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Posted: 11/28/2015 7:02:46 PM EDT
I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 7:03:47 PM EDT
[#1]
like 50% of the guys in the MK18 thread in AR discussions.
I would do an adjustable
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 7:10:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Those barrels are known to be overgassed. An adjustable gas block or a Baby Govnah is the way to go.

If the silencer is never coming off, I would 100% recommend a Baby Govnah ported very small. If it's going to be used on and off, I would either use a Baby Govnah ported a bit larger or an adjustable.
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 7:11:15 PM EDT
[#3]

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Quoted:


like 50% of the guys in the MK18 thread in AR discussions.

I would do an adjustable
View Quote
Thanks, I'll check that thread out, it looks like exactly what I need to know.



 
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 7:19:42 PM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:


Those barrels are known to be overgassed. An adjustable gas block or a Baby Govnah is the way to go.



If the silencer is never coming off, I would 100% recommend a Baby Govnah ported very small. If it's going to be used on and off, I would either use a Baby Govnah ported a bit larger or an adjustable.
View Quote
I plan on only using it with a suppressor only. Thanks for the advice, I'd never heard of the Baby Govnah.



 
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 9:42:47 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I plan on only using it with a suppressor only. Thanks for the advice, I'd never heard of the Baby Govnah.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Those barrels are known to be overgassed. An adjustable gas block or a Baby Govnah is the way to go.

If the silencer is never coming off, I would 100% recommend a Baby Govnah ported very small. If it's going to be used on and off, I would either use a Baby Govnah ported a bit larger or an adjustable.
I plan on only using it with a suppressor only. Thanks for the advice, I'd never heard of the Baby Govnah.
 

The owner posts here, Amphibian.
Link Posted: 11/28/2015 10:57:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Check the actual port size.  I never did check myself, but someone said that these were not drilled bigger as they were probably government overruns instead of what they commercially sold.  That is purely hearsay, but either way, I used an Odin works adjustable gas block on mine along with an Odin works 9.5" rail and it runs great.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 12:19:27 AM EDT
[#7]
I use a seekins adjustable on mine.  I have it set with the minimum amount of gas to cycle Independence 5.56 ammo.  It cycles fine with whatever I run through it with or without can.

Link Posted: 11/29/2015 2:57:26 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
I plan on only using it with a suppressor only. Thanks for the advice, I'd never heard of the Baby Govnah.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Those barrels are known to be overgassed. An adjustable gas block or a Baby Govnah is the way to go.

If the silencer is never coming off, I would 100% recommend a Baby Govnah ported very small. If it's going to be used on and off, I would either use a Baby Govnah ported a bit larger or an adjustable.
I plan on only using it with a suppressor only. Thanks for the advice, I'd never heard of the Baby Govnah.
 


It's the most underrated gas block out there. I recently rebuilt my 10.5" with one and I'm really impressed. Zero gas to the face, cycles smoothly, and it weighs a fraction of some adjustable blocks, but with no moving parts.

Essentially it's giving the barrel a port size of your choice. They come 0.042" from the factory, I did 0.049" because it's my home defense gun and I wanted ultimate reliability. In reality, 0.042" probably would've been fine.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 3:50:19 AM EDT
[#9]
I just run the dd 10.3 barrel with a dd low profile gas block. Mine runs fine. Mated it with a MI 9" rail and YHM phantom Ti suppressor.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 8:25:00 AM EDT
[#10]
DD 10.3 with FSB and SDN6, no problems yet. Using 10w-30 motor oil for lube.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 9:33:26 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm a fan of the baby govnah too...I don't like adding moving parts.  I just wish they had 'em for 0.625" journals.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 1:22:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.
View Quote


No issues, H2 buffer, SDN6 can.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 1:38:43 PM EDT
[#13]
I run mine with an H2 buffer and SOCOM 556RC, no problems.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 3:14:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Run my SPECWAR on my DD 10.3" without issues. I run an Stag H2 Buffer
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 5:52:20 PM EDT
[#15]
H3 buffer and M42k no issues
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 6:35:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.
View Quote


Is it the sale western sports barrel?
If so those barrels are not over gassed.


You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 7:48:04 PM EDT
[#17]

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Quoted:
Is it the sale western sports barrel?

If so those barrels are not over gassed.





You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.




Is it the sale western sports barrel?

If so those barrels are not over gassed.





You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?



 
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 8:17:39 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.


Is it the sale western sports barrel?
If so those barrels are not over gassed.


You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?
 


Those barrels were 2010 mil production and did not have the enlarged gas port but the actual mil spec gas port. It was late 2011 early 2012 that DD went with the enlarged gas port to get everyone using cheap ammo to stop blaming the gun.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 9:33:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?
 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.


Is it the sale western sports barrel?
If so those barrels are not over gassed.


You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?
 


$150 barrel right?

It's worth double that now  

I have two of them they're fantastic.
You don't need an adjustable gas block.
Link Posted: 11/29/2015 10:03:51 PM EDT
[#20]

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Quoted:
$150 barrel right?



It's worth double that now  



I have two of them they're fantastic.

You don't need an adjustable gas block.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

I bought one of the barrels back when they were on sale, and finally getting around to building an SBR. Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it? Is it best to use an adjustable gas block? Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.




Is it the sale western sports barrel?

If so those barrels are not over gassed.





You do not need an adjustable gas block  like you do with the commercial dd barrels.
Yes, I cant remember when it was, but it was from Western sports when they had them really cheap, and someone posted the deal. Maybe 6 months ago approx?

 




$150 barrel right?



It's worth double that now  



I have two of them they're fantastic.

You don't need an adjustable gas block.
Yes. I'm just getting around to building it.



 
Link Posted: 12/2/2015 9:51:01 AM EDT
[#21]
DD 10.3 upper (bought in 2015), H3 buffer, Wolf extra power spring, Gemtech Adjustable BCG and Gemtech Trek.  

Bar none THE smoothest shooting rifle i've ever built/put together. Highly recommend their BCG.  For those of you that run muzzle brakes and have really flat shooting rifles, well this rifle performs the same just with a can.  :)

Link Posted: 12/3/2015 6:38:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 6:46:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That is the primary reason to go adjustable....gas block or in your case BCG.  Either way controlling the gas will result in:
1.  much smoother recoil impulse which equals less disturbance of the site picture for faster, accurate follow up shots.
2.  less fouling getting into the action which then means more rounds downrange before having to stop and clean.

Again, as I've stated many times in the past.  Going adjustable with a gas block or BCG or gas tube is NOT NEEDED.  Your gun most likely will 'function' without going adjustable.
The video below shows the difference of just using an H3 buffer and Red Sprinco spring vs controlling the gas.
Again, gun FUNCTIONS in all modes whether regulated or not but the difference is obvious in cyclic rate and if you shot it you could clearly feel it being much smoother and little to no gas in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWbEo_z_fs
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
DD 10.3 upper (bought in 2015), H3 buffer, Wolf extra power spring, Gemtech Adjustable BCG and Gemtech Trek.  

Bar none THE smoothest shooting rifle i've ever built/put together. Highly recommend their BCG.  For those of you that run muzzle brakes and have really flat shooting rifles, well this rifle performs the same just with a can.  :)

That is the primary reason to go adjustable....gas block or in your case BCG.  Either way controlling the gas will result in:
1.  much smoother recoil impulse which equals less disturbance of the site picture for faster, accurate follow up shots.
2.  less fouling getting into the action which then means more rounds downrange before having to stop and clean.

Again, as I've stated many times in the past.  Going adjustable with a gas block or BCG or gas tube is NOT NEEDED.  Your gun most likely will 'function' without going adjustable.
The video below shows the difference of just using an H3 buffer and Red Sprinco spring vs controlling the gas.
Again, gun FUNCTIONS in all modes whether regulated or not but the difference is obvious in cyclic rate and if you shot it you could clearly feel it being much smoother and little to no gas in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWbEo_z_fs
 


But in the original posters case, he does NOT need or should get an adjustable gas block with his barrel.

Though anyone with a commercial DD 10.3" barrel should definitely consider getting your gas block, because those are some super overgassed monsters.
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 7:55:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 8:08:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


But in the original posters case, he does NOT need or should get an adjustable gas block with his barrel.

Though anyone with a commercial DD 10.3" barrel should definitely consider getting your gas block, because those are some super overgassed monsters.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DD 10.3 upper (bought in 2015), H3 buffer, Wolf extra power spring, Gemtech Adjustable BCG and Gemtech Trek.  

Bar none THE smoothest shooting rifle i've ever built/put together. Highly recommend their BCG.  For those of you that run muzzle brakes and have really flat shooting rifles, well this rifle performs the same just with a can.  :)

That is the primary reason to go adjustable....gas block or in your case BCG.  Either way controlling the gas will result in:
1.  much smoother recoil impulse which equals less disturbance of the site picture for faster, accurate follow up shots.
2.  less fouling getting into the action which then means more rounds downrange before having to stop and clean.

Again, as I've stated many times in the past.  Going adjustable with a gas block or BCG or gas tube is NOT NEEDED.  Your gun most likely will 'function' without going adjustable.
The video below shows the difference of just using an H3 buffer and Red Sprinco spring vs controlling the gas.
Again, gun FUNCTIONS in all modes whether regulated or not but the difference is obvious in cyclic rate and if you shot it you could clearly feel it being much smoother and little to no gas in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWbEo_z_fs
 


But in the original posters case, he does NOT need or should get an adjustable gas block with his barrel.

Though anyone with a commercial DD 10.3" barrel should definitely consider getting your gas block, because those are some super overgassed monsters.


Agreed. Mine functioned with its factory gas block, but, even with an A5 RE (H2) the bolt was slamming back HARD when suppressed. I could have left it alone and it would have continued to function. I opted for an adjustable gas block and have zero regrets about it. It was an immediate and very noticeable difference in bolt speed and shooting comfort.
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 9:22:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I don't see the word 'need' in his first post.  He just asks, is it 'best' to use an adjustable.  That is subjective.  I also tried to stress in my post that he does NOT need it either.
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be argumentative here.  I know some of the regulars here may be tired of seeing my posts but many of the new people don't use the search button and don't know all these technical details.

I am chiming in here since 'jsstritz' posted his great results with the Gemtech BCG which is controlling the gas.  

So many times people state how everything works without going adjustable and as mentioned, 'function' wise it usually does.  It is the benefits of going adjustable that are not really stressed much which is what I was trying to inform the OP on.

That said, in my testing I've seen approximately 30RPM difference in full auto between a DD .070 and .082 port size (running M855).  If you use a strong enough extractor spring and ejector spring you don't NEED to go adjustable gas for even a commercial DD barrel either....and that is coming from a company selling adjustable gas blocks (me).  




 
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Quoted:

But in the original posters case, he does NOT need or should get an adjustable gas block with his barrel.

Though anyone with a commercial DD 10.3" barrel should definitely consider getting your gas block, because those are some super overgassed monsters.

I don't see the word 'need' in his first post.  He just asks, is it 'best' to use an adjustable.  That is subjective.  I also tried to stress in my post that he does NOT need it either.
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be argumentative here.  I know some of the regulars here may be tired of seeing my posts but many of the new people don't use the search button and don't know all these technical details.

I am chiming in here since 'jsstritz' posted his great results with the Gemtech BCG which is controlling the gas.  

So many times people state how everything works without going adjustable and as mentioned, 'function' wise it usually does.  It is the benefits of going adjustable that are not really stressed much which is what I was trying to inform the OP on.

That said, in my testing I've seen approximately 30RPM difference in full auto between a DD .070 and .082 port size (running M855).  If you use a strong enough extractor spring and ejector spring you don't NEED to go adjustable gas for even a commercial DD barrel either....and that is coming from a company selling adjustable gas blocks (me).  




 


No, I'm not trying to argue either.
Just don't want to confuse the original poster.

That being said, your gas block is awesome. Probably the best option for a DD 10.3" commercial barrel.
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 10:41:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 10:49:40 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
Even if you think about a milspec barrel with a .070" port, I have already proven that when suppressed, the same configuration runs with a .049" gas port size (Saker or Specwar or Gemtech or AAC M42000).  So even if you had a milspec port you are using a gas port approximately 142% larger (167% larger for a .082" port) than required to operate that firearm which is ported for unsuppressed usage.  There is no free lunch.  Yes it will work but it will be a rougher ride with excessive fouling coming into the action.  This is clearly demonstrated from the videos with over 200RPM increase in cyclic rate (even with a .070" port) and excess gas coming out of the ejection port.  
Again, not required as seen in my videos even at .082 my DD MK18 runs but I also have a strong extractor and ejector spring in the bolt.  If your extractor spring isn't strong enough with a port that large and not controlling the gas, you are sure to have malfunctions.  When controlling the gas, I can get away with a standard extractor / ejector spring with no issues.
 
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Quoted:

No, I'm not trying to argue either.
Just don't want to confuse the original poster.

That being said, your gas block is awesome. Probably the best option for a DD 10.3" commercial barrel.
Even if you think about a milspec barrel with a .070" port, I have already proven that when suppressed, the same configuration runs with a .049" gas port size (Saker or Specwar or Gemtech or AAC M42000).  So even if you had a milspec port you are using a gas port approximately 142% larger (167% larger for a .082" port) than required to operate that firearm which is ported for unsuppressed usage.  There is no free lunch.  Yes it will work but it will be a rougher ride with excessive fouling coming into the action.  This is clearly demonstrated from the videos with over 200RPM increase in cyclic rate (even with a .070" port) and excess gas coming out of the ejection port.  
Again, not required as seen in my videos even at .082 my DD MK18 runs but I also have a strong extractor and ejector spring in the bolt.  If your extractor spring isn't strong enough with a port that large and not controlling the gas, you are sure to have malfunctions.  When controlling the gas, I can get away with a standard extractor / ejector spring with no issues.
 



I highly doubt it's reliable with all ammo at .049.

As I said I have this barrel and the commercial one.
It runs great. I would not get anew adjustable gas block for it.
No excess gas to the face like the commercial barrel.
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 11:31:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 4:44:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Anybody have any problems with the gas block that came with it?

Is it best to use an adjustable gas block?

Would like to hear how you have yours set up successfully, size rail etc.  Thanks.
View Quote



It's overgassed.

It's always best to use an adjustable gas block when shooting suppressed, regardless of barrel. That's not always done because some people can't afford an adjustable gas block, don't want to spend the money, or plain old don't care enough to use one, but it's still best to use an adjustable gas block when shooting suppressed.

MicroMOA Govnah under a MK18 rail. It is very tight. I did not need to, but I opted to slightly file down two surfaces inside the rail so the gas block fits better. I use the .052 setting when suppressed.
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 4:51:39 PM EDT
[#31]
They should make an FSB that's got the adjustable stuff built in. I'd buy that and swap it with my current one, on two rifles.

Edit: where I can just knock out the taper pins, swap in the new FSB, and pop the pins back in. For those of us committed to FSBs due to the build and having them set up that way. Like with DD rails with the cuts for FSB etc.
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 5:50:14 PM EDT
[#32]
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You would be surprised.  It is reliable with a lot of ammo at .049 with the suppressors I mentioned including the Remington green box cheap stuff.  A lot of backpressure from the can.
Lots of variables though.  Pretty sure it won't run with Tula at .049.....but this is also with the assumption of a standard power spring and H2 buffer and standard milspec BCG.
You always get people running all kind of stuff.  Put a JP SCS and LW BCG and it probably will work even with Tula.

Gas to the face is also subjective and everyone seems to have their own sensitivity levels to it.   Lefties for example are typically more sensitive to it of course.
Likewise, most people can't tell the difference between a .070 and .082 port when suppressed.  It is only when malfunctions start occurring that they start asking questions.
Just like a match trigger.  Way more standard triggers are sold than match triggers as most of the population don't care or can't tell the difference.

I don't want to sell anything that people won't be 100% satisfied with.  
I'm sure your configuration works great at .070 as we've already discussed but I would guarantee that it would be smoother at a smaller port.  I see you're in FL.  If you're in the CFL area, I'd be happy to let you try out my MK18 or could even put a block on your upper at whatever size you want and see what you think.  
 
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Quoted:

I highly doubt it's reliable with all ammo at .049.

As I said I have this barrel and the commercial one.
It runs great. I would not get anew adjustable gas block for it.
No excess gas to the face like the commercial barrel.

You would be surprised.  It is reliable with a lot of ammo at .049 with the suppressors I mentioned including the Remington green box cheap stuff.  A lot of backpressure from the can.
Lots of variables though.  Pretty sure it won't run with Tula at .049.....but this is also with the assumption of a standard power spring and H2 buffer and standard milspec BCG.
You always get people running all kind of stuff.  Put a JP SCS and LW BCG and it probably will work even with Tula.

Gas to the face is also subjective and everyone seems to have their own sensitivity levels to it.   Lefties for example are typically more sensitive to it of course.
Likewise, most people can't tell the difference between a .070 and .082 port when suppressed.  It is only when malfunctions start occurring that they start asking questions.
Just like a match trigger.  Way more standard triggers are sold than match triggers as most of the population don't care or can't tell the difference.

I don't want to sell anything that people won't be 100% satisfied with.  
I'm sure your configuration works great at .070 as we've already discussed but I would guarantee that it would be smoother at a smaller port.  I see you're in FL.  If you're in the CFL area, I'd be happy to let you try out my MK18 or could even put a block on your upper at whatever size you want and see what you think.  
 


I might take you up on that and swap the block on my factory MK18 upper.
Link Posted: 12/4/2015 9:54:12 PM EDT
[#33]
0.049" Baby Govnah did wonders on my 10.5" with a Ranger 3.
Link Posted: 12/5/2015 11:47:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Another option that I rarely see is using an insert in your current gas block to choke it down to the desired port size. I'm experimenting with a pre-made one from Black River Tactical but you can make one yourself if you're a little handy. Its nothing more than a stainless set screw drilled out and shortened to fit inside of the gas block. I have a 0.070 for my Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and its been working great after several hundred rounds suppressed and unsuppressed. . I am a firm believer in pinned gas blocks, which the Noveske gas block already is. I didn't want to have to go to a set screw style or have my gunsmith pin a new one when it was already there.

Edit: my setup is the Noveske 10.5" Stainless CQB barrel, choked down 0.070" gas port, AAC SDN-6, H2 buffer and a Sprinco blue. I may experiment with an H3.

Link Posted: 12/5/2015 1:07:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Another option that I rarely see is using an insert in your current gas block to choke it down to the desired port size. I'm experimenting with a pre-made one from Black River Tactical but you can make one yourself if you're a little handy. Its nothing more than a stainless set screw drilled out and shortened to fit inside of the gas block. I have a 0.070 for my Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and its been working great after several hundred rounds suppressed and unsuppressed. . I am a firm believer in pinned gas blocks, which the Noveske gas block already is. I didn't want to have to go to a set screw style or have my gunsmith pin a new one when it was already there.

Edit: my setup is the Noveske 10.5" Stainless CQB barrel, choked down 0.070" gas port, AAC SDN-6, H2 buffer and a Sprinco blue. I may experiment with an H3.

View Quote


.070 sounds large for suppressed use. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/5/2015 6:19:16 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


.070 sounds large for suppressed use. YMMV
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Quoted:
Another option that I rarely see is using an insert in your current gas block to choke it down to the desired port size. I'm experimenting with a pre-made one from Black River Tactical but you can make one yourself if you're a little handy. Its nothing more than a stainless set screw drilled out and shortened to fit inside of the gas block. I have a 0.070 for my Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel and its been working great after several hundred rounds suppressed and unsuppressed. . I am a firm believer in pinned gas blocks, which the Noveske gas block already is. I didn't want to have to go to a set screw style or have my gunsmith pin a new one when it was already there.

Edit: my setup is the Noveske 10.5" Stainless CQB barrel, choked down 0.070" gas port, AAC SDN-6, H2 buffer and a Sprinco blue. I may experiment with an H3.



.070 sounds large for suppressed use. YMMV


My goal was to mimic the Crane gas port size of 0.070 found on the MK18 mod 1 CQBR. Its shot suppressed and unsuppressed.
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