I haven't done one yet, but from my lengthy research into submitting one, you certainly need to put the length

Yes.  You can make it shorter than the length you put on the form but not longer.

I was reading more last night and it has to be withing reason. You cant put down 20" and then make a 6" suppressor, because you need to notify the ATF of the change.

So on a form 1 I put in a 6 inch length it would be kosher to end up with a can 5.5"?

To my knowledge, yes.

Same thing I tell the girls.....

A few form 1 cans completed

12ga



Micro 22 (3.5" long)



Compact 22 for heavy use (5" long)



Compact 223 with muzzle brake mount (5" long)
(Before cerakote)



50 whisper



20 gauge integral


410 integral


223 integral MVP

How is the Compact 22 for heavy use (5" long) performing without clipped cones?

Works as well as my SWR Omega to my ears. In general I prefer not to clip the cones, I know it adds turbulence to help slightly increase reduction - but I find it can cause a greater change in POI than symmetrical cones.

Sure wish I lived closer to you. A Form 1 can is about the only way I could ever justify putting one on my 50 Beo.

Might you have blueprints for the shotgun ones, I've got a pump 410 I'm interested in doing and maybe a single shot too

Videos of the integral shotgun suppressors would be sweeeeet!

I can't tell you how jealous I am. Not only of your collection, but your abilities. I'm trying to teach myself the necessary skills to knock out some F1 suppressors. Its an uphill battle to learn on your own.

I just bought my lathe two years ago. I had never touched one before so I a started playing with parts and then started submitting form 1's, so I understand what you mean by self taught

Here is a video of the 12 ga and 20 ga
http://youtu.be/cXq9_9J7LiM
http://youtu.be/38xI-AooT_w

Are the 12ga baffle off center, is it an optical illusion, or are you using a rubber nipple/wipe (?) inserted into the baffle ?

PRETTY SURE BATFE LEVELED SOME BUTT HURT AT SIG OVER THAT MUZZLE BRAKE...NOT TOO LONG AGO THEY RULED IT A BAFFLE NOT A BRAKE...PRETTY SUTE SIG IS LITIGATING...RUMOR IS THE SIG BRACE RULING WAS AN IN YOUR FACE FU TO SIG...

It must be an optical illusion, the baffles are symmetrical, the bore of each baffle is tapered to reclose the wad as it goes through and the spacing keeps the wad supported.  No rubber used, everything is aluminum other than the stainless mount

Micro 40 caliber suppressor 4" long. Weighs under 4 oz so no booster needed. Anodized aluminum with stainless thread insert.  Designed to be shot wet. Have a couple hundred rounds through it and its easy to carry on a conversation while shooting.



Just finished micro 223 suppressor. Under 4" long. 4130 tube and mount with 17-4 baffles.

how is the reduction on the shorty.  thinking of something like that for my SBR.

2"OD micro suppressor? Please tell us how well it suppresses the sbr.

for a form 1 homemade suppressor, do you still need a trust ?

read the whole thread and did not see that mentioned anywhere.

To efile a F1 you need a trust/corp/LLC/etc

 
ok.... make a trust, send in form 1, get it back, make can, then save money$$


sounds easy enough.

No trust required to paper file a Form 1 just like you would an SBR for instance.  You can file it personally which requires local CLEO sign-off, finger print cards & photo just like you would a SBR.  Exact same process.  You only need to do a trust if you wish to eFile like those who can't get CLEO sign-off in their county for whatever reason.  I don't condone abuse of the loophole by those who are able to get sign-off to save a couple of months waiting but that's a topic for another thread entirely.

It's not a "loophole", a Trust is an asset management tool. It allows Trust property to be assigned to heirs and sidesteps issues with probate and contested wills in the event of the Trust Grantors death. It also allows multiple persons to be in legal possession of Trust property unlike an individual.  Only the individual and those under the individual's immediate supervision while the individual is present would legally be allowed to use or posses NFA items owned by an individual. I could probably get a CLEO sign off where I live, but why would I when I can form a Trust, and there are no legal issues with my wife ,listed as a Trustee, having access to the NFA items and I don't have to worry about whats going to happen to the NFA items when I pass away.

Are you a lawyer or just someone who stands to gain by selling trusts? When you pass your wife does a Form 5 & all of your NFA items are transferred to her possession for free. I've never once heard of a case where a spouse was charged with anything under any circumstances for being in possession of NFA items. The lawyers have done a wonderful job of convincing everyone we need their services. For a nominal fee of course.

 

As I said, this thread is NOT the place to have this discussion. If you wish to continue it do so in the proper thread as this one is about Form 1 suppressors & the gentleman's question regarding trusts has been addressed.

Then why come into this thread and make inflammatory comments? A trust is not a "loophole" as NWRed said, and you seem to have danced around his retort. Let me guess, you are ok with 41p too...

I'm not the one answering the question like a lawyer getting paid to sell Trusts.  The OP asked if you need a Trust and the simple answer was: no.  

 

As to your snide 41p comment... of course I'm not for further restriction of firearms or anything related to them.  41p is the direct effect of an overflow of people using this loophole to circumvent procedures put into place that work good enough... for most.  The problem lies in the influx of people who think they HAVE to have a Trust when they absolutely don't.  It should be reserved for those who live in counties that aren't able to get CLEO sign-off and not by those who feel they HAVE to have their SBR paperwork in a couple of months instead of a 4-6 months which is the majority of those who were smooth talked into thinking they needed a trust.  Truth be told very few actually need a Trust for NFA items and now, thanks to those who don't actually NEED this, they won't have an option if/when 41p passes.  Like I said, this isn't really the thread to discuss this topic but I'm glad you brought up 41p as this is exactly why I'm talking about gun Trusts in terms of reality.  


I have dozens of NFA items & every single one of them are registered to me personally.  If something happens to me a simple Form 5 will see that all of my items go to my wife without paying a single penny.  This BS that she will be charged with NFA possession if she ever has to use one of my items when I'm not home is fear mongering conjured up by lawyers to stand to make a profit setting up and maintaining Trusts.  No spouse has EVER been charged with possession of NFA items and I don't see it happening either.  This idea that we're all doomed is absurd and there's plenty of case law to support a strong defense even if someone was over zealous enough to file charges.  


If not having a Trust and having to wait a few more months for an NFA item helps someone who otherwise can't get CLEO sign-off obtain their own NFA items then I'm more than happy to make a small sacrifice.  We have an entire generation of instant gratification & only looking out for themselves to blame for 41p and if/when it passes a lot of people will be left out in the dark as it applies to NFA items.  It drives me nuts when I see misinformed on these gun forums preaching the religion of gun trusts to the even less-informed.


Don't bother trying to explain why I'm wrong because I have fact on my side in this discussion and your bringing up 41p proves my point.  You won't convince me otherwise so save your breath.  

I personally decided on a trust. I believe it to be the simplest and quickest way.  



It is entirely legal and regardless of what anyone tells you, it's not a "loophole", it's an approved, legal method, just like any other way of doing it.



ATF approved, they love 'em!

Uhmm...setting up a Trust is free ( and ridicuously simple) in my state, maybe your's is difficult and expensive. I'm an advocate of free trusts and agree that using an attorney for a simple Trust is a scam. If you wanted to roll your pension, life insurance and real estate into the same Trust then I would strongly advise using an Attorney to make it bulletproof and resistant to legal challenges.  

Did it ever occur to you that my wife will not be the recipient of my NFA items in the event of my death nor is she a listed Beneficiary on ANY of my 5 current Trusts? Trusts are part of Estate planning, if your plan is to give all your property to your "next of kin" who can establish a legal claim to everything of your's and let them decide what to with it then that's your call, some of us are looking ahead and deciding who takes legal possession of our property. State law vary, current wive's may not always have first legal claim to your assets when you pass, especially if you have previous wive's/former business partners etc.  Probate can be a motherfucker if other people lay claim to the deceased's estate and tie it up.

The fact that you can't recall a legal case where an NFA item was owned by a single Individual and someone else was charged with unlawful possession doesnt mean it hasn't happened somewhere in the US in the last 81 years since the NFA34 has been in effect. It's certainly not a far fetched possibility since mere possession  (physical control of the item without the legal owner/legal representative present) of an NFA item by someone not listed on the Form1/Form4/other attached legal documents is clearly illegal under the NFA34 and possibly state laws.


Edited for clarity.

My .308 titanium / Form 1 build~



Finished OAL length: 10.250"
Diameter 1.750 OD.
Wall thickness is .070"
End cap is 24 TPI.
Finished weight: 872.4 Grams / 30.77 oz / 1.9 lbs.
Direct thread mount : 5/8-24

The tube is grade nine (9) from Tiger Metals. The tube started at 12" long and I checked it for internal straightness and run out and cut it down and faced it to its finished length. I originally was going to make both ends threaded but changed my mind and pressed and welded one end and threaded the muzzle cap. Baffles are traditional cone shaped baffles that stack on each other. Grade five (5) titanium for the baffles and end cap. My blast baffle is stainless steel as well as the blast chamber spacer. I turned a bronze plug to gauge the ID or the tube and pressed it thru until I had a nice fit. I made my baffles .002" smaller than this plug.

It has 6 titanium cones , one stainless steel blast baffle and rebated / counter-bored end cap of titanium.


The large gas lens ( CK ) works well for shielding once I cranked the argon flow rate up. My first weld was a darker color but once I had the gas flow right the rest were shiny. I used the plug gauge I made for a support and to rotate it welding the seam where the tube and mounting piece meet. I put my ground clamp there and back purged it with a hose of argon in the muzzle end.

I had Veritas do the laser engraving and they did an EXCELLENT job on the tube.

Now I am looking forward to hit the range and try it on my SIG 716 & 556R

The thinking phase.....




Cutting baffles~




Tube with gauge plug and steady rest marks~



Some obscene stainless steel for the blast baffle and spacer~



Pile of baffles~



Measuring the stack and doing some math~



Threading Mount~



Getting ready to press into main tube. 1/4" diameter hole in tube X 6 to plug weld thru. Insert to tube has a .002" press fit.



Pressed in and ready to weld~




Welded ~



Weld hit with Scotch Brite~




Done with all the guts~

I used titanium rod on the 1/4" holes I filled in. The tube and end cap butted up tight and I just made a pass around and puddled it / blended it together.
I had my flow rate set at 15 and bumped it up to 25 and maxed out the time on my post flow.

You can tell quickly looking at the color of the weld or the color of your electrode if you have enough shield. I used the CK Gas saver lens / cup.

Dual flow Argon manifold for back purge~




CK Gas saver lens / cup~




Mixed bag for the 1st range trip....

I overlooked a detail on my SIG 716 host rifles with the factory barrel thread and my mounting design. SIG does / did not relieve the threaded diameter against the barrel shoulder. The minor diameter is .574 and SIG leaves it turned at .616 diameter which means my suppressor will not screw down tight against the barrel shoulder and the mounting surface on the suppressor.

( I discovered this at the range)

I did screw it on until it stopped and test fired a few shots. No baffle strikes ( good ) but a sharper tone than I anticipated. I was on the fence about clipping the cone baffles so this made the decision easy to give it a try. I simply removed the end cap and pushed the baffles out. I clipped all of them except the blast baffle. I also made a precision spacer to locate the suppressor against the barrel shoulder. I will tweak the length if I get an impact shift from the clipped baffle stack.

A trip to the range hopefully tomorrow.


Thread NOT relived to minor diameter ( .574  ) mic's at .616 so a can will NOT shoulder out on my SIG 716~




Parallel machined spacer to mound against barrel shoulder~



My Clipped baffle / .250 diameter mill .130 deep from edge~

^^ amazing design and execution and cool shop as well but what's the host for a 31oz suppressor?!?

SIG 716's or my bolt rifle.




Update~

Just returned home from the range after test firing with a smile on my face.

This trip I was able to properly attach my suppressor to my rifle and run some ammo thru it. My spacer allowed me to tighten down the suppressor against the barrel shoulder as I intended. Test firing with and without the suppressor and all round went to the same point of aim / impact. I am shooting Portuguese ball ammo and its does 2 MOA in this rifle and did the same with and without the suppressor attached.

My crappy cell phone video does not do the can justice but a few things can be seen. Recoil is reduced quite a bit with the suppressor attached. I am firing under a steel roof and concrete floor and its louder than firing out in the open. The suppressor REALLY drops the muzzle blast and you can hear the sonic crack down range.
(You can hear a guy with a lawnmower in the background ) I walked out in the open and fired a few shots and its pretty sweet.

I will say there is a HUGE difference in muzzle signature using the same baffles clipped vs UN-clipped. I aligned all "clips" the same way inserting them into the tube.
All baffles are clipped except the blast baffle. I want to put a radius on the inside area of my end cap and tweak a few other things to see if it improves.
I can also thin out some of my baffles to increase volume and drop some weight but it sounds nice and hopefully only get better.


Crappy cell phone video~

Unsuppressed 5 shots ball ammo~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpf6J6XTtR4



Suppressed~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhUAskXPoYY

Went the Trust route....not because I cant get my CLEO to sign off but I want to make sure of where all my weapons go when I die.

Was reading thru this area this morning and enjoy all of the machine work and was wondering if this stuff might work.

 They have been in my garage for 10 years  and have probably a thousand from the cig. to beer can size.  This morning I crudely cut one in a few pcs.  4 baffles in this one pc. Same as the one above it. Yes im retired and bored.





eta. one more

Can we be best friends?

Topic Moved

Thought I'd share a tidbit of info incase anyone wanted to know. SilencerCo Omega endcaps fit the older 1.55 OD Apogee SS tubes perfectly and the SDTA D tubes with a small overlap.

On my 8.38" Apogee SS tube, 16 formed FP drilled 3/8" , .308 cal







Also, homemade gas busting charging handle. This is a SI CH with a small piece of O-ring cut and Gorilla glued in place. First few times I had to push the CH to lock it if I did not let it fly home but it fits snug with absolutely no gas blow-by. O-ring was in a multi pack of different sizes so I chose the fattest one that would work.



The shine you see between the o-ring and receiver is a little bit of oil from cleaning it.

……….

BigWaylon, sent you a PM

Well, just tried to take the endcap off and I can't get it to budge. I need to find the propper spanner wrench and huck the can in a vice to get it loose. Maybe everything aligned just right to get it to lock down at the moment it bottoms out.

Two newer form 1s finished.

SPR copy. All stainless, mounts to ops inc collar and spikes brake



300 blackout 8" long but overlaps the barrel 2" on the 7.5" barrel. Stainless tube, mount and blast. 7075 aluminum baffles after that.
Compared to a 10.5" upper

Whats the rail in that last photo?

Thanks

It's from deltateamtactical.com
They have a 1.8" inside diameter and are inexpensive but nicely made

Did you happen to have a model number?

Also, what's the OD of the suppressor you have in the photo?

Thanks again!

My suppressor is 1.625" OD. The free float tube is used - http://www.deltateamtactical.com/Omega-Mfg-Inc-Key-Mod-KeyMod-Free-Float-10-Specter-Mid-Length-Inch-Handguard-Rail-System_p_4369.html