Trying to figure out if this is legal to do. My search is turning up conflicting posts regarding the legality of installing a Rogue bullpup stock kit on a SOCOM 16. It is my understanding that OAL in this configuration is under 26" and therefore subject to NFA as an SBR - regardless if the barrel is 16".

To further complicate matters, my understanding is that a removable muzzle device does not count towards OAL. In the SOCOM, the muzzle device appears to be integrally attached to the front sight block. The front sight block acts as a counter to the gas block and secures the front end in place by using the gas plug. In order to remove the muzzle, the plug must be removed, rendering the gun inoperable (or single shot). My point is, does this manner of attachment make the muzzle device an integral part of the gun and therefore count towards OAL?

Has anyone done this set up? How did you determine OAL?

Reading my notes from 2011 concerning OAL... it's clear that the measurement is taken from end to end. This measurement includes the muzzle device. My notes also indicate that a bone stock SOCOM 16 with it's 16.25" barrel installed in a Rouge conversion kit has an OAL of just under 26.5", making it in compliance with federal law stipulating a minimum of 26.0" OAL. States such as California may have additional requirements/restrictions.

I run a Smith Enterprise SOCOM 16 GLFS, gas plug and DC Vortex on a 16.25" barrel.
This combination results in an OAL of 27.75"

Thanks for the pic. Is the muzzle brake removable? I dont think the one that comes with the socom 16 is. However, it is attached to the Fsb And that one is removable. I've always thought that in order for the muzzle device to count towards OAL, it must be permanently attached to the barrel. Given that he M1A has a diffent design than say, an AR, I'm confused.

The Smith kit is two pieces, plus the gas plug.
The Springfield device is one piece, plus gas plug.

The rules mention the butt stock, and if it's fold-able or remove-able,
but there is no mention of the muzzle device one way or the other.

I think the removeable muzzle device is for determinig barrel length and not overall length

Yes, I believe you are correct.

I found an ATF letter that discusses OAL determination. One thing is clear - that muzzle attachments do not count towards OAL unless it's permanently attached. Still confusing because the Muzzle is attached to the FSB and the FSB is an integral part.

See 2nd post on page 3

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/525036_Request___Scans_of_any_letters_from_the_BATFE__that_pertain_to_AR_pistols.html&page=3

A question for our friends on the left coast, living behind enemy lines.

Is California's rule concerning OAL based on 30 inches

I have been asking around and digging deeper.

.......................

UPDATE:

With regards to M14/M1A bullpup conversions meeting the NFA overall length (OAL) requirement of 26.0"

The official measurement is taken from the end of the butt stock to the crown of the barrel.
The 16.25" SOCOM barrel renders an OAL of 24.50".

 Unless you want to add the 14.0 ounce, 2.0" factory butt stock spacer,
the 16.25" barrel does NOT meet NFA OAL requirements in the Rogue.


Bottom line:

Choosing an M14/M1A with an 18 or 22 inch barrel is the very BEST choice for your bullpup conversion.
An 18.0" barreled action in the Rogue renders a legal OAL of 26.25" when measured butt stock to crown.


I have removed the CQB-16 from my Rogue, and I'm deciding on a plan of action.
Replace the 16.25" barrel with an 18.0" barrel, install a standard 22" barreled action, or give up.