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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:22:52 PM EDT
About to buy my first SBR. Thinking Daniel Defense MK18 with 10.3" barrel. I know nothing about SBRs....

How is reliability? Do things need tuned/adjusted to make them function properly? Is there anything (brand/ammo/etc.) to stay away from?

I heard that Sig has "adjustable" gas systems in theirs.....Does that have any rationale?

If it matters, I will likely put a suppressor on it, so I would be concerned with changes with the suppressor going off/on as well.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 6:26:41 PM EDT
[#1]
If you're going to use a suppressor, I would recommend a Micro MOA Govnah switchable gas block...
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 7:02:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Don't know about recent runs, but I did hear that DD was also concerned about reliability in the hands of civilians and made the gas ports on the DD Mk18 oversized so they'll work fine with lower pressure .223 ammo. This would leave them a little overgassed with 5.56 ammo, so an adjustable gas block may be a good idea.

You could also do what I did, build/buy your SBR and try it out.  Mine (a 10.5" from palmetto) ran fine with all ammo I've put through it, even steel cased Russian .223 during function checks. I've played around with the buffer and spring (my own version of the A5), but otherwise it's not been messed with. Suppressed and unsupressed it runs fine, and I don't see a need for an adjustable gas block. I do have an NiB BCG which seems to help with cleaning after suppressed shooting.

So long post short, don't overthink it on the front end. Get it and start using it, if you then have issues or questions come on back and people can get specific. DD makes good stuff, chances are it is going to work just fine, both mechanically and in its secondary function of putting a massive smile on your face!
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 7:53:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
If you're going to use a suppressor, I would recommend a Micro MOA Govnah switchable gas block...
View Quote



This.
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 8:00:32 PM EDT
[#4]
I found a h2 buffer, rtv'd and drilled charging handle plus lots of lube makes for a successful experience. And gloves.....
Link Posted: 10/27/2014 10:34:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks guys. It's appreciated! Great info. Since I'm a newbie I'm learning here...

How do I know if I need an adjustable gas block....Will the rifle just not function? i.e. How do I know it's a gas block issue versus buffer, etc.?
And is a Govnah something that I could install myself (simple)? And what tells you where to adjust it to?
Please excuse my lack of knowledge!

Link Posted: 10/29/2014 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#6]
You may need to do some tuning, but if they've bored the gas port as Andrevski mentioned then any necessary tuning to make it function reliably will be with buffer weight. I think the MK18 comes with an H buffer and it may run fine with that but if it doesn't get an H2 (~$25).

It WILL be overgassed when shooting supressed.

SKS447 and AlabamaPaul mention fixes for overgassed shooting and since I've actually got a Micro MOA Govnah I think it's the best option because it works really well and I get negligible gas to the face while shooting supressed with an 11.5".

ETA:
How do I know it's a gas block issue versus buffer, etc.?
View Quote

If the rifle does not function reliably, start with the buffer as it's the cheapest and easiest thing to fix besides ammo type, but some other things to troubleshoot would be the mags.

And is a Govnah something that I could install myself (simple)? And what tells you where to adjust it to?
View Quote

Possibly, but I'd get the barrel dimpled for the Govnah if you do get it. Install is not hard but the dimples help IMO.

I'd look here for info on the gasblock: LINK
Link Posted: 10/29/2014 6:24:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 4:56:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



This.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you're going to use a suppressor, I would recommend a Micro MOA Govnah switchable gas block...



This.


Yup
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 9:57:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Where can a MicroMOA Govnah be bought?  Their homepage shows they have no stock.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 9:51:19 AM EDT
[#10]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Where can a MicroMOA Govnah be bought?  Their homepage shows they have no stock.

Thanks.
View Quote
They'll be getting more in about three weeks.  Ask to be notified when back in stock...

 
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 10:53:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They'll be getting more in about three weeks.  Ask to be notified when back in stock...  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where can a MicroMOA Govnah be bought?  Their homepage shows they have no stock.
Thanks.
They'll be getting more in about three weeks.  Ask to be notified when back in stock...  


Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 11:06:17 AM EDT
[#12]
10" barrels often are overgassed for reliability purposes. When you put a can on , it exacerbates the issue. I have a Noveske 10.5" that turns the barrel black from all the gas escaping out the suppressor mount and I get a face full too. It does run fine though using a H buffer but it could probably benefit from a heavier one.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 11:08:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Not if you gear your rifle correctly. A Vltor A5 will solve most cycling issues even on the weakest Tula 223. I have had no trouble with my DD MK18 or 7 inch with the A5 configuration.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 2:27:50 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Not if you gear your rifle correctly. A Vltor A5 will solve most cycling issues even on the weakest Tula 223. I have had no trouble with my DD MK18 or 7 inch with the A5 configuration.
View Quote



i like the A5 vltor stuff too for over gassed barrels but found the A5's not so reliable with my GI spec gas ports on a colt 14.5 m4 barrel and a FN 20" GI barrel. cold weather and limp 223 ammo was a bad combination with the H2 weight. the H0 helped but then i felt too much in the buttstock with milspec m193.

although i do use the A5 in my suppressed SBR's. the longer buffer spring travel seems to smooth out the impulse.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 2:51:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I chopped a Bushmaster CAR down to around 12".  It runs fine with an H buffer, with or without the HALO on it. No other mods, unless Adco opens up the gas port by default.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 2:53:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I chopped a Bushmaster CAR down to around 12".  It runs fine with an H buffer, with or without the HALO on it. No other mods, unless Adco opens up the gas port by default.
View Quote


the bushy's i had seemed to be over gassed anyway so you might just be "in range" now.

Link Posted: 10/31/2014 6:37:50 PM EDT
[#18]
My 11.5" BCM has not had 1 malfunction either suppressed or unsuppressed with Federal XM193, XM855 or Tulammo, with a few different muzzle devices. All I have in it is an H buffer.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 9:01:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My 11.5" BCM has not had 1 malfunction either suppressed or unsuppressed with Federal XM193, XM855 or Tulammo, with a few different muzzle devices. All I have in it is an H buffer.
View Quote

I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.
   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No
   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.
   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 9:55:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.
   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No
   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.
   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 11.5" BCM has not had 1 malfunction either suppressed or unsuppressed with Federal XM193, XM855 or Tulammo, with a few different muzzle devices. All I have in it is an H buffer.

I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.
   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No
   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.
   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.

Wait. So if my SBR does run reliably, meaning zero, ZERO malfunctions (un)suppressed, with no "tuning" besides using the manufacturer suggested H buffer, then why would I need to dick around with "tuning" it for "optimal performance?" I will start worrying about "optimal whatever" when parts break or malfunctions occur. IMOYMMV
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 1:53:20 AM EDT
[#21]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Wait. So if my SBR does run reliably, meaning zero, ZERO malfunctions (un)suppressed, with no "tuning" besides using the manufacturer suggested H buffer, then why would I need to dick around with "tuning" it for "optimal performance?" I will start worrying about "optimal whatever" when parts break or malfunctions occur. IMOYMMV
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

My 11.5" BCM has not had 1 malfunction either suppressed or unsuppressed with Federal XM193, XM855 or Tulammo, with a few different muzzle devices. All I have in it is an H buffer.


I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.

   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No

   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.

   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.


Wait. So if my SBR does run reliably, meaning zero, ZERO malfunctions (un)suppressed, with no "tuning" besides using the manufacturer suggested H buffer, then why would I need to dick around with "tuning" it for "optimal performance?" I will start worrying about "optimal whatever" when parts break or malfunctions occur. IMOYMMV
Because people worry about too much recoil and parts stress. Which, in my opinion, is overblown minutiae.

 
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 7:43:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 8:10:02 AM EDT
[#23]


You wouldn't NEED to do any tuning.  Let's make an analogy to bolt action rifles.......you could buy a RemyChester or any other brand of factory rifle and probably be happy with it's performance. Could you do anything to that rifle to make it shoot better? (Better being any number of criteria......you could put a recoil pad on it to reduce felt recoil. Maybe a muzzle brake to reduce recoil. You could blueprint the action. On and on and on} Are any of these mods NEEDED?
 An AR is no different from any other firearm. Are mods needed? Probably not, but it's individual preference. Do you NEED to put a better trigger on an AR than what it came with? Many people would say no, some would say yes. Believe it or not, there are lots of guys that get into the minutiae of tuning their rifles.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 8:28:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Don't go into this thinking an SBR will not work.  Manufacturers pretty much have their barrels set up correct now.  Where you see issues is when guys chop a longer barrel down.  I built a 10.5" Noveske upper and had no issues.  I ran an H2 buffer because I also had a suppressor for it.  Just a standard lo-pro Noveske gas block.  I say keep it simple and don't go drilling on anything.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 9:35:55 PM EDT
[#25]
I haven't suppressed it yet, but I threw my 10.5 on my lower with a standard carbine buffer and it runs like a top. Haven't had one malfunction and took it to a carbine class last week. Good ejection pattern and no gas in the face. I'm sure it is overgassed,  but no overt signs. Pretty decent muzzle blast with M855 ammo though!
Link Posted: 11/3/2014 11:34:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.
   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No
   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.
   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 11.5" BCM has not had 1 malfunction either suppressed or unsuppressed with Federal XM193, XM855 or Tulammo, with a few different muzzle devices. All I have in it is an H buffer.

I see similer answers like this all the time when someone asks about reliability/tuning/etc.  Of course most factory carbines run with all kinds of ammo. That's the way they were designed. That DOES NOT mean that the gun is optimally tuned. The OP's DD Mk18 will come with a large gas port to ensure that it runs with all kinds of ammo. Odds are your BCM did too. Slap a suppressor on it and it is guaranteed to be way over gassed, which means that it is sure to run. That doesn't mean that it's tuned. Tuned would imply that the gas system is sized to the conditions and still functions reliably. An overgassed gun may run reliably but that does not mean that it is running optimally.
   Take that Mk18 and it'll run most any ammo. Put a suppressor on it and it will run most any ammo. Does that mean it is tuned?   No
   Put an adjustable gas block on it so that you can control the amount of gas, and you can then tune it. Less gas in your face. Less dirt in the action. Less wear on all the moving parts. Less recoil. Faster, well placed follow up shots.
   Is an adj. gas block neccessary?  No, but to tune the action, one will make tuning easy.


i would tend to agree with you on this topic.

while my LMT 10.5 gas port is set up perfect for suppressed fire, my BCM 11.5 is a bit over gases as the cases eject at about 2 o'clock and the impulse is more pronounced. going to a heavier buffer slowed the bolt down enough to get a 3-4 oclock pattern.

i dont see the need to run an upper "wide open" so to speak. heavier buffers on over gassed barrels will mean the carrier speed is more correct. follow up shots are better and less stress on the system over all.

as you extractor spring and claw wear down you might see some extraction issues with an over gassed system too, maybe but YMMV.

Link Posted: 11/3/2014 11:39:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
  You don't NEED to drive 100 miles on the highway in 5th gear....you could drive that distance in 1st gear the whole time.  1st gear can cover that distance just like 5th gear can so why bother with 5th gear?  I think the answer to that is obvious.  We've done many demo's and the difference to everyone is obvious when running a suppressor w/ regulated gas.  

 
View Quote


thats a pretty darn good analogy
Link Posted: 11/4/2014 10:14:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 1:19:51 PM EDT
[#29]
I have had great success with the WAR adjustable upper from innovative arms. Not sure who stocks these now as I preordered mine before they came out. It works great.
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 3:05:50 PM EDT
[#30]
11.5" (DD barrel) SBR with a JC-SCS buffer system (lightest white spring installed) and an SLR Sentry adjustable gas block, 2 clicks out from closed suppressed and 4 clicks out from closed unsuppressed and it runs like a dream. No malfunctions, no gas in the face, quite as shit (with the can on, loud as fuck without it), and literally feels like a .22 rimfire. All the parts matter but the adjustable gas block is the most important for tuning it IMO.
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