Hello guys.

So I got a friend who's in PRK(Cali)

I'm in Arizona and I'm an FFL.

My friend wants to consign me about 60 firearms because of the whole law changes BS in Cali pertaining to AR 15s etc.

Now I know ALL transfers has to be done at my premises address.

Does this include acquiring firearms by consignment when the person wanting to give me the guns is in a different state?

Before I contact my IOI I wanted to ask here. Considering lots of IOIs tend to do magic and make up rules and regs.

So my simple question is.....

Would I be able to go to him in Cali and record all the firearms in my bound book and drive them back ?
Or because of the whole transfers at business or gun shows I couldn't

An FFL may acquire firearms anywhere within the united states. Only dispositions have to be done at your premises address.

Your friend can ship them to you, or you could pick them up in person while visiting him in Cali.

Not that I don't believe you.

But is this in writing anywhere?

My concern is when coming back from Cali and going into Arizona if I happen to get stopped. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna either

A. Get shot
B. Get shot
C. Put in cuffs after being shot
D. All the above.

With all the hoopla in the media (and I got NOTHING against LEO) having 60 some guns in my trunk if I get stopped do I show my FFL copy? Bound book?
Cuz there's no way the cops gonna say ok have a nice day. He definitely would want to thoroughly check each and every firearm if they are stolen (they won't be )

And shipping that many isn't feasible considering it would eat a shit ton of profit.

It's in your regulations books you got when you became an FFL (you did read those, didn't you?). They're provided digitally now, so it shouldn't take you too long to search for and find it in there.

Yea I did read it and yes I know it's digital. I was trying to get an answer quickly becuz I tried searching for it online but no dice.

Thanks for the heads up.

Now that we got the acquisition part out of the way. Let's say after 6mo or watever the guns need to go back to the person they came from. Obviously I know 4473 before being transferred back.

But what about actual delivery? I know we are not allowed to sell handguns to out of state residents and long guns only to certain state residents when they come into my state.

But since these were originally his does that apply if and when he comes to my shop to pick them up? Will I legally be NOT allowed to transfer the handguns etc since he would be having California residency and ID?

I couldn't find this in the regs and rules.

Effectively no way to return them if they don't sell on consignment. Consignment is a transfer, and would require a 4473, they'd have to go through another FFL back in Cali, unless he moved to Arizona and wanted to get them back from you that way.

Some of the long guns you might be able to transfer back to him on 4473, if CA laws and AZ laws both allow transfers of long guns to CA residents by an FFL.

Hang on. Back up a bit...
While you may not be in violation of Federal Law acquiring a firearm from any State you may violate Cali law by taking physical possession in state. Just because you have an FFL does not automatically mean you can physically take possession from the States point of view. It's fuckin Cali.
I would double check with state law and make sure there is a exemption for out of state FFL's. I would bet there is not.
In this case I do not believe Federal Law supersedes State Law. There is no "preemption to State Firearms laws" just because you have an FFL.
if Cali says you need xyz regestered to be in possession then the FFL holder picking them up is in violation because he is not a State of Commiefornia authorized Firearms dealer and has no way to process the paperwork the state may require.?
I get more info on Cali State Firearms Laws before jumping in with both feet.

You're over thinking this. It's just like any other acquisition and disposition. Once the consignor turns the guns over to you they are no longer his guns in the eyes of the ATF. If he wants any of them back, you treat it the same as any other sale. If your buyer (even your friend) lives in another state, federal law allows you to transfer LONG GUNS to him at your premises, though your state law may complicate things. Hand guns are a no-go unless shipped to an FFL in the buyer's home state. Also, you have to follow the rules of the buyer's home state on any sale. If his home state requires a waiting period, you have to follow the same protocol.

That's what I was wanting to know. If the whole thing becomes a purchasing a gun like any other type transaction.

So if not sold it becomes property of my FFL.

Yea he's not looking for return eventually but just in case you never know when it comes to friends and helping/doing a favor for them lol

Looks like I better have a thorough talk on this with him.

Also I'm going to have to check on the ability of an FFL picking up the firearms in state. I would think it wouldn't be a problem as long as I'm NOT selling them in state. Just acquiring them. The only exception I guess would be if anything is hicap or not Cali approved. And of course not compliant with stupid laws starting in 2017 there.

The discussion so far has dealt with the laws governing how an FFL acquires and disposes guns. We have not talked about your legal and moral obligations as a business person. Those are separate from the gun rules. No, they don't become your guns from a business perspective. Your consignor is entitled for compensation for his guns. Typically, in a consignment situation, the consignor is willing to wait as long as it takes for the guns to sell and to get paid. If at some point he changes his mind and wants the guns back they are still his guns. He just can't take possession of them until he jumps through the ATF hoops.

ATF laws are one thing.
Normal business practices and obligations are something else.

Remember, the ATF doesn't care about the money. They care about the guns and the records.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-does-licensee-handle-sale-consignment-firearm




https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensee-sell-firearm-nonlicensee-who-resident-another-state

I'm not gonna screw my friend. But I know what you mean. I didn't mean it like I was going to keep it free and clear.

Have him (or his FFL in Cali) send them to you in AZ then consign them.  Hell, he could even bring them from Cali to you in AZ.

If it was that easy that's what I would do. But it's like 60-70 guns. Rifles, pistols, old and new. Antiques etc. ALOT of money and ALOT of money to ship and insure all that. Especially ship

That's why I need to pick them up. There's enuff inventory (I said 60-70 relatively) there's more than that. More than enuff for a new FFL to stock his displays.

An FFL can acquire a firearm from anywhere. The law only states that you have record the name and address of the source of the firearm (along with the details of the gun, of course). The seller (or consignor) of the gun can bring them to you, you can go to them, you can receive them in the mail/UPS/etc, you can meet in a bar or at a highway rest stop. They can be delivered by horse-drawn Amish buggy or by an old lady pushing a baby stroller. It doesn't matter. The law simply says you have to record WHO you got them from, not where.

As my ATF inspector says, "There is no technically. There is only the law." The law is silent on where a FFL has to take possession of firearms.

Think about the entries in your A&D book: Regardless of whether the gun walked into your store or arrived by a FedEx truck, the acquisition entry is exactly the same.

Thanks for the info.


I'm good on the FFL portion of it. No worries there.  My worry is at the state level because I'm going into Cali to pick them up.

I pick them up and drive back and nothing happens meaning never stopped in Cali by Leo etc then no problem.

But IF I do get stopped that's what I'm worried about. I know that if I get pulled over and because of all the media attention to guns. It's not gonna be a smooth thing here's ur ticket have a nice day type deal.

I guess I'm just being paranoid of worse case scenario.

Here's an example. When I lived in Cali me and 3 other friends were coming back from Mexico. My friend is Mexican in his 40s sports a simple shaved head. His wife was in front passenger and I was in back. Other friend was white female mid 20s.  So we had to pass thru one of these agriculture inspection crossings. When the cbp saw my friends and asked where we were coming from they hit us with the secondary search.

So upon going to secondary my friend had 3car batteries in his trunk. I don't remember why I think it was cuz either he was recycling or dropping them somewhere.
Anyways because of those batteries we got searched up the wazoo. Pat down and k9 al everything. His car was searched and they even went under the hood to check HIS car battery. Why all this?

Because the batteries is I guess a method for drug smuggling. They were so sure we were doing bad stuff. Freaking dumb as shit.

So I just wanna be sure I'm covered in case some hopped up Leo goes nuts to bust me for "arms trafficking" or some shit.

Please don't say then "you should ship them blah blah blah "

Have your friend bring his guns to you. He wants to sell them. Why should you have to pick them up?

Lol I would. But let's just call it customer service for a very good friend lmao.  I think they call it a favor haha. It's ok I think I got it all figured out. I'm just gonna go pick it up. Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Be sure to carry a copy of your license.

Oh I'll be carrying all the business licenses. City, state, all that crap.

Don't speed, don't stop, ensure all lights and signals on your car are working, etc...

You don't think pallets of Rock Island pistols arrive at a Cali port, get loaded on a truck and are driven to Parumph NV?

Good point. But in the eyes of an overzealous LEO a person like myself in a minivan would make them go apeshit compared to a large truck where the drivers job is to transport shit. Cause all he has to say is I'm a truck driver delivering goods.

Oh well I'm sure I'll be alright. But incase something does happen I'll let them know I got the "online solution" exemption along with a variance from the FFL transfers forum on a popular firearm forum lol.

I got nothing against LEO, they risk their lives everyday and do the community good. But there's that one who if and will become a PIA

Hint:
If you are transporting guns, make it look professional..........put them in boxes, taped shut. Don't use shitty dirty boxes either. Have a typewritten packing/inventory list as well.
If you have a pile o' guns laying in the floor of your minivan with a blanket over them it will look like you just burgled a gun store.

Way ahead of you on that. List not only for myself but also him too so we have a list of what was given to me. Not my bound book as the only record and only for myself at that.

No way was I planning to put them bare on floor or trunk. But I was already on this idea. I just need to utilize something that can hold up to the weight properly.

I might actually be bringing back a safe as well. Laid on its back and stack as much as I can in there and the rest in some strong cardboard long boxes and plastic crates for the pistols.

Thanks

I am located very close to CA and take consignments from California customers on a regular basis.  We are also set up with the CA DOJ/CFLC to ship to CA dealers for sales that we make to CA residents (mainly at gun shows).

While it would be very rare for me to go to CA to pick up incoming consignments, there are transportation rules that you need to be aware of:

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel



Personally, I would have them shipped even if that meant me heading to CA, conducting a live inventory and getting them ready for shipping myself (probably boxed up on a  pallet and shrink wrapped to the pallet ready for pick up with copies of all paperwork in a sealed envelope taped to the outside of the shrink wrap).  This will probably be not much more in cost versus a truck rental and fuel costs, etc.

Since you seem dead set against that option, I would think about the following things:

-  Are all the guns currently CA compliant in there existing configuration?

-  Are they all registered as required by CA and local law?

-  Are any of them "Registered Assault Weapons"?

-  If registered, does the current owner have written back up of this and will you have copies of these documents with you?

-  Will any "High Capacity" magazines be included with these firearms (it is illegal for you friend to give/lend/sell you these even as a dealer while you are in CA so it would be hard to explain them in your possession).  Be very careful on this one.

-  What documentation will you have with you regarding the firearms acquisition/transportation?  FFL copy, signed consignment agreement (I wouldn't normally suggest getting this notarized but it might be one more way of legitimizing the documents), truck rental agreement showing one way reservation with drop-off location in AZ, etc.

-  How will they be boxed/loaded/locked?  Suggestion for palletizing the shipment as stated above might still be a good idea here.  Obviously a good lock on the back of the box truck.  I would not use a van that had the driver's area accessible to the guns since that may not be considered a "locked container" as required.  I recommend using Penske or Enterprise truck rental since they have competitive prices and may be seen as more legit for a commercial venture than a U-Haul (they also offer rental box trucks with lift gates which will be a huge help if you are actually getting that safe).

I hope some of these thoughts are helpful.  The biggest concern that I would have personally would be the magazine question more than the guns.  I have heard way too many anecdotal accounts of people getting pulled over in CA and having no problem with their properly locked containers and transported firearms but getting busted for the high capacity magazine.  And yes, they do confiscate the guns as evidence of the mag violation and they don't like to give them back.