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Posted: 11/5/2016 1:31:44 AM EDT
[#1]
I don't know. I took the extra return spring out of mine, and it helped a lot. The trigger is now more than serviceable. It isn't an AR trigger by any means, but it is more than good enough once you get used to it. It lightened it up about 4lbs or so and seemed to help with the gritty feeling. It still resets fine, and I haven't had any issues. I did it after the first magazine I fired through mine. The trigger has gotten a bit better over time as well and is broke in now.
Still, if you want an AR type break and feel, Super Sabre and the trigger seem to be the only way to go. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 3:13:42 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm a recent SAR and X95 purchaser and have literally no real world experience yet. That said, I've been reading about them for months. As mentioned above, lots of people are reporting a substantial improvement by removing that SAR hammer pack spring. The SAR and X95 have different hammer packs and triggers. The x95 pack is acknowledged as being much better than the SAR and some users are putting them in their SARs as a low cost improvement. The trigger on the SAR is 2 pieces and spongy as a result. The X95 trigger is a single piece trigger and reportedly better. The Geissele Lightning Bow is also a 1 piece trigger, but it lacks a spring, so the pull is lighter than the X95 in addition to having adjustable pretravel. My impression is to start by removing the SAR hammer pack spring, upgrading to the X95 trigger and/or hammer pack as low cost options, and the Geissele Lightning Bow trigger and/or Super Sabra cost no object. Hope this helps.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 7:23:02 AM EDT
[#3]
I will let you know next week. I have a Tavor with Geissele trigger bow and spring removed from factory trigger pack and an X95 pack I got from a friend. With the Geissele trigger bow both are single stage trigger with no pre travel only grit. The X95 pack is noticeably lighter and cleaner than the Tavor pack with spring removed. So I sent my X95 trigger pack to Bill Springfield for a trigger job and should have it back Tuesday. I've had the super sabra in past tavors but prefer single stage triggers so I only had two choices. Either work over a factory pack or get a Timney.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 9:44:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will let you know next week. I have a Tavor with Geissele trigger bow and spring removed from factory trigger pack and an X95 pack I got from a friend. With the Geissele trigger bow both are single stage trigger with no pre travel only grit. The X95 pack is noticeably lighter and cleaner than the Tavor pack with spring removed. So I sent my X95 trigger pack to Bill Springfield for a trigger job and should have it back Tuesday. I've had the super sabra in past tavors but prefer single stage triggers so I only had two choices. Either work over a factory pack or get a Timney. Thanks, fellas. I've sent AR FCGs to Bill in the past, but not recently had any that needed it badly enough, and I didn't know he'd work on these. I was reluctant to monkey with the FCG pack myself, I figured I'd end up with some doubling and BATFE would assume the worst of my intentions, but removing the second spring looks easy enough. It's been a while since I tinkered with Holley 780's, so I don't consider myself the 'delicate fingers' kinda guy anymore. The Lightning Bow looks like it'd help in any event, so that ones going on my list near the top. I'm waiting for someone to have a sale on MEPROs already, so this is one more thing, I guess. Maybe the BlackFriday pixies will be good this year. This Tavor is my first venture back out of the AR forest I've been in for years, so it's a whole different pathway for me to be following right now. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 11:29:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Just use a very small punch or jewelers screwdriver to stick in the the loop on the end of the spring and lift off like you would a rear drum brake spring, or carb spring.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 3:02:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Using a Longbow trigger and the original pack with the return spring removed .is not bad and not to expensive.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Do not remove the "extra" return spring on the Tavor trigger pack. I am a Tavor Armorer and IWI states this emphatically in the Armorer's Class - you may not have trouble right away, but eventually it WILL become an issue. They have had tons of guns where they either had to send the customer a new spring or the gun came in for failure to fire issues and the first thing they did was look and the spring was gone.
It drives IWI nuts that some internet "genius" made the recommendation and now it is their #1 maintenance/repair issue they have to deal with. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 3:51:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do not remove the "extra" return spring on the Tavor trigger pack. I am a Tavor Armorer and IWI states this emphatically in the Armorer's Class - you may not have trouble right away, but eventually it WILL become an issue. They have had tons of guns where they either had to send the customer a new spring or the gun came in for failure to fire issues and the first thing they did was look and the spring was gone. It drives IWI nuts that some internet "genius" made the recommendation and now it is their #1 maintenance/repair issue they have to deal with. Sven Manticore Arms I've got 400 rounds down the pipe, no issues. If it does become an issue I have the spring in a plastic box in my reloading area, so it can be reinstalled. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 6:13:48 PM EDT
[#9]
The return coil spring that rotates the notched lever back and forth is way stronger than the tiny little coil spring that is removed. If your trigger is not resetting with the removal of the little spring something else is wrong with your trigger pack.
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Posted: 11/6/2016 9:34:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Is IWI anywhere near to putting the x95 trigger packs up for individual sale in their store?
I'm sure I'm not the only SAR owner who wants to retrofit his rifle with one. Won't pay $300 or $350 for it either, if they're reading this. Make it $100 and they'll sell a bunch. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 12:50:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is IWI anywhere near to putting the x95 trigger packs up for individual sale in their store? I'm sure I'm not the only SAR owner who wants to retrofit his rifle with one. Won't pay $300 or $350 for it either, if they're reading this. Make it $100 and they'll sell a bunch. I was told In a month or two by IWI. List price looks close to 200 |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 1:32:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was told In a month or two by IWI. List price looks close to 200 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is IWI anywhere near to putting the x95 trigger packs up for individual sale in their store? I'm sure I'm not the only SAR owner who wants to retrofit his rifle with one. Won't pay $300 or $350 for it either, if they're reading this. Make it $100 and they'll sell a bunch. I was told In a month or two by IWI. List price looks close to 200 Great, so its like double the cost of the original pack... |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 6:51:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great, so its like double the cost of the original pack... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is IWI anywhere near to putting the x95 trigger packs up for individual sale in their store? I'm sure I'm not the only SAR owner who wants to retrofit his rifle with one. Won't pay $300 or $350 for it either, if they're reading this. Make it $100 and they'll sell a bunch. I was told In a month or two by IWI. List price looks close to 200 Great, so its like double the cost of the original pack... FFS. Not good news. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 12:59:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FFS. Not good news. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is IWI anywhere near to putting the x95 trigger packs up for individual sale in their store? I'm sure I'm not the only SAR owner who wants to retrofit his rifle with one. Won't pay $300 or $350 for it either, if they're reading this. Make it $100 and they'll sell a bunch. FFS. Not good news. But lets be serious. It doesn't need to be so authentic that they sell me the stiff trigger and then charge me another $200 to sell me the civilized house-broken version.  |
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Posted: 11/8/2016 11:36:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Ok. Got my trigger back from Bill Springfield and it is great. Don't have a trigger gauge but I'd guess around 3-4lb crisp clean break. It combined with the Geissele trigger bow gives a great single action trigger. However it still has the factory amount of over travel and long reset. If you can afford it I'd go with the Timney over the trigger job.
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Posted: 11/9/2016 1:56:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok. Got my trigger back from Bill Springfield and it is great. Don't have a trigger gauge but I'd guess around 3-4lb crisp clean break. It combined with the Geissele trigger bow gives a great single action trigger. However it still has the factory amount of over travel and long reset. If you can afford it I'd go with the Timney over the trigger job. A bullpup has a lot more stuff in the mix than in an AR fcg. I just don't want to spend twice as much taking small steps to end up in the same place anyway. |
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Posted: 11/10/2016 8:53:29 AM EDT
[#17]
I discovered that the biggest reason for the Tavor's heavy factory trigger, is the disconnector design. When I measured, it took around 4 to 4.5 lbs just to overcome that disconnector in order to reset the trigger. That's before you include sear engagement friction and any other forces affecting trigger pull.
I stoned and then polished the $#!^ out of the back end of the sear trying to improve this to no avail. Unfortunately, the design of the back of the connector where the sear/disconnector engages it made it too difficult to reach with my primitive equipment. After my attempts to clean that up failed, I decided to add a Timney pack to my SAR. It works wonderfully, except with a batch of Lake City surplus stuff I have, with crimped primers. I have to go back to the factory trigger or 2-3 per magazine of those won't fire. I don't think the primers are "hard", just set in deeper due to the crimping. FWIW: That "extra" spring that everyone is removing, appears to have been added to compensate for springs that are part of the FA components that would normally assist with reset. |
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Posted: 11/10/2016 9:29:01 AM EDT
[#18]
If I understand this correctly, IMI in Israel designed the semi-auto trigger pack for the US market?
I am curious about exactly what they would consider an unacceptable pull weight on the trigger, because wow! Does the "new" X95 trigger pack work in the Israeli select-fire service weapons as well as the export market semi-autos, or is it just for semi-auto guns? |
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Posted: 11/10/2016 9:35:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Those getting the Lightning Bow trigger why are you choosing the Timney over the cheaper Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack?
I'm actually okay with my X95 setup from the factory but I bought a Lightning Bow on sale. Whenever the pistol grip comes back in stock I'll swap in the Lightning Bow and see if I like it. In other news, my Manticore buttpad should be here today!!! 
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Posted: 11/10/2016 10:36:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those getting the Lightning Bow trigger why are you choosing the Timney over the cheaper Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack? I'm actually okay with my X95 setup from the factory but I bought a Lightning Bow on sale. Whenever the pistol grip comes back in stock I'll swap in the Lightning Bow and see if I like it. In other news, my Manticore buttpad should be here today!!! Not me. I have a Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack to go with the Lightning Bow. I love my Geissele AR triggers, so it was natural for me to trust their X95 parts. It was $$$, but the trigger is excellent in my X95. |
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Posted: 11/11/2016 6:40:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I understand this correctly, IMI in Israel designed the semi-auto trigger pack for the US market? I am curious about exactly what they would consider an unacceptable pull weight on the trigger, because wow! Does the "new" X95 trigger pack work in the Israeli select-fire service weapons as well as the export market semi-autos, or is it just for semi-auto guns? You probably know this, but U.S. Civilian rifles have to be made in some way that they will not accept military/LE restricted select fire/FA components. In the AR, it's the extra pin hole for the auto sear trip lever being neither present, nor is it's location indicated for easy drilling. For the Tavor, it is that indentation on the right side, and the corresponding protrusion inside the receiver. This prevents an imported sear pack from being installed, as well as preventing those components from being installed into the U.S. sear pack housing. Because that was the modification, a U.S. Compliant sear pack WILL fit into a foreign Tavor. |
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Posted: 11/18/2016 5:00:33 AM EDT
[#22]
I'm liking the Timney, a lot.
I'm a little confused about the packaging claiming to be a 2 stage FCG, (#680), though. |
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Posted: 11/18/2016 7:37:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Shooters choice pack was awesome in mine.
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Posted: 11/18/2016 9:55:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shooters choice pack was awesome in mine. That sounds like a shot of espresso. Do you mean the Shooting Sight Tav-D trigger? If so, I agree. It is quite excellent. |
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Posted: 11/21/2016 8:12:31 AM EDT
[#25]
I was on the bleeding edge with the Tavor trigger and the only aftermarket trigger that worked was the TAV-D which currently resides in the rifle. Timney was a no go even after two returns to the factory but this was a couple years ago and others may work well now. Light strikes with M855 Ball were the main issue earlier.
-- Chuck |
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Posted: 11/25/2016 10:31:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Good news!
IWI has put the loose X95 trigger packs on their site in time for the 20% Cyber Monday sale. Will be $160 plus freight on Monday only. |
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Posted: 11/25/2016 11:14:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good news! IWI has put the loose X95 trigger packs on their site in time for the 20% Cyber Monday sale. Will be $160 plus freight on Monday only. That price is just nuts. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/26/2016 8:41:07 AM EDT
[#28]
It's worth mentioning, the Geissele hammer pack is $245 right now from Geissele and Primary Arms.
Also, considering how many people are buying them, there will probably be a lot of people selling their X95 hammer packs in a few weeks. |
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Posted: 11/27/2016 1:11:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's worth mentioning, the Geissele hammer pack is $245 right now from Geissele and Primary Arms. Also, considering how many people are buying them, there will probably be a lot of people selling their X95 hammer packs in a few weeks. I bit on the Geissle combo deal for the $300 trigger bow and trigger pack. My trigger finger is looking forward to it. Right now it gets about as tired as when I shoot my Nagant revolver in DA. 
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