OK, so....  I grew up hunting deer and took 4 with with Marlin Lever guns (2 with a bolt action).  3 with a .35 Remington and 1 with a .30-30.  The .30-30 I actually used the Federal 125 grain varmint load.  I wanted to see how it would perform.  I know some of you probably have taken a lot more deer than that, but whatever.  Those were some of the greatest experiences of my youth.  

Anyways....  About ooooh, lets just say 8 years ago (will look up serial number on the Database) my Dad bought a new Winchester Model 94.  And it is definitely different than a Marlin.  

My main question is, are these guns any good that are manufactured more recent?  I had heard it said they were made in Japan.  Is that true?  Can they be trusted?  


It is always my goal to either return to hunting Deer at some point or do some small game hunting (rabbits).  And I am always trying to figure out what gun would be best to use if the shtf temporarily and I needed to hunt.  We do have deer in my area.  Along with many other kinds of vermin and small game.  I live right across the street from a park area with a pretty large wooded area.  My range is a mile from me and if you go in the early morning, there are almost always deer up on the berms.  

Anyways......  

I'm probably being a bit nostalgic but I sometimes get tired of the black guns.  I've pretty much sworn off Carbines because I like shooting irons and they really don't work for me at ranges past 25 meters.  I can still shoot them but everything is so blurry.  I like my 20"er a lot.  Sight picture is a lot more useable.

But I'm wanting a bit of change right now.  So.....  Is my gun any good?  I'll get pics up soon.  My one reason for having kind of a big question mark is when we first bought it I bought some Cowboy ammo and they would not ignite.  I don't know why.  Regular Remington ammo worked fine though.  

I think my next range trip I might start to test accuracy with this thing.  But that's the other thing, someone mentioned cheap ammo for .30-30 in another thread and I'm not seeing it.  How much do you guys usually pay?   it might've meant cheap in comparison to other lever gun rifle calibers.  I don't know.  

I would like to get started into reloading but don't have everything needed yet.  But part of me wanted to use a gun that wasn't an auto to cut my teeth on reloading.  Since they are usually more pressure sensitive.   So a levergun might be the way to go.  

I've always longed for a bolt gun, but levers have served me well in the past.

I don't remember seeing any of the newer Model 94s from ten years ago, since I wasn't in the market for one. I have not heard any complaints in re the most recently made guns either. I know Browning had a lot of their guns made in Japan by Mirouku for a long time. And after a little research it appears they made some of the Winchester Lever guns recently. I have been a lever gun fan for a long time. Tou generally will not get super precision accuracy from lever guns since the underbarrel magazine changes the tension on the barrel as the shells are shot and ejected. That being said, the 30-30 Win cartridge has killed an unbelievably large number of game over the last 120+ years. I have had solid performance from the Hornady Leverevolution Ammo that has been out now for several years, and the PMC Starfire hollowpoints. Both have been one shot stoppers on deer for me (shot under 150 yds). I, like you, am a fan of iron sights and will use them when I can. The Mod.94 is at home here when mounted with a tang peep sight or receiver peep sight. You get a very long sight radius, and the self-centering benefit of the peep. Makes for very fast target acquisition and somewhat easier shot placement. As long as the gun is in good working order and you understand the performance parameters the cartrdidge offers, it is a fine choice for the uses you listed.

As to reloading. You will need to have a good crimp die if using a tubular mag gun. You will likely NEED to full length resize until you work out if the chamber on your gun will let you get away with neck sizing. If you can neck size only, you will get longer case life (more reloads) out of your brass in general. 30-30 is very easy to reload for. They are great fun with reduced velocity plinking loads, cheap as hell with home made cast lead bullets, and even the store bought cast bullets. You can shoot bullet weights from 100grain all the way up to 200grain. JUST PAY ATTENTION TO THE MANUALS.
IM me if you have any other questions.

It would benefit from an aperture sight.  But it looks like it might need to be drilled and tapped for it.  I thought they might have already been, but maybe not.....

Can you take off the front hood by just prying?  And if I do put a rear aperture sight on, how do you take the rear sight off?  Again, just pry the stamped steel on it?  

The serial number is outside of the date range of one of the links on the info page in this forum.....  653XXXX.  It stops at 5 something.  

Weighs in at 6 pounds 6 ounces and the trigger breaks at about 7 pounds even.  A hair lighter at times.  

I don't really like how you have to squeeze the lever to get it to unlock the trigger.  Yet it's a cool safety design.  Every once in a while it likes to pinch.  I'm a bit worried that recoil will be harsh, it's been a while since I shot it.  The marlins are a bit beefier.  But that also makes for a very handy gun to tote around.  

I believe the Miroku-made Winchesters say so the barrel.  At least, the advertisements I've seen show them that way.

Miroku makes very high quality stuff so there is no need to worry about the quality of your "Winchester", yes yours is definitely made it Japan. None of my Miroku made Winchesters are marked made in Japan but I believe that is a newer thing they started doing. The Winchester 94 action isn't at all difficult to take apart, more time consuming and more parts than a 336 yes but it's not hard by any means. I've got Remlin 336's and JM stamped Marlins and I'd take a Miroku made Winchester or Browning over any of them.

The front sight hood should come off if you press agains the back of it, push towards the muzzle. It is basically just a spring so it will be stiff at first but it will go. The rear is just dovetailed on and can be drifted out just like any other dovetailed sight.

If you buy the Marble's peep sight it comes with a longer tang screw and the front screw that will need to be drilled and tapped by you or a gunsmith if you can't or don't want to do it. Pretty simple job if ya have the right tools. I prefer the Marble sight to the Lyman as it has windage and elevation adjustments. You can drift out the rear sight and replace it with a blank dovetail filler. All are available from Brownells.

I saw Williams aperture on Brownells.  And also an XS I believe that looked kind of weird as to how it might be attached.  Looked like possibly a rail attachment.  But not off to one side.  Where do you get a marble?  

Thanks for the info guys.  I might have to get this thing to the range soon and give it a whirl.

XS sights are really awesome if you are into practical field shooting. Here's a shot of my 94 Trapper 44 with XS ghost ring sights.

If you're going to have to pay a 'smith to D&T the receiver anyway another (more expensive) option is a reproduction Lyman 21 sight.
Lyman 21

It looks a little better on a 95 Winchester IMO but they were on original 94's as well.

Oh now I see how that works.  Nice.  I guess that needs to be drilled and tapped too.  But that is pretty cool.  I'll be honest, I use the ghostring on my AR's a lot.  But I'm not completely sure how accurate I am with it out past 60 yards.  I don't notice a heck of a lot of difference between the ghostring and smaller ap when shooting at closer distances.  I need to do a better test.  I think when I bench it at 50 yards I'm starting to notice a difference, but from what I recall I did that test with a carbine.  The one time I did that test with my rifle, I don't think my group was much bigger with the ghostring at 50 yards.

Anyways....  point being I can see the utility in a bigger ap.  They definitely allow for better speed and better low light shooting.

The XS set up comes with two apertures but I use the large ones on the 94 and my Ruger Deerfield. Look at Skinner sights too. You can change Skinner apertures without rezeroing. I like the simple, uncluttered design of the XS,  but I hunt in thick woods and run the big aperture all the time.

The newest Winchester 94's are made at the Miroku plant in Japan.  They are owned by FN, as is Browning, The Winchester deal is just a licensing agreement with Olin who owns the rights to the Winchester name.  From 1983 to 2006, the Winchester 94 was built in the New Haven plant by USRA, under license from Olin.  Both of these are actually the 94AE (for Angle Eject), model.  Since about 1953 Winchester 94s have been drilled and tapped for a receiver sight mounted on the side.  Sometime around 2000 they started drilling and tapping the top of the receiver rails for top mounted scope mounts.  IIRC, the XS sights use those holes.

A definite improvement in my shooting came with the use of a tang mounted peep sight in conjunction with a globe front sight.  The Lyman 17A series has several different profile front sights.  One of my favorites is the post and a yellow disc.  The yellow disc has a hole in the center, the post comes to the bottom of this hole.  For target shooting, I just center the bull in this "hole" and line up the post with the center at the bottom of the bull.  I have this sight setup on 3 different rifles, a 20" mdl 94, a 26" mdl 94 and a 24-¼" mdl 1885.

Well, back to the basement to see if this thing is drilled and tapped on the top.  That would be a good option.  

I get the 6 oclock hold would be the right way to go with a round front post like that.  And I've never liked the looks of a tang sight, but I can see the point of them.  I thought they might be in the way and get knocked rather easily.

OK, I see that it's drilled and tapped on the top of the receiver.  Very cool.

Those Japanese make a nice gun.
I have two Browning and both are fine guns. I have a couple buddies that bought the Winchester gun and they use them quite often.

Good to know.

I got the front blade shroud off.   Debating on if I shoot it tomorrow or not.  I have so many I want to shoot.  I think the 03A3 is going to be getting my attention for the most part....

The Miroku's are fine rifles, I  have a B-92 in 44mag/spec and a B-1886 carbine in 45-70 both are great shooters and lookers.  As for sights I did a little looking and found original Lyman tang sights for them which adds a few inches to the sight plane and looks period correct.

I didn't realize you could get 6 in the tube and 1 in the chamber.  Figured that out tonight.  That's decent capacity.

Miroku builds great guns!!!  However, the '94 is a Rube Goldberg design.

OK, what do you mean by that?

Yeah, I would like to know the answer to this as well. Can't be too bad a design since it has been in almost CONTINUOUS production for oh what sumtin like 120+ years. I guess the 1911 is a Rube Golberg design as well. Well JJREA, we're waiting......................

I didn't say that.  I was questioning what he said..........  (rugrat)  The thought never crossed my mind that there is anything wrong with the 94's design.  I do have some Marlins that are nice.  But I've got nothing against the winchester.

My mistake. I meant to for my reply to apply to rugrats comment

I have a browning 1886 made in Japan and it is one sweet rifle, same as the modern winchester 1886 but with no safety or rebounding hammer , the browning b92 ( 1892 ) is very nice as well.

What does it matter if it's marked .30 WCF if it's actually the same cartridge?  I've never really seen 94's with horrible finish, but admittedly I'm not an expert.  And so what if they changed the ejection pattern.  Does it cause malfunctions or something?

Aaaah.  That doesn't sound like a design issue though.

JJREA,

Enjoy your Winchester.  I've owned several Browning made Japanese guns before.  1895 in .30-06 and 1886 Carbine in .45-70.  Beautiful guns and shooters.  Added a apeture sight to the 95'.  Traded both away back in the 90s .  I did have a 41' dated 94' that I gave my oldest son about the same time for his first deer rifle in the mid 90s.




CD

I've had three total Miroku-made weapons: a Browning BPS that I sold, and now I have a new production Winchester 1886 and a Browning BLR.

All of them have had impeccable quality.  The BPS I sold because I needed something a bit lighter for hunting.  But that gun was built like an absolute tank.  I love my Benelli SuperNova that I replaced it with, but the BPS was the better built shotgun.

The BLR and the 1886 are also excellent guns.  The BLR is my main hunting rifle, and the 1886 is the only gun in my collection I really refer to as a safe queen.  It's too nice of a gun for me to want to beat it up in the woods.  But like the BPS, the 1886 is built like a tank.

Don't have any doubts, as Miroku makes great, great firearms.

The '94 is not a very dependable lever gun.  You rarely see them in competition.  And, when you do, they often cause more trouble than they're worth.  The one interesting variation of the gun, however, is the 38-55, which can be an excellent "long range" lever gun when loads are worked up properly.

LOL

What kind of trouble do you see????

I guess I'm needing to take it to the range next time I go......

What the hell are you talking about, the 94 was not designed as a competition gun as we do competition shoots these days, but it sure did a bang up job back in the day and it is a fine shooting weapon these days, we have better tools these days, but the 94 is a classic and it still brings down a hell of a lot of game animals every single year without a hitch or a burp.

Came here to post this. I have run 92s and 94s as fast as I can shuck them. As long as you FULLY cycle the lever, they have run perfectly for me. Methinks Rugrat doesn't have much real life experience with the Winchester designs. If you do RR my apologies. But in 50 years of shooting a wide variety of competitions and shooting games, I can honestly say I have never heard anyone say that Winchester lever guns are not "reliable".

There again, doesn't really sound like a design issue.  Just end user.  Although you could argue a shorter throw would alleviate that......

Well  JJ, I am not ready to second guess the designers of one of the most popular guns ever designed, for what it was designed for and the day and age it was designed in, it was a revolution and it still performs what it was designed to do.  That said, as we progress along, younger people demand different things..that is a fact of life.

This thread is one of the worst threads for inaccurate, dead wrong information I've seen here on AR15.com and that's saying something.  Terrible design, unreliable, poorly made.  Are you idiots kidding me?  The young punks that spout shit this have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.  The diarrhea spewing from their mouths is disgusting.

Well FWIW, I thought it kind of odd that someone would dis the ole venerable 94 but I didn't want to complete dismiss something somebody has to say.  Maybe they knew something I didn't know about lever guns.  I'm no expert.   But those are some strong words COSteve.  

I'm sorry that my thread has turned out that way to you.

My mind still sort of explodes when I think about the choices I had back in the 80's and 90's hunting.  Compared to now, it was nothing.  LOL.   And yet somehow they worked.

Anybody know how much these went for in stores about 10-12 years ago.  Or what the value is now on a LNIB?

Is 30-30 a really popular ctg in competition?  Big recoil and all...

I thought those guys all shot 357 or other pistol ctgs and therefore go to one of the short 73 or 92 etc designs.