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Posted: 11/22/2015 6:23:05 AM EDT
[#1]
You are lucky that you didn't have a negligent discharge loading it that way. You may want to google M1 "slam fire" for some info. The rifle has always been designed to feed ammo from the enblock clip. That's why they make single, two and five shot clip variants. I assume you gave it a good cleaning before you shot it. CMP guns need to be cleaned well prior to use to get the preservative grease/oil out of them.
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Posted: 11/22/2015 10:14:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Lock your bolt back and look at the face of the bolt. See that square slot in the receiver just below the ejector? The firing pin is blocked by the receiver until the bolt rotates into battery and positions the firing pin to fit thru the slot. The firing pin can't reach the primer until this happens.
Recommend closing the bolt from fully open, not partial. The rifle "stuff feeds" rather than "controlled feeds." The extractor has to snap over the rim after the cartridge is in the chamber. This takes some force. There are single loading "sleds" available. -- Chuck |
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Posted: 11/22/2015 11:49:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Why did the "range officer" take the round? Did you give it to him or did he "take" it?
Was the dimple deeper than the normal dimple of an unfired round that gets ejected? |
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Posted: 11/22/2015 2:19:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why did the "range officer" take the round? Did you give it to him or did he "take" it? Was the dimple deeper than the normal dimple of an unfired round that gets ejected? It looked as deep as a fired round. I hit the operating rod several times with the mallet and the bolt was moving back and forth until I was finally able to move it with my hand. Maybe this movement caused the dimple to grow larger and larger each time. |
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Posted: 11/22/2015 3:28:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He took it because they have a bucket where they collect duds and bad ammunition and then dispose it later. It looked as deep as a fired round. I hit the operating rod several times with the mallet and the bolt was moving back and forth until I was finally able to move it with my hand. Maybe this movement caused the dimple to grow larger and larger each time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why did the "range officer" take the round? Did you give it to him or did he "take" it? Was the dimple deeper than the normal dimple of an unfired round that gets ejected? It looked as deep as a fired round. I hit the operating rod several times with the mallet and the bolt was moving back and forth until I was finally able to move it with my hand. Maybe this movement caused the dimple to grow larger and larger each time. SLED. Buy one. |
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Posted: 11/22/2015 4:49:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SLED. Buy one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why did the "range officer" take the round? Did you give it to him or did he "take" it? Was the dimple deeper than the normal dimple of an unfired round that gets ejected? It looked as deep as a fired round. I hit the operating rod several times with the mallet and the bolt was moving back and forth until I was finally able to move it with my hand. Maybe this movement caused the dimple to grow larger and larger each time. SLED. Buy one. |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 7:55:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Bs on the sled - garands have been fired single shot dropping chambered rounds with a released bolt since the 1930's by countless high power shooters and military troops. As long as ammo ( factory or reloads) is properly loaded you won't have a problem. Running across a bad round ( which sounds like you did) can cause problems in any gun.
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Posted: 11/23/2015 10:08:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah, like Chuck said. It's not a control feed like a mauser. At least I think they are, right? I used to use one for hunting growing up and I remember the round locking onto the bolt early in the feeding process. But if it's not a control feed like that, I don't see that it should be a big problem. Although I do have to think that it's going a good bit faster when it doesn't have the round to slow it down when picking it up out of the clip. And that extra velocity of the bolt may be just..... maybe too much? And maybe the single round sled is the best idea for single loading.
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Posted: 11/24/2015 12:42:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bs on the sled - garands have been fired single shot dropping chambered rounds with a released bolt since the 1930's by countless high power shooters and military troops. As long as ammo ( factory or reloads) is properly loaded you won't have a problem. Running across a bad round ( which sounds like you did) can cause problems in any gun. Considering that it's a $5 part it's cheaper than replacing most any part of the rifle if damaged. That, and a slam fire is a slam fire. Bolt completely in battery, inertia firing pin fires the round, best case you don't hit where you want to. A part designed to reduce that isn't a bad thing. I've been told out of battery/slamfires are unlikely in an AR15 too, but I've had it happen-thankfully with just primed brass. Dropped it in the chamber, let action close, POP. Reason for the primed brass was because I was seeing if it would happen after having read about it. Much safer test with no bullet. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 2:01:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Hello, I was shooting my CMP Service Grade for the first time today with 1973 Greek HXP ammunition from the CMP. I was single loading rounds by putting them into the chamber and then letting the bolt fly forward about three quarters of the way (is this dumb?). At one point the bolt got stuck at the point where it was rotated about half way. I was able to get the bolt open by hitting the operating rod handle several times with a rubber mallet. The primer of this round was indented very deep and I'm kind of surprised it didn't go off. A range officer took the round to be disposed. I fired about 50 more rounds without any issue (72 rounds in total). Any idea what would cause it to get stuck? Should I clean the chamber? Have the rifle headspaced? Use different ammunition? Not single load? Is the rifle a special grade or a Service grade with a new CMP installed SA 1 or 2-55 barrel ? If it is the headspace is probably too tight as the CMP Armorers tend to headspace on the very tight side and you can run into chambering problems with surplus rounds on the high end of tolerances . If so you can send it back to the CMP and have them put a reamer in it again. Like said thousands upon thousands of rounds have been single loaded in Garands, in my 25yrs of shooting Garands in competition and other I have never had or seen a slamfire from single loading. But like any rifle always have the rifle pointed in a safe direction when loading and closing bolt. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 11:56:50 AM EDT
[#11]
I shot a garand match once and now I'm trying to remember what I did for slow fire..... I know I didn't have a single round sled. I must've let the bolt fly on a round. I can't remember if I left the round part way out of the chamber or not and how far back I'd let the bolt fly from...........
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Posted: 11/25/2015 7:36:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shot a garand match once and now I'm trying to remember what I did for slow fire..... I know I didn't have a single round sled. I must've let the bolt fly on a round. I can't remember if I left the round part way out of the chamber or not and how far back I'd let the bolt fly from........... You can make one too, easily. Cut and bend a clip in the right places and it more or less converts the rifle to have a blind magazine. Load 1, 2, etc and charge the rifle like you would an SKS. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 10:43:23 PM EDT
[#13]
OP:
Ok............ a few things: -Your process for single loading is perfectly fine. The M1 is NOT control-fed. By not releasing the bolt ALL the way back, you are closer to the speed if the cartridge had been stripped from the clip. If you put the round into the chamber and then pull the bolt ALL the way to the rear, you are increasing the speed at which it slams into the rear of the cartridge. That DOES increase the chances of a slam fire (particularly with problem cartridges). All it needs to do is have the extractor snap over the rim and rotate into the locked position. -ANY rifle you get should be cleaned before use. An M1 should be checked too........ its an old rifle. YES- clean the chamber. My 2% is you had a bad cartridge which got stuck is all. Chuck: Slam fires do and have occurred. For various reasons but anything mechanical can and does fail under the right circumstances. Shooting a 50+ year old rifle increases those odds............ |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:47:02 AM EDT
[#14]
1. Greek round probably on high side of size, if not out of spec.
2. Your procedure is fine, I usually release bolt from 50-75% distance from chamber, no slam fires. 3. Dimple on primer is normal, that's why sensitive primers should not be used for M-1, M1A. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 11:41:35 AM EDT
[#15]
I never owned a SLED.
I follow the old guideline for single loading; lay single cartridge on top of the follower with the bullet started into the chamber mouth. Press down on the cartridge with my right thumb while holding the charging handle with the right pinky. At the bolt release control the bolt forward about half way and then let her go. This diminishes the bolt speed but is enough to have the extractor snap over the rim. I am also in the habit of eyeballing the bolt lugs to make sure they are in the fully closed position. It's the way I do it. [shrug] |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 5:21:23 PM EDT
[#16]
The typically ignored loading protocol for the M1 Rifle includes bumping the charging handle forward to insure the bolt is closed. It's called forward assist in the M16 family.
-- Chuck |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 11:47:46 PM EDT
[#17]
I used a sled until that fateful time I stood for rapid fire in a Garand match and when trying to load realized the single load sled was still in there. Had to struggle a bit to get it out while holding the 2 round clip while trying not to hold up a no alibis match. I haven't used a sled or 2 round clip for several years with no slam fires or problems.
For single load, I put a round in the chamber, hold the op rod with the edge of the hand, use the thumb to depress the follower and bring the oprod half way home. Get my thumb out of the way and let her go. Most experienced highpower shooters will do it that way or as you have read in this thread a variation of it. The half way point is the key to avoiding the slam fire. |
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