for more serious uses. Home defense, defense on your land/property. Or maybe for hunting. Or maybe you use them in a more formal capacity for security, LE or military use? Whether it's an AUG/F(S)2000, Kel Tec of one flavor or another, Tavor, etc.

I'm an AR lover. Right now a Colt AR is my HD rifle. Has been for a while now. I flirted with the idea of going to one of my FS2000's. But decided against it. But I'm in the process of having one of my AUG's be my go to soon for around the house and the property.

My KT KSG is for up in the mountains (bears) and maybe some hunting. IF it proves durable and reliable.

What say my bullpup brothers?

All the above. Mostly fun/collecting, but no problem using any of them for serious use.

-The Tavor B16 and X95 aren't the first ones I'd grab for anything serious, but no one can deny that they have proven themselves for serious use. Frankly, I don't have enough trigger time on my X95 but I could see it running up my "serious rifle list" rankings.
-I am an STG556 owner so I'd like to think I can speak to the AUG (btw mine has run perfect since I got it). And frankly it isn't much different of my opinion of the Tavor. No one denies it is battle proven, but not the first I'd grab.
-Even with the long barrel the PS90 is light, handy, and stupid easy to shoot. The effectiveness of the 5.7 is a hot issue, I tend to sit on the side of the fence that says it is weak but for a PDW it is awesome rifle. I need to chop the barrel though (and move to a state that'll allow that).
- I actually love my FS2000. Yea it is wrong in every way, but it somehow works out. It won't take plastic mags, no BHO and the trigger is super heavy, yea that sucks, but life isn't perfect. I am more hung up over how sling unfriendly it is. That being said it is fun to shoot, reliable, and basically dust proof. I'd actually have no problems grabbing it if the world ended.

I'd love to run these guns through some classes just to see how well I can adapt and how reliable these guns would be. I'd love to get my hands on the RDB, RFB, and an MDR. If this lottery thing ever pans out maybe a FAMAS.

But if the SHTF, my AR15 and SCAR17 are getting the most love.

I'd say most of my bull pups (SBR PS90, RFB) are for fun/collecting. I've only shot the RFB a few times, but its just a neat gun.

I guess the question I have is, why wouldn't your Bullpup be your HD rifle? You've got a full length barrel firing rifle cartridges in a weapon the length of a MP5 (which is 27" with the stock extended). And the balance makes it easy to keep shouldered with one hand for opening doors, holding a phone, getting family and pets clear with the off hand.

We can certainly debate whether Bullpups vs Conventional rifles are better for War or competitive shooting, but for the Home Defense role they are obviously superior to either a 10" longer conventional rifle or extremely loud SBR.

I own 2 tavors (IDF, x95), 2 ars (custom build free float mod weight 18", m16a1 clone) and 1 ptr91 (used to be 2 of those too then cheap surplus 7.62 went extinct). I like them all and as a former 11b I have a lot of experience with ar ergos. Still I like my tavors the best for HD (that or my carry pistol since it's always around, loaded, chambered, and easily accessible) I've even dicked about a bit riding in a car with one of the tavors slung up before and it's pretty comfortable the take away being it works well in tight spaces without needing to consciously think up tactics to compensate for a longer weapon. I used to own a MSAR stg and I've fired multiple legit augs as well (the full auto 9mm is fun but fuck me the 2nd stage / full auto is heavy on the one I've shot) I like them but if it was one of them or my m16a1 clone I'd pick the clone because I don't like the crossbolt safety and I prefer traditional fore ends to the vfg either extended or folded up to provide a seudo hand guard. But that's just personal preference.

If you own one and like it work with it enough to get comfortable so you wouldn't feel iffy about using it. Or just use whatever else you are comfortable with. They are serviceable rifles but like golf clubs there is no single club to fit all situations and then for even a specific type personal preference provides for a lot of options to choose from and potential argue with others over said choice.

Along with a folder ak bullpups make a much beta car gun than a 16" ar15

I carried an A1 AUG thru most of the 1980's in law enforcement with many thousands of rounds down range. So many that the only time it was needed, it was second nature and it sent the one round required the same accurate way all of the practice and training rounds went. I carried an issued AUG in the 1990's because it was what I knew and had felt at home with though it never saw any more live fire use than a few thousand training and practice rounds.

After a number of years of retirement in the 0's, I returned to my career and after trying a number of different carbines, mostly of the M4 class, I returned to what I knew and trusted. Maybe it was bad luck but my current NATO stocked M1 just isn't as accurate as my previous A1's. I am trying to correct that with other examples and am buying an A3 simply for the greater sight radius.

I think they look odd but for me, their balance and maneuverability in tight spaces make the looks irrelevant. It's also what I know and trust. You could likely replace my experiences and use with many other rifles and I may feel the same about them except for the balance and maneuverabilty. If I had been military instead of civilian LEO, I may well feel at home with an M4 class.

Everyone has their own reasons for anything they like or trust and those reasons may not apply to any other person. Valid to anyone else or not, the bullpup AUG is what I choose for my needs.

They are toys until proven reliable. How one proves reliability varies from person to person. I require 1000rds before any mechanical failures. My MSAR and my RDB passed. Both with no cleaning during proving.

I am more of an M16A1 guy in both rifle and carbine format.....but the AUG has finally won me over in a lot of ways.  I don't "need" a rifle any more per se....but if the "need" arose, the AUG gives me some interesting flexibility that is sort of hard to define.  It's slick, fast, reliable and easy to shoot from the hoof.  It's also somewhat awkward on the reload....but gains ground in portability per inch of length, ease of maintenance and comparable reliability to the M16.  I love having a full 20 inch gun that is half an inch shorter than my CAR-15 with the stock collapsed.  If I put the 16 inch barrel on it....it gets even sweeter.

For serious fighting....I'd still prefer the CAR or A1 rifle if I were to "know" what I am getting into.  But to having something on hand that can put the boot down if an unknown situation turns ugly....I wouldn't hesitate to have my AUG.

It's just another tool in the box.  But it's a darn good tool to have handy.

The original question from the OP was rather general if you consider "all" bullpups.  Two in particular that are current production rifles in the AUG and Tavor/X95 acutally have military background, so I put them at least in the category of being "proven".  I have the Tavor and AUG, but I also have a KSG shotgun and RFB .308, both of which I'm not sure I'd grab as my solitary weapon while running out the door for the last time in a some crazy SHTF kind of imaginary scenario.  I've actually used the Tavor in a couple of SWAT schools, and I have full confidence in it.  I'd have similar confidence in my AUG...solid weapon.  I'd also have no heartburn to have grab one of my seven AR15's in the same scenario.  

So, to generally answer the OP's question about my motivation in having four bullpup rifles/shotgun...I don't obtain any gun to collect or use as some kind of unique trophy.  For me Bullpups are positioned in the category of having a size/dimensional advantage that most other rifles cannot achieve.  While hardly the end of the world disadvantage to have to use/rely upon a good AR, the bullpup always has that compact, easy handling quality with the same barrel length.  In the arena of precision shooting, however, I'll stick with my 18", 20", or 24" AR15.  The AR15 still reigns supreme in flexibility and application across the board except when it comes to length.  A quality bullpup will/should always take that category.  The old joke, "size does matter" really does apply in reverse in some firearms categories and applications.

I also hunt.  I use a precision 6mm bolt rifle in an aftermarket chassis, an 18" AR15, and a 20" AR15 primarily.  I have not and don't really intend to use one of my bullpups, but I might just for the experience.  That said I shot a coyote about 50 yards from my backdoor a couple of months ago with my AUG because it was the grab-the-gun-by-the-door selection at the moment.  I'll never say that a bullpup can't be used for hunting, but then, they may not be the absolute best choice in some situations.

On my earlier comment about my RFB .308 not being my grab-and-go rifle, I have to say mine has been fully reliable with the ammo, magazines, and gas settings I've settled on.  It's an amazing rifle to shoot, and it's a .308 bullpup.  Again...it's a .308 bullpup.

For me, it was both 1 and 2.

I'm looking at getting an M1 later this year and this is what i'm worried about.  I have an A1 (Steyr made CHF barrel) that is amazingly accurate but I'm worried that the new ones with the FN barrels might not be as good

Mind you, this is a sample size of one....but my 20 inch is between a 2 MOA/3 MOA gun at 100....easy...and I'm running a red dot!!!

It is NOT easy to shoot that good but it can be done.  I kinda want to put a real optic on it just to see what I can do with it.

My rommie's 16 is pretty darn accurate, too.

I have no problems relying on either the AUG or Tavor for serious use. I've shot both at a local rifle match and both have been utterly reliable, except for user induced stoppages that can't be blamed in the rifles.

Bullpups offer size advantages that make them great in confined spaces.

AJ

This is the reason my Tavor is my go-to/SHTF rifle.  I'm an apartment dweller in an urban setting, but urban settings go from 7 ft to 300m with the turn of a corner, and my Tavor is perfect for it all.  The only way it would be better would be if HPA passes and I get a can on the end.



Soon to be with a different muzzle device and a D60--because awkward reloading is easily offset by not having to reload 

I'm sure you know this. But you can get a can now. Don't get me wrong, I've been waiting on 3 cans for months (with more months to go). But I'd love to see the HPA pass. And I'm not being defeatist, but realistic. If it does pass, it's not gonna be anytime soon.

Why not just get a can now? HPA ain't passing.

And that D60 will make shouldering awkward.

I work in a field where a step up on the corporate ladder might take me overseas for a while, and I need to be able to be relatively mobile in order to follow the money.  Theoretically there is the trust game, but that, coupled with the stupidly long wait times right now?  Nah, the costs and logistics difficulty aren't worth it for the caliber and type of can I would want--not for where I am in my career right now.

And a D60 makes it a little awkward, but it's a comforting kind of awkward 

I don't buy any guns for collecting purposes, but some are range toys. That said, my tavor is my go to shtf gun.

There is always the 40 round magazine for the Tavor and the AUG has a factory 42 round magazine.

It's nice to have a SBR length rifle with a barrel longer then a stiff weenie and owning it without messing with all the stupid paperwork and hassles.

Due to mags not dropping free and reloads being slow and awkward, nothing more then badass rifles for fun and collecting.

I have most bullpups and they are all the same.

M4 or SCAR for anything serious.

Lancer, Magpul, GI all drop free from my Tavor, and reloads are just as fast as on an AR.

My X95 is now my go-to.

Add the Saker on it and it's still as compact as a non-sbr AR15 with all the velocity.

I'm waiting on a Saker to get out of jail. Plus a couple other cans. Thats when I'll probably make the final decision on whether to go with my 9mm AUG or a 556 one. Or both.

For me, Tavor reloads are faster then with an AR or SCAR. Mostly because the magazine release on the Tavor is so huge and an easy to hit target I don't have to waste any time finding it while keeping my eyes on the target.

If reloading from empty the Tavor's huge bolt release is very simple to hit with your thumb as your hand slides up the back of the mag.

Because the mag and bolt release are so big it's easy to find them by feel, even if you're wearing gloves or your hands are cold and numb.

AJ

All the rifle training I have had is with an AR, and the department I used to work for did lots of good training.  I am confident with an AR, just not overly comfortable with it.  No matter where I positioned the stock on the rifles, it never felt "right", and I also did not like the factory grip they had on the rifles.  Now I know those issues can be fixed with aftermarket parts, and I have on my personal AR.

When I bought my STG-556 it was initially simply because I always wanted an AUG.  I found, however, that the more I shot it I the more I liked it. To the point that I like it more than my AR.  The AUG (and my PS90) just feel like they fit right in my shoulder,  I like the way they balance and having a full sized barrel in a compact package. Removing the barrel on my STG or my AUG allows for covert carry, and the STG stays with me in my truck in a very discrete County Comm Sat bag.

I admit I can't change mags as fast with my AUG or PS90, but with 42 and 50 rounds in each that does not bother me that much.  Unless it is a full fledged TEOTWAWKI situation I doubt I would ever have to do a mag change in the event I used the rifle for self defense.

So for me if there is a bump in the night I'm grabbing the AUG or PS90.

Mine is for fun. I've trained on the AR platform for almost twenty years so it's second nature. My X95 is still gassy when suppressed so it won't be my home rifle till I solved that issue and get some more time with it.
I prefer the Surefire 60 over the Magpul D60. Fits better.

But to be honest, I carry my rifles with 20 round Pmags or Lancers. Be it my 5.56 SBR, 300blk SBR, or X95. If I need more than 20 rifle rounds, I need to stop missing.

When people started shooting other people based simply on skin color last year in Dallas, I went to the collection and had to decide what I was going to load and leave by the bed.  I chose the AUG.  Easily 1-hand manipulated while actuating lights/doors/etc.  30 round mag is well balanced.  And can also 1-hand retrieve and use within a vehicle better than an AR.  

I shoot my AUG a lot, it's a good rifle.

Are you using your M1 that you've been chronicling? Red dot on top the scope and all? Just curious.

My SBR'ed PS90 is for serious work.

Yea, I just use the 3X, it doesn't have a red-dot on it right now.  For household use, I don't anticipate much aiming opportunity anyway.

I see. Just curious. Causing I'm flirting with a red dot on top of my M1 3x scope. Using an Aimpoint T-2. Course I'm also screwing around with a laser too. for fun.

Using a red dot on top of the scope housing is different. Can it can get the job done. No real difference (except a tiny bit more height) using something like and ACOG and RMR on an AR. Of course some people like/use those kinds of setup. Some hate them.

I love the Steyr AUG and wouldn't hesitate to use it for self defense. It's more reliable than the AR-15. To me it's the Austrian Glock of rifles ;) I can shoot it one handed with ease. It's compact for CQB work but still has the long barrel for longer ranges. One of my favorite 5.56mm rifles for sure! 

There's only two things I don't like about bullpups.

They're expensive, and slower to reload IMO. So since you probably wont need 30 rounds in a home defense situation, the reloading problem is probably a moot point. They're just expensive. I'd have a Styer AUG next to my AR's if they weren't 2,000 dollars.

In my experience the fixed optic version of the AUG doesn't really support the red dot concept very well.  You can make it work, but it's just a little combersom.  Either the red dot is too high, if mounted on top, or your risk eating brass if you mount it on the optic's side rail.  The height and ergo's are actually quite excellent if you mount it on the optic's side rail, but when you rotate the gun to see through it, that ejection port is right in front of your mouth.

I did a 3-gun night shoot last year, for fun and education rather than for seriousness.  One thing that became abundantly clear real fast was the "lasers are cheesy toys that don't work" bias I had learned decades ago was very very wrong.  Lasers in low light are extremely effective.   Based on my experience with the red dot, and how it is somewhat cumbersome on the AUG, I am beginning to suspect that a decent wattage Green laser on the AUG is probably the way to go.  The AUG is a gun very conducive to point shooting already.  Just like the AUG bullpup concept is advantagious for CQB due to it's shortness and one-handed handling capabilities, the laser will likely expand on those advantages, as one doesn't even need to raise the gun to the shoulder and align down a sighting system, with a laser.  For in home 5-50' engagements, that may well be more pragmatic.  (only big downside to the AUG is that bastard is LOUD).  

So yea, putting a laser on it for indoor and close quarters probably makes a lot better sense than a red dot on an AUG.  Now that I think about it - I think that's probably what I'm going to do.  That way I can mount it low, on that little side rail that closer to bore axis.

I've got a Crimson Trace CMR-206 mounted to the little AUG siderail over the trigger. Works very well - I keep the pad of my trigger finger resting on the activation lever of the laser, with the middle of the finger resting over the safety. All I need to do is tap lightly with the pad, then have my finger enter the trigger guard, and the laser is on and the safety is off. Very fast and intuitive.

You can certainly build an AR for less than the $1500 a Tavor would cost you...but a ton of people spend over $1k on their AR, so it's not like it's completely out of bounds. I know what you mean though, sometimes I recoil a bit when I see the price of a gun...like with H&Ks new MP5 pistols. yikes.

Fity rounds on tap with the P90 and another fifty in reserve can be loaded VERY QUICKLY.

If the focus is on economy, a Bullpup isn't the answer you seek.  If it's based on capabilities and performance, the Bullpup has some real advantages.   There are also lower cost Bullpup options like the KelTek.  

If there's a philosophical frustration where you feel the AUG/TAVOR seem unfairly overpriced, the answer to that is: not as much as you think.  There's a premium for sure.  But comparing a single-manufacture' supplied item from a state military supply arsenal (more or less), to the commercial US AR market is a little unfair.  

The economy of scale and the economics of competitive sub-contractors that AR's benefit from is practically unique in the firearms world, and a recent phenomena.  A more fair comparison is to any other single-provider firearm of Government Issued quality mil-spec parts.  The PSA $500 AR isn't exactly a GI issue arm.  Good gun!  I'd trust my life to one, but it's from a different market.  Comparing an AUG to the price of a LaRue (Who make most of their own parts), or a Benelli semi-auto .223, or an FN AR15 even, is more realistic.  And in those examples, price points get a lot closer.  Consider than an AUG A3M1 with integrated optics goes for $2000 nominal (closer to $1500 w/out the glass; and sometimes less then that actual today in 2017), compare that to a LaRue, and the pricing is about the same.

Not saying you should spend $1500 for a Bullpup if that investment is a stretch to you.  Indeed, you should certainly not if that $1000 difference will be dearly missed.  But some can and did spend it, because we wanted it that bad anyway.  And then discovered that this is also a pretty darned great Home Defense gun, with advantages beyond the non-bullpup platform.

All that capacity is negated when it takes more than a handful of rds to incapacitate someone.

Fort hill shooting (only the 57 handgun), much more powerful ammo than the factory ammo used in the shooting indicates this isn't a round without purpose.

.17 hmr and .22lr both are ammo with a purpose, but I'd use neither for self-defense unless absolutely necessary.

The most telling characteristic about 5.7 is that the one agency who chose it with the primary purpose of ending human life found that the 5.7 did not fill it's intended purpose (even with it's "more powerful ammo"), thus dropping the p90 and going to the sr16 with 5.56.

No one is debating the 5.56 round is better. 5.7x28mm was never intended to best this.   The p9o shines as a concealable platform that has a huge capacity and walks through soft armor.  Per the coroner in one of the first uses by Houston swat, it is a round with damage similar to A 115 gr +p+ 9mm round.

Comparing this to a 5.56 round misses the point. The p90 when compared to mp5 is smaller, higher capacity, and easily penetrates soft armor.

The FBI is also giving up .40 to go to 9mm...it doesn't mean the 40 is without merit. The 5.7 has been used to good effect and shines in a platform like the p90 where volume of fire and vest penetration is important.  It is a good alternative to the mp5 or uzi; it wasn't designed to best the 5.56.  For as anemic and worthless as this round is, it sure has taken YEARS for the secret service to replace it.

Do you really think this would have been left in service for a decade or two if it was worthless and far bested by an existing sub gun caliber in 9mm?

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to grab my AUG in a life or death situation, it sits bedside normally. It's also a great traveling/truck gun; if a little pricey. The real downside to an AUG isn't slow reloads, it's mounting a light or suppressor. Both are doable but not ideal.

There's no way I'm taking brass to the face on purpose. I thought about sticking my T-2 on the side rail of either the scope housing or the receiver. But brassface would happen either way.

I'll have to see how everything goes with the T-2 on top. I don't dislike it and it's not completely horrible. I guess time will tell.





Yeah, I'm kinda liking the laser (it's a Streamlight TLR2HLG) on the gun. I've been fooling around with the laser on the AUG and I can see some advantages and disadvantages (also advantages/disadvantages with green vs red lasers). But it could be another tool in the tool box. If I don't want the laser on. I can switch it off easily and still use the light. I've always liked the idea of lasers, but only fooled around one, a green Viridian 5 or 6 years ago. Well see how it goes.



I've got the laser/light mounted on the side of the scope housing right now with a remote switch going through the side rail on the receiver and onto the vertical grip. I'll try it both ways and see how I like one or the other.

This is one reason the tavor is my shtf gun because it is ideal for light mounting. With an aftermarket handguard it's better than an AR for lights. No wires sticking out, no bbl shadow, nothing for obstructions to catch on etc. It's pretty much perfect...like the platform was designed with it in mind.

I test fired that Streamlight at the 3-gun shoot, at their side-booth.  Green laser makes a pretty big difference over Red (especially in higher light settings) - though I'm having  a hard time with the fact that it costs 2X as much.  It's an amazing light/laser combo, and made my kit look like crap.   Yea - I'm the guy who showed up with a headlight for the pistol stages (Big BIG mistake), and a $20 Amazon flashlight clamped on for the rifle stages (barely worked, thank God stuff was pretty close).  That streamlight just lights up the entire bay - it was amazing.  And with the laser, you couldn't miss.  

But here's the rub - I want to mount-and-forget.  And that Streamlight, as compact as it is for what it is, is still a bit bigger than I'm going to want to just leave on the gun.  So I'm investigating micro-laser systems, that I can just leave on the gun.  The compromise with those of course being less power and I suppose battery life.  But that's what I'm looking at.  For now, I've got a cheap-ass $12 version on order, that's a red one.  Pretty sure the innards of this is one of those $3 grocery store red laser pointers for entertaining your cat at 2', but in a different housing to pop onto a gun.  I've used those for work-presentations, and they basically are only good for the first couple minutes - but it's something to play around with, before I drop the $150 for a proper green micro-laser.

The AUG is my undisputed go-to.
Never fails me, can use in  hallway or a vehicle easily.
Light placement works fine.

The TLR2HLG wasn't cheap. But I got a decent deal on it. Wish green lasers weren't so more expensive compared to red, but it's different tech and all that. I'm a fan of Streamlight for the money. The HL pushing out 800 lumens is a good value, especially considering it's package size. I've got a nice Surefire light. But it's long and big and pushing out 200 lumens less. A smaller Surefire WML would be in the 300 lumen range and still be expensive. I used to think that a light pushing 600 or 800+ lumens might be too much for indoors. But you use the light correctly, and it's not a big issue at all. Outdoor the TLR2HLG is fantastic. Lights up a lot of space.

I looked at some of the smaller laser options. Like Lasermax etc. Small packages. But I decided on the Streamlight light and then decided I wanted to try a laser again. And to me anyways, the piggybacked laser module at little size to the light itself. Plus I wanted to be able to use then both with one remote switch if need be.

The green laser is stunning at night and day, especially against the red. Buy once, cry once I guess. But sometimes spending less or cheaper stuff might be the way to go when testing things out. Nothing wrong with that. I know you did the same thing by buying a cheapie ebay red dot to try out on top of your M1. But I had the Aimpoint T2 micro already. So on it went. Heck, I'll borrow stuff from family or friends if I can.

I personally think the TLR2HLG light/laser combo has a good compromise with the footprint. Especially since I wanted to try out a laser and get a good light in the process. Bonus they came together and I can decide not to use the laser if I want. It just doesn't stick out and isn't as cumbersome to me, when comparing it to something like my Sure M600P. Great light, the Sure fire but it's long and the head is as thick or so as the entire Streamlight.

Right now, I'm looking at some ideas to rig up a shell deflector. Don't get me wrong, the Corvus Defense one looks good. But I don't feel like spending $100 on it. Not when I can rig up something to slap on the gun for a couple bucks.

I have a light on the side rail and can easily activate it with my trigger finger. There's a couple manufacturers that make adapters for the AUG thread pattern (I can't understand why with FN making the barrels they don't utilize 1/2x28 ). I don't care with it being a piston that it's louder than an AR, it's still a lot better than without a can.