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Posted: 9/19/2015 10:43:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Light off a 10" AR15 inside the house. You'll be shopping for a suppressor in no time, unless you're not right upstairs. The concussion and overpressure from SBR's in the house is devastating to your and your family's or pets' ears. It will crush your skull soul. this I keep vest and ears next to bed. |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 12:05:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Light off a 10" AR15 inside the house. You'll be shopping for a suppressor in no time, unless you're not right upstairs. The concussion and overpressure from SBR's in the house is devastating to your and your family's or pets' ears. It will crush your skull soul. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Light off a 10" AR15 inside the house. You'll be shopping for a suppressor in no time, unless you're not right upstairs. The concussion and overpressure from SBR's in the house is devastating to your and your family's or pets' ears. It will crush your skull soul. lol, but seriously, this is right. Plenty of youtube vids of mk18s hitting out to 500m Quoted:
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Since we're posting pictures of our 10.3/10.5s and I'm currently whoring this pic... https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5741/20882238903_247248c1a6_o.jpg Oh why not--I whore this one out all the time. 
<a href="http://imgur.com/e2yxGPI" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/e2yxGPI.jpg</a> Can 11.5" guns come to the party? Don't mind the 12.5" 762x39 
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Posted: 9/19/2015 12:29:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol, but seriously, this is right. Plenty of youtube vids of mk18s hitting out to 500m Can 11.5" guns come to the party? Don't mind the 12.5" 762x39
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/ppcseniortrip/Both%20SBRs.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Light off a 10" AR15 inside the house. You'll be shopping for a suppressor in no time, unless you're not right upstairs. The concussion and overpressure from SBR's in the house is devastating to your and your family's or pets' ears. It will crush your skull soul. lol, but seriously, this is right. Plenty of youtube vids of mk18s hitting out to 500m Quoted:
Quoted:
Since we're posting pictures of our 10.3/10.5s and I'm currently whoring this pic... https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5741/20882238903_247248c1a6_o.jpg Oh why not--I whore this one out all the time.
<a href="http://imgur.com/e2yxGPI" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/e2yxGPI.jpg</a> Can 11.5" guns come to the party? Don't mind the 12.5" 762x39
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/ppcseniortrip/Both%20SBRs.png Nice set up(s). Uno mas: 
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Posted: 9/19/2015 12:57:50 PM EDT
[#4]
What should I be looking for in a short barrel? Carbine length gas tube I'm guessing. Also will I need an adjustable gas block or can I fine tune the buffer and spring. Any other recommendations? I'm going to call about setting up a trust today. Should I use a lawyer or is silencer co's or silencer shops trust good enough?
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Posted: 9/19/2015 12:59:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What should I be looking for in a short barrel? Carbine length gas tube I'm guessing. Also will I need an adjustable gas block or can I fine tune the buffer and spring. Any other recommendations? I'm going to call about setting up a trust today. Should I use a lawyer or is silencer co's or silencer shops trust good enough? Probably will be carbine gas. An adjustable gas block is the best solution for any gas issues. Buffer/spring are bandaids. I used 199trust.com, no complaints whatsoever. But a lawyer is always the best option. |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 3:58:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every year numerous guys bring out 10.5'' guns to the annual AR match and they will rock your skull, even with double ear pro on. God forbid they have to shoot the thing inside a car, under a car, or under a shelter... It is seriously fucking brutal. With a good can it will sound sorta like a 22lr rifle, which isn't hearing safe but a hell of a lot better than any un-suppressed AR. I was very impressed with one guys 10.5'' that was wearing a YHM phantom can. I even took out my ears just so I could hear it one time to see if it would be manageable and I got no pain or ringing. I think the blast reduction alone might make a can on an AR with worth it. Maybe it's because I'm half deaf and used to concussion from 155s, but I haven't experienced the abuse that people claim 10.3" rifles dish out, and I almost exclusively shoot mine in the washes out in the desert here, which are quite confined. Usually with just a set of muffs. You can feel the difference, absolutely, especially if you're shooting in a dusty area, but it isn't like being slammed by Mjollnir like everyone says. That being said, you should absolutely buy a suppressor for every rifle you own.
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Posted: 9/19/2015 5:10:11 PM EDT
[#7]
I've never used my SBR for self defense but it has killed many a coyote on the farm. I always shoot suppressed and use 75gr handloads. It shoots under 1 moa and has hit coyotes out to 300 yds. Without the suppressor it scares ALL the horses and neighbors within 1/2 mile, I shot it once from inside the barn and couldn't hear ANYTHING for 2 days.!
For self defense inside the house I use my 45 pistol because it's hard to open doors with my "third hand."  |
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Posted: 9/21/2015 10:50:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I have a 13.7" infidel barrel right now with the kx5 on it total length is just over 16". The gun shoots great but I was thinking about SBR'ing the lower. Is a 10.5 still a decent sized barrel for 5.56? The barrel I'm looking at has a carbine length gas tube. I want to put the kx5 on the shorter barrel so overall length will be about 13". Those that have experience is the difference going to be worth it for home defense gun? I'm thinking the shorter overall length will make it easier to get around the house. But at the same time I'd still like to be able to shoot it out to 200 yards. I am not a loony tune that thinks the world is coming to an end I'm just looking for an excuse to tinker with a completed gun. Plus on my next build I'll be getting out to 16" anyway so why have two at the same length. Although my next build will probably be a lighter setup. Just finished a 4 day Tactical Carbine class and other than a few jams I had no issues with my MK18 with 10.3" barrel. Using a supported position with 55gr Wolf Gold ammo, Eotech + 3x magnifier I was able to get... 2" groups at 100 yards 4" groups at 200 yards w/ about 8" of drop 6" groups at 300 yards w/ about 24" of drop Just about everyone else in the class had 16" barrels and they were seeing about 1/2 the drop that I was getting. Off the top of my head i think a 10" vs 16" is only a couple hundred fps drop in velocity. Example, instead of 3000 fps you will be shooting at say 2700fps...thats still REALLY fast and will still kill someone, for comparison most pistol rounds are going around 1000 fps. But keep in mind a 10" gun is VERY loud, will feel the concussion and the people shooting next to you will not like you. I highly recommend a suppressor if you go that short. A short, lightweight suppressor like a Trek-T paired with a SBR w/ its stock collapsed all the way makes for a lightweight and compact firearm that can actually be used for HD unlike most AR15, especially if you live in a smaller, older home with narrow hallways and doors. |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 12:41:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Does a 12.5" barrel tame the blast/noise significantly more than a 10.5"?
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Posted: 9/22/2015 12:53:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does a 12.5" barrel tame the blast/noise significantly more than a 10.5"? Surprisingly so, yes. Your ears are still gonna bleed if you're inside, but they will stop bleeding sooner. |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surprisingly so, yes. Your ears are still gonna bleed if you're inside, but they will stop bleeding sooner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does a 12.5" barrel tame the blast/noise significantly more than a 10.5"? Surprisingly so, yes. Your ears are still gonna bleed if you're inside, but they will stop bleeding sooner. I'm pretty sure any AR 223/556 inside a house would be devistating. |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 1:09:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Light off a 10" AR15 inside the house. You'll be shopping for a suppressor in no time, unless you're not right upstairs. The concussion and overpressure from SBR's in the house is devastating to your and your family's or pets' ears. It will crush your skull soul. lol, but seriously, this is right. Plenty of youtube vids of mk18s hitting out to 500m Quoted:
Quoted:
Since we're posting pictures of our 10.3/10.5s and I'm currently whoring this pic... https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5741/20882238903_247248c1a6_o.jpg Oh why not--I whore this one out all the time.
<a href="http://imgur.com/e2yxGPI" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/e2yxGPI.jpg</a> Can 11.5" guns come to the party? Don't mind the 12.5" 762x39
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/ppcseniortrip/Both%20SBRs.png Nice set up(s). Uno mas: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5788/21533782262_2b2a7ab668_o.jpg Thanks, I'm going to see if I can break that NcStar scope |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 6:17:24 PM EDT
[#13]
With the right ammo a 10.5 will absolutely get it done for home defense.
I'm with the other guys telling you to get a can too. Most silencers will take your 10.5 up to roughly the length of an unsuppressed 16" rifle, but I would much rather have the suppressed SBR. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 1:15:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the right ammo a 10.5 will absolutely get it done for home defense. I'm with the other guys telling you to get a can too. Most silencers will take your 10.5 up to roughly the length of an unsuppressed 16" rifle, but I would much rather have the suppressed SBR. if you have the cash there are suppressors out there that are not much heavier or longer than a flash hider or muzzle break. https://www.deltapdesign.com/suppressors/brevis-5-56mm-suppressors/brevisr-ii-ultra-5-56-nato-rifle-suppressor.html |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 7:00:34 PM EDT
[#15]
I have a few 300 blk and 556 SBR's (all with cans) and my go to HD is a Glock 17 with a can and light. Shooting any of the SBRs without a can is painful and with a can they are just as long as a 16". In addition, most of the 556 and 300blk ammo will go through your wall. If I had to pick one of the SBRs up, it would be my 8" 300blk with can under the rail.
I am waiting to save some funds to pick up my ideal HD gun. A Sig MPX with 4.5" barrel and can. As it relates to the KX 5, I have one and really like it. With that said, many companies are coming out with blast shields that ratchet down like a can. Therefore you will be able to take it on/off/swap to another rifle/etc. These will be very nice. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:13:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a few 300 blk and 556 SBR's (all with cans) and my go to HD is a Glock 17 with a can and light. Shooting any of the SBRs without a can is painful and with a can they are just as long as a 16". In addition, most of the 556 and 300blk ammo will go through your wall. If I had to pick one of the SBRs up, it would be my 8" 300blk with can under the rail. I am waiting to save some funds to pick up my ideal HD gun. A Sig MPX with 4.5" barrel and can. As it relates to the KX 5, I have one and really like it. With that said, many companies are coming out with blast shields that ratchet down like a can. Therefore you will be able to take it on/off/swap to another rifle/etc. These will be very nice. So what you're saying is that 9mm won't go through your wall? 
If you've never had to shoot someone who's running / running towards you, I promise you can't possibly imagine how inaccurate you'll be with a handgun unless you've trained with simunitions, etc. Handguns are for carrying, rifles are for defending yourself. Anything that will penetrate to someone's vital organs will penetrate your flimsy drywall. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:19:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what you're saying is that 9mm won't go through your wall?
If you've never had to shoot someone who's running / running towards you, I promise you can't possibly imagine how inaccurate you'll be with a handgun unless you've trained with simunitions, etc. Handguns are for carrying, rifles are for defending yourself. Anything that will penetrate to someone's vital organs will penetrate your flimsy drywall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a few 300 blk and 556 SBR's (all with cans) and my go to HD is a Glock 17 with a can and light. Shooting any of the SBRs without a can is painful and with a can they are just as long as a 16". In addition, most of the 556 and 300blk ammo will go through your wall. If I had to pick one of the SBRs up, it would be my 8" 300blk with can under the rail. I am waiting to save some funds to pick up my ideal HD gun. A Sig MPX with 4.5" barrel and can. As it relates to the KX 5, I have one and really like it. With that said, many companies are coming out with blast shields that ratchet down like a can. Therefore you will be able to take it on/off/swap to another rifle/etc. These will be very nice. So what you're saying is that 9mm won't go through your wall?
If you've never had to shoot someone who's running / running towards you, I promise you can't possibly imagine how inaccurate you'll be with a handgun unless you've trained with simunitions, etc. Handguns are for carrying, rifles are for defending yourself. Anything that will penetrate to someone's vital organs will penetrate your flimsy drywall. A big decision in tac teams dropping MP5s and picking up colt commandos and MK18 type weapons was that a proper 555 will penetrate less than a modern 9mm JHP |
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Posted: 9/24/2015 2:02:38 PM EDT
[#18]
I agree that a 9mm can go through a wall. However, there are plenty of 9mm rounds out there that are good for HD as it relates to wall penatration. Is a rifle more accurate, absolutely. I have taken several dynamic courses and shooting in that type of an environment with a handgun is very humbling. However, more than likely you wont be shooting at anything more than 7 yrds in your house and a lot of that will be in confined space such as rooms and hallways. In addition, it is important for me to be able to shoot with one hand in case I need the other (example: picking up my young kids, etc).
At the end of the day, what works for me may not be what is best for you. |
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Posted: 9/24/2015 2:24:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that a 9mm can go through a wall. However, there are plenty of 9mm rounds out there that are good for HD as it relates to wall penatration. Is a rifle more accurate, absolutely. I have taken several dynamic courses and shooting in that type of an environment with a handgun is very humbling. However, more than likely you wont be shooting at anything more than 7 yrds in your house and a lot of that will be in confined space such as rooms and hallways. In addition, it is important for me to be able to shoot with one hand in case I need the other (example: picking up my young kids, etc). At the end of the day, what works for me may not be what is best for you. Not can, will. It will go through a 2x4 wall with 1/2" gypsum on both sides. It'll probably go through several of those walls. If your house is made of ICFs or CMUs with fully grouted cells, this conversation may be less relevant. I agree what works best for me may not work best for you. I'm not having kids, and my wife will be shooting right by my side if something happens. That said, if you're shooting someone with one hand while you pick up your young kids with your other hand, I think you've made a mistake. I've shot simunitions at someone running in a hallway about 3 yards from me and I was all over the place. Humbling is absolutely the right term for it. Unless it's something you train for again and again, people are utterly unprepared for those dynamics. Pistols are just not the right tool for the job. |
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Posted: 9/30/2015 7:31:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Mk18 with Gemtech Trek, S&W 10.5 with YHM LT .30cal. My HD gun is the Mk18. I love the trek for the OAL and for a steel can its super easy to maneuver.
The Mk18 used to have the YHM QD brake on it. Awesome for negating muzzle rise but F shooting that thing indoors without a can lol. it's brutal. |
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Posted: 9/30/2015 11:42:09 AM EDT
[#22]
My 10.5" baby. It's a real teeth rattler with the Lantac, but fun as hell.
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Posted: 9/30/2015 9:45:10 PM EDT
[#23]
I'll play. My 10.5" Noveske Gen III
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Posted: 9/30/2015 10:01:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fair answers thanks for all the impute. So what's the shortest effective suppressor for something like a 10.5" and when every thing is together what's the total length compared to a 14.5" pinned to 16" total length. I'm just trying to get a feel for how much shorter I'll end up from where I'm at now. I wanted to be 4" shorter but that doesn't seem feasible. 300bo is what you seek |
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Posted: 10/1/2015 3:31:40 PM EDT
[#25]
My new home defense carbine.
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Posted: 10/1/2015 3:48:30 PM EDT
[#26]
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My new home defense carbine.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/ASULeadTrumpet/DSCN1586_zpsaqrtdjwd.jpg congrats buddy! |
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Posted: 10/1/2015 8:16:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My new home defense carbine.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/ASULeadTrumpet/DSCN1586_zpsaqrtdjwd.jpg I hope you got a can for that thing. Light that thing off and you'll be blind and deaf for a week. |
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Posted: 10/1/2015 8:37:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope you got a can for that thing. Light that thing off and you'll be blind and deaf for a week. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My new home defense carbine. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/ASULeadTrumpet/DSCN1586_zpsaqrtdjwd.jpg I hope you got a can for that thing. Light that thing off and you'll be blind and deaf for a week. |
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Posted: 10/1/2015 9:15:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:43:59 AM EDT
[#30]
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Why skip the kx5? A can only lowers the db's by 30-40 max that doesn't seem like a lot. I'm listening guys I'm just also trying to get as much info out of you all as possible. Also the can now takes me back out to16+ inches. I seen a 4" can is that any good that's only a hair bigger than a kx5. I'd like to keep the whole thing short for hallway travel. Thanks again for the info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10.5" is noticeably handier in small spaces, and will still get you to 200 (and 300) yards easily. I would skip the KX5 on the SBR personally, but that's just me. Get a suppressor compatible MD and eventually get a can. You're going to want one anyway.  Why skip the kx5? A can only lowers the db's by 30-40 max that doesn't seem like a lot. I'm listening guys I'm just also trying to get as much info out of you all as possible. Also the can now takes me back out to16+ inches. I seen a 4" can is that any good that's only a hair bigger than a kx5. I'd like to keep the whole thing short for hallway travel. Thanks again for the info. If you're talking about using it as a home defense gun, IMO you absolutely should have a can on it. I can't imagine shooting a gun with a kx5 indoors, by by hearing for you and probably the family. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 2:58:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 3:04:36 PM EDT
[#32]
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TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 9:38:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. Always check your local and state laws but aside from a few very liberal states there is no reason to tamper with evidence. SBR and Suppressors are legal to own and no law says they cant be used for self defense (Again confirm this based on where you live) If for some odd reason the county prosecutor decides to pursue criminal charges even though its a good shot, say maybe its a slow year and he needs to justify his job, he will try and pair you as a crazy gun nut no matter what, it doesnt matter if its a Suppressor, Remington 870 shotgun or a BB gun he will make a comment like "why does any rational person need such a weapon" at which point your attorney will object and they judge will remind everyone that the type of weapon used is not what is being debated, everyone is here to decide if lethal for was necessary. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 10:30:15 AM EDT
[#34]
I would love for my suppressed 10.5" AR to be my HD gun but I would worry too much about leaving it where it could be stolen. Anyway, I'm so glad I got a can for this thing. The mount is a muzzle brake and I've fired it exactly three times without a can on it. I DID NOT like it. It felt like I was being slapped in the face whenever I fired. 12.5" 6.8mm SPC on the top and my 10.5" 5.56mm on the bottom.
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Posted: 10/11/2015 5:49:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. I agree just sayiing .... My cousin shot / killed home invader not that long ago gun friendly~ town/ county. It took over a year before he got his gun back from evidence. He wasn't charged completeltly clean shoot. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 6:06:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree just sayiing .... My cousin shot / killed home invader not that long ago gun friendly~ town/ county. It took over a year before he got his gun back from evidence. He wasn't charged completeltly clean shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you had to use your suppressed SBR for a self-defense shooting, what about the can? I'm of the opinion that it isn't "evidence tampering" seeing as modern suppressors don't leave any additional markings on the bullet do they? It would suck bad enough to have your SBR tied up in evidence, but the can would doubly suck. If you actually shoot someone, having your suppressor "tied up in evidence" will be the least of your problems. TN is good about this: - is it a good shoot? - is the weapon legal? No problem. If the person who is shot is committing a crime - they (or family) cannot pursue civil litigation either. Same thing in Texas. Altering your weapon after you have to use it in self defense is STUPID. I agree just sayiing .... My cousin shot / killed home invader not that long ago gun friendly~ town/ county. It took over a year before he got his gun back from evidence. He wasn't charged completeltly clean shoot. And he lived long enough to deal with the inconvenience of having his gun tied up in evidence. I would feel really annoyed at having my 10.5" tied up in an evidence locker for a year. I would feel really good about not having a home invader murder my wife. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 11:16:54 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a 10.3" (DD barrel home rolled poor man's MK18) that is my HD rifle. It wears YHM Phantom TI. I also have a 8.5" blkout and YHM Phantom LT that will soon wear a red dot and flashlight and it will become the new dedicated HD rifle (running subs). Hell if the wife and kids aren't home and I a home invasion, I will grab the 7.5" and prepare for the deafening!! I'd bet it would scare the shit out a home invader thinking I was using a cannon against them.
10.3" 
Blkout 
10.3" and 7.5" 
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