I've been attracted to the FAL for years but never bought one. Last weekend, I took a Century-based FAL-type Frankengun in on trade at my pawnshop. I'm in it fairly cheap and figured now was a perfect time to learn more about the FAL platform. I took the gun to the range this weekend to try it out. I loaded up a mag, pulled the trigger and the gun went bang. Pulled the trigger again and it went "click." Turns out the bolt was riding over the rounds and pushing the back of the magazine down. If I pushed up on the bottom of the magazine the gun would feed rounds and I was able to make it most of the way through a mag.

I've been doing a bunch of reading at the FAL Files site and I've learned a bunch of stuff. Most notably:
• My gun is "INCH." It has an inch mag catch slot, a folding charge handle, an Inch-type grip, an inch type stock (an "AD" serial number leaves me to believe the lower is Australian).
• The two mags that came with the gun are METRIC. The gun failed to cycle with either mag unless I pushed up on the mag.
• The feed ramp is of the "unibrow" type.
• Everybody hates Century (I already knew that). My upper receiver is marked "Century R1A1/Made in USA"
• Based on what the seller told me (and some spare trigger parts that came with the gun) I'm thinking this was not a Century build per se, but perhaps somebody else built it (or had it built) on a Century receiver.
• I need to have this thing checked for headspace, though I saw no indication of problems when I shot it. The brass looked fine.

One other small detail: the cheap plastic furniture is RED. I mean cherry tomato red . . . red forearm, red grip, red butt . . . even the carry handle and charging handle are painted red. The forearm and butt are red through and through, molded red plastic, not paint. Clearly, some things are going to have to change.

ASSUMING the inch-type thermomold magazines I ordered work and the gun runs with those mags, is this something I even want to mess with? Can a Century gun ever satisfy? More importantly, why would I want to head down the rat hole of FAL knowledge when modern AR-type rifles are so cheap and available? If this is always going to be some sort of bastard mixmaster, what's the point?

Part of me says get this bitch running and sell it. The other voice says now is my chance to have a .308 battle rifle (I own an M1 Garand, btw).

Oh, FAL fans of ARFcom, tell me why this Century R1A1 thing is worth pursuing. Sell me on taking on this project.

I had an R1A1. It was ok except the feed ramps were done wrong, and it was unreliable for me.
Sold it and got a DSA SA58 which is great. Ditch the Century, or send it out to have it rebuilt on a Coonan receiver.

I like the FAL because of the gas piston, and adjustable gas setting. On high gas it will chop wood.

FAL's and cheap no longer go together. Parts and acessories are climbing in price.  Century guns are a crapshoot and should be avoided if you don't want to fix some issues. I have an early century L1a1 with and Argentine receiver. The gunmonkeys at Century  literally destroyed the wrench flats on the bbl. I still need to try to find a similar vintage take barrel off and replace it. The headspace also may be a bit loose.  If it weren't for the low price and quality receiver, I would have passed.

My two other FAL's(one DSA STG and a custom build IMBEL) have been 100% from day one and are a pleasure to shoot.

It sounds like you got the worst of all cases having a Century rifle with their receiver. Either unload it or send it to a reputable smith to fix. Rich Saunders of Century Gun Works in NV does awesome work.

My Century Fal has been 100% reliable and has the single feed ramp receiver.  I did have to open the mouth of the chamber to stop flattened tips of the bullets but that was not the receivers fault but a FAL fault.

FAL's are a fine rifle and more durrable than about any rifle you put them against.  Once they are made reliable they are 100% reliable and stay that way.  Drop them from a moving car on the highway,  throw them off a roof and pick them up and fire away.  They are also quite accurate with a little work.

I'll trade you a Polish P64 w/2 mags and a Silver American Eagle for it.

FAL's IMHO are really a niche type rifle. Some like them, some don't. Those that do will do what they have to in order to make them work. If you don't like it and don't want to hassle with it, I'd say cut your losses and move on.

Well, that's the thing . . . I do like them.

I got in my Thermold mags yesterday and just running some dummy rounds through by hand, the gun cycled fine. I look forward to getting it out to the range again this weekend and seeing if it will work. The gun actually appears to be pretty solidly assembled. I don't see any obvious areas of concern. The parts are all in nice shape, albeit refinished.

BTW, I don't see anyway I can have any "losses" with this one. I'm not in it very deep.

Never mind

Century receivers and Thermold mags are probably the two greatest problem parts.

On a home-build or Century build there can be a plethora of problems, and without the right tools and knowledge you may well never get it fixed.

It appears that you do not have too little headspace, but you should definitely check if it has too much.  Often Century and Joe Home built these with whatever LS they came with.

The next big problem is that if the barrel is not perfectly timed it will shoot way off.

The FAL has some features AR10s do not- piston, adjustable gas (meaning smooth shooting), easier to disassemble.   They are fine shooting rifles, though the sights are not as good as the AR10.  I believe they are more robust.

Bolt does not close on my .308 No-go gauge. It does close on a go gauge.

When I shot it last weekend, I was shooting at 50 yards. The shots were centered on the target but several inches high.



Honestly, I've never even been tempted by a .308 AR. The comparison to the AR was more rhetorical than anything. I own 5.56 ARs and like them, but the .308s do nothing for me. So far my battle rifle urge has been satisfied by my M1 Garand, but I've always been drawn to the FAL.

That is because it was the right arm of the free world!

Your L1A1 may be very easy to make reliable. First, buy a couple surplus mags. Some century "unibrows" work fine, some need work.
You can find nice Marynal L1A1 stocks easily enough to dress her properly.
You can probably trade those Metric mags for inch ones if you try on the files. The FAL's and L1A1's are some of my favorite rifles.

I sold my FAL to get an AR10.  Seemed like whenever I tried a different magazine or different ammo I had to fiddle with the gas system to get it to work right, this was a DSA factory gun I got new.

So ditch the FAL for an AR10.

With a cheap .308 AR, you just don't feel as much like a mercenary as when you're holding a 17" Para with an authentic Rhodesian folder.



Maybe that's not a good reason though.

Yep. There is a bit of history with an FAL that the whole .308 AR world lacks.

I looked, circa 2005 time frame, for a .308 rifle.

Choices were AR10, FAL, HK91, or M1A.

I'd owned a HK91 about 10 years before - didn't like it.  Terrible trigger, poor sights for me, kicked like a mule - worse that a Remington 700.  How, I have no idea, but it did.  So no go there.

Never been a fan of the M1A.  At that time, they were the long model, as the shorter Scout model had not yet come out.  I'd read they were a bit finicky, and accurate was the gaument of terrible/MOA depending on how much work they'd had done to them.

For your question about the AR10/FAL, AR10's have always just been too big and clunky for me.  Maybe I spent too much time lugging an AR15 around in the Army, but that feels like the correct size and weight and balance for an AR.  The upsized AR10 just felt too big - like a 10 year old sitting at the child's table at Thanksgiving dinner.

In 2005, the AR craze had not yet fully hit, so the AR10s were much more manufacure specific, and did not have all the interchanablity they do now.

So, I went with the FAL.  And love mine. I have DS Arms FAL, and it shoots wonderfuly.  Never has jammed, works great with any ammo I throw at it, and shoots 1.5 inch groups with a scope and Federal 150 gr Noser BT's.

Since then, I've read about people having issues with DS Arms, so they may have suffered the curse many business do - they got successful, grew, and the same processes and procedures for a small outfit didn't translate to a larger company, so quality plumits.

All that said, I'd not trade my FAL for any .308 rifle.  It's accurate, super reliable, has a great gas piston system, and is a nice addition to any collection.

If things get really, really ugly, it's the rifle in the safe I'm reaching for.

AR10 is more accurate and current models have pistons and are very reliable.
FAL is very reliable and accurate enough. Para FAL is also shorter because you can get a collapsing and folding stock for it. Also the AR10s these days have proprietary parts
If you want a compact SBR in 308 go for the DSA OSW (2ft long and 30rds 308) and it will get you out toe  5 to 600 yards maybe more

How do different magazines affect the gas setting/system?
The benefit of the adjustable gas system is so you can tailor your rifle to ammo of different power to minimize recoil and extend the service life of the components and the shooter. I had an HK91 for a number of years. You cannot adjust the gas and it eats everything , but also kicks like a mule

I've had a L1A1 for four weeks. It's also a inch gun, but an imbel reciever. All my metric mags work well. (7)  The gun runs 150gr SP ammo perfectly, and I was ringing steel at 500 right after a perfect 100m zero.

I checked my gas settings on the first mag- even on zero the gun would cycle the reloaded ammo. I turned it to 5, ran a few mags, and then switched it to gas off to see how accurate at 500m I could get.

It turns out to be  very accurate.

I took it home, and took all the decades of copper out of the barrel. I really like the rifle.

Best $700 I've spent in a long time.

Sir,
1. Can you explain how you zero your FAL at 100, because I have difficulty doing mine?
2. If your FAL can lock the bolt back at a gas setting of zero, what is the rationale of setting it on 5?
3. Can you post some pics of group size at 500 to show what "very accurate " means, since the barrel has decades of copper fouling?

Assuming you have the correct inch gas block and front sight setup;

Slide your rear sight to the lowest setting.  Shoot the rifle at a SR1 type target, a black ball of about 6" which you can download online for free with a google search.  Choose if you're a center mass holder or a 6 o'clock hold. Personally to me a battle rifle should be center mass hold, a service rifle used for competition may be better with the 6 o'clock hold depending on preference, eyesight, age etc..  

Observe impact.  

Adjust your elevation by loosening the tiny set screw on the muzzle side of the gas block below the front sight.  It's a set screw with a cone shaped tip that engages a v grove in the front sight's threaded post.  If you're 3 inches off it won't take much, a half or full turn.  Clockwise rotation of your front sight will lower your front sight blade and raise your bullet impact.  Anticlockwise will raise your front sight and lower your bullet's impact on paper.  [ETA- a quick google search because I couldn't remember what the manual says; a half rotation of the front sight is (50mm) 2" at 100 m.

reset the set screw.  (oh, some century guns are missing the set screw, you really want that or your front sight will rotate on it's own and piss you off)

Windage is done with the opposing screws on the rear sight.  I suggest you always back out one screw before cranking the pushing screw. Greatly reduces the chance of damaging your screw slots.


OP, I would certainly try the rifle with an inch mag.  They run about $25 if you shop around. This should get you a better and more reliable lock up and a consistent feeding "resistance".   A sloppy mag or multiple differently sloppy mags I could definitely see one having to play with the gas to gain bolt speed from mag to mag.  That obviously is a poor way to go.  You might also be sure to disassemble your mags and clean the grit, grease and shit inside them if you haven't already done so.   Surplus mags often come with surplus crud and rust on the inside of the mag.  On my steel .308 mags I like to clean, degrease and protect the inside of the mag with a layer of car wax buffed off.  Prevents rust from coming back and I think is less likely to grime up like oil and grease would.

To zero at 100 I had to totally remove my front sight post, and file 1/8 of an inch of steel off the threaded end. This allowed my peep sight to group about an inch high at 100m. The rear sight needed to come over all the way right. So I backed the left and right side windage screw out and pushed the entire assembly off. This revealed the z shaped spring on the underside and all the decades of debris trapped in the sight. I found sand and woolidh fiber caked with grease in the crevas and rails, old paint on the ball and spring mech also. I cleaned all that out. Torqued and locktited the left side windage all the way in, realigned the z spring and slid on the sitght. I then tightened the right keeper screw until it engaged the z spring ratchet. Adjusted the tension until I was dead on windage one inch high.

Then I simply slid my elevation to 500 and fired five shots on my steel at 500. Ignore the big spalds those are my .338lm
The .308 climb the left side. First hit is circled in red. I'll shoot more and post pics-


I set the regulator for five, because it showed no perceptible accuracy or POI change with my 150 grain reloads -at six - I started to notice a flier every so often in my groups.

I will take more pics of my groups at 100. Three inch-   five and ten rd patterns / with significant clover leaf sub groupings.

1V

with your sight needing to be all the way to one side I wonder if your barrel or gas block is out of line rotationally.

You got it zeroed and it runs,  that's pretty much all that matters.

The rear sight is not exactly loaded with lots of travel. And it effects nothing cosmetically. Good enuf for a bad day you want to live thru.

Happy camper with my L1A1 Australian, British and one StG58.

All work great and give me great groups.

I bought a Century thumbhole sporter years ago.    I sent it off to an FAL smith in Arizona to be rebuilt.   The good thing was the upper receiver was Imbel.   The original Century was a horrible build, dangerously loose headspace, bent barrel, on and on.   The only remaining part back from the 'smith is the Imbel upper.   Now it is a great shooter but it will always be a Frankengun.   I don't regret going this route back when real milsurp parts were cheap and plentiful.   These days, no way.

The red furniture is gone. I got some proper Inch magazines. I polished the feed ramp a bit and opened up (slightly) and smoothed out the edges of the opening at the bottom of the receiver so that the mags could feed better. I also replaced the Century gas rod with a DSA rod (had to shorten it about 1/8 inch). The gun is running now. With the gas setting at 3 it runs good and tosses the brass about four or five feet. With the gas adjustment on 2 it launches brass about 10-15 feet. I still get an occasional failure to feed or stovepipe, but generally it's shooting pretty well. Seems like the more I shoot it, the better it gets. I haven't tried any crazy rapid fire mag dumps but am shooting about as fast as I can maintain aimed fire and it seems to be keeping up. I don't like the Century muzzle brake but otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it. Given what I have in this gun I'm not sure it's worth it to track down a better gun with a more acceptable receiver brand name.

Picked up a STG-58 Numbers matching on a Dan Coonan receiver, brother was hitting clays with it 3/4 of the time at 150yds with irons. Using 168gr FGGM rounds though. I am going to run some 147gr this spring and see what it can do with a Leupy MK4 Tact on it. Gun has been 100% since adjusting the gas system, if you don't know what you are doing and set it to full pressure its hard to find the brass.


 

Same here. I have an Australian Lithgow L1A1-F1 (Palau New Guinea clone) built on a DSA L1A1 receiver, an Imbel FAL built on an Imbel Gear logo receiver, and a G1 built on a DSA metric receiver.

Personally, there is no way I would get rid of that rifle. Sounds like it works pretty well and has good headspace, so I would just work on trying to wear it out. I predict you will be unsuccessful at such an endeavor.



One thing to be aware of with FALs is that unlike an AR, they will fire out of battery. The full auto originals wouldn't, but the process of making them US-legal also eliminated the component that prevented OOB discharge. For that reason it is inadvisable to set the headspace too tight, or to use neck-sized-only brass in them.

If you don't reload, you don't have to worry about NSO brass. If you do, just set your sizing die for full length resizing.

You know you want one of these.

Pricey but very nice =)

FAL SA58 TACTICAL PARA carbine rifle, 16.25" fluted medium contour barrel by DSarms

If you find a Imbel receiver they are GTG.  I got lucky with my century/imbel build, runs like a scalded ape.

 Do want... Cant Haz  (Fucking NJ   )  so im doing a Rhodie repro on a Entreprise kit, and probably a Coonan upper

It's even nicer with a Vltor handguard on it.

Actually, I have no desire for a folding stock .308. I don't even understand what the point is. Is this for randomly spraying bullets out of cars or something?

As others have said, Century can be hit and miss.  Mine is a hit, it's a Imbel build metric receiver, the rest of the rifle is Aussie.  It runs great and gets lot's of love at the range.   Get a good set of wood and a correct flash hider for the full L1A1 effect.  

AR's are cool, but the FAL is Sexy, Classy Beast.  To my eye, the FAL is the most beautiful battle rifle ever made, a deadly work of art.

 

That is kind of an ignorant statement that borders on being both anti-gun and "Fuddish" and has no place in our tech forums.  



I spent twenty years in the military; with a shorter weapon (GAU-5/A, GUU-5/P, M4, etc. versus an M16A1/A2) it is easier to get in and out of a vehicle while on patrol, stow the weapon in the vehicle, sling the weapon to carry stuff, climb stairs/ladders to check on the troops in towers, etc.





The reason that I currently like rifles with folding stocks is that you can squeeze more of them into a safe than you can rifles with non-folding stocks.  





 

You're right. All guns should have collapsible/folding stocks . . . for when you need to climb ladders and stuff . . .




FWIW, I generally share your preference for a collapsible stock on an AR rifle. The para FAL just doesn't appeal to me, though. If you like the Para, more power to you. I was just reacting to the "you know you want it" comment. Cause, I really don't . . .

My bad Bladeswitcher; my sarcasm detector isn't working at 100% and I missed that you were responding to the "you know you want it comment.



Yes, the side folder is a bit more challenging to get a good cheek weld on in regard to obtaining a good sight picture so I threw an Aimpoint T1 on mine so now I'm good to go.  Enjoy your awesome FAL.  

This and they are 7.62x51 they teach people the difference between cover and concealment My PARA and a a STG 58 are my toys. .

Just a question about you making a Rhodie repro in NJ. Did the law change to allow FAL "Style" rifles. I lived in the Peoples Republic of NJ until four years ago. Back when they banned several fire arms (AR HK MAC FAL and others) , several years later one could buy an AR style rifle as long as it did not have those evil things like, folding stock,flash hider,bayonet lug.
But they never allowed the FAL or HK style. I would check very carefully to be sure if what you want to build is legal.
Remember, they just made it a felony to have an unregistered BB gun

BB guns have  been considered "Firearms" since 1966 when the stupid permit system went into effect, the only ones "Registered" technically are pistols.  So far the only actual "Type" that has been completely banned is M-1 Carbines.  for FAL-types, as with everything else, as long as it isnt marked "FN-FAL" or "SAR-48"  It's Good to go, just like AR's cant be marked "Colt AR-15".    Coonan, Enterprise, Century ( ), Imbel, and other receivers are Ok, as long as the rest of the rifle is compliant.....  FAL-types are pretty popular in  NJ, I see them a lot.  IF the former AG had had her way, the "Type" bans would have gone into effect going after EVERYTHING, but she was stopped before then.  PTR and other HK Clones are perfectly legal, it's ALL About the Markings.  "Substantially Identical means "Marked as the Listed, banned Firearm", except, as said, in the case of the GI Carbine.  The biggest problem will be a Muzzle Device, since none of the compliant ones really have the right look.   Looking at the standard Belgian hider though, it is almost more of a brake, since the muzzle end is constricted a bit, and threaded  to accept the BFA.  The truly sad thing is, I doubt anybody would bat an eye if i DID just use a standard Belgian-pattern hider...but i'll put something compliant on it anyway, just to be sure.

I got into FALs a couple of years ago and spent months researching before my purchase.  Here's the basics to know:

The Good

Receivers:  Imbel, DSA (the older forged receivers), Coonan and Argy
Barrels:       Imbel and Austrian

The Bad

Century Arms, Hesse, Enterprise Arms


Generally....G1's are worn out.  StG58's are excellent.  Imbel barrels that are not badly pitted are excellent and if pitted in the first few inches from the muzzle can be shortened.

Buy surplus mags!  Austrian, German, Israeli, Imbel work great.  Moses Mags have excellent reviews!  Korean and DSA (20 round) mags get bad reviews!

Personally I don't like AR rifles.  I would choose the FAL over the AR10 any day.  Market is soft right now for the FAL and a great time to buy IMO.

Someone on the FAL Files was using their StG-58 on IMBEL build with a scope on DSA mount and Federal 168gr. GMM ammo to get 1.7-1.8 MOA 10-round groups out to 715 yards (all rounds on the black on a shoot 'n see style target at that range).  The FAL, while not ideal accuracy-wise on account of its design, is capable of much better accuracy than most people realize.  Being able to get your entire magazine to shoot within the area of a man's upper torso at 800 metres would seem to be quite sufficient practical accuracy for a 7.62mm combat rifle.  Beyond that, the difference would seem to largely be academic.

I got into FAL's fairly cheap 10-15 years ago and enjoy hitting steel past 200 yards with iron sights.  If you have the ammo, the gun, the range, and enjoy it you should not need any help deciding whether to keep it.  
I built my first FAL for about 30% less than AR10's were going for or better and ammo, mags, and parts were cheap.  I see no reason to give up this particular type of range fun.  They are a good iron sight compliment to a garand.  When my eyes go and I can't hit any steel they will be getting sold.

Because Rhodesia

No, it's for making it fit very nicely behind the seat in my truck. Oh, and the FAL folding stock locks up tight when open, so no rattling like with an AR carbine....

The original DSA SA-58 brake (3-hole) looked good on the rifles.

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AR's and FAL's are different guns.

If you like guns, you can have both.

Use or collect as your needs or enjoyment moves you.

YES!

I wanted a Para, resisted, and am not suddenly finding myself weakening to the temptation yet again.