After the gym today I had some time to kill, so I went next door to the LGS to finger fuck some new guns.

I've been lusting after a lever action for a while now to deer hunt with. I don't need a new rifle, just something new to shoot deer with. Obviously the 30-30 is the tried and true deer cartridge, but I have been considering something in the .45-70 caliber. What's the effective range of this round? Currently I'm using my AR chambered in 6.8SPC and have taken deer out to about 200 yards with a Leupold VX-R 1-4.

I started playing with their Marlins. They have two in .45-70, one blued, one stainless.

Both seemed like nice guns, light, short, and shouldered well...except...

CONS:
1). The only things I didn't like were the sights - they were hard for me to see. Does anyone make fiber optic sights? I noticed both were drilled and tapped so I might add a rail and scope.

2). And the lever seemed slim/narrow. I don't know how I'd get a gloved hand in there during deer season. Are there any aftermarket larger loops?

Lastly, what's with the safeties?!

Basically, I'm looking at the Marlin 1895GS in .45-70 for deer hunting. Good gun/round, or should I be looking at other lever actions?

EDIT: I ended up getting the Henry H010 - Pics on Page 2

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Marlin's are the "go-to" lever guns now days, unless you're willing to drop the coin for a much nicer BLR,  Henry or one of the Italian replicas.  Yea, the safety sucks, but there you are.  Big loop levers and fiber optic sights are readily available, check Brownell's and the like.  Not a big fan of the 45-70 for whitetail.  Heavy recoil, ballistics like a football, lot's of meat damage.

Care to expound?

I stopped shooting my 12ga in favor of a lighter 20 ga 11-87 with rifled cantilever barrel...the last few seasons I've been carrying my 44 Ruger carbine, or my 6.8. I have also used my 30-06 and 303 British.

Is the kick and meat damage any worse than a shotgun slug?

Ballistics worse than a 12 ga?

Leave the safety - it's nice when you're unloading.  If you really want it gone, there is a blank kit that makes it look like a screw.



There are at least two big-loop levers available.  I had the Wild West Guns version and found it to be so big as to be ridiculous.  I sent it back still in the package.  There's a guy you can track down on Marlinowners.com that will take your lever in trade for a larger version in various shapes.

I got a little better useable range with the gummy tip hornaday bullets, but not a lot.  At 250 the bullet starts dropping a lot.  But mine is a timber gun for elk, and I do like it for that.

 

Sure.  I NOT saying there's anything wrong with the 45-70 or that's it's a particularly bad choice.  I'm just saying that in my view there's other calibers that shoot flatter and have less recoil.  Surely lots of game animals have been successful taken with the famous 45-70.  Lot's of history there and the cartridge is with out doubt very, very effective.  I've only shot 4 or 5 rifles in 45-70 and all the light weight guns had stout recoil.  Something I find less and less desirable as I age.  Ballistic charts speak for themselves.  Shot placement is directly related to meat damage, but not all shots are as perfect as we'd like, and a 45-70 does leave an impressive exit wound.  Not to say that a 180 grain Core-Lok out of a 30-06 doesn't!  Again, nothing wrong with the 45-70, but, Gents, I love to have a dollar for every whitetail taken with a 30-30.

Do you have idea who that would be or where I could find him on the MO forum?  I did a quick search and didn't find anything.  I haven't been over there for a while,

Thanks,

Have a look at the Henry H010

It comes with XS peep sights, and does not have the manual safety

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/45-70-lever-action/

Pretty sweet guns right there.



Being the owner of an 1895 SBL, and having experienced the recoil of a stout load, I'd have to choose the Henry with the decelerator pad.



The one with the brass receiver is beautiful, though, and if all I was shooting were lighter loads I'd tote that around all day.







 

This guy:



http://www.mulemangunworks.com/mule-loops-custom-levers/
 

The .45-70 is one of those classics that just makes you smile. It's effective on anything this side of Africa, and much of the stuff there, as well. It's actually not punishing to shoot (despite common wisdom) until you get to dangerous game-level loads.

Yes, it's not a beanfield rifle, but neither is it restricted to 100 yards as some detractors would have you believe. Since most Eastern deer are taken at 100 yards or so, it's kind of a non-issue.  

Meat damage (in terms of bloodshot, good-only-for-dogfood meat) is more a function of velocity than caliber or bullet weight, IME. The big, heavy, relatively slow bullets like the .45-70 cause LESS ruined meat than bullets hitting at magnum speeds. Match the bullet to the game.

Recoil is what you make it. You can load .45-70 up to elephant stomping levels, or down to .45 Colt levels for plinking. Deer will happily succumb to Trapdoor-level loads, which are easy on the shoulder.

Sights are actually difficult because there are so many choices. You can easily replace the front sight with a fiber optic bead, or you can visit XS Sights' website http://www.xssights.com/ and choose a big white dot, a white dot with tritium insert, a white stripe (my favorite), or a plain black front post. For rear sight, you can stay with the barrel-mounted sight or go for an aperture sight. XS has a few options there, too.
Both Lyman and Williams make click-adjustable aperture sights for the 1895, which I think are a bit blocky. If you don't anticipate doing "5 clicks up, 2 right" in the field, you can choose the more graceful, blended look of the Skinner aperture sight in at least 3 flavors http://www.skinnersights.com/ and a front sight in plain black or brass.
If you want optics, all of the usual suspects (plus a few with whom you probably aren't familiar) make scope bases for the 1895 Marlin. There are also scout scope mounts from XS sights and the "Ace in the Hole" combination pic rail and aperture sight from Williams Sights, and a similar sight/rail setup from XS. I'm sure I've forgotten a couple.
Stick with a low-power, straight tube scope, and mount it as low as you can to preserve the balance and handling of the rifle. I like the Leupold 1-4x. The Weaver V-3 is also good, and usually fairly inexpensive.  

As to levers, the most practical solution at this time seems to be Muleman (link noted above). The Dave Clay (DRC) loop is my favorite, but finding one is a bit of a chore. He might still have an E-Bay store, but availability is spotty. Muleman gets v. good reviews over on Marlin Owners.

Where do you hunt?  If you want to use it in Ohio your only choice is 45-70 or other straight wall cartridges.  

I personally like the 444, shoots a little flatter with lighter bullets. The williams peep sights and are nice and worth the money.

DP

I hunt mainly in NY. I have a camp in the ADKs where it's thick mountainous terrain and also in the southern zone where it's old stand timber. I usually carry my 6.8 AR or .44 Ruger carbine which is light and short and easy to carry around all day. I thought of using a lever action due to its size and weight. Not to mention the nostalgia and romance of times past of hunting the big woods carrying a lever action.

Dude, I smoked a deer with a flat nose 405GE this year and the damage was WAY less than my AR.

I would expect so.  Assuming deer would be shot at relatively short ranges due to the .45-70's rainbow trajectory, a fairly light bullet and charge in a .45-70 would be plenty for a whitetail.  You don't need a massive Grizzly stopper cartridge to hunt whitetail, and a heavy, flat nose lead bullet travelling at modest velocity is going to due less meat damage than a small, lightweight bullet that comes screaming into the deer and then explodes on it's way through.

Safeties can be replaced.  I put a saddle ring in it's place.  If you go to a larger lever, only go to one large enough to use gloves.  The overly large (think Rifleman) are slow to operate and somewhat clumsy.

After market sight abound.  Optical sighting options range from a traditional scope to a scout scope and any number of red dot or holographic sights.

Meat damage, tailor the ammo you are using to your expected game.  No since using Buffalo Bore stompers on a small deer.



Not shown here are the saddle ring and the slightly larger lever loop.

Is there any difference in recoil between the 444 and 45/70


 

I've never shot a 47/70

But factory 444 doent haven't have to worry about blowing up old trap doors.  So they tend to kick more than standard 45-70 loads.  I'm sure the full house 405gn kick much harder, I'm used to 12gauge slugs and the max loads 444 in the 240gn range arent bad.

Oh boy now you went and did it! That argument has been going on for years and years.



 

Okay let's get it rolling.  The .444 is only actual .429.  The 45-70 is really .458.  So it could have been called the .460, sorta like the .38 spl is really only a .35 cal.  But since caliber names have often been over stated, they could have called it the 47-70 and no one would have given it a second thought.

I love my guidegun for woods hunting. I like the Hornady 350 FP loaded to about 1950fps.

I'm torn between a pistol grip, or traditional straight stock....suggestions?!!

Also, for those of you who hunt in states that restrict magazine/tube capacity (3 in Ohio, and 5 in New York) during deer season, what do you do with the larger capacity guns - ie 6 round tubes?

I'm reconsidering the 1895GBL, 1895SBL or 1895GSBL...except I don't want to mess around with a plug...but I like the looks of them....

I like the pistol grip.

Ohio - you dont have to plug the mag anymore(honor system)  Just don't have more than 3 in your rifle/shotgun.

But if you had to plug - it would be easy to come up with something to stick in the mag tube.

I hated the straight grip on my guidegun at first, I had always used lever guns with pistol grip stocks. Eventually I really came to like the straight grip.

I debated whether I wanted a straight stock with the short barrel, or the pistol grip with the longer barrel. Ended up getting the straight stock yesterday. I like the more traditional look to it. I plan on using it this year for deer, and then sending it out to someone to do some work on it (smooth up the action, trigger job, and maybe extend the mag tube).

I couldn't bring myself to purchase a Remlin. After handling a Henry and comparing them side by side, the fit, finish, feel, action, and trigger were head and shoulders above the Remlin. The checkering on the Remlin looked as if a two year old scratched it in the wood and the action was gritty and tough to manipulate. Whereas the Henry is smooth and checkering is sharp and wood is fit to the receiver.

Well, on Thursday, the local gun store was having a moving sale and had everything marked down to 20% off, so I picked up a Leupold 2-7x33 scope.

Then today I went to their sister store where they were having a Ducks Unlimited raffle/party (haven't won anything as of yet) and used their 10% off to purchase the Henry H010 and two boxes of shells.

It's a beautiful gun. I can't wait to give it to my son when he gets old enough to hunt with it. Hopefully it stays in the family for many years.

The scope isn't mounted yet. I need a set of rings and base. What are your suggestions for some low rings and base?

Take a look at DNZ mounts.I don't know if they make a mount for that rifle though.

That is a beautiful rifle...excellent choice.  I've never handled that particular model but those that I have, including those I own, are just awesome to shoot or just work the action empty.  Looking forward to hearing how it shoots, I have high expectations considering how well mine shoot in .45 Colt.

See if EGW makes a picatinny base.  Also check out Brownell's, as they sell an excellent base under their own brand.  As for rings, I'd recommend quick detach style rings from Warne, Talley or Leupold.

Lots of meat damage, that's more of the urban legends fame.  Meat damage happens based on one of several factors.  Bullet type, and its construction, shot placement, and velocity.  Velocity plays a huge factor in meat damage, no matter the shot placement or bullet type.  Your run of the mill 270, a much vaunted deer caliber will do more damage, at its high velocity, compared to a sedate 1400fps load from a 45/70.  The faster the bullet, and the more violent the expansion, the more hydrostatic shock you will see, and more meat damage.  45/70 is more of a hole saw going thru a deer, unless you pop a shoulder.  A 270, or any of the hyper magnums will blast away when it hits.  

Now recoil, that all depends.  Standard loads can be pretty mild.  Reload them with trailboss, and it's a good home defender gun.  Load them with H322, and it surpasses my 300RUM in shoulder pain.  I finally replaced the recoil pad on my 1895GS with a limbsaver, tamed that thing right down!  Stock pads suck, pure and simple.

Since I bought this gun for my son's 1st birthday, I had to try it out to make sure it was going to shoot/kill for him.

I'd say it did its job.