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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:06:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Ammo cost.
I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. |
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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This. |
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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:22:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This. Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. |
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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:31:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Cost of ammo whether factory or reloads and the fact that it doesn't do anything significantly better for me than a 5.56.
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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:35:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I have and enjoy both, but the only thing 300 does for me is being quieter.
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Posted: 5/14/2016 11:42:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Standard ARFCOM answer, get both.
They both have a roll to fill, whether that's for plinking, hunting or self defense. I just finished my first BLK build and I love it. I also love my Noveske and BCM 5.56 SBR's. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 7:41:24 AM EDT
[#7]
After shooting a .300 BLK SBR it's hard to go back to 5.56 SBRs. But as others have said the ammo cost is the biggest hurdle. .300 BLK will probably get me to start reloading.
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Posted: 5/15/2016 7:42:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This. Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. Quoted:
I have and enjoy both, but the only thing 300 does for me is being quieter. Both of these. I prefer 300blk all day but even reloading cheap pulled 190gr pills I'm still twice the cost of a 556. I still shoot 300blk more than 556 now as I only have a few 556 rifles now and a ton of 300blk rifles but the cost is still in the back of my mind. I just bought a Scorpion for a cheap subsonic plinker. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 8:05:07 AM EDT
[#9]
I may be the biggest 300blk fanboy on ARFCOM, and I get why people stick with 5.56.
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Posted: 5/15/2016 8:09:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Other than being quiet I'm pretty meh on 300. I don't shoot my 300 that much. It's kind of fun but I still shoot my short 5.56 more
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Posted: 5/15/2016 8:49:44 AM EDT
[#11]
300 BLK is more expensive, but it's coming down in price. I just bought a bunch of 556 green tip for about 38 cents a round shipped. I also just got a bunch of 300 BLK subs for 48 cents a round shipped.
That's close enough for me to shoot BLK all day long. http://palmettoprojectiles.com/products/subsonic-300-blackout-ammo?variant=17532072325 |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 9:24:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This. Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 9:36:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This. Yeah. No matter how much I'd like a 300blk sbr. Those 220gr bullets alone are expensive. And i've got a ton of resized 300blk brass. I'd rather shoot a 9mm sbr. Yep. If someone else was laying the bill, 300 all day long. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 10:11:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Yeah. I've been researching .300 since I've started dabbling with suppressors, and while it's neat for the wow factor, it is an expensive little thing to feed.
The big and heavy subsonics (which are the coolest to shoot anyways...if it's gonna be supersonic, might as well shoot 5.56) are right at a dollar a pull for loaded ammo. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 10:28:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I'm struggling to understand the popularity of the Mk18 platform in 5.56 when 300 blackout is an option. If you don't factor in the cost of ammo, why would someone shoot a Mk18 over a 9" 300 blackout SBR? In my eyes you are getting a heavier projectile, better suppression, and smaller overall length. These comments are meant to be constructive, I'm interested in a 5.56 SBR but trying to understand the pros vs 300blk. If you don't factor in the cost of the car, why doesn't everyone drive a Ferrari? If you shoot twice a year, 100 rounds each time, ammo cost might not be a factor for you. If you shoot thousands of rounds per year, you'd have to be rich or stupid to ignore ammo cost. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 11:39:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ammo cost. I know you are trying to ignore it, but you simply cannot. This |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 11:40:12 AM EDT
[#17]
The biggest problem that I have with the 300 Blackout is that it mostly* sucks ass for shooting people. If I'm going to drop $200 for a tax stamp and all the parts for a decent build, it's not going to JUST be a range toy. I want it to be able to pull double duty as a home defense weapon.
300 Blackout is currently unsuitable in that role. The subsonic loads are no more effective than small-caliber FMJ pistol loads. The supersonic loads are loaded with projectiles designed for use in the 308 Winchester. 300 Blackout doesn't come close enough to 308 Winchester velocities, so the projectiles fail to expand in any meaningful way (or not at all). *There's only one load that's really suitable for shooting humans, and that's the Barnes copper bullet. That's one load from one manufacturer that's suitable... although Lehigh Defense recently announced a copper bullet that should be suitable. In the end, I want the ammunition market to mature to the point where there are supersonic loads suitable for defense from a number of manufacturers before I'll jump on the 300 Blackout bandwagon. Until then, I'll make due with 5.56. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 12:05:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Cost and availability of ammo are the top two reasons to go 5.56 over .300.
But this is arfcom so you need both. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest problem that I have with the 300 Blackout is that it mostly* sucks ass for shooting people. If I'm going to drop $200 for a tax stamp and all the parts for a decent build, it's not going to JUST be a range toy. I want it to be able to pull double duty as a home defense weapon. 300 Blackout is currently unsuitable in that role. The subsonic loads are no more effective than small-caliber FMJ pistol loads. The supersonic loads are loaded with projectiles designed for use in the 308 Winchester. 300 Blackout doesn't come close enough to 308 Winchester velocities, so the projectiles fail to expand in any meaningful way (or not at all). *There's only one load that's really suitable for shooting humans, and that's the Barnes copper bullet. That's one load from one manufacturer that's suitable... although Lehigh Defense recently announced a copper bullet that should be suitable. In the end, I want the ammunition market to mature to the point where there are supersonic loads suitable for defense from a number of manufacturers before I'll jump on the 300 Blackout bandwagon. Until then, I'll make due with 5.56. 
.300BLK can kill deer like nobody's business but it's not suitable for killing humans? |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 1:07:24 PM EDT
[#20]
cost cost cost, and sometimes availability
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Posted: 5/15/2016 1:32:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest problem that I have with the 300 Blackout is that it mostly* sucks ass for shooting people. If I'm going to drop $200 for a tax stamp and all the parts for a decent build, it's not going to JUST be a range toy. I want it to be able to pull double duty as a home defense weapon. 300 Blackout is currently unsuitable in that role. The subsonic loads are no more effective than small-caliber FMJ pistol loads. The supersonic loads are loaded with projectiles designed for use in the 308 Winchester. 300 Blackout doesn't come close enough to 308 Winchester velocities, so the projectiles fail to expand in any meaningful way (or not at all). *There's only one load that's really suitable for shooting humans, and that's the Barnes copper bullet. That's one load from one manufacturer that's suitable... although Lehigh Defense recently announced a copper bullet that should be suitable. In the end, I want the ammunition market to mature to the point where there are supersonic loads suitable for defense from a number of manufacturers before I'll jump on the 300 Blackout bandwagon. Until then, I'll make due with 5.56. I am not going to say your post lacks accuracy, but I will say your information is a bit off. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 3:38:08 PM EDT
[#22]
about the only thing shooting a .300blk does for me over shooting .223/5.56 sbr is wear my wallet out faster.
of coarse it does many other things for me such as .223 not legal to hunt, better terminals ect... i was speaking from a pure shooting perspective. |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 3:41:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not going to say your post lacks accuracy, but I will say your information is a bit off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The biggest problem that I have with the 300 Blackout is that it mostly* sucks ass for shooting people. If I'm going to drop $200 for a tax stamp and all the parts for a decent build, it's not going to JUST be a range toy. I want it to be able to pull double duty as a home defense weapon. 300 Blackout is currently unsuitable in that role. The subsonic loads are no more effective than small-caliber FMJ pistol loads. The supersonic loads are loaded with projectiles designed for use in the 308 Winchester. 300 Blackout doesn't come close enough to 308 Winchester velocities, so the projectiles fail to expand in any meaningful way (or not at all). *There's only one load that's really suitable for shooting humans, and that's the Barnes copper bullet. That's one load from one manufacturer that's suitable... although Lehigh Defense recently announced a copper bullet that should be suitable. In the end, I want the ammunition market to mature to the point where there are supersonic loads suitable for defense from a number of manufacturers before I'll jump on the 300 Blackout bandwagon. Until then, I'll make due with 5.56. I am not going to say your post lacks accuracy, but I will say your information is a bit off. i would! in fact i would say he has no clue about the terminal ballistics of the super loads. 
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Posted: 5/15/2016 11:10:08 PM EDT
[#24]
.300 Blkout is quieter in subsonic, at which point you may as well be shooting a pistol caliber. Ammunition cost & avaialbilty of quality .300Blkout make it a wild cat chambering. Plenty of barrier blind loads for SBR that can be had in 5.56 that will get the job done.
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Posted: 5/16/2016 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Id rather shoot 556 and 9mm subs. Cheaper.
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Posted: 5/16/2016 2:57:02 PM EDT
[#26]
As others have said, the primary reason is cost. My SBR started as an 8" 300 blackout that was/is super fun to shoot, especially with subs (I've only ever shot it suppressed), but for about $.75 for "cheap" plinking 220 gr rounds, whenever I shoot it I spend more time lamenting the hole in my wallet vice enjoying the range session. So, I built a 5.5" 9mm conversion for my SBR so I can enjoy an SBR but shoot for cheaper and still enjoy super quiet shots with subsonic ammo and a suppressor. Most recently I got a 12.5" 5.56 upper because it provides a great balance of length vs effectiveness for the 5.56 round, and ammo isn't too expensive and is fun to shoot.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 10:24:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i would! in fact i would say he has no clue about the terminal ballistics of the super loads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The biggest problem that I have with the 300 Blackout is that it mostly* sucks ass for shooting people. If I'm going to drop $200 for a tax stamp and all the parts for a decent build, it's not going to JUST be a range toy. I want it to be able to pull double duty as a home defense weapon. 300 Blackout is currently unsuitable in that role. The subsonic loads are no more effective than small-caliber FMJ pistol loads. The supersonic loads are loaded with projectiles designed for use in the 308 Winchester. 300 Blackout doesn't come close enough to 308 Winchester velocities, so the projectiles fail to expand in any meaningful way (or not at all). *There's only one load that's really suitable for shooting humans, and that's the Barnes copper bullet. That's one load from one manufacturer that's suitable... although Lehigh Defense recently announced a copper bullet that should be suitable. In the end, I want the ammunition market to mature to the point where there are supersonic loads suitable for defense from a number of manufacturers before I'll jump on the 300 Blackout bandwagon. Until then, I'll make due with 5.56. I am not going to say your post lacks accuracy, but I will say your information is a bit off. i would! in fact i would say he has no clue about the terminal ballistics of the super loads. OK, I'll bite. What are the best supersonic factory loads and where can I find the gel tests? I've been a semi-casual observer of the 300 Blackout. I've found precious little documentation and what I have found has been less than good. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 4:45:23 PM EDT
[#28]
its not that hard bro. google is your freind.
https://www.google.com/#q=300%20blackout%20ballistic%20gel%20test&rct=j some of my picks are: 110gr. barnes black tip 110gr. vmax 125gr. nosler BT 130gr. SOST there are several others as well so you can see .300blk will get the job done. i would say there is even more than the Barrier Blind loads for .223 so its utter nonsense to say its unsuitable as a defensive round. pick your favorite ammo brand and start poppin'. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 9:19:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Standard ARFCOM answer, get both. They both have a roll to fill, whether that's for plinking, hunting or self defense.... I also love my Noveske .... same same 8" noveske 300blk 10.5" noveske 5.56 |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 11:11:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
same same 8" noveske 300blk 10.5" noveske 5.56 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Standard ARFCOM answer, get both. They both have a roll to fill, whether that's for plinking, hunting or self defense.... I also love my Noveske .... same same 8" noveske 300blk 10.5" noveske 5.56 Mine are a 8.5" Kak barreled that I built myself and a 10.5" DSG complete upper. I shoot the 300 more often but I also haven't gotten another mount to put my can on the 5.56 so that my change. As much as I shoot the cost difference in ammo doesn't bother me. I also took up reloading to offset some of the costs. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 11:25:10 AM EDT
[#31]
I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk.
I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test 
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Posted: 5/19/2016 11:28:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Planning on starting to reload for my new 300, as i have been gerenating factory brass for it for a few months and have lots of 223 brass ready to be cut. Are there any negative side effects on the rifle if using the powder coated lead projectiles? I've only ever shot plated centerfire anything. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 11:46:43 AM EDT
[#34]
are those the palmetto projectiles linked earlier in the thread?
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Posted: 5/19/2016 11:58:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
are those the palmetto projectiles linked earlier in the thread? No, these are cast Lee 230gr bullets that have been powder coated. They cost me basically nothing (lead is free and powder coating is $4 to cast 2k rounds). |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 3:34:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test  https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:48:50 PM EDT
[#37]
If you want to hunt with a SBR, then 300 BO. If you want suppressed, then 300 BO. If you want HD SBR, 300BO. If you want a SBR to plink cheap, 556.
If you want to do both, get 2 uppers. That said, if you reload, 300BO subsonic suppressed aint that exspensive. Shooting at 50 yds gets old anyway. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:18:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to hunt with a SBR, then 300 BO. If you want suppressed, then 300 BO. If you want HD SBR, 300BO. If you want a SBR to plink cheap, 556. If you want to do both, get 2 uppers. That said, if you reload, 300BO subsonic suppressed aint that exspensive. Shooting at 50 yds gets old anyway. 
If you want .300, then cool. But to say that 5.56 is just for plinking and not home defense or hunting, you're full of it. And yes, compared to 223, it is that much more expensive. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In red, it is pretty disingenuous to say that when not everyone has the space or the time cast in bullets and there is no such thing as a boolit; this is tech, not GD. So yes, when you critically think, cost is still an issue and it is cheaper still to shoot or reload with .224 projectiles. Now other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. Speaking of uninformed, that wasn't a typo. Cast bullets are called boolits. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 7:17:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. I can shoot more, pay less, have less weight, kill with a devastating round, and reloading doesn't become an issue But it doesn't make it cost effective or even better. It just means that is your preference. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 7:27:20 PM EDT
[#41]
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When you post actual facts and not emotional sentiment, we can talk. Until then, the 5.56 SBR does everything I need, is NOT disingenuous unlike the sentimental attachments of those who fan for 300 and make excuses without being critical in their thinking. It ain't cheap, it isn't cost effective, it has less range, but oh no it's so quiet so it must be superior111111 I can shoot more, pay less, have less weight, kill with a devastating round, and reloading doesn't become an issue But it doesn't make it cost effective or even better. It just means that is your preference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. I can shoot more, pay less, have less weight, kill with a devastating round, and reloading doesn't become an issue But it doesn't make it cost effective or even better. It just means that is your preference. I posted the ballistics gel test, that's about as factual as it can get. That's the raw data. Look up a 55gr sp and tell me it's better? It is a fact that the terminal performance of the 110gr Barnes is better than any 55gr bullet. It is a fact it is quieter with or without a suppressor. It is a fact that the barrel length has less of an effect on the velocity profile compared to 223. It is a fact that the case and powder weigh less than 223 and the only added weight is the better performing bullet. You stick with price as the downfall of the 300, that's fine. But when somebody is kicking in my door I want a 300 blackout on the other side because it is a fact that it is better for sbr than 223. But I'm sure you're going to be thinking about that $0.10/bullet you saved? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 7:28:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. Speaking of uninformed, that wasn't a typo. Cast bullets are called boolits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. Speaking of uninformed, that wasn't a typo. Cast bullets are called boolits. I've really liked reading through the constructive points in this post so far, but I believe you've made the best argument here. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 7:46:15 PM EDT
[#43]
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I posted the ballistics gel test, that's about as factual as it can get. That's the raw data. Look up a 55gr sp and tell me it's better? It is a fact that the terminal performance of the 110gr Barnes is better than any 55gr bullet. It is a fact it is quieter with or without a suppressor. It is a fact that the barrel length has less of an effect on the velocity profile compared to 223. It is a fact that the case and powder weigh less than 223 and the only added weight is the better performing bullet. You stick with price as the downfall of the 300, that's fine. But when somebody is kicking in my door I want a 300 blackout on the other side because it is a fact that it is better for sbr than 223. But I'm sure you're going to be thinking about that $0.10/bullet you saved? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I started off with a 223 sbr and have since converted both of mine to 300 Blk. I absolutely love it. First of all, it is quieter. Much, much quieter. I'm not talking about with a suppressor, I'm talking about with normal ammo and a normal barrel. 223 SBRs sound like a flash bang 2 feet in front of your face while 300 just sounds normal. Throw in a suppressor and it's no comparison. Next is performance. There is simply no 223 projectile that even remotely compares with the performance of the Barnes tac-tx 110gr bullet. The ballistics gel performance is outstanding, damn near blows the gel apart. 30 rounds of that is one of the deadliest home defense scenarios I can think of. Cost is obvious an issue, but that doesn't stop people from shooting AR10s. I can reload the 300 for blackout 30% more using the speer TNT compared with Hornady 55gr sp. Thats not a big deal for me for plinking. I don't care about how much the Barnes ammo is, I use it for HD only. It's disingenuous to say the 300 is too expensive because the subsonic rounds are expensive because you don't even have that option with the 223. That doesn't even make any sense.... If you are really worried about cost start reloading and cast your own boolits with powder coating and you pay virtually nothing. It costs me $0.05/rd to reload my 300 subsonic (lead is free, only pay for primer and powder). So to me, comparing SBRs in 223 and 300 it is no comparison whatsoever. I still prefer 223 in a full size platform and for precision shooting, but for SBR I'll never own a 223 again. Barnes Tac-tx ballistics gel test https://youtu.be/nsRUfA1_AlwNow other thing, cool no comparison to you, that is just your opinion. There is still a vast difference and ,300 BO doesn't do anything better than a .223 for me because one has a rainbow trajectory while the other is more flatter, so hands down, there is no comparison as the 223 shines here. My mags weigh less, again .223 shines here too. Keep your boutique round, you like it so good for you. It still doesn't make it better though to those of us the side with 223. And yes I load .308 but those are not for rocks and general plinking because SMK's no matter what will be expensive in any caliber size. Did you finish readying the sentence you quoted? I said it's disingenuous to say the subsonic round are to expensive compared to the 223 when the 223 can't even shoot subsonic. You said the 223 can do everything better than the 300, I significantly disagree based on the point above. The rainbow trajectory is a moot point, we are talking about SBR for home defense here... I mentioned cost of cast boolits because that is a way to offset the high price of the subsonic rounds, so then the only negative is not a negative. You could choose not to shoot the subsonic, and you would still be better with a 300 blkout. In fact, find me one thing the 223 does better in sbr? Anything. How can you mention weight too, the 300 may be heavier but that's because it has a bigger, more devastating bullet... I'll take performance over a few ounces of weight any day. Call it a boutique round all you want, doesn't hurt my feelings. But it makes you looked uninformed. I can shoot more, pay less, have less weight, kill with a devastating round, and reloading doesn't become an issue But it doesn't make it cost effective or even better. It just means that is your preference. I posted the ballistics gel test, that's about as factual as it can get. That's the raw data. Look up a 55gr sp and tell me it's better? It is a fact that the terminal performance of the 110gr Barnes is better than any 55gr bullet. It is a fact it is quieter with or without a suppressor. It is a fact that the barrel length has less of an effect on the velocity profile compared to 223. It is a fact that the case and powder weigh less than 223 and the only added weight is the better performing bullet. You stick with price as the downfall of the 300, that's fine. But when somebody is kicking in my door I want a 300 blackout on the other side because it is a fact that it is better for sbr than 223. But I'm sure you're going to be thinking about that $0.10/bullet you saved? Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 8:57:16 PM EDT
[#44]
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 9:25:46 PM EDT
[#45]
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lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. this argument is as dumb as 9x19 or .45 debates. Both will kill, choose wisely. But to say either or is better is seriously
I've done the research, 5.56 makes the most sense to me. It isn't a silver bullet. 300 BO is not a silver bullet either. I tried it once, was nothing special and it costs more. It didn't do anything better for me that .223 already does and gives me more range with better ballistics and it's cheaper all around. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 9:32:07 PM EDT
[#46]
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lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. You're wasting your time buddy... He doesnt "use just any soft point." And since the mil doesn't use it, it can't be good... Like 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 AR10, 6mm Grendel, etc. All of which dominate the 223 ballistically. But 223 must be the best because the mil uses it to kill bad people. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 9:41:31 PM EDT
[#47]
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You're wasting your time buddy... He doesnt "use just any soft point." And since the mil doesn't use it, it can't be good... Like 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 AR10, 6mm Grendel, etc. All of which dominate the 223 ballistically. But 223 must be the best because the mil uses it to kill bad people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. You're wasting your time buddy... He doesnt "use just any soft point." And since the mil doesn't use it, it can't be good... Like 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 AR10, 6mm Grendel, etc. All of which dominate the 223 ballistically. But 223 must be the best because the mil uses it to kill bad people. It ain't happening. Deal with it. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 10:10:44 PM EDT
[#48]
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And there it is, the real reasoning for this argument to begin with, a crusade to change us "heathens" of our ways and conversion to only shoot calibers what you deem fit. We like what you hate and it bothers you enough to go at lengths to change. It ain't happening. Deal with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. You're wasting your time buddy... He doesnt "use just any soft point." And since the mil doesn't use it, it can't be good... Like 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 AR10, 6mm Grendel, etc. All of which dominate the 223 ballistically. But 223 must be the best because the mil uses it to kill bad people. It ain't happening. Deal with it. More like you show someone overwhelming evidence that they are wrong and they run around with their fingers in their ears yelling "the mil uses it, they can't be wrong." Look at the facts we are showing you. I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just stating facts that it is superior IN AN SBR. I'm not talking about long range shooting the mil does, I'm talking close quarters. It is better, that is a fact. Yes, it's more expensive. Who cares, it's better in every way, shape and form for THIS specific application. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 10:21:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Wow. I see that GSL showed up to poop in the thread... shocking.
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Posted: 5/19/2016 10:28:26 PM EDT
[#50]
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More like you show someone overwhelming evidence that they are wrong and they run around with their fingers in their ears yelling "the mil uses it, they can't be wrong." Look at the facts we are showing you. I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just stating facts that it is superior IN AN SBR. I'm not talking about long range shooting the mil does, I'm talking close quarters. It is better, that is a fact. Yes, it's more expensive. Who cares, it's better in every way, shape and form for THIS specific application. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You couldn't be more further from the truth. there are plenty of tests confirming that 223 is devastating. Tell me, how many 300 BO has killed bad guys overseas? Oh wait... lol! sure there are. there is also plenty proving .300blk is more so.
how many? more than you will ever know. You're wasting your time buddy... He doesnt "use just any soft point." And since the mil doesn't use it, it can't be good... Like 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 AR10, 6mm Grendel, etc. All of which dominate the 223 ballistically. But 223 must be the best because the mil uses it to kill bad people. It ain't happening. Deal with it. More like you show someone overwhelming evidence that they are wrong and they run around with their fingers in their ears yelling "the mil uses it, they can't be wrong." Look at the facts we are showing you. I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just stating facts that it is superior IN AN SBR. I'm not talking about long range shooting the mil does, I'm talking close quarters. It is better, that is a fact. Yes, it's more expensive. Who cares, it's better in every way, shape and form for THIS specific application. So no, .300 BO in an SBR is not better. If it was better then the LE SRT and SWAT teams would be all over it. But they are not, they use SBR's in 5.56. But hey, facts are only facts when it suits your missionary crusade, eh? Having a caliber for longer ranges and for CQB presents itself as a better caliber and that is a FACT that alludes you . Or in your mind people only shoot at you inside buildings and only in CQB distances ?
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