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Posted: 7/18/2016 3:48:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet.
No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 3:55:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Just build an AR pistol and have a brace. Legal and you can travel with it between states.
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Posted: 7/18/2016 4:20:59 AM EDT
[#3]
He doesnt plan on using it and wants to know if he can have them in his truck in 2 separate shrink wrapped packages In many cases, having two pieces of an item is constructive notice that you intend to use them together for illegal purposes. For example, having an AR-style weapon in your gun safe and a Lightning Link in your sox drawer can be construed as 'possession of an unregistered machine gun,' even though they are not assembled. IMO Firepyro's idea is best. Or else suck it up and pay the extra, what, $300 for the license tax stamp, and build a SBR. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 5:15:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet. No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. HAHA. True. I'll give you that one. Thanks for the input though. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 7:32:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Yeah sounds like a great plan.
Until he gets pulled over for something dumb. Or his ex rats him out or a former friend. If your plan for SHTF is to roll around with a possible legal grenade that will fuck you before SHTF you need a new plan. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:25:15 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm going to say NO. i think its a bad idea. "Intent" is there.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:28:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Tell your friend to buy a colt 6920 on a private sale. No registration no legal minefield and if the 6 inches of barrel are the death of him he was dead anyway.
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:36:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet. No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. Ok... Time to pump the brakes brother... For one, BATFE regulations are a federal issue, not local LE... Second, your painting LE with a very broad brush. I'm a very pro 2A LEO and have several NFA items, and am well versed in NFA law. As far as I am concerned, NFA is not my jurisdiction... --- With that said, your "friend" is asking for trouble for no reason... Just build a SBR or use a brace/blade |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:52:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just build an AR pistol and have a brace. Legal and you can travel with it between states. This. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#10]
SBR, shockwave blade, pinned 14.x"
Don't be stupid |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:50:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok... Time to pump the brakes brother... For one, BATFE regulations are a federal issue, not local LE... Second, your painting LE with a very broad brush. I'm a very pro 2A LEO and have several NFA items, and am well versed in NFA law. As far as I am concerned, NFA is not my jurisdiction... --- With that said, your "friend" is asking for trouble for no reason... Just build a SBR or use a brace/blade Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet. No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. Ok... Time to pump the brakes brother... For one, BATFE regulations are a federal issue, not local LE... Second, your painting LE with a very broad brush. I'm a very pro 2A LEO and have several NFA items, and am well versed in NFA law. As far as I am concerned, NFA is not my jurisdiction... --- With that said, your "friend" is asking for trouble for no reason... Just build a SBR or use a brace/blade An exceptions, not a rule. Majority of the LEOs I run into are not familiar with NFA law. But yeah, brace. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 11:37:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HAHA. True. I'll give you that one. Thanks for the input though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet. No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. HAHA. True. I'll give you that one. Thanks for the input though. I wouldn't even worry about the brace. I put a rubber chair leg coaster on my pistol tube and it's what I'm going to grab if I ever have to ride through the trenches to pick my kids up in the middle of a BLM riot. Hell, I've even carried it hunting before since it is still legal for small game season when centerfire rifles are not. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 12:23:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Illegal via Case Law.
Just use a 16" BBL and be worry free. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 1:51:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I would say hell no. Go have a read here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_50/458710_SBR_trial_began_today.html |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 2:01:28 PM EDT
[#15]
And why would he depend on a gun that has never been assembled or shot for reliability or accuracy to protect his life? That is mind boggling.
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Posted: 7/18/2016 3:45:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And why would he depend on a gun that has never been assembled or shot for reliability or accuracy to protect his life? That is mind boggling. Also valid |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 7:03:18 PM EDT
[#17]
I wouldnt even think about it!
At the least, they would be both in the same "physical location" and its my understanding, that this alone will make for a really SHITTY day. When I built my pinned 14.5" 300 Blk, I had the barrel shipped to work, pinned/welded and THEN took it home. Never in same "physical location" Why chance it? |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:52:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok... Time to pump the brakes brother... For one, BATFE regulations are a federal issue, not local LE... Second, your painting LE with a very broad brush. I'm a very pro 2A LEO and have several NFA items, and am well versed in NFA law. As far as I am concerned, NFA is not my jurisdiction... --- With that said, your "friend" is asking for trouble for no reason... Just build a SBR or use a brace/blade Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Technically, I believe it is legal... Unless you tell your friends that your intention for buying it is to one day break the law, and then your friend posts it on the Internet. No way would I drive around with that. Cops are fucking retarded, don't know the law, and are frequently looking for an excuse to arrest, confiscate or otherwise harass people during traffic stops. Go with an AR pistol, with a brace. Ok... Time to pump the brakes brother... For one, BATFE regulations are a federal issue, not local LE... Second, your painting LE with a very broad brush. I'm a very pro 2A LEO and have several NFA items, and am well versed in NFA law. As far as I am concerned, NFA is not my jurisdiction... --- With that said, your "friend" is asking for trouble for no reason... Just build a SBR or use a brace/blade This is a tech forum. I meant no offense. My post is not meant as a slight to LEOs at all. I fully support LEOs and the protection they provide our communities. The BS and blaming going on in our society now is shameful... However, I believe what I posted is factual and not opinion. There are lots of cops who do not understand firearm laws (even if you and many other do, what are the odds?). Traffic stops often lead to searches, both legal and illegal. Going to court against the cops is not fun. This grey area is easily avoided. I would advise my friends to avoid this potential drama. In most states, there are less restrictive laws for transporting pistols. Edit I see now that I said cops are retards...by that, I mean the retarded cops who don't know the law are retards. 
I fully appreciate that lots, perhaps even most, cops are awesome people that sacrifice a lot to serve their community. I apologize if what I said before was unclear and offensive toward all LEO. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 9:48:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In many cases, having two pieces of an item is constructive notice that you intend to use them together for illegal purposes. For example, having an AR-style weapon in your gun safe and a Lightning Link in your sox drawer can be construed as 'possession of an unregistered machine gun,' even though they are not assembled. IMO Firepyro's idea is best. Or else suck it up and pay the extra, what, $300 for the license tax stamp, and build a SBR. Quote HistoryQuoted: He doesnt plan on using it and wants to know if he can have them in his truck in 2 separate shrink wrapped packages In many cases, having two pieces of an item is constructive notice that you intend to use them together for illegal purposes. For example, having an AR-style weapon in your gun safe and a Lightning Link in your sox drawer can be construed as 'possession of an unregistered machine gun,' even though they are not assembled. IMO Firepyro's idea is best. Or else suck it up and pay the extra, what, $300 for the license tax stamp, and build a SBR. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 12:08:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Tell him to carry a 16" and keep a hacksaw in the truck. If everything goes to shit he can saw like crazy. If the rifle still functions it will be louder, the flask will be scarier and the accuracy will be similar to a shotgun.
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Posted: 7/19/2016 2:35:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lightning link is in itself considered a machine gun. Doesn't matter if you have any other parts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He doesnt plan on using it and wants to know if he can have them in his truck in 2 separate shrink wrapped packages In many cases, having two pieces of an item is constructive notice that you intend to use them together for illegal purposes. For example, having an AR-style weapon in your gun safe and a Lightning Link in your sox drawer can be construed as 'possession of an unregistered machine gun,' even though they are not assembled. IMO Firepyro's idea is best. Or else suck it up and pay the extra, what, $300 for the license tax stamp, and build a SBR. Thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware of that. But my original statement stands: If you have two parts that, as a whole, can be made into an illegal item (i.e. an "unpapered" SBR), then the law considers them to be a single, illegal unit. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 7:29:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just build an AR pistol and have a brace. Legal and you can travel with it between states. +1 he can always shoulder it or install a real stock in the future |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 10:38:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Whoa, hold the bus.
Is your friend a Clinton? If so, then intent will save them from prosecution. Just sayin' Anyway for us ordinary folk, NO, that would be illegal as possession of the parts needed to make a SBR equals possession of a SBR. The only allowance is if all the pieces have another legal use. So the friend could have a pistol and a rifle in the vehicle, and the shtf senario be swap uppers and lowers If it was me, I would go the pistol option, as it allows the most convenience and carry opportunities in the current non-shtf environment currently |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 12:47:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And why would he depend on a gun that has never been assembled or shot for reliability or accuracy to protect his life? That is mind boggling. This guy ^^ I'm with him.... I dont think there is anything wrong with a 14.5" pinned carbine. even being longer, you will still be able to deploy a 14.5" or even a 16" carbine in less time that it would take to unwrap the BATFE christmas present in the back seat. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 7:22:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote History deploy a 14.5" or even a 16" carbine in less time that it would take to unwrap the BATFE christmas present in the back seat.
LOL that was my thought as well. Either pistol route or 16 carbine and be done with it. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:52:37 PM EDT
[#26]
as much as I dislike the whole "pistol brace" thing, this may be the one time it makes sense. do it.
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Posted: 7/19/2016 10:45:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
as much as I dislike the whole "pistol brace" thing, this may be the one time it makes sense. do it. in Wa, we cant have loaded rifles....put pistols, with a carry permit, and your not STUPID, your gtg. 
So my vote, will always be some type of "Pistol" for a truck gun. My idea of a truck gun though would be something locked in and as secure and hidden as I wanted. Kind of Mad Max all the way
Thinking along those lines, 300 blk with 110gr Barnes, in 40rd Pmags may work fine for a "Truck gun/SHTF"
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Posted: 7/20/2016 6:43:30 AM EDT
[#28]
If short is imperative then why not some bullpup such as a Steyr AUG or Tavor? Then you have a full size rifle barrel and stock in a package as small as an SBR? Then you are not skirting the law. And btw: the answer to your original question is contained in the link to the unfortunate Arkansas individual who tried to play the game and got caught....If I remember correctly, he received 30 months in Club Fed.
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Posted: 7/20/2016 8:14:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Your co-worker will experience SHTF from prison most likely.
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Posted: 7/20/2016 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Seems like a recipe to end up in jail IMO.
Just build a Pistol AR Pistol with Sig Brace or that blade stock. If the world comes crashing down you can swap out the pistol stock for a collapsible carbine stock. Problem solved and no need to risk going to jail. Technically you cant shoulder the sig brace but if you use it to stop a terrorist attack and tag some snackbars im sure the ATF will look the other way on the issue. If not I will personally come bust you out of prison 
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Posted: 7/20/2016 11:50:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If short is imperative then why not some bullpup such as a Steyr AUG or Tavor? Then you have a full size rifle barrel and stock in a package as small as an SBR? Then you are not skirting the law. And btw: the answer to your original question is contained in the link to the unfortunate Arkansas individual who tried to play the game and got caught....If I remember correctly, he received 30 months in Club Fed. I have, and love, a Tavor, and it's my go-to SHTF rifle, but depending on how it is stored it might be kinda bulky for that application. In SHTF I don't really care, but pre-SHTF I'd want a truck gun to be out of sight of potential break-in artists... |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#32]
i agree on the pinned 14.5/7 if short is the goal but i still dont understand the obsession with SBR's for SHTF. you ever shoot one without ears on? velocity is a problem with standard FMJ ammo too.
now if you have a can to throw on there, great but then you have to think about how many rounds yoh can fire before that lube is cooked off and starting to slow the action. i've never fired my suppressed rifles to failure but after 200 rounds its pretty dry and cakey. i can appreciate the need to have compact fire power that can shoot beyond 50yds accurately but in SHTF i dont think 4 extra inches will matter. maybe a krink or p90 but if discretion is needed then a pistol with lots-o-ammo would work better. and in a SHTF, stealth is better. shooting at 100-300 yards probably wont be needed. your threat will be from in close. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:42:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Close threats are exactly where you want short barrels, for maneuverability. You are contradicting yourself. 11.5" barrels in 5.56mm are basically the best compromise between ballistic capability, length, and portability. They perform very well for most situations. 14.5" is about the longest I'd want in 5.56, unless I'm building one for SPR/sniping.
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Posted: 7/24/2016 11:12:10 PM EDT
[#34]
or you want to shoot through armor. Losing 300-400 fps could be the difference between penetrating and not. I'm not saying it's not worth compromising on in many (most?) situations, just pointing out that severely shortening the bbl of 556 is taking away fps from a bullet that kinda needs fps.
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Posted: 7/25/2016 12:14:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Actually firing real black-tip AP is far more important than barrel length.
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Posted: 7/26/2016 2:44:37 AM EDT
[#36]
fps is king, see SP ammo armor penetration youtube vids...
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Posted: 7/27/2016 3:54:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Velocity is king, but ammunition selection has a greater effect than 5" of barrel length.
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:58:58 AM EDT
[#38]
you're probably right, but what kinda mv would one get with m995 and an 11.5" bbl? 2700-2800? that enough to get through lvl 3 armor? at what kind of fps / range would you be unable to penetrate such armor even with AP?
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Posted: 7/28/2016 10:47:30 AM EDT
[#39]
I Googled for a few minutes and didn't find much hard data, but I'm going to guess around 3100 fps firing M995 from an 11.5" barrel. (It develops about 3324 fps through a 20" barrel). It will develop higher velocity than M193 because it's a 52gr projectile. I cannot advise what velocity would render it ineffective against level III armor.
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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:10:22 AM EDT
[#40]
You guys are making this way harder than it is in reality.
Plates cover a small portion of the body and even if you get a round on the plate, it'll knock the wind out of you and probably break some ribs. You most likely won't kill someone but they'd be out of the fight most likely and if it's actually SHTF, they very well could die from fractured ribs etc I would prefer a bonded bullet that will expand so if you hit them in the gut, sboulder, leg, etc it will do enough damage to hopefully get them to bleed out |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 11:30:09 AM EDT
[#41]
If I have to pick one, penetration is better than expansion.
Short rifles are generally better than long rifles. That's the simple answer. In SHTF, combatants hide behind things. This is not limited strictly to body armor. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:11:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys are making this way harder than it is in reality. Plates cover a small portion of the body and even if you get a round on the plate, it'll knock the wind out of you and probably break some ribs. You most likely won't kill someone but they'd be out of the fight most likely and if it's actually SHTF, they very well could die from fractured ribs etc I would prefer a bonded bullet that will expand so if you hit them in the gut, sboulder, leg, etc it will do enough damage to hopefully get them to bleed out +1 Everyone seems to forget the psychological impact on fighting too. Its just as much, if not more, about the software than the hardware.. but then again, I've never trained or been shot at so I have no credibility, just common sense. |
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:52:58 PM EDT
[#43]
i don't discount the idea, but 'counting on' psychologically taking your enemy out of a fight with non-incapacitating hits is sketchy at best. There's no way to know ahead of time if you'll get lucky and get a guy who goes into the fetal and cries for his happy place or if the guy is the opposite, who when hit gets mad and turns into the baddest MFer on the battlefield. Not so sure about cracked ribs through an un-perforated plate either. Never been shot with one on, but it seems like breaking ribs is unlikely unless there is significant backface deform. Seems like it would spread the force out over the entire surface area.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 1:25:53 AM EDT
[#44]
LOL, I just want to know the scenario that involves running an errand or coming home from work and total SHTF taking place during that 30 minute drive...
its Alabama, stick a $200 thutty-thutty or 12 ga behind the seats and keep the AR-15 at home... |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 9:40:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, I just want to know the scenario that involves running an errand or coming home from work and total SHTF taking place during that 30 minute drive... its Alabama, stick a $200 thutty-thutty or 12 ga behind the seats and keep the AR-15 at home... Ask Reginald Denny. |
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Posted: 7/31/2016 6:27:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Parting an unregistered SBR for SHTF, how do you plan on testing it and sighting it in?
I'd take a standard cheap rifle that has been properly tested for reliability and battle field accuracy over your buddies idea. Options i'd consider: AK with folding stock. AR 14.5" P/W X95 (or any bull-pup) |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 5:56:34 PM EDT
[#47]
M855A1 fired through 11.5" barrel penetrating a Level III plate.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_10/467013_.html |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 9:21:36 PM EDT
[#48]
I saw that, pretty impressive. Still, the chances of being shot by that round in shtf is near zero. It's pretty rare and expensive, no?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 10:57:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask Reginald Denny. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, I just want to know the scenario that involves running an errand or coming home from work and total SHTF taking place during that 30 minute drive... its Alabama, stick a $200 thutty-thutty or 12 ga behind the seats and keep the AR-15 at home... Ask Reginald Denny. |
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Posted: 8/6/2016 1:52:57 AM EDT
[#50]
I have a question, semi-related to OPs original question. If a person owns both AR15 rifles and pistols, could having a spare stock laying around be construed as "intent" for the pistols?
My understanding is NO because there is a rifle present, as long as there is at least one rifle present it would keep any spare parts for said rifle as being "intent" for any of the pistols also owned. Am I thinking correctly? |
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