Looking for a large safe and am leaning towards Sturdy Safe.  I like that the metal thickness is significantly thicker than competiors and can be upgradedone even more.   I also know they are not UL tested, I will get fire liner and am not worried.  They arent fancy and that doesnt bother me either. I have read mixed review and am buying something very soon.  Anyone have one?   Upgrades i should do? Any input is appreciated.   Thanks!

I purchased a 36x24x72 last fall.  I upgraded the steel (4ga body with 7ga added panels).   Safe is well built and welds look good.. The door was easily removable (with a winch, just lifts off) which made moving it to the second floor much easier.  Had a minor problem and customer service was great.  You speak to the owner of the company and/or his daughter.  I feel very secure with the safety of my collection.  I would recommend it.

I have two Sturdy gun safes: one with fire lining and one without and I have no complaints on either. For what they offer and for how solid the door is constructed their standard 7ga bodied safe is pretty good as far as gun safes go. My last gun safe from them had the upgraded steel 3/8" door and 4ga body plus the fire liner. Really, I don't think their standard safes can be pried open or opened with a brute force attack such as with an ax etc but the thought of a little more steel made me feel a little better so I went with the upgrade since it didn't cost much more. Great people to work with too.

I don't understand why many people think fire ratings are unimportant. In my scenario I see it as more likely than someone trying to open the safe.  

Sturdy makes a quality welded steel box for the price. Past that you'll have to look elsewhere. It not reasonable to assume that a 7g safe from one manufacturer is more secure than a 10g from another. Both can be defeated in minutes by a couple hundred dollars of off the shelf tools.

I forgot that I had a couple more upgrades which I thought were worthwhile and didn't cost a lot more. The sides are also lined with an additional sheets of 7ga which wraps around behind the door jam and also 7ga on the roof as well (probably not necessary for a 72" tall safe). My safe is fire lined but another member here Esslar (?) has a non-fire lined Sturdy with the options that shows how it was done.

Sturdy is GTG from a security standpoint. If you add a lot of options you push up against a TL rated safe price.

That's broadly true, but the price point of Sturdy is somewhere between your standard Chicom big-box store safes and TL-rated safes.  7g vs 10g offers improved resistance to prying and puncturing attacks.  Their door frame, door, and fully-supported bolt structure is something not available on cheaper safes, and makes prying attacks much much harder.

A Sturdy is not competitive with a TL-rated safe.  Period.  But they offer an amount of additional protection (even beyond the thicker body) over safes that are priced lower.

The Sturdy is well made but has a roughness to it that some don't care for.
The only thing I wish they would do is pony up and have the safe fire tested by an independent lab.
I have some doubts about the fire lining past a very few minutes of burn time.

What causes you to doubt it?

Not to speak for heeler, but what makes me doubt the fire lining are two major points: (1) nobody else uses this material, or anything like it, in this application, and (2) they refuse to have it tested.  I'm sure the folks at Sturdy are smart, but I doubt they're smart enough to have come up with an idea that nobody else has ever thought of or tried.  And if insulation of the type they're using has been tried before, there's a reason it isn't being used.

Because of a lengthy discussion on this material in another thread in this safe forum.
I don't even think it works as well as fire rated sheetrock.
As I said Sturdy needs to pony up and let an independent lab fire test a safe.
They make a robust gun safe that is pretty burglary resistant but to spend several hundreds of dollars extra for that fire batting that has not been proven independently as far as making the contents reasonably safe in  a fire (that I know of) is more than I am willing to do.
We know sheetrock works pretty fair and we know a concrete type cladding works very well and all of these materials have been independently tested while being used as a fire insulator on gun safes.

There's no factual or engineering premise that their insulation would work effectively. Search for the thread.

Their insulation is like what you would see on an oven designed for keeping heat in or cold out. The Sheetrock and cement insulation release steam to diminish heat energy.

Or, like you might find on the Space Shuttle ...

Then let's see some real verified testing with it inside a gun safe Rockola.

Which is a very important consideration if you are planning on launching your gun safe into space.

LOL!! Here you go again. I guess it's been a few months since we got the Sturdy safe is the greatest because [insert example of something else unrelated to fire resistant safes]. I guess we're never going to get any actual test results or data.

Here is the thread with most of the good stuff from an engineer who has actually designed safes and fire tested many of them at independent testing labs including UL. You know, silly things that are verified and repeatable and not just conjecture and unfounded speculation:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/401046_Questions_for_AMSEC_TheSafeGuy.html&page=5

There's an actual test graph somewhere with no brands mentioned. It shows the importance of independant testing and the wide performance results.

That's like saying you aren't worried about a frayed cable on a suspension bridge, or aren't worried about doubling the stated capacity of a room, or towing a 10 ton trailer with your Toyota Camry.

This is the one thing that I absolutely despise about sturdy. They make all of these grandiose claims about their product being superior from a fire safety standpoint, but repeatedly fail to produce independently vetted data to corroborate their assessment.

You know what? Their fire lining will probably serve you fine if your toaster burns down. It may even be fine if your whole kitchen burns down, but are you really going to tell me that their word is good enough for you to trust your guns against a total burn-down, especially when every other manufacturer out there who is serious about fire ratings is conducting independent testing? Seriously? That's just playing with fire, my friend.

If you want a well made steel box that is RSC certified, I'm sure you will not find one that is more robust then a Sturdy. But don't go calling it a unicorn just because you want to overlook the horn strap on the horse.

Caveat Emptor.

It's always the same names trolling any and all Sturdy threads. There are plenty of controlled studies from well respected institutions showing how effective passive insulators are for fire protection, even a media vault with a 125F rating from the same company Amsec used to rate the BF. I keep hearing these "educated opinions" from the "experts" that a passively lined safe will only last 5 minutes in a fire, where's the evidence? I can answer that, there is no evidence it was pulled right out of the air.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Some of us "experts" touch more safes in a day than you have in your entire life.  People say pixie dust will only last 5 minutes in a fire too.  Where's the evidence?  Who's tested pixie dust?  To answer your question, safes are not tested unless they are suspected to work.  If your passively lined safe was a viable option, then many well known companies would be testing them, and marketing them.

Thanks for the replies.  I wasn't trying to stir the pot.  I think I will give Sturdy a shot, with a few upgrades.  I am more worried about break ins more than fire, that is where the Sturdys price and increased metal thickness make sense to me.  

I am a Firefighter, have taken precautions with my home, live on a street with a fire hydrant and blocks from the nearest fire station.  If my house burns down ill have a heck of a lot more problems than what happened to the safe contents.  Now if i bought a $500 safe, some one breaks in, gets in the safe, kills someone with a firearm im going to feel worse than if my guns are ruined in my safe when my house burns down.

sturdy is good to go. you made a great choice.

I have a sturdy. In my case I chose it for strictly pragmatic reasons that were relevant to my particular situation. I don't need fire protection therefore the whole debate between what kind of fire protection is best doesn't really come into play so I can't comment on that. I would be interested to see some test between similar products just for my own curiosity. Outside of this particular debate it was my understanding that for fire protection a gun safe is a poor choice overall and provided minimal if any protection Suddenly when we're comparing sturdy to another brand all the sudden the fire protection seems to be the key factor in the decision.

Anyway just for the OP's information, in looking at the various options in the price range and RSA class of safe I chose Sturdy because I judged it to offer superior protection against common forms of brute force attack, which in my judgment appears to be the main theft threat against a residential gun safe. Complex and skilled attacks done by knowledgeable people such as scopes and drills and all kinds of locksmith smith type techniques are really more of a threat for jewelry stores and other high dollar targets and are probably nearly unheard of for residential burglaries. There's no reason to drag all that equipment and spend all that time to carefully bypass these kinds of safes simply because with an RSA it would be much easier and faster just to cut into the side of it and be done. In many many cases a sturdy offers even better resistance to attacks than other RSA's and as far as I can tell it is fares no worse than even the best of them including the Amsec bf, Fort Knox and what have you. Any vulnerability sturdy has to certain types of attacks are inherent to the RSA class of container and an amsec BF or other comparable safe is still vulnerable to the same kinds of cutting the attacks etc.  

If you're able to inspect up close a sturdy safe and compare to others that you might see in the gun stores and seek shops of similar cost RSA of course, I think it's immediately clear that the difference in construction allows for a much more robust container. Obviously that's a generalization and I'm sure there's many good products out there. The door seat construction of the sturdy is extremely solid four gauge construction makes quite a bit of difference compared to what you might see in a the average liberty safe for example. It's not just the metal thickness but also the manner in which it's constructed it's hard to describe in a text some of the differences I've been able to notice. The other major factor is the way that the bolt work is designed it supported I don't think there's another RSA that has as strong or at least stronger bolt support than the study design it's extremely simple and rugged.

I know using a manufactures own video demonstrations is not the best way to judge comparative quality and strength between different safes. That having been said, it is interesting to note that you won't find any other safe manufacture slamming their door bolts with sledgehammers or taking 4 foot cheater bar pipes and cranking on the handles as hard as they can. Removing two bolts and then using a two man 5 foot prybar on the door, while it might be a stage scenario it's certainly demonstrates the capability of the door design itself and the stiffness and rigidity.

My sturdy safe has four gauge body and then additional seven gauge plating welded to all the exposed sides giving a body thickness of over three eights inch. In the world of safes that's not much and can be bypassed with the appropriate power tools however it's over triple the amount of steel in the average RSA and certainly is better than not. It's all about time the longer it takes the better your safe will work.

Please excuse any strange grammatical or word errors. This was voice transcribed

Do you mean a thread by a competitor?   Because that's the only basis of that thread--shuck and jive salesmanship.   Hey, you want some undercoating with that?

I'm not the biggest AMSEC fan, the same as I"m not the biggest Sturdy fan.  Both have their pros and cons.

But to be fair, they are not competitors.  Nowhere close to being competitors.  AMSEC is a real safe manufacturer that builds safes (sold under their own name and others) found all over the globe in installations where security is a serious factor:  Banks, jewelry stores, department stores, big box retailers, fast food restaurants, etc, etc.  You will not find Sturdy safes in those locations.

Sturdy is a gun safe manufacturer.  AMSEC is a real safe manufacturer that just so happens to deal with gun safes.  Most gun safe manufacturers have no background in the security business, and Sturdy is no different.  AMSEC has a long history of innovation in this industry.  Thesafeguy isn't a shuck and jive salesman.  He's an engineer responsible for some of these innovations.  He typically knows what he's talking about.  

A competitor? Really? Sturdy is a sheet metal gun "safe" maker with no UL listings or any other 3rd party testing. If all you got from the thread was "shuck and jive salesmanship" then you either can't read or haven't read it. He's an inventor and engineer with more experience designing and testing real safes and safe locks than all the gun safe makers combined. Heck, he just designed and successfully tested a TL30x6 safe with a very innovative active hardplate design. There is more information about fundamental safe design, testing and performance, than any other thread or article I've seen, anywhere.

You might want to read that thread again...... shuck and jive salesmanship from a "competitor"...LOL!

Well said Elessar!

Yes, I know you drank the Cool Aid. So why don't you give those of us you haven't a break ... please.

I find it very ironic that you of all people would accuse someone else of "drinking the koolaid" . The facts are the facts regardless of your opinions, speculations and feelings for Sturdy safe.

Both amsec bf and sturdy are great products, the amsec being a bit more oriented to fire protection and sturdy oriented to brute force protection. No reason it has to be one or the other.  The BF is made out of sheet metal too, much thinner even. It likely has more engineering in its lock protection and relocker system. If you want more protection from a professional safecracker, that might well be the better choice. In truth, if you have those concerns, you are looking at the wrong class of safe.

The absolute truth is that if a burglar is able to get into one of these brands in a given scenario, the other brand won't stop him either.  Sturdy may have a small advantage against certain attacks while the Amsec has an advantage in a fire or safecracker attack. no need for the drama.

Don't forget that the BF does offer an optional 4G inner liner in place of the standard 16G inner liner.
That 4G is behind (and bound to) the 11G/12G outer shell and a couple inches of poured fill.
The combination should prove very effective against non-professional brute force attacks.

Good point. Forgot about that as it is a fairly new thing. Great option and definitely makes the bf hard to beat in the rsa market.

Kool-Aid not Cool Aid ... my mistake; it's been so long since I had any I forgot how it was spelled but good thing you knew enough to catch it.

Facts? The fact here is that neither the AMSEC BF nor the Sturdy are TL rated safes so how does that have anything to do with this discussion? Sturdy makes gun-safes with extremely tight tolerances and very strong doors, the Amsec BF is a similar RSC class product albeit with probably not as strong a door from a bolt support/ pry resistance perspective. As for fire protection, ceramic fiber is an incredibly effective insulator and there is NO concrete insulation that even comes close to its ability to resist heat transfer which is a FACT.

:)

Like horses and water, some people, you can give them all the information in the world, but you can't understand it for them.

I have a Sturdy with fire liner. I am satisfied with the security aspects and mainly wanted something too heavy to be carried out by 1-2 guys and more secure from break in than a Stack On or other cabinet. It meets those requirements.

My assumption is that where I live in suburbs 5 minutes from firehouse and with fire hydrant quite close, I would not have a fire lasting more than 20 minutes.

But I can be wrong.

I thoroughly understand the physics of heat adsorption provided by gypsum/hydrated compounds that absorb heat to convert water to steam and its superiority to any passive liner that transfers heat in a linear (instead of threshold) fashion.

All that said, if you have the fire, and your gypsum based fire liner is cooked, what happens to the ferrous contents of the safe with superheated steam in a closed container? If the superheated steam is allowed to be vented, after the fire, doesn't the save have to be replaced? You can't cook the water out of the gypsum or cement more than once. How do you regenerate it, thereafter?

Serious question, not trolling. I am not trying to justify the purchase of a Sturdy after the fact. I am not sure I would have been willing to go to a higher price point that the gypsum lined safes live at.

For the record, in my Sturdy safe with passive fire liner I have two Sentry document boxes (one a grab and go) and the other a "file cabinet" for documents. These are (I believe) lined internally with gypsum or the like. Those I can toss for $50 after a fire, if they get heated to the point they liberate steam. I am willing to give up my not so valuable guns to that steam if it comes to that in order to save my critical life documents and some cash.

Why couldn't you clad a safe or RSC with drywall externally, and get the heat absorption properties of an internal liner?

You could but it would look terrible.

I always thought you needed steel around the gypsum board to hold it together while it started decomposing.  And if you're going to go to all that trouble, it's probably easier and much more secure to just weld up a sheet steel outer shell around the safe and then fill the cavity with cement.

Does anyone know if they offer a military discount?  I saw "contact us for discounts" on their site, and was curious.

Type X or better yet Type C drywall are designed to maintain their structure during a fire and don't cost much more than standard gypsum.

Give them a call, I'm sure they will give you a discount.

I believe Type C is what Fort Knox uses.

I haven't burned my house down (yet), but I've had my Sturdy for almost 8 years.

It's been moved once to a new house.
It still opens and closes perfectly (cycled daily).
It keeps the idiot house guests out.

I'd buy one again.