If SHOT was able to limit attendance to only those who had a valid reason for being there, i.e. those within the industry and press, and could keep out the non-employee hangers on, I don't think we'd have as much of a problem as we see today.  However, with everyone and their dog able to get a pass from a friend in the industry to attend, it's turned into a giant fingerbang gunshow where you leave frustrated because you can't buy anything.  But it sure does boost the chatter about the products!

How long ago was Shot actually like that? Before having a YouTube channel became an in?

And THIS is the reason the MDR is so massively delayed????  "Dog ate the blueprints" is a better answer than "Too many people at SHOT!" fer cryin' outloud!

No one ever said that...

If this thing ever comes out i can't wait to see when the butt hurt starts about part kits never being available. JK

What do we think todays update will be?

Hopefully that they are shipping, but i'm no longer a betting man...I can't keep losing money to sven!

Ya, gotta save it for any more unforeseen price hikes

They just make these damn updates so much more difficult than they need to be.

They're following the Hollywood trend of a teaser for a teaser of a trailer for a movie.

They posted hours ago on instagram that the update was live on Facebook and their blog, yet it is nowhere to be found on either site as of 2000 CST.

Copied and pasted below

Dear Valued Customers,
We are happy with the performance of the production MDRs. We are also very excited that your guns will be in your hands soon. I appreciate you sticking with us during the MDR launch. There have been some questions about MDR specifications and performance that we haven’t officially addressed yet and I wanted to cover some of those in this letter. I also thought it would be a great idea for you, our valued customers, to ask us questions that you have about the MDR or if there is something you want to watch us do with the MDR let us know and we will try to accommodate it. Once a week we will choose one of your questions and post a video demonstration of it. Please ask your questions in this facebook posting (any questions outside of this posting will not be selected).

The first question I will address in this letter is how our MDR production is going.
MDR Production:
The MDR production is going very well, most everything is on target but the ejection chutes are running three weeks behind we are working hard to catch those parts back up as it sits now all deliveries will be pushed back one month due to this delay making the first batch of MDR’s delivery April 2017.

Several of you have asked about the recent increase in the advertised weight of the MDR rifle.
Weight Comparison:
The previous advertised weight is what our prototype rifles weighed. During development, we needed to increase the amount of steel parts used in the MDR to increase the durability and dependability of the rifles, we also increased the barrel diameter slightly to reduce issues typically associated with overheating of barrels. Here is a comparison of the MDR’s weight to some of the most notable 7.62x51 rifles available and you can see the MDR’s weight is still very light in comparison:
MDR 7.62x51 8.35 lbs
Colt .308 8.4 lbs
FN SCAR H 8.6 lbs
Ruger SR-762 8.6 lbs
Sig 762 Patrol 9.5 lbs
HK MR762 9.8 lbs

Many have asked about trigger pull weight, we have already posted the trigger pull weight but we really need to list it on our website, here it is again for those who missed it.
Trigger Weight:
The trigger pull weight on production MDR’s is measuring at 4.8 lbs on average.

Here is something new that you didn’t know about the MDR.
Bore Obstruction Test Results:
The MDR utilizes our proprietary “overpressure gas control system”. We developed this system to minimize risk of injury/death to a shooter during a catastrophic failure event of their MDR rifle. Catastrophic failures are caused when a live round is fired through an obstructed bore. The most severe form of bore obstruction is when a projectile gets lodged inside the barrel and then a live round is fired from behind it. We simulated this condition by hammering projectiles just forward of the chambers of rifles and firing standard full power cartridge from behind them. We did this to the MDR as well as other rifles to establish a baseline for what the industry has deemed an acceptable safety standard. Understand this is not a knock on the other rifles we tested, we are simulating the worst expected failure that a rifle can sustain. We only illustrate the sample rifles to show what our “overpressure gas control system” has been able to do compared to rifles without a similar system. Please read the legal disclaimer below prior to watching the video.

Legal disclaimer: Bore obstruction testing is very dangerous and should not be duplicated because it causes uncontrollable and unpredictable pressure spikes that can explode a firearm and injure or kill the user or bystanders. Desert Tech assumes no responsibility for the actions or injuries that could result for anyone who attempts this test. Desert Tech discloses that the MDR’s “overpressure gas control system” was designed to substantially reduce weapon fragmentation during a catastrophic failure and in turn minimize potential injury to the shooter or bystanders, and in DT’s internal testing the “overpressure gas control system” accomplished this goal, however due to the hazardous nature and unpredictable pressures that occur during a catastrophic failure Desert Tech cannot guarantee a person’s safety and/or guarantee that the same results illustrated in this video will occur.

I again appreciate all of you that support us in our efforts and believe in our products. Now is the chance for you to see the MDR do what you haven’t been able to see yet. It will be a fun time for my marketing team too. For delivery status’s watch for updates from us and check the delivery schedule on our website or check with your dealer. If there will be any changes I will keep you alerted to any production updates as they come.

Sincerely

Nicholas Young

Check out the bore obstruction test results here: https://youtu.be/YCd7gSTSp20

Lol

Like expected.  

Maybe ship the guns without the ejection chute,  or may I assume the chutes are just another scapegoat to whats really going on.

Eta:  every single update has a New release date that is never met.  Next quarter, next quarter, next month, etc.

Waiting on DT supporters to spin this optimistically.

But it's only added one more month of delays, it's obviously not a big deal 

i expect "two more weeks" or "next quarter" at the next update.  It's like they're trying to test that  mathematical theorem that there is always another halfway point between them and their destination/release.

I see the MDR has offically ballooned by 1.05 pounds.

And I have no skin in the game. But yeah, LOL about the new delay.

LOL! This is my go to thread for a good laugh.

Fanboi: but it's only 3 weeks; and it's going to have super duper accuracy! Gee willikers, the Red Ryder BB gun is only 7 pounds lighter than the MDR for goodness sake.

Are they claiming from that video that the MDR cannot KB??

Also on February 24th DT posted on facebook that the first MDR's are shipping in March.

Here we are 6 whole days later and now they have discovered they cannot ship until April due to not having all of the parts ready.  

That video is retarded.

(1) Why not show the "competition" test rifle? Is there a law against a company showing another company's product exploding?
(2) Why show the MDR test from a different angle? Assuming the knew what the results would be from previous tests and that it wouldn't frag the camera, why not show the same angle as the other AND the close angle. I want to see what happened to the barrel.
(3) The comparison weights don't make it seem any worse than the competition. But what does the 5.56mm and 300 BLK weigh in at?

I think the money I have set aside for this rifle is going to be spent on a thermal scope.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC wasn't the .223 version a good 1+ lb heavier than the .308? If that translates over, that's a pig compared to its competition.

ETA: the website lists both as 8.4, I don't know if it's been updated fully though given their recent revisions, and given that they probably haven't finalized the design of the .223 parts either.

What a bunch of amateurs. Seriously, this is the worst release I've ever seen. Nicholas Young needs to fire himself, and the whole marketing department with him.That video was amateurish to the max, and same with the rambling writing of that "update".

This stuff makes me cringe so hard.

At this point you could spend it on a pet monkey and come out ahead.  These guys are starting to dig their own grave on this.

Do they not have an industry rep on here? Or at least a personal account without a paid dealer acct?

This is comical

Exactly.  Assuming its an apples to apples comparison test they dont even show the whole MDR in the video.

Are we supposed to just believe that they came up with some groundbreaking way to vent an overpressured chamber when they cant even accomplisj the simpler tasks of part suppliers that can keep up with their timetables and honest communications?

That shouldn't even be a question. You have other rifles that shoot, but do you have magical eyes to see heat?

No. Get the thermal.

Dude I've just written this off by now as a Bren 10.  I was excited, and do hope they eventually figure it out.  But this is looking more likely to collapse the company, then actually be a success.  the price point has gotten so high, the weight spec so bad, that I just don't see it.  Would love to proven wrong, a nice sub MOA long-range capable 6.5CM would be super cool.  

But yea.  Glad they tried (well.. not really, as it may have displaced more likely suppliers), but at this point, I fear the pre-purchases are Bren10 customers circa 2015,(well 2016,  well 2017,  eh.. 2018).  I've given up, and moving on.  At the cash burn rate they are doing, and a product priced out of the market... yea.   If this company is still in business in 2019, I'll be surprised.

The problem as I see it at this point is that DT tried to go from being a smaller company, well known and respected for long range, accurate bolt guns, into a full blown manufacturing company with a broad audience and correspondingly a lot more public interested (and I am assuming more capital invested). The problem is it seems they didn't fully understand everything that this would entail and as such it took them a long time to up their production capacity/facilities. When they did they were keen to show it off to the world and while it was certainly cool, to them, it really just kind of showed everyone else that they were behind where they should have been in the first place. The one thing they forgot to upgrade was their marketing and PR team who have handled everything so badly it is stunning people haven't been fired for this. I've seriously seen better, clearer and more concise campaigns that include delays and disappointments run by people in their late teens rolling out indie games (this is not a slight on indie game devs or modders I just happen to have some experience here).

The other thing it has done is make their CEO look stupid. I don't mean this in an offensive way I mean it in a way that he has consistently put out press releases full of spelling and grammatical errors that seem like they were written, making him appear to be less than intelligent, at the last minute (the persistent use of "do" when he means to say "due" for example) and the fact that he has the on camera presence of a dead cow. In all honesty they really need their PR team to proof read his stuff and give him some on camera classes ASAP or else the damage that this whole PR campaign has done to their company will be damning at best and irreversible at worst. My fear is that their "PR team" is probably one person or no people and that is why this whole thing is seems rushed and poorly executed.

I don't pretend to be a marketing guru by any means but so much of the damage they have done is self inflicted and stinks of someone running their first ever product roll out. As many of you have pointed out if you are showing your product in comparison to another one you show the metrics and keep the angles, shots etc the same. Why? Because any change in the way you show your product will immediately raise suspension, even if your product truly did out perform the competition. You can always throw in some glory shots later in the video if you really want to pimp your product.

I didn't mean for this to come across as rant and i'm not even mad despite being invested in their product. At this point i'm in to the bitter end just to see what they actually manage to produce. I am simply baffled at how amateurish DT has shown itself to be as a company. Before anyone leaps to their defense for being a "small company" or something I will reiterate that a) they should have done an actual business plan/market study of what they were getting themselves into and b) being small does not equate to being incompetent on how you portray yourself to your target audience.

Roll on April time to make me an April Fool!

TL:DR: DT you could have taken your time with this thing and released it 3-4 years after it announced to great fanfare but instead you screwed up the PR campaign to epic proportions.

No high price point for me. I pre-paid and no price increase. I don't care about the weight change. Actually I was a little concerned that the lighter weight would increase the felt recoil. I'm relieved.
As far as pre-purchase Bren 10 customer, I really, really wished that I had pre-ordered the Bren when I had the chance. I'd at least have one and not be looking at the $3,000 price tags now if you can find one. If you really believe that the MDR will be the new Bren 10, then I'm really OK with this too. That would mean that I would own a firearm destined to become an icon and a rare collector's item with the attendant high increase in collector's value with a potential to double or triple in price/value.  Although, I'd prefer to get a fully functioning MDR for the purpose of shooting and self defense. Sounds like a winner either way. Thanks for that.

This. If no NVG or thermal then you must.

HEAVIER? WTF?

Yeah... I'll wait for all the early adopters to provide feedback and fund the R&D for the Gen 2.

Mag block and barrel, if the .223 and .308 barrels are the same outside profile.

sounds like they are still in r&d phase of this gun and all reports of ready to ship is nothing short of bulllllshittttttttt. they really jumped the gun on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well 2017 didn't really have any new guns that got me excited about so, oh well

order one... maybe in a year or so they'll email you to tell you they haven't built it yet...

that's my co-worker's experience so far... but they have sent him a bumper sticker!

I hope that works out for you.  I don't think it will.

Desert Tech has started to be somewhat combative to the people posting comments on their Facebook page in the last week or so.  

They have said that any person or negative posts will be banned and erased.  

I am fascinated how they act as if people with money invested have no right to question their antics.  Meanwhile the only posts that seem to get any response out of DT are the negative ones.  

How many times have they came out and said they would release info only to have it be the most bland video or function test you have ever seen.  It makes me annoyed to see all of the people that comment on how gracious and confidence inspiring it is when they do release something on social media.

 All the time I am wondering why we cant get a simple video showing accuracy testing, I mean seriously isnt that what you are touting this firearm to outclass all others in?

For all the talking they have done they sure dont say very much.

Eta:  fingers crossed IWI beats them to the punch.

I was interested in the MDR, but they took too long and my money went to another rifle. It has vaporware written all over it so far.

Same here.  I was interested but moved on and bought other stuff after the delays started piling up.

Let's be honest about those comments...the ones that were banned went far beyond asking questions and requesting information, they were rude, combative, and exceptionally negative.  And it wasn't that they just posted once and then were done, most of them had track records of consistent negativity.  Just as DT was right to kick Ken from K&M off their threads for blatantly advertising his product on their page, I think they were right to remove what amounted to negative hecklers.

YMMV

I agree, the bitching and harassment was over the top and was getting old.

If I had been told I would be getting a rifle soon after putting up all that cash and a year latter I am still waiting I would not think being disgusted pissed ect ect and taking it out on the facebook page to let others know how crappy they have dealt with the situation THEY created should be grounds for being kicked and posts deleted.

But ya really its all ok we got your money no worries you will get your shit when you get your shit it will be soon really now keep cool next week ya really trust us again.

Speaking of which, isn't it about time for another "surprise and completely unexpected" shipping delay notification?

T- 10 days

Honestly they should have know if the rifle was close to shipping or not. Its poor business. They deserve all the negativity they get. Increased weight increased moa. Honestly even if its a decent rifle I really can't see why people are still trying to defend them. They screwed up pretty bad. If they admitted they did at this point I'd have more respect for them than trying to quell all negativity with pushing it under the rug.  They can delete all they want but people that even know about this rifle( don't kid yourself its not many) already know about this issue, deleting it makes them seem more guilty than leaving the negativity there. To me anyways.

I also don't think it will increase in value like someone thought.  People are lazy and impatient. They don't want a rifle with zero replacement parts and at this rate zero aftermarket. This thing has to come up against the ar15 that is everywhere and the well supported Tavor and the track record of the Aug.  All of which people can get right NOW and have had cameos in many many movies so they know what it is and want it. They lost their Moa crowd. people don't buy shit they don't see on tv. Unless its in John Wick 3 or a Fast and the Furious movie. It will get out paced by something else yet to be released shot show 2018.

ZoToL,

Where are you seeing that it's not MOA/Sub-MOA?  Everything that I've seen so far, including targets, suggests the exact opposite.

Did we actually see them shoot at those targets?  Anyone one of us can post a picture of a target with a pair of calipers showing group size,  but that doesn't provide any proof without some video.  

I hope that is how accurate it ends up being but lets not give them the benefit of the doubt because they havent earned that.

To be honest I think this might be where the problem lies. They have been tuning the rifle for sure but I firmly believe that the MDR probably isn't an MOA rifle right now and considering this played a large part in their early hyping they have probably been trying to do everything they can to fix that. At this point I think a warts and all approach would work better for their marketing campaign however.

Knowing the person who posted the picture, yes, I believe it.

The problem with that is the bias.

When the person who has the most to gain or lose is the only person disseminating the information, that's a problem. It's a problem until outside sources verify the sub moa claims on a randomly sampled gun - not a ringer.