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Posted: 1/18/2017 5:00:42 PM EDT
Not gonna count my chickens yet but its looking dam good. I noticed the mag release arm inside the stock was pushing on the barrel on the left side. So i broke it down and removed the barrel and used a dremmal to remove so material where its hitting. There is a bolt going threw in the same spot on the barrel that is part of the gas. I remove just a little from the barrel and a little from the mag release lever as well so i could see a good gap inbetween. So far its looking really good guys. Would love to see others comment about contact in the same area on yours.
Federal 55gr fmj black box ammo at 50 yards. Before and after on lead sled. 
Added pics Once the forend is off this is the area to look. It was touching on mine enough to take off paint on the barrel. 
I dont have a barrel wrench so a big flat head and crescent wrench work just fine 
It was easy to see where to grind because of the paint missing but this is the spot after i used the dremmel 
I used a lead sled on both test in the same spot and everything. Its what i use to work up handloads and helps remove any jerking or moveing 
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Posted: 1/18/2017 5:16:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Do a write up with pictures, I think there would be much interest in your fix if others can replicate what you did with similar accuracy increase.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 8:10:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do a write up with pictures, I think there would be much interest in your fix if others can replicate what you did with similar accuracy increase. Not much of a story teller but tried to make it clear what i saw and did. Thanks for the advice. Its raining here alot so when i can i will test more and make sure its a fix and not a fluke but seems like it helped. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 8:40:47 PM EDT
[#3]
I might have to take another look at the x95. I loved everything about mine except the 4moa accuracy
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Posted: 1/18/2017 8:58:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Great news. Hopefully it turns out to be the culprit.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:19:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Good job! So far it looks like you are panning out!!!
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Posted: 1/18/2017 9:58:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Man, please keep us updated as you can. I've wanted an X95 since they hit the streets but that accuracy issue makes it a no go for my needs. If this is a fix, I will definitely take the plunge.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 10:14:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, please keep us updated as you can. I've wanted an X95 since they hit the streets but that accuracy issue makes it a no go for my needs. If this is a fix, I will definitely take the plunge. If the weather clears im gonna do some more groups tommarrow. It was surpriseing to see how much flex was in that handgaurd piece. I could make that piece not touch by twisting the grip area so im really hoping other have the same clearence problem so everyone can get the same groups as above. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:35:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Man if others can replicate this it will be awesome
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:58:49 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm not seeing this on mine. I only have around 100 rounds through it yet, but it still looks new. I'll keep my eye on it.
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Posted: 1/19/2017 1:59:21 AM EDT
[#10]
I wonder if you solved the mystery of the X95 "Accuracy issues" ! Hopefully IWI in Harrisburg will see these photos and could figure out a factory solution.
Thanks for the report and photos! |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 10:55:24 AM EDT
[#11]
nice find! I will notch mine also and see if it helps...
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Posted: 1/19/2017 11:10:44 AM EDT
[#12]
If that's it, I see an X95 in my future. Oh please, oh please, oh please.....
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Posted: 1/19/2017 4:13:58 PM EDT
[#13]
So some interest results today. I did 5 shots and saw it a little big than yesterday so i just did a mag of slow steady fire and got about 2.5". But again this was not shooting as pefect as i could but just a steady rate aimed.
Then i put up another target slowed it down and tested if postion was still effecting it like before. I put the sling inbetween my fingers and with strong pressure to the left fire a 5 shot group( just saw it was 6), keeping in mind to keep the same pressure on each shot and keeping the rifle level. Pic below shows how i was holding it. 
Then did a group holding the forend with pressure strait down. Same as before, keeping it the same pressure and level. 
The results are clear. If i removed the contact to the barrel then something else is pulling the rounds at a angle. Another interesting thing is the poa vs poi between the 2. So im not sure that the removal of the contact on the barrel had anything to do with the smaller group more than the way I or anyone holds the rifle. 
Groups do seem to be ,overall, smaller tho after the grinding. Whats your guys thoughts? |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:06:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So some interest results today. I did 5 shots and saw it a little big than yesterday so i just did a mag of slow steady fire and got about 2.5". But again this was not shooting as pefect as i could but just a steady rate aimed. Then i put up another target slowed it down and tested if postion was still effecting it like before. I put the sling inbetween my fingers and with strong pressure to the left fire a 5 shot group( just saw it was 6), keeping in mind to keep the same pressure on each shot and keeping the rifle level. Pic below shows how i was holding it. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/20170119_135211_zpsbvr1uifa.jpg Then did a group holding the forend with pressure strait down. Same as before, keeping it the same pressure and level. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/20170119_135145_zpsgwrngdjz.jpg The results are clear. If i removed the contact to the barrel then something else is pulling the rounds at a angle. Another interesting thing is the poa vs poi between the 2. So im not sure that the removal of the contact on the barrel had anything to do with the smaller group more than the way I or anyone holds the rifle. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/20170119_135232_zps1wvl40ji.jpg Groups do seem to be ,overall, smaller tho after the grinding. Whats your guys thoughts? It looks to me like you are making seriously good progress compared to the normal performance of an X95. Two things: get better targets that allow you a clear and consistent focal point for your reticle. Repeat the hold testing again. I think you are on to something. You MAY need to do a little more clearancing if barrel whip is causing the barrel to touch that little flappy during the firing cycle. |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:52:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two questions: first, how you removed those plastic bushings between the barrel and the forend? Second: are you sticking to the same ammo through the test? It looks to me like you are making seriously good progress compared to the normal performance of an X95. Two things: get better targets that allow you a clear and consistent focal point for your reticle. Repeat the hold testing again. I think you are on to something. You MAY need to do a little more clearancing if barrel whip is causing the barrel to touch that little flappy during the firing cycle. Bushing removed and same ammo I did try my last 3 round of 53 gr hornady match ammo. 2.25" :0 It didnt like that. Used the pull down method also. 
Did 5 with the same 55gr fmj ammo ive been useing but only held the front angle grip of the pistol grip. About the same as pulling left 
5 more pulling down and its back to 3/4 " but higher. Not sure why p.o.i went up.? 
It is clear it like to be pulled down in the front rather than any other type of support. Im not sure what this means once you go standing or prone. Besides using a setup like this it would be hard to keep that kind of downward pressure while shooting. Id love to cut the gas and try all this without the bolt moveing. I kinda wonder if the bolt being so far back isnt kicking the barrel around before the bullet exist or at the same time. As always, would love to hear your guys thoughts |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:55:15 PM EDT
[#16]
It's very interesting that you seem to be having the same problem that other X95 guns exhibit. One good group...one bad....one good...two bad....two good...one bad....etc.
Very. Very strange. That being said, you HAVE made some ground. Keep up the great work. This is good info. |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:56:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Is it possible to remove the foregrip altogether and fire it like that to see how it groups?
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:58:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it possible to remove the foregrip altogether and fire it like that to see how it groups? I could but because it shows to like to be pulled down im notsure it would yeild anything good and it would be hard to steady it on my rig without it. I will try next time tho and just see |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 6:02:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's very interesting that you seem to be having the same problem that other X95 guns exhibit. One good group...one bad....one good...two bad....two good...one bad....etc. Very. Very strange. That being said, you HAVE made some ground. Keep up the great work. This is good info. Thanks man, it seems like pulling the forend down it pretty much stays consistent except for the point of impact shift on the last grouping. Its a weird gun for sure and just not sure how to apply this kind of pressure while standing |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 6:04:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Interesting results ...... There still seems to be something else going on with this rifle that the Tavor does not seem to exhibit
Keep up the investigating though you definitely are on the right track |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 6:20:58 PM EDT
[#21]
how about don't put any torquing pressure on the front end at all? if the forearm is resting on the sled, just keep it neutral without any additional pressure. this is normal for non-free floated barrels...tightening up on a sling, putting a twisting motion on the firearm or even attaching a bayonet on an AR will also shift the PoI because you've changed the barrel harmonics
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Posted: 1/19/2017 6:47:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how about don't put any torquing pressure on the front end at all? if the forearm is resting on the sled, just keep it neutral without any additional pressure. this is normal for non-free floated barrels...tightening up on a sling, putting a twisting motion on the firearm or even attaching a bayonet on an AR will also shift the PoI because you've changed the barrel harmonics Look for the pic that says free on it. That was not touching the forend at all and trigger hand on the pistol grip and other hand on the angled part of the grip, pulling straight back. Thats why i did that one like that, just to see how it reacted under free recoil |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 2:24:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Wonder if you could add a tuning screw somewhere in the front. Something like the EBR stocks have, then just adjust the screw for slight barrel harmonic changes to dial in accuracy.
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Posted: 1/22/2017 9:19:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Has anyone tried shutting down the gas system to see if the issue is from the piston harmonics?
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Posted: 2/1/2017 11:27:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Any updates?
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Posted: 2/2/2017 1:00:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any updates? Nothing new pertaining to this flyer issue, but did have a shoot at my place this past weekend and had a few people shoot it. They said and i noticed, people had a hard time holding it steady. As if it was off balance somehow. People that i know can shoot well with dam near any gun you give them had to really slow it down to hit 6"plates at 100. I could see most people doing a figure 8 type of movement with it while aiming. Could this just be the difference between bullpups vs the more common? Even the wife, who i thought would love how compact it is, said she just couldnt get comfortable behind it like her AR. A shooter did have a doubling once, we could not replicated again in almost 200 rounds fired after that. No jams, or any malfunctions. This flier issue doesnt seem to be as bad after i modified the barrel but as the pics above show, its still there ( or am i at the limit of the factory ammo?) I want to strap it down to the table with straps and remove the handgaurd but need to find away to hold it steady. Maybe after the superbowl i can try a few more things out. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 1:03:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone tried shutting down the gas system to see if the issue is from the piston harmonics? I've only seen 1 person do an adjustable gas system (youtube i believe). I too wish i could turn it off but its beyond my knowledge on how. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 1:08:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder if you could add a tuning screw somewhere in the front. Something like the EBR stocks have, then just adjust the screw for slight barrel harmonic changes to dial in accuracy. I had thought of something like that. Once i get it straped to the table and steady, i was gonna shim between the barrel and the front of the handgaurd where the barrel comes out of it. I will see what i can come up with it. Thanks for all the helpful idea's everyone. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 4:07:11 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't know if it matters on the X95 or not, but on my Tavor I get much better groups just resting the grip on a sandbag, tucking the butt in my shoulder nice and tight, and leaving the whole front of the gun clear. Don't hold it, don't touch it, and don't let anything else touch it. I believe that anything touching the fore-end changes POI and will result in flyers. It seems more sensitive than a non freefloated AR when you use a sling as a shooting aid. I also tend to get better accuracy when I'm shooting standing or anything else by gripping the front of the grip ( in front of the trigger , like a magazine hold on an AR or AK), with just the meat of my off hand touching the bottom of the hand guard itself. Basically no pressure on the hand guard.
That tightened my groups and cut down on flyers , because I'm not affecting barrel harmonics in any way. |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 1:07:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Apologies if it is general knowledge but is it only the US versions with these issues or does the true Israeli model suffer the same?
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