Your Ideal SBR for HD Assuming Money is No Object?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Your Ideal SBR for HD Assuming Money is No Object? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/29/2017 8:19:42 PM EDT

Hi Guys,

I'm interested in getting an SBR for home defense purposes (getting away from the 9mm on the nightstand), so I've been doing a bit of google'ing and reading up, and would like to get some updated thoughts along the lines of this thread thread since it's a little over a year and a half old.

If money wasn't an issue, what would be your preferred SBR set-up for home defense purposes (for an apartment/small house)?

-5.56, .300 BLK, or other?
-Barrel length and OAL including can?
-Custom built or factory direct/bought?
-Etc.?

I will be using it primarily for home defense (no hunting, etc.), and general range plinking to maintain proficiency (I have other rifles for long range shooting, shooting with the buddies, etc., so I want this focused primarily on HD). I don't mind going the Form 4 route either (was looking at DD MK18 or a Noveske 10.5, but curious to see what others would want as their "dream" SBR/SBR for HD). I will also be putting a can on it.

Thanks, and much appreciated!

Posted: 5/29/2017 8:47:58 PM EDT

[#1]

12.5 inch 6.8 wylde with an ARP15 barrel and bolt built with a mega monolthic carbine upper, mega ambi billet lower, young national match m16 BCG, Gieselle E2 trigger and a surefire socom suppressor, LaRue Rat Stock, Aimpoint M4,

Posted: 5/29/2017 8:49:02 PM EDT

[#2]

11.5" in 5.56mm

Posted: 5/29/2017 8:58:04 PM EDT

[#3]

Attached File

11.5 5.56

Posted: 5/29/2017 9:11:57 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Hi Guys,

I'm interested in getting an SBR for home defense purposes (getting away from the 9mm on the nightstand), so I've been doing a bit of google'ing and reading up, and would like to get some updated thoughts along the lines of this thread thread since it's a little over a year and a half old.

If money wasn't an issue, what would be your preferred SBR set-up for home defense purposes (for an apartment/small house)?

-5.56, .300 BLK, or other?
-Barrel length and OAL including can?
-Custom built or factory direct/bought?
-Etc.?

I will be using it primarily for home defense (no hunting, etc.), and general range plinking to maintain proficiency (I have other rifles for long range shooting, shooting with the buddies, etc., so I want this focused primarily on HD). I don't mind going the Form 4 route either (was looking at DD MK18 or a Noveske 10.5, but curious to see what others would want as their "dream" SBR/SBR for HD). I will also be putting a can on it.

Thanks, and much appreciated!

View Quote

I have an 8" Noveske 300BLK in my bedroom and a DD Mk18 in my office, both with cans.

Posted: 5/29/2017 9:39:38 PM EDT

[#5]

10" scar16.

Going for it now.

Posted: 5/29/2017 11:23:01 PM EDT

[#6]

7.5" 300 BLK XCR

Attached File

Posted: 5/29/2017 11:26:33 PM EDT

[#7]

For the specific purpose of HD, I'd wish for an MP5k with an Omega 9k.

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:11:32 AM EDT

[#8]

money no object - my ideal gun for HD would be suppressed, with the shortest OAL possible, and as powerful as possible within the constraints of the OAL. It would be a rifle-caliber PDW.

7.5" + can is obviously shorter than 10.5, etc + can, so I'd want a 7" barrel.

A 7.5" 223 suffers quite a bit in terms of effectiveness in such a short barrel, and is famously hard on suppressors, especially considering how little ballistic performance you're getting for the trouble.

7" 6.5 Grendel is nothing to sneeze at, but such barrels are basically non-existent commercially (Precision Firearms clocked 123 Match Kings at 2000 FPS out of their 7.5" custom barrel). This would also be hard on a can and difficult to suppress effectively (many cans aren't rated to 7.5" Grendel pressures).

7.5" 6.8SPC2 is about identical to Grendel (SSA 2nd generation 115 gr SMK OTM out of a 7.5 ” barrel: ave velocity = 2035 fps), and shares the same issues as Grendel.

To me, the clear optimal caliber for this role is the 300 blackout with Barnes 110 or 120gr supers. Parts are readily available, silencers are commonly rated down to such short barrel lengths, and the ballistics are on par with the other options. I built mine as a pistol for reasons, and I'm still waiting on the Omega 9k to be approved, but this is pretty much my ideal HD gun.

7.0" 300blk w/ Omega can, scout light, and T1.

Attached File

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:19:26 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
7.5" 300 BLK XCR
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/23396/xxxcr-219532.JPG

View Quote

I just came in my pants

Posted: 5/30/2017 1:07:26 AM EDT

[#10]

money was no object pipe dream build for HD with apartments in mind would be a colt mars 6-7" barreled AR in .256 win mag rimless, have barnes make a ~65gr tsx bullet taylored to the muzzle velocity (2000-2400 ft/sec) suppressed. topped with a t2 aimpoint.

more realistic approach would be a MK18 suppressed possibly down to a 7.5-8" barrel with black hills 50gr tsx ammo and the aimpoint t2 built as light and balanced as possible.

Posted: 5/30/2017 8:18:36 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
money no object - my ideal gun for HD would be suppressed, with the shortest OAL possible, and as powerful as possible within the constraints of the OAL. It would be a rifle-caliber PDW.

7.5" + can is obviously shorter than 10.5, etc + can, so I'd want a 7" barrel.

A 7.5" 223 suffers quite a bit in terms of effectiveness in such a short barrel, and is famously hard on suppressors, especially considering how little ballistic performance you're getting for the trouble.

7" 6.5 Grendel is nothing to sneeze at, but such barrels are basically non-existent commercially (Precision Firearms clocked 123 Match Kings at 2000 FPS out of their 7.5" custom barrel). This would also be hard on a can and difficult to suppress effectively (many cans aren't rated to 7.5" Grendel pressures).

7.5" 6.8SPC2 is about identical to Grendel (SSA 2nd generation 115 gr SMK OTM out of a 7.5 ” barrel: ave velocity = 2035 fps), and shares the same issues as Grendel.

To me, the clear optimal caliber for this role is the 300 blackout with Barnes 110 or 120gr supers. Parts are readily available, silencers are commonly rated down to such short barrel lengths, and the ballistics are on par with the other options. I built mine as a pistol for reasons, and I'm still waiting on the Omega 9k to be approved, but this is pretty much my ideal HD gun.

7.0" 300blk w/ Omega can, scout light, and T1.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/435611/P1040663-219563.JPG

View Quote

That is almost exactly what I built.
Only differences;

Magpul k grip
8" CMMG 300blk barrel
BCM KMR 7"
XPS-2
Ruger marked Sampson buis that were in parts bin
30cal PWS triad fh

I like the look of the AP on the LT660HK, I have the same on a 551a1.

Posted: 5/30/2017 9:10:58 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

That is almost exactly what I built.
Only differences;

Magpul k grip
8" CMMG 300blk barrel
BCM KMR 7"
XPS-2
Ruger marked Sampson buis that were in parts bin
30cal PWS triad fh

I like the look of the AP on the LT660HK, I have the same on a 551a1.

View Quote

that sounds like a cool gun, but it also sounds like all it has in common with what I posted is the caliber. lol.

Posted: 5/30/2017 11:42:44 AM EDT

[#13]

It would be a 10.5"-11.5" 5.56 with a 6" or so suppressor loaded with 62gr Federal Fusion ammo, with a T2, BUIS and a light.

Posted: 5/30/2017 11:57:30 AM EDT

[#14]

I would probably get one of the LWRC Six8's with a 7.5" barrel and a custom short suppressor. I would put an Aimpoint on top and Surefire M600V or mini scout on the side.

Currently I use a 10" 5.56 setup with suppressor.

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:12:24 PM EDT

[#15]

Probably the Q Honeybadger in 300BO, with a T2/Scalarworks combo up top, and a M300 or Arisaka equivalent light up front.

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:25:42 PM EDT

[#16]

KAC SR-15 Mod 2 CQB
KAC QDC CQB Suppressor
Aimpoit T2

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:30:59 PM EDT

[#17]

My current.

12" stealth upper (home brewed)
5.56, recce 5 and added a Ariska light since this pic

Next (anyway now) m92 pap/sbr

Then mp5 clone sbr.

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:54:26 PM EDT

[#18]

I'm doing this design myself. Already have the AR lower SBR, so that changes my option. Yes I know rifles>Pistols but I think like a 5" MPX with can may be better for my situation. However, I'm doing the following:

AR lower
PDW stock or at least LWRC short ass stock
8" barrel in 300BO
can of some sort
free float tube that covers all but an inch or so of said can
Aim point
folding polymer sights
good weapons light
sling

I think this might be the perfect all around set up for me. would be fun to plink sub sonics, hunt pigs if I get the chance with supers, good for anything really between quietly solving problems or really blasting inside 150 or so yards.

I keep almost doing it. but then I always end up buying something else instead...

Posted: 5/30/2017 1:56:59 PM EDT

[#19]

I use a MK18 in 300 BLK with 762-SDN6

Posted: 5/30/2017 4:06:02 PM EDT

[#20]

8.3-10.5" 300blk suppressed with red dot and white light.

If I found a factory SBR with all I wanted I would do a form 4. Otherwise form 1 and build my own with exact parts I wanted.

Posted: 5/30/2017 4:40:20 PM EDT

[#21]

I like my 11.5" 556 with 75g TAP and my 8.5" 300blk with 110g Barnes

Both suppressed of course

Posted: 5/30/2017 11:20:33 PM EDT

[#22]

At my bedside right now is a sig 553 sbr with an aimpoint t2 a sure fire scout light and a surefire sound supressuer loaded with 64 grain gold dot.

Posted: 5/31/2017 7:10:03 PM EDT

[#23]

10.5 barrel, red dot and nice light with a lot of spill.

Posted: 6/2/2017 10:26:59 AM EDT

[#24]

My 11.5" SBR with a Protac rail mount light and Sandman-S.

Any 5.56 will be very loud inside and will easily penetrate drywall. If I was serious about a firearm to use inside my home it would be a Zenith MP5 with my Obsidian and frangible ammo.

Posted: 6/2/2017 6:49:35 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
My 11.5" SBR with a Protac rail mount light and Sandman-S.

Any 5.56 will be very loud inside and will easily penetrate drywall. If I was serious about a firearm to use inside my home it would be a Zenith MP5 with my Obsidian and frangible ammo.

https://i.imgur.com/ZI2R207.jpg

View Quote

if we're talking frangible ammo, then 9mm will probably penetrate more drywall than 223.

Posted: 6/2/2017 6:54:21 PM EDT

[#26]

Hmmmm 300 BLACKOUT, 8 inch Proof Barrel

Posted: 6/3/2017 1:54:47 PM EDT

[#27]

Hmmm, maybe a 8" 458 socom. Chances of firing more than 10 rounds is very very small. Might as well make them huge.

Posted: 6/4/2017 10:38:13 AM EDT

[#28]

Whatever pistol you're most comfortable with or a shotgun.

Ive just never found an AR/AK practical for home defense

Posted: 6/4/2017 11:44:08 AM EDT

[#29]

Yeah, but the current tacticool trend is rifles! lol. I live in a smallish house with many many narrow spaces where I am most likely to fight. A pistol, in some circumstances, is a huge advantage in versatility of deployment in tight quarters. Of course, a rifle bullet is more effective than a handgun bullet at stopping people, but ballistic affect is the very last thing (hopefully) that happens...being able to effectively get a round to a bad guy is kind of important to and there's plenty of realistic situations where a user might be able to do that with a pistol but not a rifle.

Posted: 6/4/2017 12:12:45 PM EDT

[#30]

Anything worthy of consideration as a home defense weapon (i.e., effective at stopping a home invading human) will easily penetrate drywall. I long ago stopped using that as a consideration.

Evidence

With that out of the way, I already have my ideal defensive setup:

ETA: BCM ELW fluted 11.5 upper, Gemtech switchable bolt carrier w/BCM bolt, Surefire RC556, Surefire X300U, Aimpoint T1, Noveske gen 2 forged lower, Magpul SR25/M110 receiver extension (A5) and VLTOR A-4 buffer, Colt LPK, Geissele SSA, magazine alternating rounds 62 gr. OTM and 62 gr. green tip.

Posted: 6/4/2017 10:48:25 PM EDT

[#31]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses. It seems like 7"-8" barreled 300 BLK is popular.

Does anyone have any suggestions on high quality 7" and 8" barrels? I was looking at the 8.5" Noveske originally, but I might want to go a little shorter (was thinking 7").

Thanks!

Posted: 6/4/2017 11:16:05 PM EDT

[#32]

MP5/10

Posted: 6/4/2017 11:25:59 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hi guys, thanks for all the responses. It seems like 7"-8" barreled 300 BLK is popular.

Does anyone have any suggestions on high quality 7" and 8" barrels? I was looking at the 8.5" Noveske originally, but I might want to go a little shorter (was thinking 7").

Thanks!

View Quote

Ballistic advantage hanson

Posted: 6/4/2017 11:52:02 PM EDT

[#34]

This is my HD/SHTF SBR.

Attached File

Posted: 6/6/2017 12:17:31 PM EDT

[#35]

Attached File

Posted: 6/6/2017 12:25:57 PM EDT

[#36]

I'll just stick to my MK18 MOD 0 type build

Posted: 6/6/2017 2:50:55 PM EDT

[#37]

I built a nice 300 BO for my HD gun, but if money wasn't a problem I think I would go with a MP5 SBR with a can.

Posted: 6/6/2017 3:06:57 PM EDT

[#38]

few people love 300 blk more than I do, but if you're going to use it for HD, make sure you do your homework on ammo selection. There are a LOT of non-optimal commercial loads that punch narrow holes through things and don't do much else.

Posted: 6/6/2017 4:56:11 PM EDT

[#39]

Liberty Leonidas 300BLK integral with Barnes black tips.

Posted: 6/8/2017 1:02:53 AM EDT

[#40]

I use a 8" 300 blk with a can, I use strictly Lehigh 194 grain handloads for hd and pest control. They are very quiet and do just as much damage as Barnes black tips.

Posted: 6/8/2017 10:35:16 AM EDT

[#41]

Having a quality weapon is clearly important. However, don't forget that you need to be trained in its use and practice often. If the price of 300 BLK ammo is going to interfere with this, get a 5.56 SBR, and you can add a 300 BLK later. Also, although 300 BLK makes an excellent SBR, you still sacrifice velocity with shorter barrels compared with longer barrels.

Posted: 6/8/2017 4:52:29 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Having a quality weapon is clearly important. However, don't forget that you need to be trained in its use and practice often. If the price of 300 BLK ammo is going to interfere with this, get a 5.56 SBR, and you can add a 300 BLK later. Also, although 300 BLK makes an excellent SBR, you still sacrifice velocity with shorter barrels compared with longer barrels.

View Quote

good points. but I think the velocity issue isn't a big deal when referring to Home Defense as most engagements would be within feet rather than yards. another big pro to the 300blk is muzzle blast doesn't seem to be as sharp as 5.56 even suppressed with supers.

Posted: 6/9/2017 8:18:46 AM EDT

[#43]

SIG 553 or B&T APC 556 with PDW stock. Insanely compact. For HD the sub-10" barrel is not an issue when using the right ammunition. Add a can (nod goes to APC for this) and it will be far less blasty (is that a word?) yet still sufficiently short.

Posted: 6/12/2017 9:05:21 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
10" scar16.

Going for it now.

View Quote

Right there with you.

Have 3 AR and 1 AK SBR's. Time to get something different.

Got it, shot it, painted it. Need to file the form 1.

Attached File

Posted: 6/12/2017 11:28:53 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

Right there with you.

Have 3 AR and 1 AK SBR's. Time to get something different.

Got it, shot it, painted it. Need to file the form 1.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/164007/IMG-2450-228895.JPG

View Quote

Thought you were pinning a YHM?

Posted: 6/13/2017 7:41:29 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thought you were pinning a YHM?

View Quote

Figure I might as well stamp it. It would cost less that way

Plus stamped guns don't leave the collection.

ETA: found a pinned 14,5 ar barrel in the parts box. Going to use that for a non NFA config upper.

Posted: 6/13/2017 11:33:52 AM EDT

[#47]

My ideal gun is the one I have. It started out life as a Smith and Wesson M&P Sport, then SBR with a new upper. 10.5 inch barrel with a Gemtech Trek-T with some Magpul stock( can't remember what one). MIdwest Industries 13 inch MLock rail so suppressor is partially hidden inside. Streamlight Protac- HL with a pressure switch opposite it. Magpul backup sights and a Trijicon MRO.

It is my duty rifle and has 3000 problem free rounds through it. Short enough to use in close in a house and then can also reach out. Have gotten consistent hits at 400 yards with just the read dot on a silhouette piece of steel. Sure for reaching out I would prefer magnification but for a do it all rifle it is amazing.

Posted: 6/14/2017 6:45:16 AM EDT

[#48]

For my situation, 5.56 is too much, neighbors close in every direction.

I went with a homebuilt 8" 300BLK, canned with subs, and a few magazines.

I have a canned, SBR'd PS90 for the wife.

Plus we both have our nightstand 9mm.

Posted: 6/14/2017 9:48:33 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
For my situation, 5.56 is too much, neighbors close in every direction.

I went with a homebuilt 8" 300BLK, canned with subs, and a few magazines.

I have a canned, SBR'd PS90 for the wife.

Plus we both have our nightstand 9mm.

View Quote

not to flaw your logic but from my readings 5.56 is less likely to overpenetrate than 300 blackout(especially subs). has a lot to do with momentum and fast light bullets tend to upset after traveling through wallboard and come apart quickly vs your slow heavy pill that's going to keep on going. it has everything in its favor to penetrate. High sectional density and a lot of mass.

Posted: 6/14/2017 11:24:49 AM EDT

[#50]

I would go with a pdw billet lower with a jard 1.5lb single stage trigger, a one off integrally suppressed .300blk upper with about a <14" overall length. 2 stamp gun, but short and quiet. Two 30rd pmags coupled together. One loaded with light frangible or fragmenting supers, the other loaded with a heavy solid to go through stuff if need be. Throw on a nice aimpoint and a light, gtg.

That or a ps90 sbr with my rimfire can on it.

My main concern would be over penetration with the way my home is laid out with the kids' room on other end of the house from the master bedroom.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Your Ideal SBR for HD Assuming Money is No Object? (Page 1 of 2)

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