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Posted: 4/29/2017 4:42:44 PM EDT
Hey Guys! Glad to be here, first time poster!

A friend and I are wanting to get our FFL's and do online sales. Mostly in our state of Utah, however I am trying to find legalities of firearm raffles and I cant find anything on the ATF website. They just say that if you are doing a raffle for a non licensed business how to transfer the firearms. At the bottom it has a disclaimer as follows, "Please note, if the organization’s practice of raffling firearms rises to the level of being engaged in the business of dealing in firearms, the organization must get its own Federal firearms license." So the last part talks about the "level of raffling becoming engaged in the business...the organization must get its own FFL". Does this mean that it is legal to constantly raffle firearms as a business?

Thanks for the help!
Link Posted: 4/29/2017 6:25:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Does this mean that it is legal to constantly raffle firearms as a business?
View Quote


Sure, why wouldn't it be?

You can also constantly sell/buy/auction firearms, or never sell a single firearm.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:39:47 AM EDT
[#2]
As far as ATF is concerned, a FFL can raffle off as many (or as few) firearms as they want, as long as the actual transfer follows the normal rules (4473, NICS check or exemption, etc.).  States may have their own rules on raffles in general, or (less likely, I'd think) raffles of firearms in particular.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:42:26 AM EDT
[#3]
ATF never gets involved in the financial aspects of a firearms transfer. They just want the paperwork correct and the rules followed.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 6:38:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Ok so I'm safe on the ATF side but the legality of "Games of Chance" is where I think I might run into some problems, gambling laws etc but that will most likely be state level affairs. Thanks for the help guys!
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:05:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ok so I'm safe on the ATF side but the legality of "Games of Chance" is where I think I might run into some problems, gambling laws etc but that will most likely be state level affairs. Thanks for the help guys!
View Quote
For-profit businesses are prohibited from benefiting from raffles in all 50 states.

What the ATF is getting at, is they don't want some 501c3 volunteer fire company raffling off thousands of guns a year as their primary method of raising money without holding an FFL.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 12:22:34 AM EDT
[#6]
All great input and info guys. Thanks a ton. What if I sold a box of ammo and each box of ammo got a seat into a drawing?
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 9:41:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All great input and info guys. Thanks a ton. What if I sold a box of ammo and each box of ammo got a seat into a drawing?
View Quote

Ask an attorney in your state, this is outside the realm of gun laws.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 3:03:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Raffles are usually a means for non profit entities to raise funds.
Does not matter the prizes.  Trips, guns, TV's, etc you get the idea.

In some states raffles require a permit with specifics laid out.  I.E. first prize, second prize, etc.  The sponsoring organization and the people that will benefit from the proceeds above the costs. etc..

Your best advise has been rendered.  Talk to a local attorney.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 6:47:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Utah laws on Gambling
(7) "Lottery" means any scheme for the disposal or distribution of property by chance among persons who have paid or promised to pay any valuable consideration for the chance of obtaining property, or portion of it, or for any share or any interest in property, upon any agreement, understanding, or expectation that it is to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance, whether called a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise, or by whatever name it is known.
View Quote


I don't suppose you and your buddy have a business plan?




Quoted:
....What if I sold a box of ammo and each box of ammo got a seat into a drawing?
View Quote
It took me thirty seconds to Google "Utah laws on Gambling". If you can't figure out how to do that being an FFL may be a money losing proposition.
Stop with the raffles, drawings and silly nonsense and put together a real business plan.
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