Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 2/24/2015 11:17:54 PM EDT
This is the first time I have tried to remove a barrel so bear with me. I have a FN SPR that I am trying to get into the lathe to thread for a can. The lug on the front of the receiver is preventing me from entering the through bore, so I need to remove the barrel. Any tips or tricks from the experts on here? Word on the net is that the barrel is loctited in, will heating it with a torch cause damage? I have both mapp and oxy/acet, is one a better option than the other? many thanks
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 11:23:04 PM EDT
[#1]
It is doubtful the barrel is loctited on.  But if it were, a heat gun will be safer to use than anything with an open flame.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 2:11:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Reveiver wrench and a barrel vise.



A Winchester Mod 70 receiver wrench should fit the FN SPR action.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 2:34:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It is doubtful the barrel is loctited on.  But if it were, a heat gun will be safer to use than anything with an open flame.
View Quote


All the Loctite compounds will break down at 450 degrees or less.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 3:26:26 PM EDT
[#4]
is there any standard for right or left threading? no threads are exposed so I am unsure.

I have vise blocks for the barrel and an action wrench will soon be on its way.

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 9:22:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
is there any standard for right or left threading? no threads are exposed so I am unsure.

I have vise blocks for the barrel and an action wrench will soon be on its way.

Thanks
View Quote

No.

Link Posted: 2/26/2015 10:20:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 1:43:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Some are interference fits that deform the threads to lock them tight.

Used a longer cheater bar.
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 4:28:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Headspace gages?

Instead of screwing around trying to work through the headstock, put the barreled action into a dog and the steady rest, line 'er up, and thread the barrel.

How long is the headstock on this lathe that the action doesn't stick completely out the back side?



View Quote


From what I have gathered, if I put the same barrel back into the same receiver (making sure to line up the index marks), then headspacing won't change. Is this not correct?

As to the dog and steady rest, I don't trust myself using a steady rest enough yet and don't have all the tooling for the lathe to set up that type of job just yet. I am fairly mechanically inclined and like to do my own work where I can, that being said I'm not a machinist and what I have learned has been self taught. My thinking is I can take the receiver off the barrel easy enough and do the threading ( I have already done some barrel threading and made a form1 can). If I can't manage to get the receiver off, I'll likely just send it off to ADCO, but I'd like to give it a try before I go that route.

My headstock with the chuck in place is 1.5" throughbore around 24" long. Barrel on the SPR is 20" I believe, it doesn't even make it out without the chuck mounted
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 4:57:57 PM EDT
[#9]
From what I have gathered, if I put the same barrel back into the same receiver (making sure to line up the index marks)
View Quote


Getting it to this position can be anything from not bad to nearly impossible.

Many guns have hard interference fits, especially military actions.
Some are so tight they cannot be released without turning a clear section in the barrel right against the receiver.
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 11:32:59 PM EDT
[#10]
4 jaw chuck?
Link Posted: 2/27/2015 12:38:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
4 jaw chuck?
View Quote


yes
Link Posted: 2/27/2015 2:21:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 2/28/2015 12:47:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Be sure to add index marks on the barrel and receiver.

You may need a monster vise and wrench to get the barrel loose, but it will come off.  A FN or Winchester receiver has right hand threads.

That is a long head stock.  You can shorten the effective length by replacing the chuck with a dedicated spider.  You ought to install a support inside the spindle on the out board end with the chuck, too, in order to get the working end aligned, and you'll need one with a spider in any case.

I don't understand why you think you don't have the tools to set the job up in a steady rest, they're the same as working in the headstock.  Unless you're trusting the bore in the barrel to be in the center of the barrel and parallel to the spindle bearings.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Headspace gages?

Instead of screwing around trying to work through the headstock, put the barreled action into a dog and the steady rest, line 'er up, and thread the barrel.

How long is the headstock on this lathe that the action doesn't stick completely out the back side?





From what I have gathered, if I put the same barrel back into the same receiver (making sure to line up the index marks), then headspacing won't change. Is this not correct?

As to the dog and steady rest, I don't trust myself using a steady rest enough yet and don't have all the tooling for the lathe to set up that type of job just yet. I am fairly mechanically inclined and like to do my own work where I can, that being said I'm not a machinist and what I have learned has been self taught. My thinking is I can take the receiver off the barrel easy enough and do the threading ( I have already done some barrel threading and made a form1 can). If I can't manage to get the receiver off, I'll likely just send it off to ADCO, but I'd like to give it a try before I go that route.

My headstock with the chuck in place is 1.5" throughbore around 24" long. Barrel on the SPR is 20" I believe, it doesn't even make it out without the chuck mounted


Be sure to add index marks on the barrel and receiver.

You may need a monster vise and wrench to get the barrel loose, but it will come off.  A FN or Winchester receiver has right hand threads.

That is a long head stock.  You can shorten the effective length by replacing the chuck with a dedicated spider.  You ought to install a support inside the spindle on the out board end with the chuck, too, in order to get the working end aligned, and you'll need one with a spider in any case.

I don't understand why you think you don't have the tools to set the job up in a steady rest, they're the same as working in the headstock.  Unless you're trusting the bore in the barrel to be in the center of the barrel and parallel to the spindle bearings.



Even with the chuck removed it doesn't exit the spindle unfortunately. As far as supporting the other end, the couple I have done so far I used shims to keep the end supported inside the headstock. Not as precise as a cat's paw but it got the job done successfully.

As far as not having all the tooling, I do have a steady rest, but I would have to use the four jaw on the receiver and wouldn't have anything to index for zero other than the outside of the barrel. Then dialing in the steady rest is its own, how shall we say ..., experience! Mainly I don't have enough confidence in my experience with that type of setup yet to try it with a higher value firearm.
Link Posted: 2/28/2015 10:29:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 2/28/2015 10:57:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would not remove the barrel from the receiver, since this will end with you having to reset the head space when you reinstall the barrel to the receiver.

Instead set screw type receiver receiver mandrel in the receiver (inside the receiver) with Dog leg to drive it, live end on the muzzle, and thread the barrel.  
Hence, Indicate off the barrel just in front of the receiver to set the 4 jaw chuck so the receiver side is running true, and if you have trued the end stock ,then the bore muzzle should be running true with the live end.

Using the live end, thread the barrel as needed,
Now thread on  a extra over size  muzzle thread protector that is just short of the end of barrel, put the live center back in the bore, take a pass on the thread protector to make sure it's OD is true with the bore on the live end, install the steady rest to the outside of the trued thread protector, back the live end away, take a quick check with a indicator to make sure that the muzzle is running true, and take a light pass on the crown to clean up the end of bore distortion caused by the live end when you where threading.

Done this way, you are done in mins, verse having to pull the barrel and dealing with head space when you put the barrel back on.



View Quote


Interesting, part of not having the tooling I mentioned, was I don't have any mandrels of any kind or any dogs. But I could set up something similar with a lathe bar and the four jaw chuck. If I bolt the receiver to the bar, shimming if needed to true, this operation would still work correct?
Link Posted: 3/1/2015 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Unless you have a 3-phase lathe (with a way overpowered motor) you should be able to develop far more torque manually than under power.

Make a steel barrel block that is exactly the barrel diameter before slotting.
You should only need one slot to 'spring' it enough to slide on.
Use fine larger mechanical threads (hardened if you can) for the clamp.

Tighten a high grade bolt (8 would be good).
If the clamp is large enough use two bolts.

Use the largest pipe wrench you can lay your hands on to grab the block.
Have another person hold wrench while you use an action wrench in the receiver lugs.
Slide a section of steel pipe on the action wrench.
If you have to, put multiple people on the pipe wench.

I have been known to use a hydraulic jack against the weight of a house to hold the wrench in place.


Link Posted: 3/1/2015 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 3/1/2015 10:22:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Unless you have a 3-phase lathe (with a way overpowered motor) you should be able to develop far more torque manually than under power.

Make a steel barrel block that is exactly the barrel diameter before slotting.
You should only need one slot to 'spring' it enough to slide on.
Use fine larger mechanical threads (hardened if you can) for the clamp.

Tighten a high grade bolt (8 would be good).
If the clamp is large enough use two bolts.

Use the largest pipe wrench you can lay your hands on to grab the block.
Have another person hold wrench while you use an action wrench in the receiver lugs.
Slide a section of steel pipe on the action wrench.
If you have to, put multiple people on the pipe wench.

I have been known to use a hydraulic jack against the weight of a house to hold the wrench in place.


View Quote


3hp 3phase, shit tons of torque in low gear  
Link Posted: 3/1/2015 10:28:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes, you can make a mandrel out of a piece of bar stock, and some square stock bolted to the sides  of the turned down round stock to fit the receiver lugs channels.
Not only will this come in handy to thread the barrel now, but to go back in and clean up the crown down the road as well.
Note: 11* crown cutter comes in handy, but not needed since you can cut the needed crown angle with a HHS single cutter instead.  Work from the bore outwards on the cut with the compound slide, not from the OD inward to the bore.  This will leave the end of cut bur on the outside of the barrel at the start of the threads, and it will be cleaned off when you make the end of threads cut for the taper into the threads.  

Also, not a fan of making the chamfer cut to the bore after the 11* cut (or even going back in with a brass taper to chamfer the edge) , but leaving it sharp'ish instead after the crown polishing that will slightly break the edge.   The reason for this, just too easy to go back later to clean up the crown every 700 rounds or so, plus  I don't buck wild scrubbing the hell out of barrel during cleaning to screw up the edge, but use Sweets that will removed the copper without having the jack the shit out of the crown/rifling by over scrubbing back and forth instead (read brush from chamber to muzzle, and pull off the brush instead of yanking it back down to the chamber instead).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJyNiQax4eQ
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Interesting, part of not having the tooling I mentioned, was I don't have any mandrels of any kind or any dogs. But I could set up something similar with a lathe bar and the four jaw chuck. If I bolt the receiver to the bar, shimming if needed to true, this operation would still work correct?


Yes, you can make a mandrel out of a piece of bar stock, and some square stock bolted to the sides  of the turned down round stock to fit the receiver lugs channels.
Not only will this come in handy to thread the barrel now, but to go back in and clean up the crown down the road as well.
Note: 11* crown cutter comes in handy, but not needed since you can cut the needed crown angle with a HHS single cutter instead.  Work from the bore outwards on the cut with the compound slide, not from the OD inward to the bore.  This will leave the end of cut bur on the outside of the barrel at the start of the threads, and it will be cleaned off when you make the end of threads cut for the taper into the threads.  

Also, not a fan of making the chamfer cut to the bore after the 11* cut (or even going back in with a brass taper to chamfer the edge) , but leaving it sharp'ish instead after the crown polishing that will slightly break the edge.   The reason for this, just too easy to go back later to clean up the crown every 700 rounds or so, plus  I don't buck wild scrubbing the hell out of barrel during cleaning to screw up the edge, but use Sweets that will removed the copper without having the jack the shit out of the crown/rifling by over scrubbing back and forth instead (read brush from chamber to muzzle, and pull off the brush instead of yanking it back down to the chamber instead).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJyNiQax4eQ


Thanks, I'm going to have to check that out!
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 12:05:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Ok, first off I want to thank Aero and Dano, you guys convinced me to go ahead and try doing this "across centers" if you will. I am excited over the challenge and figured I'd share my documentation along the way.

First I zeroed and turned down a chunk of stainless rod for a mandrel.


Barreled action mounted on mandrel with live center


Close up of receiver, I used the screws for the scope ring base to help hold the action to the mandrel


Turned down the end and ready to thread


Now I ran into a slight problem. My threading tool is too large to fit between the live center and the end of the barrel. So waiting on new micro thread tool that will fit in the space available.


So let me have it! How am I doing? Any advice or critiques welcome.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 12:08:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Oh yeah, I almost forgot a shout out to my very helpful apprentice! My daughter loves helping her Daddy!!  

Link Posted: 3/7/2015 1:06:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 6:26:43 PM EDT
[#23]
yep, definitely going to square the shoulder and cut the thread relief next. Just happened to see the thread tool wasn't going to fit and it was time to stop for the night, so I snapped a quick pic and left it sit.

As to the threaded sleeve, I have not made one yet. I could always single point it, but I don't like single pointing  internal threads without a go/no go gage. My plan was to just drill and tap  a piece of stock on the mill. Then I would use that for a go/no go gage for the barrel threads before using it for the steady rest sleeve.

I also figured if I needed to, I could pop the 4 jaw off and use the 3 jaw to make up the sleeve. I have the chucks marked so they get mounted the same way everytime. Not ideal, but the repeatability has been very good doing this in the past
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 7:27:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:14:54 PM EDT
[#25]
You have gotten some great guidance here.
I will frequently thread barreled actions in a similar way, chuck the the reciever but instead of running my live center directly on the crown I will turn a bore sized spud out of aluminum or brass. Turn a 2-3 inch section that is a tight slip fit in your bore with a shoulder for the muzzle to register on that is an inch or so long and center drill. For 5/8 diameter threads I turn the shoulder a fat 9/16 or so diameter.
Slip that spud in your bore and run the live center in the center drilled end of the spud.
That way you aren't putting a hardened live center into fairly soft barrel steel crown, saves you from recrowning it too.
Plus it solves your threading tool dilemma, you will now have enough clearance to get your tool in there.

The only issue is you need to mind your speed and feed, with the length of the barrel you can get vibration.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:59:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 11:17:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 11:49:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My receiver mandrel has a hole drilled and tapped for a clamp screw with a thick washer to clamp against the action rails.  Looks like scope screws work, too.

View Quote


After mounting the barreled action, I have marked the mandrel where the bolt locks up and will be drilling and tapping later for a cap screw. That way the action will slip on and twist into position locking onto the cap screw like the bolt locking closed. With the direction the lathe turns, this should prevent any slip combined with the rail bolts as set screws. I didn't want to remove the mandrel here but figured it would be a nice addition for any future use.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 12:06:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Also to point out I don't see your math/lay out sheet anywhere in the photo's, and it should be pinned somewhere in front of you as you are working so you can always glance at it to stay on the correct path for all your cuts.   Hence even when working with DRO's that I pre-set off my cut work sheets, I still keep my original cut sheet in eye sight in front of me as I am machining, so I can double check the DRO move distances back to the sheet.  It too easy to screw up the numbers in your original work sheets, or even punch in the wrong move coordinates/tool sizes in the DRO, and with your work sheet in front of you, can catch the problem a lot faster to maybe save the work piece, then after you have made a bunch of cuts and not only destroyed the work piece, but wasted a lot of time of cuts after the piece as destroyed as well.
Plus saves you from having extra lumps of your head at the end of day, if you just happen to be learning how to machine in a shop that every time you screw up, someone chucks a dead blow mallet at your head.
View Quote


Good point usually I have a sketch with needed dimensions and any math to go with it stuck to the splash guard with a magnet. Most of these shots were taken before starting or after finishing. I find the cheat sheet especially helpful for threading.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 10:27:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 6:30:44 PM EDT
[#31]
that's a nice looking threading tool, not too pricey either. Picked one of those up to try out as well. You can never have too many tools!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2015 11:50:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Ok, got the job finished up so I thought I'd add a few more photos. Now if the rain ever stops I can put some rounds through it!

New thread tool fit great


Picked up a nice thread protector to use as a thread gauge


Steady rest setup and muzzle face cleaned up


And finished



I debated over cutting an 11 degree target crown but the barrel didn't have one originally. They just used a recessed flat crown originally with what looked to be a slight 60 degree cut. I cut in with a 0 degree boring bar until just touching the recessed face and then  just gave the 60 degree cut a light touch where the live center engaged. I was going to get a piloted reamer for the cut, but they are currently out of stock. I may have to come back to that if the accuracy has suffered. Thanks again for all the input!
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 9:41:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 10:27:26 AM EDT
[#34]
yeah, after reading up on crowning I wasn't too impressed with the factory job but the rifle shot 1/2 MOA so I guess it couldn't be too bad.

My main reason for not changing it was the chrome lining. I didn't want the chrome to chip and cause bigger issues
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 10:37:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 5/28/2015 12:34:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Nice lathe!  Here's mine when I went to pick it up:

Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top