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Posted: 12/21/2014 9:38:43 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm really thinking hard about getting the CZ, looks badass and the price is right. I really do like the MPX a lot too, but I just cant bring myself to pay $1500 for a PCC.
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Posted: 12/21/2014 10:51:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Do what I'm doing and get all of them.
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Posted: 12/21/2014 10:54:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Get all. One per year if need be.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 8:57:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Here are a few pics of the POF Pistols
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Posted: 12/22/2014 10:59:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Yes I was drawn to your side the other day. I do prefer the pof5pk of those two options
But I think I will hold out for the Sig. I like the idea of similar grip, mag release, and charging handle. On the other hand always wanted a MP5 or clone. Then again the evo is half the price of the other options. Damn now I am back in the same starting place. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:13:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Old MP-5........NEW CZ.....ummmmmm
CZ is it. Price is right, quality is in its DNA, Sig is over priced like everything they make. MP 5 is so...."yesterday". |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#7]
I already own a ton of SBR PCC's and I'm waiting for the CZ.
I already own a few MP5 clones and I honestly have zero interest in the Sig. I just think it looks clunky and half developed. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:10:55 PM EDT
[#8]
That is a tough choice. With HK/POF, there are many parts out there you can replace yourself if anything goes wrong, I wonder how CZ and Sig will be with their pistols.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:31:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I own an MP5 sbr, a POF-5 and i LOVE it. That said, I shot the cz scorpion evo in prague, and it is also a fantastic rifle. I would say get both! A mp5 is an Mp5. Its easy to mount a red dot to it, and with said red dot, its no problem to hit steel at 100 yards.
The evo was shot maybe at 18 yards, but from that it was very accurate. I prefer the grip of an mp5, the evo grip lacks a beaver tail to keep your hand from riding up too high or sliding around a little bit.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:04:34 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm really interested in setting up a Scorpion as an SBR. I hope 922r won't be too big of a problem for it.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:47:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm really interested in setting up a Scorpion as an SBR. I hope 922r won't be too big of a problem for it. There are ATF letters out there saying 922r doesnt apply if you mfg an SBR from something that isnt a rifle
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:49:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CZ is it. Price is right, quality is in its DNA, Sig is over priced like everything they make. MP 5 is so...."yesterday". Right here. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 2:52:22 PM EDT
[#13]
For the nearly the price of the others you can get the CZ and a suppressor for it (if you don't already have one).
I was all about the MPX until it a: keeps getting delayed with lots of rumors on reliability and b:price sucks. I also was told it used AR controls early on but this isn't true, it does not use AR fire controls. They are similar but different. It is up to CZ to see if they can hit their delivery window but since it was available in Europe as a full auto for so long I don't think there are reliability issues that the Sig allegedly has. Again these are rumors but it does make a little sense as it has been forever since it was announced that they would be available next month, next quarter etc for a long time now. Oh and $20 cz mags vs $70 mpx mags. I still someday want an MP5 so I may snag a POF for that. It looks like a great example for the money. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:21:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are ATF letters out there saying 922r doesnt apply if you mfg an SBR from something that isnt a rifle Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm really interested in setting up a Scorpion as an SBR. I hope 922r won't be too big of a problem for it. There are ATF letters out there saying 922r doesnt apply if you mfg an SBR from something that isnt a rifle I thought I read somewhere that they have since reversed their position on this.....? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:23:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Has anyone heard anything more from Amati about importing the B&T APC9? I'd love to have one of those to go with my TP9 but something tells me they will either be vaporware or stupidly expensive.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:29:32 PM EDT
[#16]
They will all be very good options, which do you personally like most?
I have a POF-5 with custom built sig adapter and I love it. It is a stupid accurate fun little gun. It clocked in at a little over 2K all told so it's not cheap, and the 60+ dollar mags add up over time if you stick with genuine HK stuff. I also have every intention of getting the scorpion as soon as it comes out. It is obviously more modern and much cheaper. As long as it is reliable at the price point with 20 dollar magazines I think this will be a can't miss kind of gun if you are into PCC's. The big question is will CZ ever be able to actually make enough of them. They might be tricky to find for a while. To me the MPX is at the bottom of the group and un-buyable IMO. I just can't buy a "modern" weapon that has that stupid ass charging handle. Particularly in a gun that is supposed to be very compact and maneuverable, to put it in the least compact and hardest to use place is moronic. So that's a deal breaker for me. People who have trained a lot with the AR and have grown accustomed to it won't mind, I am just not in that group. If they even come out with a side charging model I will take another look, but not until them. But, as I said, YMMV. But as long as the controls look good to you all three are excellent options(again, assuming good reliability from the two unreleased ones) that will give you many many rounds of fun. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 1:54:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are a few pics of the POF Pistols http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/velocitypof.gif http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/pof9mm.jpg I'm going to be buying a 9mm pistol to form 1 this spring. I'm also interested in the same 3 models as the OP. I plan on shooting it suppressed 70% of the time. Price aside, are there any advantages or notable differences between your AA reverse stretch and the POF 5PK? |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 4:08:01 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm in the same boat on all these three as well... I totally want an AA89K as an SBr or the CZ Scorpion. The Sig looks cool but is taking so long to arrive and it's expensive. The AA89K is expensive too at about $1900 or so; but it's my Grail gun and I've always wanted an MP5k...
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Posted: 12/23/2014 4:53:19 PM EDT
[#19]
I would go the CZ route for your first SBR. For around 850 for the pistol, 200 for the stamp and whatever the stock will cost, you will have your SBR for less than the base price of the either the MPX or the MP5 clone. I know I am buying one to SBR.
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Posted: 12/23/2014 7:03:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me the MPX is at the bottom of the group and un-buyable IMO. I just can't buy a "modern" weapon that has that stupid ass charging handle. Particularly in a gun that is supposed to be very compact and maneuverable, to put it in the least compact and hardest to use place is moronic. So that's a deal breaker for me. People who have trained a lot with the AR and have grown accustomed to it won't mind, I am just not in that group. If they even come out with a side charging model I will take another look, but not until them. But, as I said, YMMV. I agree whole heartedly. I can't believe they copied the dumb ass charging handle. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 7:21:14 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't understand all the hate with the charging handle.
I kind ok like this, I feel that having similar controls from one weapon to another is a good thing. maybe in action it is not most convenient but I think it may be worth a try at least. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 8:12:33 PM EDT
[#22]
I went with a Quartercircle10 build that uses Glock mags.
Waiting on the MPX, especially in 40sw, was something I wasn't looking forward to. Plus you can build the QC10 up with the options you want. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 8:30:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went with a Quartercircle10 build that uses Glock mags. Waiting on the MPX, especially in 40sw, was something I wasn't looking forward to. Plus you can build the QC10 up with the options you want. so what upper/upper parts did you go with? and did you go pistol or sbr? got picks? |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 9:03:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so what upper/upper parts did you go with? and did you go pistol or sbr? got picks? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I went with a Quartercircle10 build that uses Glock mags. Waiting on the MPX, especially in 40sw, was something I wasn't looking forward to. Plus you can build the QC10 up with the options you want. so what upper/upper parts did you go with? and did you go pistol or sbr? got picks? Take a stroll cover to the Rimfire/Pistol Caliber forum. I'm starting to document the build over there. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_15/663575_QuarterCircle10_GSF_Build__Suppressed__40sandw.html |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 3:21:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree whole heartedly. I can't believe they copied the dumb ass charging handle. Oh, I can fully believe it, I just don't like it. The three primary targets for the gun are American consumers, police, and to a lesser extent, military. The US consumer market has a complete hardon for the AR. Anything a maker can do to make a gun more like an AR will help it sell better. It's a sad truth, but the market is ingrained in what it likes and is very slow to evolve and accept change. You still to this day have people who swear up and down that polymer guns are garbage and can never be as good as all metal guns. So if you can't beat them, at some point you just market to them. Police and military buyers are so trained with the AR it makes it hard to change. Just look at the IC competition. If you believe the leaks, which I personally do, the M4 was in dead last in the final round even after they tried to rig it by changing the ammo to one specifically tailored for the M4. So why do we still use the AR? Because the cost and difficulty of training everyone on a new platform is too much. So they just canceled the whole thing. Not because we have the best weapon, far from it, but because we are afraid of the cost and difficulty of replacing it. So again, anything you can do to "AR-ify" a gun it will help it pass muster with some of the intended buyers. That is why it has that charging handle, and a few other AR-centric design elements. I personally can't wait for the day that the AR is phased out and the market can fully move on to newer and better designs, but I think that is still a long time off. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 8:58:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Here is a pic of the smaller POF 5PK
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Posted: 12/25/2014 12:34:55 AM EDT
[#27]
I'm going with the CZ: great price, quality maker, cheap mags.
The POF clones and Sig both have the same problems: $50+ per mag and a 2x-3x the price of the CZ. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 1:25:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going with the CZ: great price, quality maker, cheap mags. The POF clones and Sig both have the same problems: $50+ per mag and a 2x-3x the price of the CZ. Not a knock on the CZ but is there possibly a case of buy once cry once? I think I have decided against the POF and will either go with the CZ or Sig based on user reviews and availability once they roll out. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 10:25:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Just my opinion, but given the quality of CZ's product line as whole I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Posted: 12/25/2014 7:59:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would go the CZ route for your first SBR. For around 850 for the pistol, 200 for the stamp and whatever the stock will cost, you will have your SBR for less than the base price of the either the MPX or the MP5 clone. I know I am buying one to SBR. this man gets it |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 5:06:13 PM EDT
[#31]
I ordered the Sig after they said they would be shipping 4th quarter of this year. It doesn't look like they are going to make it though. Not a big deal to me. I'll have it eventually. It seems like a lot of people that got caught up in the hype who never really wanted the firearm in the first place are upset though. They are done with the idea of wanting the gun and moved on to drool over something else.
I recently ordered the Scorpion too. Lets see if they can make their stated January ETA. As long as I get one of them before my can comes in I will be happy. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 5:44:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ordered the Sig after they said they would be shipping 4th quarter of this year. It doesn't look like they are going to make it though. Not a big deal to me. I'll have it eventually. It seems like a lot of people that got caught up in the hype who never really wanted the firearm in the first place are upset though. They are done with the idea of wanting the gun and moved on to drool over something else. I recently ordered the Scorpion too. Lets see if they can make their stated January ETA. As long as I get one of them before my can comes in I will be happy. if you don't mind me asking did you have to pay upfront on the sig order, or were you quoted a price? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 1:45:19 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ordered the Sig after they said they would be shipping 4th quarter of this year. It doesn't look like they are going to make it though. Not a big deal to me. I'll have it eventually. It seems like a lot of people that got caught up in the hype who never really wanted the firearm in the first place are upset though. They are done with the idea of wanting the gun and moved on to drool over something else. I recently ordered the Scorpion too. Lets see if they can make their stated January ETA. As long as I get one of them before my can comes in I will be happy. People are bailing because A: Sig missed their first 4-5 target release dates. Came and went without a word. B:The price (not just the gun but the stock and mags). Those are my reasons. I have spoken to a local dealer and they were told in order to get 1 MPX they had to buy a shitload of slower moving guns. He still has a waitlist. My name was on it in 2013. It was crossed off halfway through 2014. As far as the Scorpion, that came almost out of nowhere. I'm honestly excited because of price, availability (assuming they hit their timelines), the fact that it has existed for years in FA without issues and well, price. All with the CZ quality I enjoy already. I'm more than willing to give it a shot after having given up on a PCC. The fact that you can get a EVO, SBR it and still get a can all for less than the price of the Sig seals the deal. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 2:45:23 PM EDT
[#34]
what is the thoughts on a Tavor in 9mm
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Posted: 12/28/2014 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is the thoughts on a Tavor in 9mm The Tavor is a bullpup rifle and not in the same category as a compact subgun. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:38:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you don't mind me asking did you have to pay upfront on the sig order, or were you quoted a price? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I ordered the Sig after they said they would be shipping 4th quarter of this year. It doesn't look like they are going to make it though. Not a big deal to me. I'll have it eventually. It seems like a lot of people that got caught up in the hype who never really wanted the firearm in the first place are upset though. They are done with the idea of wanting the gun and moved on to drool over something else. I recently ordered the Scorpion too. Lets see if they can make their stated January ETA. As long as I get one of them before my can comes in I will be happy. if you don't mind me asking did you have to pay upfront on the sig order, or were you quoted a price? When I ordered the Sig through RockwelI thought I was only putting $50 down but they charged me the full price. I must have been thinking of one of the other more expensive places I found when I placed the order. The Scorpion was a $200 deposit. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:47:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People are bailing because A: Sig missed their first 4-5 target release dates. Came and went without a word. B:The price (not just the gun but the stock and mags). Those are my reasons. I have spoken to a local dealer and they were told in order to get 1 MPX they had to buy a shitload of slower moving guns. He still has a waitlist. My name was on it in 2013. It was crossed off halfway through 2014. As far as the Scorpion, that came almost out of nowhere. I'm honestly excited because of price, availability (assuming they hit their timelines), the fact that it has existed for years in FA without issues and well, price. All with the CZ quality I enjoy already. I'm more than willing to give it a shot after having given up on a PCC. The fact that you can get a EVO, SBR it and still get a can all for less than the price of the Sig seals the deal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I ordered the Sig after they said they would be shipping 4th quarter of this year. It doesn't look like they are going to make it though. Not a big deal to me. I'll have it eventually. It seems like a lot of people that got caught up in the hype who never really wanted the firearm in the first place are upset though. They are done with the idea of wanting the gun and moved on to drool over something else. I recently ordered the Scorpion too. Lets see if they can make their stated January ETA. As long as I get one of them before my can comes in I will be happy. People are bailing because A: Sig missed their first 4-5 target release dates. Came and went without a word. B:The price (not just the gun but the stock and mags). Those are my reasons. I have spoken to a local dealer and they were told in order to get 1 MPX they had to buy a shitload of slower moving guns. He still has a waitlist. My name was on it in 2013. It was crossed off halfway through 2014. As far as the Scorpion, that came almost out of nowhere. I'm honestly excited because of price, availability (assuming they hit their timelines), the fact that it has existed for years in FA without issues and well, price. All with the CZ quality I enjoy already. I'm more than willing to give it a shot after having given up on a PCC. The fact that you can get a EVO, SBR it and still get a can all for less than the price of the Sig seals the deal. People act like they have never waited for a new product come to market before. There are actually people in the MPX thread saying they wish Sig would just release it now and fix it later. I don't see how anyone that actually wants to buy one would say that. Probably the usual Sig bashers that pop up to bash Exeter at every opportunity The price has actually dropped from their original estimates. I certainly didn't expect <$1500. You couldn't get into a quality MP5 for that until recently. Mag prices do suck though. I haven't seen prices for the stocks. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:53:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Tavor is a bullpup rifle and not in the same category as a compact subgun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
what is the thoughts on a Tavor in 9mm The Tavor is a bullpup rifle and not in the same category as a compact subgun. It is the same category for him since he is the one looking to buy. I liked the idea of the 9mm conversion until I saw the price. The dedicated 9mm looks to be priced right. I have no idea how well they function but it seems like a good option if you don't plan to SBR. Nice compact package from the get go. |
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