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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:38:42 PM EDT
Felt recoil.
I have a really nice customized guide gun that I have NEVER fired. The reason is that I have problems with a couple disc in my neck, and I actually fear additional damage the felt recoil could cause. My M14s don't bother me, so I guess I will sell off the .45-70 soon. 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:07:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Felt recoil. I have a really nice customized guide gun that I have NEVER fired. The reason is that I have problems with a couple disc in my neck, and I actually fear additional damage the felt recoil could cause. My M14s don't bother me, so I guess I will sell off the .45-70 soon. http://www.athenswater.com/images/45-70.EGG.jpg 325 grain Hornady FTX loads shouldn't be a problem. 405 grain JFN Buffalo Bore?  Nice gun! |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:27:26 PM EDT
[#2]
If recoil in .45-70 is a problem, then taking up reloading is the solution.
As a cartridge reloader, it will be easy to run the power level up or down to suit. There is no law which says you have to only reload full power .45-70 ammo. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:10:19 PM EDT
[#3]
I think you need some lighter loads; like stated before, loading up the ammo might help you dial in the right amount of accuracy and recoil reduction, so you can still enjoy that gun.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:15:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Factory Remington 405 grainers are loaded to low pressures so they can be safely fired in the old trapdoors. IIRC, only around 1400fps, and kick about like an ar. Might give them a shot before giving up on that nice rifle.
ETA: 1330 FPS http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/rifle-cartridges.aspx?panel=1#data |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:24:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Factory Remington 405 grainers are loaded to low pressures so they can be safely fired in the old trapdoors. IIRC, only around 1400fps, and kick about like an ar. Might give them a shot before giving up on that nice rifle. ETA: 1330 FPS http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/rifle-cartridges.aspx?panel=1#data One of my favorite loads to shoot. Very pleasant. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:03:03 PM EDT
[#6]
I appreciate the replies.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Factory Remington 405 grainers are loaded to low pressures so they can be safely fired in the old trapdoors. IIRC, only around 1400fps, and kick about like an ar. Might give them a shot before giving up on that nice rifle. ETA: 1330 FPS http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/rifle-cartridges.aspx?panel=1#data I believe that is the ammo pictured. The box reads: Remington express rifle, 45-70 R4570G The factory says 1330 for 24", so my barrel that's 5 1/2 inches shorter would put me at about 1030 - Right? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:07:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I appreciate the replies. I believe that is the ammo pictured. The box reads: Remington express rifle, 45-70 R4570G The factory says 1330 for 24", so my barrel that's 6 inches shorter would put me at about 1030 - Right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I appreciate the replies. Quoted:
Factory Remington 405 grainers are loaded to low pressures so they can be safely fired in the old trapdoors. IIRC, only around 1400fps, and kick about like an ar. Might give them a shot before giving up on that nice rifle. ETA: 1330 FPS http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/rifle-cartridges.aspx?panel=1#data I believe that is the ammo pictured. The box reads: Remington express rifle, 45-70 R4570G The factory says 1330 for 24", so my barrel that's 6 inches shorter would put me at about 1030 - Right? In theory, but I bet you still get over 1200. Seemed to take down pigs with authority through my guide gun. Very little recoil. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:08:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks, but maybe it's not worth the risk.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:31:15 PM EDT
[#9]
11.5 -12.0 grains of Unique under a 405 gr LFN should give you around 1030-1070 fps in a 22" carbine - a nice smokeless load that largely replicates black powder ballistics.
I use a 3/4" square polyester wad (cut from 1/4" thick polyester quilt batting from the local sewing store) pressed lightly on top of the charge with the eraser end of a pencil to take up space in the case and keep the charge against the primer for consistent ignition, and o avoid pressure spikes. I've found it to be an exceptionally accurate load, particularly in my Sharps where it will give 5 shot groups approaching 1 MOA with decent quality cast bullets. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 8:23:26 PM EDT
[#10]
You might want to consult your doctor and see if there is a real risk of injury.
If you had a previous injury and it has completely healed you might be worried about nothing. Personally I would rather sell or trade a gun than end up with a spinal injury, just saying... After a car wreck that broke two vertebra in my neck and two vertabra in my back (all four kin a row) I sold off all of my hard kickers. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 8:52:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might want to consult your doctor and see if there is a real risk of injury. If you had a previous injury and it has completely healed you might be worried about nothing. Personally I would rather sell or trade a gun than end up with a spinal injury, just saying... After a car wreck that broke two vertebra in my neck and two vertabra in my back (all four kin a row) I sold off all of my hard kickers. Excellent point... Two ruptured disc in my neck and spinal stenosis - Not really worth the risk My HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 is another hard kicker that may also need to go. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:08:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Clever way to put up a for sale ad in this section.
This is not General Discussion. AeroE |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:39:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clever way to put up a for sale ad in this section. No, just a great way to gain constructive input. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 10:43:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Factory 405s out of that rifle are a real pussycat. Seriously. Like shooting 38 specials out of a 357 mag. There is no reason to sell it before you at least give it a shot.
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Posted: 6/26/2015 11:17:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Factory 405s out of that rifle are a real pussycat. Seriously. Like shooting 38 specials out of a 357 mag. There is no reason to sell it before you at least give it a shot. I have to agree. And as I indicated earlier, this is just a for sale ad. Cloaking it as "constructive input" doesn't change that. |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 2:57:46 PM EDT
[#16]
 I appreciate the constructive comments.
I think I will fire the first round from the hip, and work my way up. If it works out, I will look into reloading as planned. |
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Posted: 6/27/2015 4:14:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I have a few 45-70's including a guide gun.
Firing normal level factory loads the recoil is not very bad really. I shoot a lot of the 300gr offerings such as the Winchester Super-X and Ballistic Sivertips and was supprised by the lack of recoil. With normal level loads, the 45-70 is not a sharp kick, more like a slow drawn out push, not painful or jolting. I would rather shoot it than most 270's and 30-06's. |
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Posted: 6/27/2015 8:23:31 PM EDT
[#18]
If you don't reload, the following would be a good lower recoil option:
http://www.black-hills.com/shop/cowboy-ammo/45-70/ 405 gr cast bullet at 1250 fps |
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Posted: 6/28/2015 3:55:43 PM EDT
[#19]
try some trail boss loads .powder puff loads but fun to shoot
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Posted: 6/28/2015 9:35:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
try some trail boss loads .powder puff loads but fun to shoot Trailboss + 45-70 = awesome fun! I cast my own projectiles, and I love sending 350-405 grain lead slugs down range so that the impact is louder that the shot fired. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:09:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Like the OP, I have a 45-70 GG and a back that is not in the best of condition. I shoot a lot of 350-400 grain cast loads that have rather soft recoil, for this caliber. Some of the 'down loaded' ammo and a better recoil pad sure help. I do have some 'stout' reloads for camp, just in case, case! I do not shoot these much but just enough to know that I can hit what I am aiming at.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 7:37:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent point... Two ruptured disc in my neck and spinal stenosis - Not really worth the risk My HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 is another hard kicker that may also need to go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You might want to consult your doctor and see if there is a real risk of injury. If you had a previous injury and it has completely healed you might be worried about nothing. Personally I would rather sell or trade a gun than end up with a spinal injury, just saying... After a car wreck that broke two vertebra in my neck and two vertabra in my back (all four kin a row) I sold off all of my hard kickers. Excellent point... Two ruptured disc in my neck and spinal stenosis - Not really worth the risk My HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 is another hard kicker that may also need to go. I have similar issues but they are low back and don't keep me from shooting high recoil guns, just shooting them prone. I totally understand not wanting to risk re-injuring yourself, that's a dangerous area of the body. The .45-70 is one of those great calibers that can be loaded mild to wild and are available as such in factory ammo for folks who don't reload. Start low and enjoy your rifle if you want to still shoot it. I've wanted a lever action .45-70 myself but it's not in the budget. It's a great caliber. I had a Benelli M1 Super 90 tactical myself and I was shocked how bad it kicked compared to other shotguns I've used. I can definitely understand getting rid of that one. I loved mine but it was uncomfortable to shoot. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 9:44:34 PM EDT
[#23]
I load a 405gr bullet with 5.0 grains of imr4198 under 50.0 grains of black powder and then a felt wonder wad in starline brass. More of a push than a kick.
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Posted: 6/30/2015 9:01:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have similar issues but they are low back and don't keep me from shooting high recoil guns, just shooting them prone. I totally understand not wanting to risk re-injuring yourself, that's a dangerous area of the body. The .45-70 is one of those great calibers that can be loaded mild to wild and are available as such in factory ammo for folks who don't reload. Start low and enjoy your rifle if you want to still shoot it. I've wanted a lever action .45-70 myself but it's not in the budget. It's a great caliber. I had a Benelli M1 Super 90 tactical myself and I was shocked how bad it kicked compared to other shotguns I've used. I can definitely understand getting rid of that one. I loved mine but it was uncomfortable to shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You might want to consult your doctor and see if there is a real risk of injury. If you had a previous injury and it has completely healed you might be worried about nothing. Personally I would rather sell or trade a gun than end up with a spinal injury, just saying... After a car wreck that broke two vertebra in my neck and two vertabra in my back (all four kin a row) I sold off all of my hard kickers. Excellent point... Two ruptured disc in my neck and spinal stenosis - Not really worth the risk My HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 is another hard kicker that may also need to go. I have similar issues but they are low back and don't keep me from shooting high recoil guns, just shooting them prone. I totally understand not wanting to risk re-injuring yourself, that's a dangerous area of the body. The .45-70 is one of those great calibers that can be loaded mild to wild and are available as such in factory ammo for folks who don't reload. Start low and enjoy your rifle if you want to still shoot it. I've wanted a lever action .45-70 myself but it's not in the budget. It's a great caliber. I had a Benelli M1 Super 90 tactical myself and I was shocked how bad it kicked compared to other shotguns I've used. I can definitely understand getting rid of that one. I loved mine but it was uncomfortable to shoot. I haven't fired the M1 S 90 in about 10 years, so I guess I won't miss it if it's gone. As for the GG, I will try the soft factory loads and see how it goes. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 11:37:13 AM EDT
[#25]
The factory 405's are very mild.
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Posted: 7/10/2015 11:07:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The factory 405's are very mild. The Remington 405's are so light, that I got unburnt stick powder all down the barrel and in the action after one shot. 
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Posted: 7/10/2015 11:14:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Remington 405's are so light, that I got unburnt stick powder all down the barrel and in the action after one shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The factory 405's are very mild. The Remington 405's are so light, that I got unburnt stick powder all down the barrel and in the action after one shot. I've shot a lot of Rem 405 and have never had that happen. |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 2:28:11 PM EDT
[#28]
I shoot max loaded 405's through my guide gun quite a bit. It is not too bad.
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Posted: 7/14/2015 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot max loaded 405's through my guide gun quite a bit. It is not too bad. Do you have two ruptured disc & spinal stenosis in your neck? |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 4:40:43 PM EDT
[#30]
I've got spinal arthritis and two rebuilt rotator cuffs. One of my favorite 100yd plinking loads is 10.5gr of Unique behind a 405gr LFP in my Marlin 1895CB. A real soft load that gives 2" groups with Skinner sights off the bench.
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Posted: 7/14/2015 5:34:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have two ruptured disc & spinal stenosis in your neck? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I shoot max loaded 405's through my guide gun quite a bit. It is not too bad. Do you have two ruptured disc & spinal stenosis in your neck? Only one herniated disk for me. 
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Posted: 7/14/2015 7:46:40 PM EDT
[#32]
I used to shoot 45-70 trapdoor springfield - I used 10r Unique behind 400 gr lead. It was very mild and accurate out to 50+ yards. Easy on gun and easy on me....give it a try
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:03:09 AM EDT
[#33]
I like the full length tube on that gun.
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Posted: 8/8/2015 2:13:53 AM EDT
[#34]
I know that this is heresy in the lever gun forum, but if you would have a need for the advantages of a .45-70, but physically the risk is too great to deal with the recoil, you may consider going with a .50 Beowulf AR with a brake and recoil-compensating stock. Set up like that, there is very little recoil, nothing like a .45-70.
Edit: Here is the configuration I'm talking about:  |
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Posted: 8/9/2015 4:21:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that this is heresy in the lever gun forum, but if you would have a need for the advantages of a .45-70, but physically the risk is too great to deal with the recoil, you may consider going with a .50 Beowulf AR with a break and recoil-compensating stock. Set up like that, there is very little recoil, nothing like a .45-70. Not heresy, just naughty. Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 8/19/2015 6:14:37 PM EDT
[#36]
As some others have said, Trail Boss powder could be your friend. If you don't want to spend much, buy a Lee Loader for about $30 and you would be set to reload. You'll barely have any recoil with Trail Boss loads.
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Posted: 8/22/2015 12:29:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Kick-Eez recoil pad will help a lot.
A 400 gr 45 cal cast bullet at 1200fps will penetrate just about any animals chest. |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 12:31:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that this is heresy in the lever gun forum, but if you would have a need for the advantages of a .45-70, but physically the risk is too great to deal with the recoil, you may consider going with a .50 Beowulf AR with a brake and recoil-compensating stock. Set up like that, there is very little recoil, nothing like a .45-70. Edit: Here is the configuration I'm talking about: https://762precision.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/bear-country-beowulf.jpg?w=1000 I have one of those, although I use a LimbSaver instead of a recoil absorbing stock. With the muzzle brake and LimbSaver it's not exactly light recoil but it's definitely better than shooting hot .45-70! I would like to try one of the recoil absorbing stocks to see how it compares but I don't know anyone with one. |
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Posted: 12/13/2015 10:22:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Umarex and PMC make cowboy loads for 45/70, there are probably others that make them. They are very mild to shoot, I use them in my Marlin stainless guide gun to take discarded pallets apart with great joy; recoil never enters the mind.
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Posted: 12/16/2015 3:12:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a Guide Gun as well.
Hornady 325gr kicks like a 12g firing slugs. The ballistics are about the same so...makes sense. The low velocity 405gr cowboy stuff is a light tap in comparison. The 300gr cowboy loads kick less than a .44 Magnum out of a Marlin 1894 or Winchester 92/94 (the Guide Gun is heavier). Unless your doctor says stay away, I'd start with those 300gr cowboy loads since they are the lightest kicking ones you can buy. If you need to go lighter you're handloading or, yes, selling. |
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Posted: 12/17/2015 1:48:44 PM EDT
[#41]
It has been said a thousand times: The 45-70 can do anything if you hand load. If you don't load, all it can do is turn you black and blue.
It is a hand loader's dream cartridge. If you own a 45 2.1" you really have to load to benefit from it's potential. |
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Posted: 12/17/2015 4:07:05 PM EDT
[#42]
two words. trail boss! my co-worker plinks with his 45-70. I cast him a 340gr bullet and he loads it with trail boss powder. has virtually no recoil and it still smacks steel with authourity. I really enjoyed shooting it. also costs alot less to load and he said he doesn't even have to trim brass as its such a low pressure load so cases should last a long time.
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Posted: 12/18/2015 10:19:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
two words. trail boss! my co-worker plinks with his 45-70. I cast him a 340gr bullet and he loads it with trail boss powder. has virtually no recoil and it still smacks steel with authourity. I really enjoyed shooting it. also costs alot less to load and he said he doesn't even have to trim brass as its such a low pressure load so cases should last a long time. I, too, have had excellent results with Trail Boss in the 2.1. I found better accuracy at the light end of the suggested range of loadings than at the heavy end. |
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Posted: 12/20/2015 6:29:31 PM EDT
[#44]
I have a guide gun like yours OP, and I wanted to see how bad the recoil could be with some stout loads.
Worked up some 420 gr hard cast gas checked. I hit 1800 fps and that was beating the shit out of me. I mean painful. The muzzle blast knocked my chrono and tripod over. Then I came to my senses and worked up some sane loads, but even with them there is a fair amount of recoil. That is a very light gun, I usually wear my past shield on the range when shooting, and it really spreads out the impact. Good luck. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 2:57:56 AM EDT
[#45]
I sold my 1895 ABL last year and miss it badly. Will be looking for another one as soon as I sell an acog I have.
edit: sold the acog in four hours. Looking for a Marlin 45/70 now. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:30:55 AM EDT
[#46]
I've been shooting Marlin 45-70s since about 1990. At one time everything I loaded was balls to the wall and kicked like a mule. In '09 I had fusion surgery done on my neck and like you, was concerned about heavy recoil causing problems. I started loading the equivalent of the Remington 405 JSP load. Seems to kick a little less than a 30-30 and kills wild hogs just as dead as the heavy loads did.
I've shot some heavy loads since then, without any problems. But I enjoy it just as much shooting midrange loads with a heavy cast bullet. I've got a supply of a wide flat point 405cast bullet that whacks hogs like the hammer of Thor in loads without excessive recoil. |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 11:42:22 AM EDT
[#47]
I appreciate all of the replies, and I am taking notes because I have not sold the rifle.
Merry Christmas to all. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#48]
If you hand load, don't dorget about black powder. I use 55gr 2fg black powder and a felt over powder was and a cast saeco 405gr bullet. Mild recoil and lots of smoke. Black powder is more of a shove vs a sharp kick. Only downside is your not going to get your BP loads supersonic. You could even load 50gr of BP loose without a drop tube and use the felt wad as filler and then use a lighter 350gr bullet for even less recoil.
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