spare parts fit HK and MKE guns perfectly.  I have every bit of confidence that the POF gun I just ordered will be as well made as my MKE and also as reliable.

If I were in the OP's shoes, I would just order the POF from Atlantic.  Spend less money, less time fiddling, and more time shooting.  As of an hour ago, they had some in stock here: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/9mm-pistol-detail.html?Itemid=0.  Micro scale manufacturing can't compete against proper factories for something decent for the price.  $1500 sure is a good price for a factory gun.  YMMV...

I strongly agree with interfan. The POF is your best bet/buy.
Buy a POF. They will sell out within hours from Atlantic firearms. I am in no way connected to Atlantic. I am just a HUGE POF MP5 fan and I own several POF MP5s. These POFs run perfect and do not jam.

I've only owned  coharies and vectors.  The ones that didn't run right, went to ghilliebear and they were up and running in no time.  In today's market, any of the POF, AA, DJF or ghilliebear builds should be great!!

Thanks guys. Time to make a decision!

SandWMandP15Tee...
So you started with a pistol?

How much did the build cost?

Love the Die Hard reference lol.

Glad you bought a POF MP5 Sheepdog324 as they are now SOLD OUT....again.

HKParts has all the stuff in a kit to SB15 a MP5 pistol. Endcap, plate, buffer tube, brace. Works well.

Die Hard is responsible for a lot of MP5 clone sales, me included.  

Who did you have do the engraving for the form 1?

Here's are a couple of stupid question about the AA POF MP5's.

A local engraver, didn't feel like going through the hassle, wait or fear of shipping it out. Called him up, took it to him and came home.

 

The only difference between the real HK MP5 and the POF MP5 I can tell are:

1.Semi auto carrier
2.Very small welded flange inside the receiver to prevent use of full auto carrier. Very small weld bead.
3. Paint does not seem to be fully baked on. One owner (after removing all the plastic) baked his POF in his oven on 350 degrees for 1 1/2 hours. Afterwards the paint looked jut like a factory HK.

 

In stock, I just put one on lay a way

Not in stock anymore.

Glad I made it in time, I was debating on whether or not to wait for the MKE version.