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Posted: 12/5/2015 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#1]
If they are unable to tell you what magazine it uses and unwilling to let you test for yourself (or do it for you) then I would pass on the carbine, personally... AND find another shop.
Besides all that, the new model offers some distinct advantages over ghe older ones. I haven't tried one yet, but plan to pick one up myself in the coming year. |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 12:24:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they are unable to tell you what magazine it uses and unwilling to let you test for yourself (or do it for you) then I would pass on the carbine, personally... AND find another shop.
Besides all that, the new model offers some distinct advantages over ghe older ones. I haven't tried one yet, but plan to pick one up myself in the coming year. Big box store...rules.... 
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:25:23 AM EDT
[#3]
$400 for a used Gen 1 ? Not for me! People are buying new Gen2 models for that or close to it. The Sub is a nice little unique firearm but it is not a high dollar piece. The original Sub, the Sub9, was all metal and had a BHO, etc. But it cost too much to produce and KelTec redesigned it to bring the price down.
They are unique feeling as much like a big pistol as a small rifle. There are other choices out there, both more expensive and less so. Keep an open mind and keep looking. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 1:47:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Nothing on the gun to tell what magazine it uses but there is a difference in the grips of Beretta and Glock versions. Scan down to the second pic.http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm
That's too much for a used Sub 2000. It's more than the original cost. I'd wait and find a version 2 as it has some improvements especially the sights and handguards. Info should be on the box if it comes with a box and I don't know why they won't at least show you the magazines. I'd pass and buy a 2nd generation. Not an expert of Sub 2000 but I do know the earlier versions the barrels chamber had a feed ramp and the latest Gen 1's do not have a feed ramp to the chamber. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 7:30:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing on the gun to tell what magazine it uses but there is a difference in the grips of Beretta and Glock versions. Scan down to the second pic.http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm That's too much for a used Sub 2000. It's more than the original cost. I'd wait and find a version 2 as it has some improvements especially the sights and handguards. Info should be on the box if it comes with a box and I don't know why they won't at least show you the magazines. I'd pass and buy a 2nd generation. Not an expert of Sub 2000 but I do know the earlier versions the barrels chamber had a feed ramp and the latest Gen 1's do not have a feed ramp to the chamber. Get a new one and you will have KelTec's warranty behind it. Be patient, you will get one at a fair price. |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 10:42:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing on the gun to tell what magazine it uses but there is a difference in the grips of Beretta and Glock versions. Scan down to the second pic.http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm That's too much for a used Sub 2000. It's more than the original cost. I'd wait and find a version 2 as it has some improvements especially the sights and handguards. Info should be on the box if it comes with a box and I don't know why they won't at least show you the magazines. I'd pass and buy a 2nd generation. Not an expert of Sub 2000 but I do know the earlier versions the barrels chamber had a feed ramp and the latest Gen 1's do not have a feed ramp to the chamber. No mag for it but from the photos it looks to be glock mag version. Has the full throated barrel not the ramp. We don't see many of the Sub 2000's here. I've only seen 5 9mm ones in the past 12 years. One was a display for a local machinist that makes aftermarket parts like a fully adjustable front sight. 3 were police trades at the local cop shop for $375 three years ago and all sold to employees before they hit the floor. 1 was NIB in the wild for $500! |
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Posted: 12/7/2015 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#7]
The value of something has to have at least a little bit to do with what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of MSRP, especially when it comes to Kel-Tec stuff. I paid $600 for a CMR-30 and the only other one I've seen was at a gun show and he was asking $1,200. Obviously $1,200 is way high but if it's an important piece to someone's collection then he might get it. Who knows when he'll even see one again. As for the Sub, $400 is very reasonable and I wouldn't pass up a chance on it because it may or may not be $25 too much. It's supposed to be a truck/backpack gun anyway so if you ever come across the Gen2 for a good price, which it may very well be years before you do, buy that one too. Then if the SHTF and you've got a buddy with you when it does, the both of you are GTG.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 1:04:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$400 for a used Gen 1 ? Not for me! People are buying new Gen2 models for that or close to it. The Sub is a nice little unique firearm but it is not a high dollar piece. The original Sub, the Sub9, was all metal and had a BHO, etc. But it cost too much to produce and KelTec redesigned it to bring the price down. They are unique feeling as much like a big pistol as a small rifle. There are other choices out there, both more expensive and less so. Keep an open mind and keep looking. Gen 2 9mm are selling for $550 although the .40 cal versions are $450.  I like the forend on the gen 1 better and there is a guy locally that makes aftermarket sights. The gen 1 sold for $350 back in the 90's and the lowest I've seen a used gen 1 go for is $375 three years ago. They were department trades and all three sold to employees of the store right before they were to go out on the floor. The only reason I found out about em was an employee walking by the counter had one in his hand and I asked about em.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 3:50:06 PM EDT
[#9]
I've seen I think 1 or 2 Sub-2000s in shops ever. The Gen 2's threaded barrel makes it almost a must-have for me. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I found it on the shelf for 450ish or less. At 550, I could build a 300blk AR that I've also been lusting after, which might trump the Sub2k.
There might be hope of increased production, and hope of prices down around 400 or less eventually, but who knows how long that'll take. |
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Posted: 12/8/2015 12:04:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen I think 1 or 2 Sub-2000s in shops ever. The Gen 2's threaded barrel makes it almost a must-have for me. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I found it on the shelf for 450ish or less. At 550, I could build a 300blk AR that I've also been lusting after, which might trump the Sub2k. There might be hope of increased production, and hope of prices down around 400 or less eventually, but who knows how long that'll take. It's a tough choice because there are some affordable AR 9mm glock lowers hitting the market now and I'm tempted to save and build a nice one. But the KelTec folds up sooo compact and if it takes Glock mags it would be awesome Decisions...decisions... 
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Posted: 12/8/2015 12:05:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing on the gun to tell what magazine it uses but there is a difference in the grips of Beretta and Glock versions. Scan down to the second pic.http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm That's too much for a used Sub 2000. It's more than the original cost. I'd wait and find a version 2 as it has some improvements especially the sights and handguards. Info should be on the box if it comes with a box and I don't know why they won't at least show you the magazines. I'd pass and buy a 2nd generation. Not an expert of Sub 2000 but I do know the earlier versions the barrels chamber had a feed ramp and the latest Gen 1's do not have a feed ramp to the chamber. That's a great site on the Sub2k by the way, thanks for the link! |
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Posted: 12/8/2015 5:51:30 PM EDT
[#12]
I can't believe the rage over these things. The gen 2 is nice, but I can't see ever paying over MSRP for a gen 1. My advice is to go rent one or shoot a friend's and really look it over before you buy it. These are built like an occasional use appliance... I feel like guns should be built like a tool you use daily. FWIW, I had one for 5 years that I bought for $300 and sold for $350. I got tired of gluing the front sight back on but the gun always shot fine. Just not my style even though I really thought it would be when I got it.
There are so many better 9mm carbine options these days than the gen 1 Sub2K. |
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Posted: 12/8/2015 7:18:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't believe the rage over these things. The gen 2 is nice, but I can't see ever paying over MSRP for a gen 1. My advice is to go rent one or shoot a friend's and really look it over before you buy it. These are built like an occasional use appliance... I feel like guns should be built like a tool you use daily. FWIW, I had one for 5 years that I bought for $300 and sold for $350. I got tired of gluing the front sight back on but the gun always shot fine. Just not my style even though I really thought it would be when I got it. There are so many better 9mm carbine options these days than the gen 1 Sub2K. There's 2 gen 1 9mm's listed locally for $500 and $525 and a .40 for $400. So it's still about a $100 under the going price for em as is. Nobody else makes a folding compact carbine for Glock mags and that's it's main appeal. Ill probably pass because a 9mm ar is sounding like the better investment. |
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Posted: 12/9/2015 12:45:10 PM EDT
[#14]
It's just whether you're interested in a compact folding carbine that takes Glock pistol magazines with up to 33 round capacity or something else. I agree the price is too high. Still I recommend the 2nd Generation because of the better sights.
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Posted: 12/9/2015 2:31:05 PM EDT
[#15]
For even money, I'd take a glock-mag AR... but there's no way to build one for under 700-800 or so. The New Frontier stuff looks great though.
Also you cannot beat the Kel Tec for portability/packability - it is 4 pounds and fold-able vs. 7 for an AR. |
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Posted: 12/10/2015 12:30:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For even money, I'd take a glock-mag AR... but there's no way to build one for under 700-800 or so. The New Frontier stuff looks great though. Also you cannot beat the Kel Tec for portability/packability - it is 4 pounds and fold-able vs. 7 for an AR. What do 9mm complete uppers go for? There's a local company selling glock compatible lower recievers with mag catch installed for $150. |
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Posted: 12/10/2015 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Just saw another gen 1 .40 yesterday at an LGS for $550. I don't like the gen 2 the gadget factor changes the gun's ergos and attempts to expand it's purpose too far from it's basic premise. The sights to me are fine.. the new sights may be sturdy, but they're bulky too.
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Posted: 12/12/2015 1:41:05 AM EDT
[#18]
I got my Gen 2 for $415 shipped from CDNN a few months ago. They emailed some were available and mine was ordered within 5 minutes of receiving the email.
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Posted: 12/12/2015 2:35:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't believe the rage over these things. The gen 2 is nice, but I can't see ever paying over MSRP for a gen 1. My advice is to go rent one or shoot a friend's and really look it over before you buy it. These are built like an occasional use appliance... I feel like guns should be built like a tool you use daily. FWIW, I had one for 5 years that I bought for $300 and sold for $350. I got tired of gluing the front sight back on but the gun always shot fine. Just not my style even though I really thought it would be when I got it. There are so many better 9mm carbine options these days than the gen 1 Sub2K. Which guns are you thinking about?? I have a gen I and II. The one is rough but it's still cool for what it is. I wanted the folding ability even though I rarely use it. Makes a great backpack gun. The gen II is what the gen I should have been. Still wish there was a better optics mounting option than the offset mounts or the spinning hand guard. |
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Posted: 12/16/2015 11:06:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Update: Got a coupon in the mail while the Sub was still on hold and bought it
It was in such nice shape that I figured WTH. When I found it in the used rack and picked it up I was immediately swarmed by people wanting to know what it was or wishing they'd spotted it first and when I was checking out at the counter people in line were asking about it so from a practical stand point there is still value in them. Next question...has anybody tried running Magpul glock mags in their SUB yet? I've got plenty of Glock factory mags but I was thinking of trying my lighter weight Magpul mags in this thing..... any love? |
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Posted: 12/16/2015 10:15:54 PM EDT
[#21]
The gen 2 comes with a magpul mag. The quality doesn't appear to be anywhere near glock mags, however it has run fine in the sub 2000 and my g19.
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Posted: 12/16/2015 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For even money, I'd take a glock-mag AR... but there's no way to build one for under 700-800 or so. The New Frontier stuff looks great though. Also you cannot beat the Kel Tec for portability/packability - it is 4 pounds and fold-able vs. 7 for an AR. You're shopping at the wrong places. Used upper receivers can be had for $75, delivered. $140 for a bbl, $150-$160 BGC, $130 lower. Everything else including the upper receiver can be picked up as used / take offs. Outside the bbl, bgc & lower everything else is AR. I did mine for $500, maybe 600 tops. If i can find the receipts for the new stuff i'd know exactly. Everything else i had in my parts bins. If the ergonomics and overall fit & function of the 2K is something you like , buy it. |
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Posted: 12/17/2015 12:36:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gen 2 comes with a magpul mag. The quality doesn't appear to be anywhere near glock mags, however it has run fine in the sub 2000 and my g19. I had to pry mine out. It wasn't anywhere close to drop free. |
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Posted: 12/17/2015 2:00:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're shopping at the wrong places. Used upper receivers can be had for $75, delivered. $140 for a bbl, $150-$160 BGC, $130 lower. Everything else including the upper receiver can be picked up as used / take offs. Outside the bbl, bgc & lower everything else is AR. I did mine for $500, maybe 600 tops. If i can find the receipts for the new stuff i'd know exactly. Everything else i had in my parts bins. If the ergonomics and overall fit & function of the 2K is something you like , buy it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For even money, I'd take a glock-mag AR... but there's no way to build one for under 700-800 or so. The New Frontier stuff looks great though. Also you cannot beat the Kel Tec for portability/packability - it is 4 pounds and fold-able vs. 7 for an AR. You're shopping at the wrong places. Used upper receivers can be had for $75, delivered. $140 for a bbl, $150-$160 BGC, $130 lower. Everything else including the upper receiver can be picked up as used / take offs. Outside the bbl, bgc & lower everything else is AR. I did mine for $500, maybe 600 tops. If i can find the receipts for the new stuff i'd know exactly. Everything else i had in my parts bins. If the ergonomics and overall fit & function of the 2K is something you like , buy it. I haven't been able to price it out for that. Just the total of the parts you list is $505, and you still need LPK, buffer tube, stock, hand guard, charging handle and sights before you have a functional gun. No offense, but not everyone has a fully stocked parts bin, so when folks quote build prices, they often underestimate the real costs of building a complete gun. |
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Posted: 12/17/2015 1:15:24 PM EDT
[#25]
You'll like your new toy! SHOT IT YET???
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Posted: 12/18/2015 12:50:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gen 2 comes with a magpul mag. The quality doesn't appear to be anywhere near glock mags, however it has run fine in the sub 2000 and my g19. Did they used to come with a Glock factory mag? Good to know they run! |
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Posted: 12/18/2015 12:55:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to pry mine out. It wasn't anywhere close to drop free. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The gen 2 comes with a magpul mag. The quality doesn't appear to be anywhere near glock mags, however it has run fine in the sub 2000 and my g19. I had to pry mine out. It wasn't anywhere close to drop free. I can insert fine and they drop free no problem, I just hope they feed fine... Do Glock factory mags drop free ok or do they fit tight in yours too? |
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Posted: 12/18/2015 1:02:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll like your new toy! SHOT IT YET??? I have not gotten to shoot it yet, hopefully this weekend. I drive by the range twice every day on my way to and from work and I'm dying to get in there! |
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Posted: 12/19/2015 7:32:46 PM EDT
[#29]
They both drop free from the sub, however the magpul mag is harder to seat in the Glock. The Glock mag actually seems to fit a little better in the sub as well (not as tight).
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Posted: 12/20/2015 3:48:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can insert fine and they drop free no problem, I just hope they feed fine... Do Glock factory mags drop free ok or do they fit tight in yours too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gen 2 comes with a magpul mag. The quality doesn't appear to be anywhere near glock mags, however it has run fine in the sub 2000 and my g19. I had to pry mine out. It wasn't anywhere close to drop free. I can insert fine and they drop free no problem, I just hope they feed fine... Do Glock factory mags drop free ok or do they fit tight in yours too? glock mags have no issues in mine. Maybe I just got a bad mag. It's the only magpul mag I have seen. |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 2:19:12 AM EDT
[#31]
I picked up a Sub2k today from academy for 430 plus tax. Basic little carbine, came with a Magpul mag as others have said. Has some issues with the plastic joints being sharp in some areas, nothing that a fingernail file will not take care of. Shot it a little at the range today, about 3" or so at 25 yards standing, no sling, and not trying too hard. Will compare it to my Sub9 when the flood waters recede and I can take it out to 100 yards.
But I just paid429.99 plus tax for the latest generation......so 400 for an older model that you are not sure of the mag would be a little high in my opinion. |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 4:14:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I picked up a Sub2k today from academy for 430 plus tax. Basic little carbine, came with a Magpul mag as others have said. Has some issues with the plastic joints being sharp in some areas, nothing that a fingernail file will not take care of. Shot it a little at the range today, about 3" or so at 25 yards standing, no sling, and not trying too hard. Will compare it to my Sub9 when the flood waters recede and I can take it out to 100 yards. But I just paid429.99 plus tax for the latest generation......so 400 for an older model that you are not sure of the mag would be a little high in my opinion. Don't like the Gen 2 (don't like cheese grater forends or optics on a pcc and the new grip is weird). The gen 1 I got is glock 17 version and they go for $450-550 used here and I've never seen any Keltec product at my local Academy. I got an additional $30 off with coupon too so I paid $370 + tax. |
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Posted: 12/25/2015 7:56:19 AM EDT
[#33]
I love my gen 2. It hasn't jammed yet in 300ish rounds. The Magpul mag needed a little sanding, but it feeds good. The Korean 33rd mags I got for $12 feed and drop free flawlessly.
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Posted: 12/25/2015 5:41:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my gen 2. It hasn't jammed yet in 300ish rounds. The Magpul mag needed a little sanding, but it feeds good. The Korean 33rd mags I got for $12 feed and drop free flawlessly. I've seen the Korean mags at the gun show but never grabbed any because I keep finding used Glock 33 rounders for under $20. Might try a couple though. |
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Posted: 12/29/2015 1:31:41 PM EDT
[#35]
i'm actually liking the Gen2 quite a bit compared to the original Sub2k. I also have an original SUB9 that takes Glock mags. Came with one pre ban Glockamole (33rnd) mag. The Front sight is like an AK sight, and I use an AK tool to adjust it, while the rear is a piece of some type of hard metal. The Original Sub2k had a cheesy front sight and plastic rear, which I didn't care for and never bought one. The Gen2 Sub2k has an AR type front sight, and looks like you can use an AR tool to adjust the sight. Rear sight is still plastic however. As far as the cheese grater feeing, I will be putting some type of ladder or other covers on what I'm not using. My SUB9 had a magpul rail and sling attachment in the slots when I got it. Also, the Gen2 is about a pound or so lighter, and is threaded for suppressors or flash hiders to annoy liberals........
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Posted: 12/31/2015 6:00:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Just handled my Sub2k Gen2 again, and checked the forend.....it does not have that "cheese grater" feel to it, Not sure if it is because it is plastic instead of metal, or someone got smart and rounded the edges, or both. Still, probably will put ladder style rail covers on it just to do it. Now if I could only find a few more hours in a day.......
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Posted: 1/6/2016 12:26:15 PM EDT
[#37]
One local shop has a waiting list 8 deep for the Gen 2. Gunbroker has even fewer 9mm versions than they did a month or two ago (but the 40s are all over online, and much cheaper).
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Posted: 1/7/2016 3:34:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just handled my Sub2k Gen2 again, and checked the forend.....it does not have that "cheese grater" feel to it, Not sure if it is because it is plastic instead of metal, or someone got smart and rounded the edges, or both. Still, probably will put ladder style rail covers on it just to do it. Now if I could only find a few more hours in a day....... Cheese grater is just an expression meaning I don't like railed forends.. |
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Posted: 1/30/2016 7:28:45 PM EDT
[#39]
If anyone's interested Academy south side in Lafayette la has one 9mm glock 17 version left as of a couple hours ago. The other one came home with me. 429.00
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Posted: 2/8/2016 1:24:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Well S2K got its trial run yesterday and man, it's a grin gun fo sho! Everybody got to run it and had fun. The sight was loose when I bought it so I tightened it up then sighted it in and it wasn't that hard to get on the money less so then all the interwebs bitching led me to believe. Very accurate little carbine, ran all the glock mags including Magpul G17's, soft recoiling and fun! Good buy!
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Posted: 2/12/2016 9:53:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Just bought a like new Sub2k 9mm 2nd gen for $350, the same shop had a new one for $399. Can't wait to get this thing to the range.
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Posted: 2/16/2016 1:44:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Shot mine today. It liked 5 grains Unique with a 124 grain Hornady FMJ. Zeroed at fifty yards and I was impressed. I could see this little thing being very handy.
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Posted: 2/16/2016 2:52:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shot mine today. It liked 5 grains Unique with a 124 grain Hornady FMJ. Zeroed at fifty yards and I was impressed. I could see this little thing being very handy. Disappears in a backpack when riding a train. 
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Posted: 2/17/2016 1:48:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disappears in a backpack when riding a train. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Shot mine today. It liked 5 grains Unique with a 124 grain Hornady FMJ. Zeroed at fifty yards and I was impressed. I could see this little thing being very handy. Disappears in a backpack when riding a train. Bought a padded laptop bag at the local thrift store for $4 and set it up with a mag insert and cleaning kit. Fits perfectly and is easy to access. 
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Posted: 2/17/2016 2:00:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bought a padded laptop bag at the local thrift store for $4 and set it up with a mag insert and cleaning kit. Fits perfectly and is easy to access. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Shot mine today. It liked 5 grains Unique with a 124 grain Hornady FMJ. Zeroed at fifty yards and I was impressed. I could see this little thing being very handy. Disappears in a backpack when riding a train. Bought a padded laptop bag at the local thrift store for $4 and set it up with a mag insert and cleaning kit. Fits perfectly and is easy to access. It's the 1st thing a purse snatcher is gonna snatch and then he'll be armed! OMG!
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:32:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the 1st thing a purse snatcher is gonna snatch and then he'll be armed! OMG! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Shot mine today. It liked 5 grains Unique with a 124 grain Hornady FMJ. Zeroed at fifty yards and I was impressed. I could see this little thing being very handy. Disappears in a backpack when riding a train. Bought a padded laptop bag at the local thrift store for $4 and set it up with a mag insert and cleaning kit. Fits perfectly and is easy to access. It's the 1st thing a purse snatcher is gonna snatch and then he'll be armed! OMG! Lol... |
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