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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:06:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm on the waiting list for an ODG X95. Some of the accuracy talk has me concerned. The posts showing 3.5" groups at 100 yards are discouraging. I know it's a battle carbine, but that just sucks IMHO. People say that's AK accuracy, but a lot of AK's will shoot better than that with an optic, and some with the crappy stock sights. Before I plop down a grand and a half +, I'd like to know more about this accuracy question. Since the X95 info is still a little scarce, what are you Tavor guys getting from your guns? Any X95 owners please chime in a s well. Thanks! PS, I don't own a bullpup, but have played with an issue AUG. That's my only BP experience. There are guys here getting 1moa groups from their Tavors. I just got mine a week ago, and with my health not been able to do more than 25-50 yards to sight it in. I hope to have a chance to shoot it at longer ranges soon. I just have the factory trigger and am getting used to it, as well as the rifle. It's a different animal. So far with XM193 it looks like I'll be around 2-3moa, but I'll try my hand loads soon, which will shrink that down, as would any match grade ammo. The heavier stuff should shoot better in the 1/7 barrel, but I don't have anything right now in anything but 55gr. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:09:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I'm on the waiting list for an ODG X95. Some of the accuracy talk has me concerned. The posts showing 3.5" groups at 100 yards are discouraging. I know it's a battle carbine, but that just sucks IMHO. People say that's AK accuracy, but a lot of AK's will shoot better than that with an optic, and some with the crappy stock sights. Before I plop down a grand and a half +, I'd like to know more about this accuracy question. Since the X95 info is still a little scarce, what are you Tavor guys getting from your guns? Any X95 owners please chime in a s well. Thanks! PS, I don't own a bullpup, but have played with an issue AUG. That's my only BP experience. Same accuracy. My aug m1 is the most acurrate bullpup under 1 moa rifle. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 4:10:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same accuracy. My aug m1 is the most acurrate bullpup under 1 moa rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm on the waiting list for an ODG X95. Some of the accuracy talk has me concerned. The posts showing 3.5" groups at 100 yards are discouraging. I know it's a battle carbine, but that just sucks IMHO. People say that's AK accuracy, but a lot of AK's will shoot better than that with an optic, and some with the crappy stock sights. Before I plop down a grand and a half +, I'd like to know more about this accuracy question. Since the X95 info is still a little scarce, what are you Tavor guys getting from your guns? Any X95 owners please chime in a s well. Thanks! PS, I don't own a bullpup, but have played with an issue AUG. That's my only BP experience. Same accuracy. My aug m1 is the most acurrate bullpup under 1 moa rifle. With the xps2-2 and g33 plus geissele super Sabra and trigger bow I'm shooting 1-2 moa at 100 yards using 77gr. Mod 1 razorcore. Stretch to 300 yards and I'm roughly 3 moa but haven't measured precisely. Using Tavor |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 5:05:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't mind a carbine getting 2"ish or less with decent ammo and a solid rest. As a practical matter, that accuracy is about all most of us can take advantage of anyway. But, 3"+ is not what I expect out of a "modern" combat weapon, realities of modern combat aside. And no, I don't expect to be in combat, but this is an expensive military carbine. Again, thanks for the info gents.
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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't mind a carbine getting 2"ish or less with decent ammo and a solid rest. As a practical matter, that accuracy is about all most of us can take advantage of anyway. But, 3"+ is not what I expect out of a "modern" combat weapon, realities of modern combat aside. And no, I don't expect to be in combat, but this is an expensive military carbine. Again, thanks for the info gents. Bear in mind that the Tavor is also harder to rest or brace from a bag or barricade than a conventional rifle. Not knocking the Tavor, I love mine, but if shooting for groups is a big concern for you, there are rifles better suited to the job. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:17:18 PM EDT
[#6]
"Accuracy talk"?...that can cover a lot of ground. I'm gonna bet most people going out and shooting these combat style rifles are using bulk ammo, like 55g FMJ, and using red dot optics...or at least not the high dollar glass usually connected with precision shooting. I'm not saying some out there don't have the optics and ammo to do it, just that most probably aren't...hence more reports of not-so-great accuracy. Real accuracy consists of so many things. On the X95 vs. the Tavor, is there really any notable difference in the barrels on these two?
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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:48:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Accuracy talk"?...that can cover a lot of ground. I'm gonna bet most people going out and shooting these combat style rifles are using bulk ammo, like 55g FMJ, and using red dot optics...or at least not the high dollar glass usually connected with precision shooting. I'm not saying some out there don't have the optics and ammo to do it, just that most probably aren't...hence more reports of not-so-great accuracy. Real accuracy consists of so many things. On the X95 vs. the Tavor, is there really any notable difference in the barrels on these two? I'd be willing to bet this is a contributing factor to accuracy statements being made. The GIGO principle is applicable here. If one controlled for all these variables by using a Super Sabra trigger, solid bench/sandbag setup, high-end glass, and match ammo over a large sample size; they will get very valid results of what *the rifle* can do. If you're shooting from an improvised rest, or using bulk ammo/red dot optics/OEM trigger/etc, you're not measuring the inherent mechanical accuracy potential of the rifle. You're measuring a host of things, mostly dealing with your abilities to shoot said rifle. My own data point is similar to those posted above already as my Tavor using just a light rest, TA33, and BH 77TMK. I was getting roughly 2 MOA with consistency. The ammo was likely solid, but the optic/rest/trigger was adding to the groups considerably no doubt. I'd be willing to bet most Tavors are more consistent than their owners give them credit for, if accounting for said variables. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 11:20:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Excellent info again guys. I guess the stellar accuracy of the AUG contributes to my confusion over X95 grouping. I'll likely be shooting 62 gr. Federal SP ammo because that's what I've got. I want a gun which will shoot that and other types of every day ammo well. Match grade accuracy is wasted on me, but it's nice to know a rifle will print small groups if I do my part. If it'll regularly print 2" with quality ammo, it's hard to argue with that. Anyone shoot Federal SP1 62 grain through a Tavor?
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Posted: 4/23/2016 11:30:15 PM EDT
[#9]
i think it's unrealistic for people to expect to be shooting amazing groups with a rifle that they've only had for a week and have shot maybe once or twice. it takes time to get comfortable with how a rifle handles and how the trigger behaves. yes, i can get 1.4 MOA groups with my AUGA1 with 1.5x optic, but i've owned it for 20 years and know it very well. the only way to gauge how an out of the box rifle shoots, without the shooters ability affecting it., is to have it locked in a Ransom Rest type vice
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Posted: 4/24/2016 6:50:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bear in mind that the Tavor is also harder to rest or brace from a bag or barricade than a conventional rifle. Not knocking the Tavor, I love mine, but if shooting for groups is a big concern for you, there are rifles better suited to the job. That last sentence took the words right out of my mouth. I guarantee you that my Tavor is more accurate than any M16 I was ever issued. To be perfectly honest, though, I have never really hunkered down to shoot it for a measurable group. After getting her zeroed, I shoot plates, silhouettes, etc. with it. If I'm shooting for bullseyes and small groups, I have other toys with highly magnified optics on them that I reach for. I know this doesn't answer your question, but like others are saying, a lot of these "accuracy reports" are unreliable because you simply don't know all of the conditions involved during Plumber Joe's unscientific testing. To slightly expand on mcantu's mention of familiarity with a weapon. Halfway into our 4.5 year love affair, I was to be able to consistently squeeze out single shots from my M60. I would even argue that those were probably more accurate than my M16s, too. I could do double taps when I wanted them, as well. No way is anyone going to pick up a machine gun and do that within the first few weeks. Even if we were reunited today, it would take some time to feel her out, before I could reach that level of consistency, again. Heck, I recently changed the leaf spring in my 1911, and I'm still readjusting to the trigger pull on that, now. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:18:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That last sentence took the words right out of my mouth. I guarantee you that my Tavor is more accurate than any M16 I was ever issued. To be perfectly honest, though, I have never really hunkered down to shoot it for a measurable group. After getting her zeroed, I shoot plates, silhouettes, etc. with it. If I'm shooting for bullseyes and small groups, I have other toys with highly magnified optics on them that I reach for. I know this doesn't answer your question, but like others are saying, a lot of these "accuracy reports" are unreliable because you simply don't know all of the conditions involved during Plumber Joe's unscientific testing. To slightly expand on mcantu's mention of familiarity with a weapon. Halfway into our 4.5 year love affair, I was to be able to consistently squeeze out single shots from my M60. I would even argue that those were probably more accurate than my M16s, too. I could do double taps when I wanted them, as well. No way is anyone going to pick up a machine gun and do that within the first few weeks. Even if we were reunited today, it would take some time to feel her out, before I could reach that level of consistency, again. Heck, I recently changed the leaf spring in my 1911, and I'm still readjusting to the trigger pull on that, now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bear in mind that the Tavor is also harder to rest or brace from a bag or barricade than a conventional rifle. Not knocking the Tavor, I love mine, but if shooting for groups is a big concern for you, there are rifles better suited to the job. That last sentence took the words right out of my mouth. I guarantee you that my Tavor is more accurate than any M16 I was ever issued. To be perfectly honest, though, I have never really hunkered down to shoot it for a measurable group. After getting her zeroed, I shoot plates, silhouettes, etc. with it. If I'm shooting for bullseyes and small groups, I have other toys with highly magnified optics on them that I reach for. I know this doesn't answer your question, but like others are saying, a lot of these "accuracy reports" are unreliable because you simply don't know all of the conditions involved during Plumber Joe's unscientific testing. To slightly expand on mcantu's mention of familiarity with a weapon. Halfway into our 4.5 year love affair, I was to be able to consistently squeeze out single shots from my M60. I would even argue that those were probably more accurate than my M16s, too. I could do double taps when I wanted them, as well. No way is anyone going to pick up a machine gun and do that within the first few weeks. Even if we were reunited today, it would take some time to feel her out, before I could reach that level of consistency, again. Heck, I recently changed the leaf spring in my 1911, and I'm still readjusting to the trigger pull on that, now. On the contrary, these responses have given me insight into the Tavor/X95's accuracy potential. And I greatly appreciate the time y'all took. I'm not a match shooter or a paper puncher. I usually use a rifle's sand-bagged accuracy as a reference point. If it'll punch tight (2"or less) groups, then I know it's just up to me to do my part. What I feared was that this design was a 3"-4" weapon and any mistake I made would open it up from there. Another words, I'd rather start at 1-2" than 3-4". Hopefully that explains it well enough. What I believe I'm hearing, is that test doesn't work well for the Tavor family. But, the practical, field shooting accuracy is much higher than bench groups would lead one to believe. Is that correct? If so, then I believe the X95 will work well. I have a stable of AR's and AK's, even some 5.56 Saigas and the highly accurate 5.56 Beryl. I want something different. Not for the zombie apocalypse  , as I'm not a prepper, but when buying a military style weapon, I expect it to handle and perform in a military setting, if it had to. Thanks again gents. I feel better about the X95's accuracy.
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#12]
American Rifleman Tests:
June 2013 Tavor w/Nikon M223 3-12X scope Average ES 2.89" American Eagle 50gr JHP, Hornady 68gr HPBTM, Win 55gr FMJ July 2015 Aug A3M1 w/ Factory 3X scope Average ES 2.12" Hornady 55gr Varmint Express, Federal 68gr Gold Medal BTHP, Norma 77gr TAC BTHP Average of 5 five shot groups from benchrest. But, different ammo, scope, and only one rifle used for each. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 11:04:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Variables!
I can get 2"-3" groups at 100yds with my Tavor, the factory trigger pack, and off-the-shelf commercial M193 or M855 ammo. For the stock rifle and cheap ammo, I'm content with that. With the said ammo, I do notice some variation depending on brand, so that adds another factor into it. But how much of that is the rifle and how much of that is the shooter though? I think it is fair to say that a lot of that is me since that is about what I get from some of my AR's as well at the same range. I won't kid myself about being a marksman. 
The above comments were from a bag. Just over a week ago I was out at 170yds and was able to hit steel silhouettes from offhand (when I did things right) and from prone (with nearly boring monotony). For me, my skill level, the rifle, and the ammo I think that is perfectly acceptable. There are guys in the Tavor group I belong to that can get around 1" groups with nicer ammo and/or, the fancy Geissele trigger bow, and/or the Geissele Super Sabra. I personally like my Tavor as it is and don't want to drop that amount of money into what I see as a fighting rifle as opposed to a precision rifle. If the IWI one is much improved and at a reasonable price, I'd consider that. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 7:33:23 PM EDT
[#14]
I think the Tavor has been sufficiently "field tested" mostly in urban settings by the IAF. IMHO if it is good enough for them, then I can stay alive with it.
If you are looking for "reach out and touch someone", then pull out the 308 caliber long rifle. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 1:05:13 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm pretty disappointed with the accuracy of my tavor, I've had it over a year and have fired >1k through it, tried 55gr, 62gr, 77gr all kinds of ammo, factory, reloads, different scopes (CCO, magnified) , changed the trigger group with a geiselle , pretty much everything and still get lousy groups.
 Will still keep it though as it is a neat gun and will be worth more in the future.
For accuracy I shoot my Lilja barreled 6.5 Grendel which gives my 0.5 MOA at 100 yards 
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:36:44 AM EDT
[#16]
The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 11:34:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 2:26:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 3:33:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways That would make sense if he didn't add the second line about barrels from Bulgaria and Russia being the better of the two. That statement means that those AK barrels must in some way fit the Tavor, which leads to the logical conclusion that he's not only talking about the gas system, which he didn't mention, but rather the action as he actually stated. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 4:36:53 PM EDT
[#20]
The M1Garand also uses a long stroke gas piston and is no slouch in the accuracy department
 . I feel pretty safe with the Tavor family's accuracy at this point. Some other info I've turned up has also helped me decide the X95 is what I want at this point. Thanks for all the replies.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 5:17:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M1Garand also uses a long stroke gas piston and is no slouch in the accuracy department . I feel pretty safe with the Tavor family's accuracy at this point. Some other info I've turned up has also helped me decide the X95 is what I want at this point. Thanks for all the replies.Cool. I thought about waiting, but I knew that anytime I have any amount of money, something requiring that exact amount or $2 more will come up, so I went with the Tavor. It took about one day of monkeying with it to get used to the mag release where it is, how to just back the hand up and pop it with the back of the hand and let the mag drop, and then grab a new mag while doing that and insert it with my thumb up, and let the thumb slide up about an inch and drop the bolt. This is shooting until the mag is empty so the bolt is locked back. It's the fastest thing I've seen yet in mag changes. As far as a tactical reload, I'm pretty well even now , but a tad slower than with an AR. I haven't practiced that but a few times. So, the mag release being moved up to the standard AR position isn't a weak point. The thing that is better on the X95 is the trigger supposedly. I don't hate the trigger on the Tavor, mine isn't bad, just have to get used to it. It breaks like a good double action striker fired pistol trigger, feels a lot like one on take-up. It isn't crisp like an AR trigger, it's spongier, but I think the aftermarket ones make them really close. When I first fired it, it was weird, but now I know exactly where it will break, so shooting for accuracy you just take up the spongy slack and feel the little "wall" of resistance, and then pull from there, hold it, and slowly let the trigger out until it clicks, and don't go any further, and pull again. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 4:09:24 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 4/27/2016 11:57:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would make sense if he didn't add the second line about barrels from Bulgaria and Russia being the better of the two. That statement means that those AK barrels must in some way fit the Tavor, which leads to the logical conclusion that he's not only talking about the gas system, which he didn't mention, but rather the action as he actually stated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways That would make sense if he didn't add the second line about barrels from Bulgaria and Russia being the better of the two. That statement means that those AK barrels must in some way fit the Tavor, which leads to the logical conclusion that he's not only talking about the gas system, which he didn't mention, but rather the action as he actually stated. In the first post you said you think it should do better than an ak, but I was saying that modern ak barrels are very accurate, the major parts are the same, it is a non floated thin military piston rifle that had not been accurized like American guns like the scar or the m1a. An ak barrel will fit if your power is strong enough to believe. If not then just buy more Israel barrels for blasting. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 3:07:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the first post you said you think it should do better than an ak, but I was saying that modern ak barrels are very accurate, the major parts are the same, it is a non floated thin military piston rifle that had not been accurized like American guns like the scar or the m1a. An ak barrel will fit if your power is strong enough to believe. If not then just buy more Israel barrels for blasting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways That would make sense if he didn't add the second line about barrels from Bulgaria and Russia being the better of the two. That statement means that those AK barrels must in some way fit the Tavor, which leads to the logical conclusion that he's not only talking about the gas system, which he didn't mention, but rather the action as he actually stated. In the first post you said you think it should do better than an ak, but I was saying that modern ak barrels are very accurate, the major parts are the same, it is a non floated thin military piston rifle that had not been accurized like American guns like the scar or the m1a. An ak barrel will fit if your power is strong enough to believe. If not then just buy more Israel barrels for blasting. I'm not trying to be harsh here, but you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. None. The major parts are not the same, not even close. How about field stripping your Tavor or X95 and taking a pic of it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:14:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the first post you said you think it should do better than an ak, but I was saying that modern ak barrels are very accurate, the major parts are the same, it is a non floated thin military piston rifle that had not been accurized like American guns like the scar or the m1a. An ak barrel will fit if your power is strong enough to believe. If not then just buy more Israel barrels for blasting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The x95 is basically the same action as a ak Sooo I'm not sure why you expect out to be more accurate? Some would argue the barrels coming from bulgaria and Russia as the better off the two. No, it isn't the same action. It is a long gas stroke design so far as the piston goes, but the bolt carrier, bolt, method of rotation, method of recoil , barrel attachment, tolerances, etc, are all different. The only thing that is the same is the idea behind the gas system. Nothing else, and not even the application of the gas system design are the same. ETA, Are you trying to tell me you think an AK barrel will fit? I think he meant gas system not action. That's what I got out of it anyways That would make sense if he didn't add the second line about barrels from Bulgaria and Russia being the better of the two. That statement means that those AK barrels must in some way fit the Tavor, which leads to the logical conclusion that he's not only talking about the gas system, which he didn't mention, but rather the action as he actually stated. In the first post you said you think it should do better than an ak, but I was saying that modern ak barrels are very accurate, the major parts are the same, it is a non floated thin military piston rifle that had not been accurized like American guns like the scar or the m1a. An ak barrel will fit if your power is strong enough to believe. If not then just buy more Israel barrels for blasting. If you're referring to my first post, I said AK's are accurate (more accurately said, they can be accurate). I said that people say 3+ inches is AK accuracy, which isn't totally correct. I wasn't comparing the AK's accuracy to that of the Tavor family, just saying some of the Tavor accuracy reports are what many people consider AK accuracy. After reading the replies here and watching some videos of people I trust, I think the "field" or "practical" accuracy of the system is quite good. I really enjoy Hickock45's reviews and he was nailing everything he aimed at. Plus, he's tall like me and the weapon still handled well. Jerry Mikulek (sp?) also liked the Tavor. Thanks again guys. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 9:11:59 AM EDT
[#26]
I removed the reset spring from my trigger pack yesterday to see what it would do. It works great. Still resets very positively, even when I carefully hold the trigger after the shot like precision shooting, and then slowly release it.
I cannot tell you exactly what the poundage on the factory was, I've seen them anywhere from 10lbs to 14lbs, but I know that removing the spring had to drop me at least 4lbs , maybe 5-6lbs. I've seen it remove anywhere from 3-6lbs. It was a 2 minute job, and the difference was very, very noticeable. If I have trouble with reset in the future, I will add it back. My thought though, is that I will take the measurements of the spring, and the poundage of it, and order several different ones from a spring company or somewhere and put in the least powerful one that will ensure reset. That's the cheap way, until I get a Super Sabra. |
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Posted: 5/4/2016 6:17:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Just picked up mine yesterday. The trigger feels awesome (for a bullpup). I have not had a chance to fire it yet but sounds to me like this is as accurate as a standard M4/6920, which is expected. |
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Posted: 5/6/2016 11:33:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Has anyone put the x95 in a mechanical rest, or strapped there rifle down.
it seems that a lot of people are getting around 3+ MOA with the x95. when i shot my SAR it was around 1.5" to 2" moa. in my mind the X95 seems like just the SAR repackaged in a different shell, same action, same barrel assembly so I'm not sure why people are having worse groups unless it is a handling problem. Full disclosure i don't have my x95 yet, nor am i trying to to say anyone is not a good shot
just wondering if the accuracy improved with the human factor taken out and the best possible mechanical accuracy.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 7:18:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Just an example that the Tavor can be decent. I haven't had mine but about a month. I've put about 2 mags through it in that time, so I'm not really familiar with it. The only mod I made was to remove the extra reset spring, which seemed to give me a decent pull. I think I got lucky, and I'm down around 5-6 pounds. It felt like about a 12lb trigger originally, so I thought I'd end up at maybe 8 if I got lucky, but it really doesn't feel very hard at all.
The ammo used is current production XM193 5.56 LC brass, AE. I'm shooting from a bench, but it's an unusual method, since I have not come up with a good way to do it yet. What I have is a white plastic table, with a 16" aluminum rimmed 6 cylinder Mustang wheel flipped upside down. Normally, with an AR, I rest the sand bag on top, and use a 50cal ammo can that is full with a second bag on top. With this, you can't do that. You can't use the tire at all. Well, you can, but not exactly. What I did was to lay my elbow on the table, and grab the top of the tire with my non shooting hand, and made a pocket on top of my arm just behind my wrist to lay the hand guard in. Not the best, but good enough for what I was doing today, just checking zero since I moved my scope to a more comfortable position the other day, and I did have to make adjustments. First shot, I remembered I had it on 1X, so I had to put it on 4X, and shoot five more. This is a Burris MTAC with the CQB reticle , so not really a precision deal, it has a big dot for the primary , 100 yard zero dot. So, anyway, 5 shots, one sort of sideways hole, from a really hasty bench. Only 50 yards, but still I think .750 for 5 rounds without a real rest, is pretty good. Hand loads would be half that. It should be 1.5-2.0 moa at 100 with XM193. Hand loads of course would shrink that significantly. A scope with a crosshair and more power would cut it some as well. 
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Posted: 5/9/2016 9:40:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just an example that the Tavor can be decent. I haven't had mine but about a month. I've put about 2 mags through it in that time, so I'm not really familiar with it. The only mod I made was to remove the extra reset spring, which seemed to give me a decent pull. I think I got lucky, and I'm down around 5-6 pounds. It felt like about a 12lb trigger originally, so I thought I'd end up at maybe 8 if I got lucky, but it really doesn't feel very hard at all. The ammo used is current production XM193 5.56 LC brass, AE. I'm shooting from a bench, but it's an unusual method, since I have not come up with a good way to do it yet. What I have is a white plastic table, with a 16" aluminum rimmed 6 cylinder Mustang wheel flipped upside down. Normally, with an AR, I rest the sand bag on top, and use a 50cal ammo can that is full with a second bag on top. With this, you can't do that. You can't use the tire at all. Well, you can, but not exactly. What I did was to lay my elbow on the table, and grab the top of the tire with my non shooting hand, and made a pocket on top of my arm just behind my wrist to lay the hand guard in. Not the best, but good enough for what I was doing today, just checking zero since I moved my scope to a more comfortable position the other day, and I did have to make adjustments. First shot, I remembered I had it on 1X, so I had to put it on 4X, and shoot five more. This is a Burris MTAC with the CQB reticle , so not really a precision deal, it has a big dot for the primary , 100 yard zero dot. So, anyway, 5 shots, one sort of sideways hole, from a really hasty bench. Only 50 yards, but still I think .750 for 5 rounds without a real rest, is pretty good. Hand loads would be half that. It should be 1.5-2.0 moa at 100 with XM193. Hand loads of course would shrink that significantly. A scope with a crosshair and more power would cut it some as well. http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180824_10209362692013631_1508571321_n.jpg?oh=76def20a0429bb4bad07ca68dfe67653&oe=5733957A http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180968_10209362692133634_803973_n.jpg?oh=e19b7cc07e0c932b0d9a50cf824971e1&oe=5732775E Excellent groups. Two mags in a month? Get out and abuse that thing, and don't give me the "I'm to busy speal". 
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Posted: 5/10/2016 2:33:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent groups. Two mags in a month? Get out and abuse that thing, and don't give me the "I'm to busy speal".
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just an example that the Tavor can be decent. I haven't had mine but about a month. I've put about 2 mags through it in that time, so I'm not really familiar with it. The only mod I made was to remove the extra reset spring, which seemed to give me a decent pull. I think I got lucky, and I'm down around 5-6 pounds. It felt like about a 12lb trigger originally, so I thought I'd end up at maybe 8 if I got lucky, but it really doesn't feel very hard at all. The ammo used is current production XM193 5.56 LC brass, AE. I'm shooting from a bench, but it's an unusual method, since I have not come up with a good way to do it yet. What I have is a white plastic table, with a 16" aluminum rimmed 6 cylinder Mustang wheel flipped upside down. Normally, with an AR, I rest the sand bag on top, and use a 50cal ammo can that is full with a second bag on top. With this, you can't do that. You can't use the tire at all. Well, you can, but not exactly. What I did was to lay my elbow on the table, and grab the top of the tire with my non shooting hand, and made a pocket on top of my arm just behind my wrist to lay the hand guard in. Not the best, but good enough for what I was doing today, just checking zero since I moved my scope to a more comfortable position the other day, and I did have to make adjustments. First shot, I remembered I had it on 1X, so I had to put it on 4X, and shoot five more. This is a Burris MTAC with the CQB reticle , so not really a precision deal, it has a big dot for the primary , 100 yard zero dot. So, anyway, 5 shots, one sort of sideways hole, from a really hasty bench. Only 50 yards, but still I think .750 for 5 rounds without a real rest, is pretty good. Hand loads would be half that. It should be 1.5-2.0 moa at 100 with XM193. Hand loads of course would shrink that significantly. A scope with a crosshair and more power would cut it some as well. http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180824_10209362692013631_1508571321_n.jpg?oh=76def20a0429bb4bad07ca68dfe67653&oe=5733957A http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180968_10209362692133634_803973_n.jpg?oh=e19b7cc07e0c932b0d9a50cf824971e1&oe=5732775E Excellent groups. Two mags in a month? Get out and abuse that thing, and don't give me the "I'm to busy speal".
My health keeps me in a lot. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 10:42:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My health keeps me in a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just an example that the Tavor can be decent. I haven't had mine but about a month. I've put about 2 mags through it in that time, so I'm not really familiar with it. The only mod I made was to remove the extra reset spring, which seemed to give me a decent pull. I think I got lucky, and I'm down around 5-6 pounds. It felt like about a 12lb trigger originally, so I thought I'd end up at maybe 8 if I got lucky, but it really doesn't feel very hard at all. The ammo used is current production XM193 5.56 LC brass, AE. I'm shooting from a bench, but it's an unusual method, since I have not come up with a good way to do it yet. What I have is a white plastic table, with a 16" aluminum rimmed 6 cylinder Mustang wheel flipped upside down. Normally, with an AR, I rest the sand bag on top, and use a 50cal ammo can that is full with a second bag on top. With this, you can't do that. You can't use the tire at all. Well, you can, but not exactly. What I did was to lay my elbow on the table, and grab the top of the tire with my non shooting hand, and made a pocket on top of my arm just behind my wrist to lay the hand guard in. Not the best, but good enough for what I was doing today, just checking zero since I moved my scope to a more comfortable position the other day, and I did have to make adjustments. First shot, I remembered I had it on 1X, so I had to put it on 4X, and shoot five more. This is a Burris MTAC with the CQB reticle , so not really a precision deal, it has a big dot for the primary , 100 yard zero dot. So, anyway, 5 shots, one sort of sideways hole, from a really hasty bench. Only 50 yards, but still I think .750 for 5 rounds without a real rest, is pretty good. Hand loads would be half that. It should be 1.5-2.0 moa at 100 with XM193. Hand loads of course would shrink that significantly. A scope with a crosshair and more power would cut it some as well. http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180824_10209362692013631_1508571321_n.jpg?oh=76def20a0429bb4bad07ca68dfe67653&oe=5733957A http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180968_10209362692133634_803973_n.jpg?oh=e19b7cc07e0c932b0d9a50cf824971e1&oe=5732775E Excellent groups. Two mags in a month? Get out and abuse that thing, and don't give me the "I'm to busy speal".
My health keeps me in a lot. OK, that's a good answer. Sorry brother, hope you feel better and everything works out |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 11:15:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, that's a good answer. Sorry brother, hope you feel better and everything works out Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just an example that the Tavor can be decent. I haven't had mine but about a month. I've put about 2 mags through it in that time, so I'm not really familiar with it. The only mod I made was to remove the extra reset spring, which seemed to give me a decent pull. I think I got lucky, and I'm down around 5-6 pounds. It felt like about a 12lb trigger originally, so I thought I'd end up at maybe 8 if I got lucky, but it really doesn't feel very hard at all. The ammo used is current production XM193 5.56 LC brass, AE. I'm shooting from a bench, but it's an unusual method, since I have not come up with a good way to do it yet. What I have is a white plastic table, with a 16" aluminum rimmed 6 cylinder Mustang wheel flipped upside down. Normally, with an AR, I rest the sand bag on top, and use a 50cal ammo can that is full with a second bag on top. With this, you can't do that. You can't use the tire at all. Well, you can, but not exactly. What I did was to lay my elbow on the table, and grab the top of the tire with my non shooting hand, and made a pocket on top of my arm just behind my wrist to lay the hand guard in. Not the best, but good enough for what I was doing today, just checking zero since I moved my scope to a more comfortable position the other day, and I did have to make adjustments. First shot, I remembered I had it on 1X, so I had to put it on 4X, and shoot five more. This is a Burris MTAC with the CQB reticle , so not really a precision deal, it has a big dot for the primary , 100 yard zero dot. So, anyway, 5 shots, one sort of sideways hole, from a really hasty bench. Only 50 yards, but still I think .750 for 5 rounds without a real rest, is pretty good. Hand loads would be half that. It should be 1.5-2.0 moa at 100 with XM193. Hand loads of course would shrink that significantly. A scope with a crosshair and more power would cut it some as well. http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180824_10209362692013631_1508571321_n.jpg?oh=76def20a0429bb4bad07ca68dfe67653&oe=5733957A http://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13180968_10209362692133634_803973_n.jpg?oh=e19b7cc07e0c932b0d9a50cf824971e1&oe=5732775E Excellent groups. Two mags in a month? Get out and abuse that thing, and don't give me the "I'm to busy speal".
My health keeps me in a lot. OK, that's a good answer. Sorry brother, hope you feel better and everything works out Thanks. 35 years of this stuff, some real good ones, some real bad ones. I'm waiting on some real good ones again now , in about the 8th year of a bad spell. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 7:18:00 PM EDT
[#34]
I did some shooting today with the X95. My first rounds and they felt great. I put about 120 rounds through it with zero issues. I didn't do any really serious accuracy work, but all this talk had me anxious. I bolted a 1.5x16 ACOG on it and put 5 rounds into a bit less than an inch (group on left). I tried to dial in the ACOG and sent another three down. they printed maybe 1/2". The squares on the target equal 1".
Then out to 100. I fired a 5 shot group and it printed 2.5". Not too shabby considering my reticle is a dot which is about 4" (at least) and had no real magnification.  .
All in all, this is the same accuracy I get from GI M4's. I was using a long sand bag and I rested the pistol grip on it at the rear and my hand holding the VFG at the front. Offhand, it shot very well. My friend and I (both heavily experienced with AR's) were nailing a torso sized (without arms) target with boring ease and speed at 100 yards. With the X95 it's actually easy to quickly double-tap a torso target at 100 yards. That surprised both of us. Afterward, I pulled the carrier group out and the bolt was clean. The piston had carbon, but it all came off with a dry paper towel. I'm very happy with my X95!
ETA: I was using Federal .223 62 gr. bonded SP's. I consider this perfectly good accuracy with such a good SD load. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 7:28:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did some shooting today with the X95. My first rounds and they felt great. I put about 120 rounds through it with zero issues. I didn't do any really serious accuracy work, but all this talk had me anxious. I bolted a 1.5x16 ACOG on it and put 5 rounds into a bit less than an inch (group on left). I tried to dial in the ACOG and sent another three down. they printed maybe 1/2". The squares on the target equal 1". http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/jdk112/IMG_0293_zpsjbnn6h9u.jpg Then out to 100. I fired a 5 shot group and it printed 2.5". Not too shabby considering my reticle is a dot which is about 4" (at least) and had no real magnification. http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/jdk112/IMG_0295_zpshw2dtnbh.jpg. All in all, this is the same accuracy I get from GI M4's. I was using a long sand bag and I rested the pistol grip on it at the rear and my hand holding the VFG at the front. Offhand, it shot very well. My friend and I (both heavily experienced with AR's) were nailing a torso sized (without arms) target with boring ease and speed at 100 yards. With the X95 it's actually easy to quickly double-tap a torso target at 100 yards. That surprised both of us. Afterward, I pulled the carrier group out and the bolt was clean. The piston had carbon, but it all came off with a dry paper towel. I'm very happy with my X95!
ETA: I was using Federal .223 62 gr. bonded SP's. I consider this perfectly good accuracy with such a good SD load. Nice |
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Posted: 6/4/2016 2:09:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Man, wish I had found the accuracy issues before getting the x95. I purchased it from other generally positive reviews on the gun and was just today checking what fodder it liked most and come upon 3 different forum posts about the accuracy being achieved. Also a gunsmith friend of mine owns a Tavor and really likes if but he shoots 68
grain hand loads. What I am reading is most disappointing. I was thinking because of the new trigger, the new x95 would be decent accuracy (1moa at 100). Looks like it is stringing horizonal regardless of ammo being used and is very finicky based on the comments as to grains being tested. Looks like I will be selling it before shooting it cause I am not interested in a weapon so finicky with the ammo as being reported. If you cant get close to 1 moa at 100 then at 300 to 500 good luck at hitting anything. Was hoping this could be my number one go to from house to 400 but doesnt look like it is going to do be able to do that job. Back to my RR and MTI for house to 500. Its up for sale,.,.really disappointing |
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Posted: 6/4/2016 3:06:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Weapons are like women you don't know what you've got until you live with it for awhile. I would suggest shooting it before you sell it. I'm getting 2 MOA and can consistently hit to 300 meters on steel. All of the weapons i have owned over the years are different. They can be the same make, model and even batch but they all shoot different. Don't give in to the hype just yet.
SFC |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 11:36:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, wish I had found the accuracy issues before getting the x95. I purchased it from other generally positive reviews on the gun and was just today checking what fodder it liked most and come upon 3 different forum posts about the accuracy being achieved. Also a gunsmith friend of mine owns a Tavor and really likes if but he shoots 68 grain hand loads. What I am reading is most disappointing. I was thinking because of the new trigger, the new x95 would be decent accuracy (1moa at 100). Looks like it is stringing horizonal regardless of ammo being used and is very finicky based on the comments as to grains being tested. Looks like I will be selling it before shooting it cause I am not interested in a weapon so finicky with the ammo as being reported. If you cant get close to 1 moa at 100 then at 300 to 500 good luck at hitting anything. Was hoping this could be my number one go to from house to 400 but doesnt look like it is going to do be able to do that job. Back to my RR and MTI for house to 500. Its up for sale,.,.really disappointing You really need to be looking at guns like LaRue, Wilson Combat, etc if your expectation is 1 moa. Tavor SAR, X95, Steyr AUG, FS2000, Colt M4, etc, etc aren't 1 moa guns. You're looking for a precision rifle. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:27:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really need to be looking at guns like LaRue, Wilson Combat, etc if your expectation is 1 moa. Tavor SAR, X95, Steyr AUG, FS2000, Colt M4, etc, etc aren't 1 moa guns. You're looking for a precision rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Man, wish I had found the accuracy issues before getting the x95. I purchased it from other generally positive reviews on the gun and was just today checking what fodder it liked most and come upon 3 different forum posts about the accuracy being achieved. Also a gunsmith friend of mine owns a Tavor and really likes if but he shoots 68 grain hand loads. What I am reading is most disappointing. I was thinking because of the new trigger, the new x95 would be decent accuracy (1moa at 100). Looks like it is stringing horizonal regardless of ammo being used and is very finicky based on the comments as to grains being tested. Looks like I will be selling it before shooting it cause I am not interested in a weapon so finicky with the ammo as being reported. If you cant get close to 1 moa at 100 then at 300 to 500 good luck at hitting anything. Was hoping this could be my number one go to from house to 400 but doesnt look like it is going to do be able to do that job. Back to my RR and MTI for house to 500. Its up for sale,.,.really disappointing You really need to be looking at guns like LaRue, Wilson Combat, etc if your expectation is 1 moa. Tavor SAR, X95, Steyr AUG, FS2000, Colt M4, etc, etc aren't 1 moa guns. You're looking for a precision rifle. if a 20+ year old AUG with a 1.5x optic can do 1.26 MOA with 55gr ball ammo, i'd say that the rifle is probably capable of 1 MOA if the shooter (me) was taken out of the equation... The Gun Steyr AUG-A1 20" barrel; 1:9 twist 1.5x optic front sandbag rest  GECO 55gr  |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 4:04:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if a 20+ year old AUG with a 1.5x optic can do 1.26 MOA with 55gr ball ammo, i'd say that the rifle is probably capable of 1 MOA if the shooter (me) was taken out of the equation... The Gun Steyr AUG-A1 20" barrel; 1:9 twist 1.5x optic front sandbag rest <a href="http://i60.tinypic.com/sf8nrr.jpg" target="_blank">http://i60.tinypic.com/sf8nrr.jpg</a> GECO 55gr <a href="http://i59.tinypic.com/20selp3.jpg" target="_blank">http://i59.tinypic.com/20selp3.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Man, wish I had found the accuracy issues before getting the x95. I purchased it from other generally positive reviews on the gun and was just today checking what fodder it liked most and come upon 3 different forum posts about the accuracy being achieved. Also a gunsmith friend of mine owns a Tavor and really likes if but he shoots 68 grain hand loads. What I am reading is most disappointing. I was thinking because of the new trigger, the new x95 would be decent accuracy (1moa at 100). Looks like it is stringing horizonal regardless of ammo being used and is very finicky based on the comments as to grains being tested. Looks like I will be selling it before shooting it cause I am not interested in a weapon so finicky with the ammo as being reported. If you cant get close to 1 moa at 100 then at 300 to 500 good luck at hitting anything. Was hoping this could be my number one go to from house to 400 but doesnt look like it is going to do be able to do that job. Back to my RR and MTI for house to 500. Its up for sale,.,.really disappointing You really need to be looking at guns like LaRue, Wilson Combat, etc if your expectation is 1 moa. Tavor SAR, X95, Steyr AUG, FS2000, Colt M4, etc, etc aren't 1 moa guns. You're looking for a precision rifle. if a 20+ year old AUG with a 1.5x optic can do 1.26 MOA with 55gr ball ammo, i'd say that the rifle is probably capable of 1 MOA if the shooter (me) was taken out of the equation... The Gun Steyr AUG-A1 20" barrel; 1:9 twist 1.5x optic front sandbag rest <a href="http://i60.tinypic.com/sf8nrr.jpg" target="_blank">http://i60.tinypic.com/sf8nrr.jpg</a> GECO 55gr <a href="http://i59.tinypic.com/20selp3.jpg" target="_blank">http://i59.tinypic.com/20selp3.jpg</a> 
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Posted: 6/11/2016 11:06:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear.
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Posted: 6/11/2016 11:51:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WpuyTPv4
Same experience I had shooting one at a steel silhouette target at 200 yards only with a 1-6 scope. It was stupid easy to hit it every shot, but an AK isn't that diificult at that range with only irons. I liked it, but not sure if I will purchase one yet. |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 11:58:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WpuyTPv4
So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 2:01:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WpuyTPv4So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. If you make every buying decision on price, then yes. Buy that AK and be happy with it. Some folks are happy driving a 20 year old Toyota Celica and others want a 2016 Corvette. To each their own. Both will get you from point A to point B. It's a matter of personal preference. Not everyone buys on price alone. |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 3:23:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WpuyTPv4
So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. Rob Ski Says yes
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Posted: 6/12/2016 9:47:09 AM EDT
[#46]
I wouldn't necessarily consider a SLR 107 a typical rack grade AK (that would be a WASR) It seems to run at or over $1k for the base model, when in stock. Rob's has obvious improvements such as a serious tactical forend, cheek riser, compensator, not to mention the RS Regulate add on's. We also don't know what sort of trigger/work has been done internally. Plus, Rob's kind of the man with AK's anyway
. I would guess, and it's just a guess, that without optics Rob's gun is more like $1300+, with wood and a spray painted finish. Yes, Arsenal spray paints their guns and it's horrible. At times they haven't even had a light park underneath. Rob got one which rusted and bubbled severely during testing. So, that gun and the X95 probably have a $300 difference and, even if they shot exactly the same, the bull pup design and advanced, carefree materials easily make up for that small difference. That said, I have many AK's, but I also have an X95
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Posted: 6/12/2016 12:10:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you make every buying decision on price, then yes. Buy that AK and be happy with it. Some folks are happy driving a 20 year old Toyota Celica and others want a 2016 Corvette. To each their own. Both will get you from point A to point B. It's a matter of personal preference. Not everyone buys on price alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you hit a man sized target at combat ranges with your weapon? If so, I think your fighting rifle is going to serve you well. Most gun fights rarely turn into benchrest competitions, or so I hear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WpuyTPv4
So any shooter should just buy a rack grade AK-47 instead of an x95 and save a over a thousand dollars then. If you make every buying decision on price, then yes. Buy that AK and be happy with it. Some folks are happy driving a 20 year old Toyota Celica and others want a 2016 Corvette. To each their own. Both will get you from point A to point B. It's a matter of personal preference. Not everyone buys on price alone. Its not just based on price its also based on performance. If celicas preformed the same as vettes, no one in their right mind would buy vettes for the price point. You'd be a fool not to look at both price and performance before you buy. , its no different than a potential customer comparing ammunition choices, holster choices, optics choices, etc. From all these posts it looks like the x95 is a gloried 3-4 MOA shooter at best, nothing a 800 dollar ak wont give you, at a more competitive price point. |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 12:13:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't necessarily consider a SLR 107 a typical rack grade AK (that would be a WASR) It seems to run at or over $1k for the base model, when in stock. Rob's has obvious improvements such as a serious tactical forend, cheek riser, compensator, not to mention the RS Regulate add on's. We also don't know what sort of trigger/work has been done internally. Plus, Rob's kind of the man with AK's anyway . I would guess, and it's just a guess, that without optics Rob's gun is more like $1300+, with wood and a spray painted finish. Yes, Arsenal spray paints their guns and it's horrible. At times they haven't even had a light park underneath. Rob got one which rusted and bubbled severely during testing. So, that gun and the X95 probably have a $300 difference and, even if they shot exactly the same, the bull pup design and advanced, carefree materials easily make up for that small difference. That said, I have many AK's, but I also have an X95Atlantic Firearms has WASRs in stock for 649.00 right now or Yugo Zastava N-PAP for 629.99. Both will give 3-4 MOA results. https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ak47-yugo-zastava-n-pap-fixed-wood-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0 https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-ak-47-wasr-10-7-62x39mm-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0 |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 1:23:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Atlantic Firearms has WASRs in stock for 649.00 right now or Yugo Zastava N-PAP for 629.99. Both will give 3-4 MOA results. https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ak47-yugo-zastava-n-pap-fixed-wood-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0 https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-ak-47-wasr-10-7-62x39mm-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't necessarily consider a SLR 107 a typical rack grade AK (that would be a WASR) It seems to run at or over $1k for the base model, when in stock. Rob's has obvious improvements such as a serious tactical forend, cheek riser, compensator, not to mention the RS Regulate add on's. We also don't know what sort of trigger/work has been done internally. Plus, Rob's kind of the man with AK's anyway . I would guess, and it's just a guess, that without optics Rob's gun is more like $1300+, with wood and a spray painted finish. Yes, Arsenal spray paints their guns and it's horrible. At times they haven't even had a light park underneath. Rob got one which rusted and bubbled severely during testing. So, that gun and the X95 probably have a $300 difference and, even if they shot exactly the same, the bull pup design and advanced, carefree materials easily make up for that small difference. That said, I have many AK's, but I also have an X95Atlantic Firearms has WASRs in stock for 649.00 right now or Yugo Zastava N-PAP for 629.99. Both will give 3-4 MOA results. https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ak47-yugo-zastava-n-pap-fixed-wood-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0 https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-ak-47-wasr-10-7-62x39mm-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0 This accuracy issue seems to be something only on the X-95, the Tavors are shooting 1.5-2moa. They'll sort the issue out. Now, give me the AK, which is 35" long in a 26" long package without it losing velocity and range, and without me spending $200 on a tax stamp and waiting a half year or more for government approval. The difference in LOP between the Tavor and the X95 isn't enough to justify the accuracy losses between the two right now. If they get the accuracy issues worked out, then maybe, but honestly, I'm faster with mag changes with the rear mag release on the Tavor than I ever was with the AR15, and I shot 10s of thousands of rounds from the ARs over the last couple of decades. The X95 having it in the Ar position really doesn't mean anything when the Tavor system is actually faster when mastered. The two are the same OAL at 26" , so OP, I'd sell them if you don't ever shoot them, and really want a Tavor, but I wouldn't buy an X95 yet. |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 1:52:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Pavlov, I'm the OP
. I got my ODG X95 and love it. As posted, I got ~2.25" at 100 yards. But, that gun is fast as lightning and like shooting a laser off-hand out to that distance on steel torso targets. I'm keeping my AKs and ARs, and I'm thrilled to have apparently over spent on the X95 as well!
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