Looking for the best pistol caliber SBR that i will be running suppressed. Things that matter to me are reliability, less blow back, accuracy, and in a compact package in that order. Ive looked at the sig mpx and Kriss Vector and would like to hear some feed back on them but this is not limited to those 2. I would like to see your systems and how you like them. (Please no AR15's)

HK Mp5 9mm or HK UMP 45acp 

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Thinking about making this an SBR in a couple months or purchasing another one to SBR.  20.75" collapsed and pretty accurate within 50.  Put a new MBT trigger in it last night and taking it out this weekend.  Think this might make an excellent HD gun with a can and some gold dots.

Liking my Scorpion a lot.

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This meets all of your criteria.

Put a folding stock on it for more compact size. Barrels can be cut as short as you want. Lots of caliber options. If it doesn't go bang, it's empty or you are using crap ammo. Zero blowback issues.

Probably an MP5 but I like my Scorpion

I really like my SIG MPX.

Any particular reason the Kriss vector doesn't get mentioned a lot?

Yup....me also.

This thing is sooooo freakin smooth.  Lawman 147gr has the least amount of gas in face....but I'm hoping the new charging handle and spring plate will seal up the gaps and mitigate gas in face.


Other options.....

MP5 in any of its forms. The SD is phenomenal.

Where did you get that bottom mp5 and how much $ does it run? Is it HK or a clone?

I think both of his are TPMs.

Mp5k with folding stock and compact can are what you seek.  Basically, exactly what generalpurpose showed above

LOVE my Scorpion SBR, most satisfying gun purchase I've ever made. Other than that I'd consider an MP5 if funds allow.

If you haven't figured it out yet from the previous responses, there are really 3 options you should focus on... an MP5 clone, the Sig MPX or the CZ Scorpion. Can't go wrong with any of them so it really comes down to budget and personal preference.

I have an mp5 and mp5k clones. They are great. I run the mp5 clone suppressedan all the time with an old SWR trident 9. It works great! Quiet, smooth, low very low recoil, no gas to the face, looks bad ass. The k is cool but the full size is shot more.

I used to have a 9mm ar set up on an sbr lower. After I got the first mp5 clone I sold the 9mm ar parts and made that lower an 8in 300 black out.

I'm working on a compact 3lug form one can that will replace the trident on the mp5.

James

Bottom one is an MKE Z5-P that I SBR'ed, added a Choate folding stock, 0/1 4-position ambi trigger group, and 922r compliance parts to. I'm in it for roughly $3k, but it could be done cheaper by not swapping to the ambi housing.

Top one is a TPM SD that I haven't done shit to. I'm in it for roughly $4k.

Shot the MP5, Scorpian,  and MPX. The MPX with a 4.5" 3 lug wins. Super fun and super quite.

The best pistol caliber sbr to suppress is .45. Because all .45 230 gr rounds are subsonic.

Kriss .45
Thompson .45
I'm sure they're other options too

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Another mp5 vote

Fact: 9mm suppresses better than .45.

Scorpion, almost no gas at all to the face and surpresses very well.

maybe a lot less people have them?  I would like to know how quiet they are, especially in 45...

How come MP5 over Scorpion? I am thinking about a Scorpion as the reports of little to no gas is what I hear.

You left out some of the facts.

What size 9mm round suppresses better than a 230 gr .45?

I have a Zenith fullsize MP5, a Zenith MP5 pdw, a Scorpion Evo, and a full size Uzi. My vote is fullsize UZI.

I have had a ton of problems with the cheap flat nose 147s (speer and federal) feeding in both MP5s and you aren't supposed to shoot 158s in them. Both blow shit back in your face.

The Scorpion is gtg but it isn't as quiet as the Uzi. Both the Scorpion and the Uzi have been 100% reliable with all ammunition. They also don't blow shit in your face.

Everyone talks about how quiet the MP5s are and they are quiet but I just haven't been happy with the reliability with the 147 grain loads. YMMV.

Eta: Because of where I shoot I am forced to stick to subsonic ammo. 124s and 115s feed and work fine in both MP5s. I just can't shoot those loads at my house.

Eta2: I saw you mentioned accuracy. My Uzi has been surprisingly accurate. I've got barrels from both robert rtg and from us barrel shrouds. I'd say it is about as accurate as the MP5s. The scorpion seems to be slighty less accurate.

I know smaller exit hole=less stuff=quieter, but curious out of a 45 silencer, would the smaller 9mm be same noise given both subsonic?

No.  All else being the same, subsonic 9mm through a .45 can is still noticably quieter than .45 through the same can.

No collection is complete without at least one MP5 variant. I have a MP5K-N (SP89 converted to K-N with DLO fullauto frame), MP5K (SP5K, soon to be sbr and sear/frame host), and a MP5-N (HK 94 getting the N makeover, will be a host for fleming sear). I love the K-N for its compact size and it suppresses very well. The MP5-N is iconic and also suppresses very well.

I love the MP5 family.

That said, I think newer generation SMGs outclass the MP5 in features and ergos. This includes the CZ Evo and the B&T APC. In full disclosure of what I'm about to say, I am affiliated with B&T USA.  I personally love the APC-9. It has excellent ergonomics, is ambidextrous, has a bolt hold open, is compatible with MP5 suppressors from the factory, has three excellent stock options (folding, folding/collapsing, and mp5a3-like retracting), and has easy optic mounting with a full length top picatinney rail. I like the one-piece aluminum chasis. And it is a very very smooth shooting little SMG. I find the APC-9 to be SMG perfection. As to reliability it is very reliable.

The UZI is a neat SMG and also iconic like the MP5. The open bolt fullauto UZI SMG is IMO the unequivocally most quiet SMG around due to its heavy bolt and and it's advanced primer ignition. I have zero experience with the closed bolt semiauto UZI, so I cannot speak to how well it suppresses. I personally  would not own a fullsize semiauto UZI. It is simply too heavy and is outclassed in features by the likes of the MP5 and more recent contemporary designs. It is far too heavy for what it is, the sights are crude, and the options for optic mounting are lacking when compared to other options. Sure one could use one of the top cover picatinney mounts, it's just not as elegant as the MP5, APC, Evo, etc... A semiauto Mini-UZI SBR would be neat, but again I cannot speak to the semiauto UZIs as my experience is with fullautos.

The USC/UMP is interesting, but it will cost you a pretty penny. I feel the APC has the positive attributes of the UMP, with the addition of some other features and a lower price tag.

The MPX is a very interesting design. I shot one for the first time last month. The ergos and features are great. We were not shooting suppressed, so I cannot speak to that.

The Kriss looks like an interesting design. I have some trigger time behind one and thought favorably of it, though we were not shooting suppressed.

You answered your own question in your post and didn't even know it.

The best choice is the AR in 9mm.

Reliable - my Colt 9mm has never jammed with any round.  Eats up hollow points like cannon fodder.

Accurate - 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards.  It's better than that, the limiting factor is me.

Blowback aspect - I don't notice issues with this.

Compactness - with a 10.5 inch barrel, it's 28 inches long, stock out.

I know the AR 9mm isn't sexy like the MP5's, it's just better.

It's interesting shooting various guns side by side. The AR15/9 has a somewhat "harsh" recoil, for lack of a better term. It's not heavy recoil, and certainly not painful. It's just sudden and jarring. It slows follow-up shots a little, as the gun moves off target. The MP5 is certainly smoother, but I don't have a lot of time on that platform.

What was interesting was playing with the closed bolt setup on the Uzi, and immediately swapping to open bolt. C/B feels similar to the AR15/9. After shooting those two, going to O/B feels like there is zero recoil. You can tell you are shooting a gun, but the actual recoil impulse feels almost nonexistent.

Of course, if you go from the O/B Uzi to a Sterling, that's a whole other world of smooth. I had to debate long and hard between the Sterling and the Uzi when I was shopping for a subgun.

The Sterling is so smooth. I passed on a DLO tube build for an insanely good price back around '04/05. I really wish I had bought it. The O/B UZI is very soft shooting, though I find the very low rate of fire to be somewhat choppy. Adding a buffer to speed the ROF makes for a much smoother gun.


I love my fullsize UZI (group/vector SMG). With Fiocchi 158gr subs and a can it is unbelievably quiet, far more quiet than my MP5s. And the UZI is an iconic must-own firearm IMO. With that said, all things being equal if we are talking semiauto-only SBRs, not SMGs, I would choose a B&T APC-9 over the MP5, UZI, AR/9, and any other design.


I have a good amount of time on the Colt 635 M16/9. In my opinion it is completely outclassed by the MP5. It's a viable option, but it's not nearly as smooth shooting as MP5, APC-9, UZI, Sterling, or even a Lage equipped MAC. Also, the 635 is essentially the same OAL as a mk18 and only about 1" shorter than a Steyr AUG with barrel installed. That's a big SMG/PCC.

If you are going for quiet (suppressed + subsonic) then I say .45 because nearly all 200-230 gr loads are subsonic.  No worrying about sonic crack no matter what you shoot through it.

9mm would be more versatile since you can shoot super and subsonic rounds.  And it's cheaper to shoot.

My brother's Kriss Vector SBR .45 with TiRant is very quiet.

Ditto

It's pretty loud at ejection port, doesn't suppress well. People will say it does, but compared to everything else I own, it doesn't.

Plus, the firearm itself just isn't that great. I've had the vector sbr since 2010 and it gets shot less than everything else I own. Also, imho 9mm is way better suppressed than .45 with respect to mag capacity/noise/cost/etc. cheapest subsonic 9mm I can find is like $16, where as the cheapest .45 I can is like $19-20 (prices for 50 round boxes found on midwayusa).   I'm assuming the dude who was claiming otherwise hasn't spent much time with both.

Now the suppressed mpx with binary... that gets shot all the damn time... if I'm not hunting something, then this is my go-to pcc.

Love my mpx



Hate my vector

Evo or MPX IMO. I own both. I've suppressed both. MPX the quality is there. Evo the price is there.

First, what brand of M-Lok top rail section is on your MPX Lancer CF HG?  I have the 6.5" CF Lancer on my MPX barrel, cut from 8.5" to 6.5".

I have a 5.5" Vector 45 sbr with Gemtech and also a 6.5" MPX sbr with Tirant. Both suppressors are similar in light weight design, etc.  Given a somewhat apples to apples comparison between those two suppressors and those two similar barrel lengths, I don't find the Kriss any louder really.  I'll have to get to an outdoor range and shoot them on the same day just to compare for myself (most indoor ranges require hearing pro).

I do notice BIG TIME that the MPX is much lighter weight and a thinner package, folded (my MPX is telescoping) or unfolded, compared to the Kriss Vector. The weight difference is the huge bonus for MPX.

eta Another HUGE benefit to the MPX is the user-based modularity of the MPX vs the Vector.  I removed my MPX barrel in under 5 mins max, the Vector requires sending it back to Kriss or finding an AK guru and having them press the barrel pins out, which can be a gamble even if done properly AND kiss your Kriss warranty bye-bye.  Then there's warranty, Kriss vs Sig.  MPX wins there too.  I still love my Kriss, plus a suppressed 45 sbr is just plain bada$$ imo.

I shoot the Speer 147s through my Z5RS without issues, suppressed and unsuppressed.

I have a CZ Scorpion Evo, Zenith Z5RS (Full Size SBR) and a Atlantic MP5k clone.  All are SBR'd.

The Full size MP5 is my favorite for both suppression and shootability.  My Zenith has been 100% reliable even with flat point 147gr Speer ammo.  

My MP5K is fun but I much prefer the layout of the full size.

 I don't enjoy shooting my CZ Scorpion at all.  Lots of recoil and just not a very enjoyable platform, especially when I have MP5s.

 I have zero interest in Sig long arms.  Everything they have released in the past decade has had major problems and required major fixes.  The MPX has been no different.  YMMV but I will pass on beta testing Sig's newest product.

The speer 147s go supersonic or trans-sonic quite often in all of my guns other than my Z5P. This is a complete non-starter with me because of where I live. I have to have subsonic or nothing.

You said you were shooting then so I'm not sure why you didn't point that out first.

At any rate you're recommending things to others based on your own restrictions.

I will say the Speer 147s are flawless in my CZ and my Z5-RS, and notably quieter in the Z5-RS.

I stated in my original post that I couldn't shoot supersonic ammo. Also while the Speer 147 runs better than the shorter oal Federal 147s in both Zeniths it still hasn't been flawless in either. This is using POF, MKE, and HK mags.

SBR McKay Ind. Uzi + 8.5" SS style barrel + Gemtech Multi-mount + 158grn PP ammo = hella fun.

I have heard multiple people say they like the MP5 over the MP5K clones.  What is the issue you see with the K?

It's a purpose designed shoulder fired gun with a longer barrel which means better ballistics and better ergonomics.

Really liking the B&T APC45, gets you pretty close to the ump without the stupid HK pricetag or a usc conversion. Granted it costs almost as much but at least the controls are updated and its not all polymer construction.

Only experience I have with the kriss vector is watching one blow up next to me with a 230gr blazer .45 cartridge. Sheared a bolt lug and trashed the chamber and ejection port, bullet was squibbed in the barrel. I believe the gun had around 60 rounds through it before the failure.

IMHO, an MP5. I like my Colt 9mm AR, it's a lot of fun and runs 100% but the MP5 is smoother and quieter. I held a Scorpion but thought the ergos were meh. The MPX, well I used to be a Sig fan but not so much anymore after all their diamond plate blunders.

An MP5 will always be classic.


MKE Z-5P




MKE Z-5RS