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Posted: 3/21/2015 8:17:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Who didn't see this one coming?
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Posted: 3/21/2015 8:31:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Well ...... I guess I'm not surprised since there are so many good bull pups out there. LOTS of competition and i think there internet naysayers took their toll on MSAR reputation. I for one am an advocate of them - at least the ones I own......
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:13:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Crap. I guess I didn't think this day would ever come.
Is ratworx still the best place for repairs on these? And for parts? |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:20:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well ...... I guess I'm not surprised since there are so many good bull pups out there. LOTS of competition and i think there internet naysayers took their toll on MSAR reputation. I for one am an advocate of them - at least the ones I own...... I am not bashing the rifles, I thought they were cool. They were also quite expensive as well though and the company made themselves a "One Trick Pony" of sorts. I think what really killed them was the inevitable proliferation of really cheap AR parts. When it comes down to it a $2300 rifle that really can't easily be modified or suppressed easily is a failure looking for a place to happen in the tactical rifle market. Cool looks and all aside, they were just never able to be competitive or find a strong enough foothold in their niche market to survive long term. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:47:53 AM EDT
[#5]
It is kinda of hard to compete with an original vs a clone in a small market segment.
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Posted: 3/21/2015 10:21:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who didn't see this one coming? Cool idea, horrible QC in the execution. I'd love to see the design and rights sold to someone known for ripping off designs and making them better and cheaper....like Ruger  |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 11:32:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Glad I'm holding a Steyr now instead of the MSAR bag.
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Posted: 3/21/2015 11:46:14 AM EDT
[#8]
My MSAR has been 100% also.. I wonder if the used value will go up now
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Posted: 3/21/2015 11:57:24 AM EDT
[#9]
Too bad, but the owner did it to himself. They had awesome rifles, great CS that went above and beyond for people. They could have stayed at the top, but his moves took them to the bottom.
I bought my MSAR when AUG's were not readily available. It was the best gun I had ever owned. But they got rid of their top CS people and their QC went down at the same time. Poor QC and no CS to take care of the people with problems was their end. I sold my MSSAR and bought an AUG. I still think the MSAR was a nicer rifle 
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Posted: 3/21/2015 12:36:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too bad, but the owner did it to himself. They had awesome rifles, great CS that went above and beyond for people. They could have stayed at the top, but his moves took them to the bottom. I bought my MSAR when AUG's were not readily available. It was the best gun I had ever owned. But they got rid of their top CS people and their QC went down at the same time. Poor QC and no CS to take care of the people with problems was their end. I sold my MSSAR and bought an AUG. I still think the MSAR was a nicer rifle That is saying a lot. I have never owned an original but for the various rifles I have I keep going back to my MSAR's..... |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not bashing the rifles, I thought they were cool. They were also quite expensive as well though and the company made themselves a "One Trick Pony" of sorts. I think what really killed them was the inevitable proliferation of really cheap AR parts. When it comes down to it a $2300 rifle that really can't easily be modified or suppressed easily is a failure looking for a place to happen in the tactical rifle market. Cool looks and all aside, they were just never able to be competitive or find a strong enough foothold in their niche market to survive long term. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well ...... I guess I'm not surprised since there are so many good bull pups out there. LOTS of competition and i think there internet naysayers took their toll on MSAR reputation. I for one am an advocate of them - at least the ones I own...... I am not bashing the rifles, I thought they were cool. They were also quite expensive as well though and the company made themselves a "One Trick Pony" of sorts. I think what really killed them was the inevitable proliferation of really cheap AR parts. When it comes down to it a $2300 rifle that really can't easily be modified or suppressed easily is a failure looking for a place to happen in the tactical rifle market. Cool looks and all aside, they were just never able to be competitive or find a strong enough foothold in their niche market to survive long term. No, what killed them was exceptionally poor QC, broken promises, and crapping on their customers that had defective items (optics, magazines, trunions, and rifles that just plain couldn't be made to work) and trying to ignore the problems until they were either forgotten about or the customers just gave up. Then, when they returned to production, they offered a rifle that had all the quirks of the last couple thousand they made *and* came with a stock that wasn't even finished. They weren't killed by anything other than their own ineptitude. I'd say RIP, but all I can muster is good riddance, now the shooting community won't have to deal with their excuses and crap anymore. Yeah...I'm still bitter. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 4:44:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too bad, but the owner did it to himself. They had awesome rifles, great CS that went above and beyond for people. They could have stayed at the top, but his moves took them to the bottom. I bought my MSAR when AUG's were not readily available. It was the best gun I had ever owned. But they got rid of their top CS people and their QC went down at the same time. Poor QC and no CS to take care of the people with problems was their end. I sold my MSSAR and bought an AUG. I still think the MSAR was a nicer rifle Let's refine this a bit Beerswimmer...they had great CS what Dave was running the desk. He did what he could to smooth out the boils on the pig, but near the end even he couldn't compensate for the management's lack of respect for the customer. |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 7:13:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...I'm still bitter. Really can't blame ya. Still have my STG/E4 and have been thinking of selling it off for the past year or so. Been moving back into my AR's and feeling the love all over again. Haven't shot the E4 in a long time. I was very sad to have got the Email from MSAR this morning but I had a feeling that it was coming one day. Lots of stuff never came to market that they were talking about (300Blk for one). |
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:11:49 PM EDT
[#14]
I am SO glad I never purchased one. I almost bought one of the first gen MSAR "special edition" rifles, but picked up a USR instead once I learned the MSAR wasn't compatible with AUG parts. I still have the USR.
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Posted: 3/21/2015 9:13:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Add to the QC problems, Styer USA releasing the A3 didn't help. Why buy a potentially problem clone when you can get a factory gun?
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Posted: 3/22/2015 12:27:14 AM EDT
[#16]
I have the Steyr Aug A3 and a MSAR STG 556 Gen IV both are great rifles
I actually prefer the MSAR over the Aug but as noted the poor management , poor quality control , ruined there reputation MSAR states they realize there customer is there lifeblood yet they have time and time again let there customers down and finally there closing shop for good. The STG 556 is a fine rifle if you didn't get a problem gun and mine has been flawless don't let the nay Sayers dissuade you from buying one if you have always wanted one. * I will say avoid early models* Now if you want product support , great Customer service get a Steyr Aug if you want unlimited parts for the foreseeable future get a AR
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Posted: 3/22/2015 2:59:16 AM EDT
[#17]
With the real thing available now I'm not surprised, I like the STG but either way all it will ever be is a knockoff
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Posted: 3/22/2015 8:46:09 AM EDT
[#18]
A "knockoff" that even some guys who own AUG's prefer. Hell - even Steyr had to up their game after MicroTech had sold in the ten-thousands rifles.......
Too bad the owner couldn't figure out that customers truly WERE his lifeblood. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 8:56:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A "knockoff" that even some guys who own AUG's prefer. Hell - even Steyr had to up their game after MicroTech had sold in the ten-thousands rifles....... Too bad the owner couldn't figure out that customers truly WERE his lifeblood. Who prefers an MSAR over an actual Steyr? |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 9:03:47 AM EDT
[#20]
What made an MSAR better than an AUG?
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Posted: 3/22/2015 9:36:16 AM EDT
[#21]
News to me as I thought they died years ago.
Have always been afraid to touch one of their rifles. Have to admit, the 9mm that took Glock mags made me tingly. If it had come out and worked, I think it would have been a seller. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 1:45:24 PM EDT
[#22]
I have very limited experience but the MSAR is lighter and from the examples I have tried the MSAR trigger is better.
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Posted: 3/22/2015 2:53:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's refine this a bit Beerswimmer...they had great CS what Dave was running the desk. He did what he could to smooth out the boils on the pig, but near the end even he couldn't compensate for the management's lack of respect for the customer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too bad, but the owner did it to himself. They had awesome rifles, great CS that went above and beyond for people. They could have stayed at the top, but his moves took them to the bottom. I bought my MSAR when AUG's were not readily available. It was the best gun I had ever owned. But they got rid of their top CS people and their QC went down at the same time. Poor QC and no CS to take care of the people with problems was their end. I sold my MSSAR and bought an AUG. I still think the MSAR was a nicer rifle Let's refine this a bit Beerswimmer...they had great CS what Dave was running the desk. He did what he could to smooth out the boils on the pig, but near the end even he couldn't compensate for the management's lack of respect for the customer. Yep. Dave was a HUGE reason that MSAR was doing well. He took care of you and then some. I had a piece break, it didn't affect function, he sent me a new part plus about $300 worth of extra parts  But the QC was going down hill fast, and when Dave was gone there was no soothing the upset customers.
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Posted: 3/22/2015 2:56:12 PM EDT
[#24]
my gun from them never ran more than a full mag
without some sort of problem. sent it back 3 times, it finally ran. i sold it off with peace of mind it was finally right. im glad they got it running,but it was a huge pita dealing with them. good riddance. i own an AUG A3 CQC nato, now and couldnt be happier. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 2:58:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 6:03:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. That does it. I'm keeping my Msar, extra stock and mags regardless of whether or not I get a parts kit. Thanks Beerswimmer! |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 7:07:39 PM EDT
[#27]
I have two MSAR STG556 bullpups. No problems with either one of them. They do everything I need for several hundred dollars less than an
Aug. |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 8:26:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr 
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Posted: 3/23/2015 2:46:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr I agree - JWTF ?
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:05:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr On the nicer manufacturing than a Steyr, what elements do you note that support that? I'm not asking as a challenge. I've never seen or handled an MSAR in person and am just curious. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:16:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Is this the third or fourth time they've closed their doors? It's totally for real this time, we swear!
No tears shed. They still owe me for the XM30 magazine fiasco. Shoddy business practices turn into shoddy results. At least my TPD can use Steyr parts! |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:35:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who didn't see this one coming? Hardly a surprise. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:39:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My MSAR has been 100% also.. I wonder if the used value will go up now
Mine has been 100%. I was lucky. I have enjoyed it as a gun. It wasn't the guns that sank the company. It was the retarded management. And the fact that they haven't done shit in almost three years. They burst onto the scene, their offering evolved rapidly, and then they just stopped. Supposedly they've produced guns within the past year, but I sure haven't seen it. And I haven't seen anything new from them, or innovative in order to keep them competitive as Steyr got back into the game, and IMI entered the market with the Tavor. It's too bad. They could have had a good thing going. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:46:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? For one thing, I appreciated the fluted barrel on my E4. It handles and balances better than my Aug A3. I also think that the E4 stock was a superior offering to the NATO stock. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:48:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have to admit, the 9mm that took Glock mags made me tingly. If it had come out and worked, I think it would have been a seller. I'm still bummed that this never saw market.  That was a beautiful concept. Then I think they started biting off more than they could chew with bottom ejection, etc. I've been hopeful that at some point Ratworx would pick up the torch, but I'm not sure I ever see it happening.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:53:31 AM EDT
[#36]
I've got 2 MSAR's, a 16" & 20". Both have been 100%. If the 9mm had come out I bet it would have been better than the Tavor in 9mm that I have. The ergonomics of the AUG type is a much better fit for me.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 11:59:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got 2 MSAR's, a 16" & 20". Both have been 100%. If the 9mm had come out I bet it would have been better than the Tavor in 9mm that I have. The ergonomics of the AUG type is a much better fit for me. Especially as a dedicated design, without the extra weight and bulk of a 5.56 conversion. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 12:09:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Especially as a dedicated design, without the extra weight and bulk of a 5.56 conversion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've got 2 MSAR's, a 16" & 20". Both have been 100%. If the 9mm had come out I bet it would have been better than the Tavor in 9mm that I have. The ergonomics of the AUG type is a much better fit for me. Especially as a dedicated design, without the extra weight and bulk of a 5.56 conversion. As a Tavor owner and lover, I completely agree. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 12:51:57 PM EDT
[#39]
I have two of them. Sad to see them go. I think it was more a management issue than product. They turned out a few bad rifles and failed to control the backlash.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 3:11:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Not really shocking news but I hope someone buys the tooling amd designs and brings the pistol and PCC along with the regular models back into production with good QC and CS.
 I lucked out with mine. Got it when Ratworx was running a sale. I had a sling stud get stuck in the stock and Dave sent me a new stock and spare parts. I even got my stocks fixed with the updated mag catches before they closed up the first time. Oh well... that's the way life works. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 3:52:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really shocking news but I hope someone buys the tooling amd designs and brings the pistol and PCC along with the regular models back into production with good QC and CS. http://i.imgur.com/ZUgRtI0.jpg I lucked out with mine. Got it when Ratworx was running a sale. I had a sling stud get stuck in the stock and Dave sent me a new stock and spare parts. I even got my stocks fixed with the updated mag catches before they closed up the first time. Oh well... that's the way life works. If someone does, I hope that they are smart enough to have full compatibility with the Aug, especially on things like barrels. IMO, that was one of the things that held the MSAR back. Opening it up to the full aftermarket potential of the original, as well as becoming a source of aftermarket for the original would have increased the desirability of both the rifle and the components. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 6:13:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the nicer manufacturing than a Steyr, what elements do you note that support that? I'm not asking as a challenge. I've never seen or handled an MSAR in person and am just curious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What made an MSAR better than an AUG? To me, nicer manufacturing. Fluted barrels, places for rails, rails to go in those places, the stock was nicer to me, different length barrels, special editions came out every now and then, actually trying to innovative with the platform, etc. Steyr wasn't really selling in the US at the time and were pretty plain Jane. My new M1's stock is terrible compared to my old MSAR. MSAR had nicer manufacturing than Steyr On the nicer manufacturing than a Steyr, what elements do you note that support that? I'm not asking as a challenge. I've never seen or handled an MSAR in person and am just curious. Look at the pic that Miami_JBT posted. You can see the stock has texture in the places where you need it, plus QR holes, plus spots for attaching rails, nicer safety button. Good texture on the charging handle, the bolt release was lower profile than the Steyr one that makes me think I could break it off on accident. Also you can see the fluted barrel and nice flash hider and nut. The metal on the MSAR is finished nicer too. Just overall better little touches to the fit/finish. My new Steyr makes my old MSAR seem like a custom upgrade 
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:20:19 PM EDT
[#43]
I got a great rifle also. I wonder how they are going to bundle their spare parts? I would really like an extra E4 stock and a few critical small parts.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:21:41 PM EDT
[#44]
I guess I always assumed(but you know what they say about that)that Ratworx would be the obvious choice, and that they would just wait for the pieces to fall, send out the little old men with the push brooms and wheeled trash cans(just like the cartoons I remember)clean it up and restart it with flying colors.
Oh well. I will go to bed with that thought. |
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:22:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Part of the reason that msar was finished better is that the AUG design was being sold to militaries, while the stg was being sold to individuals. They did things like the fluting, etc, to try to catch the eye of buyers. Steyr on the other hand, never really seemed interested in selling to mere civilians. At least not the AUG. Just like WW2 Germany however, they had an idiot at the helm who would not let his people do what needed to be done, and tried to micromanage everything to make more money. In his mind i guess it worked.
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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:34:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Part of the reason that msar was finished better is that the AUG design was being sold to militaries, while the stg was being sold to individuals. They did things like the fluting, etc, to try to catch the eye of buyers. Steyr on the other hand, never really seemed interested in selling to mere civilians. At least not the AUG. Just like WW2 Germany however, they had an idiot at the helm who would not let his people do what needed to be done, and tried to micromanage everything to make more money. In his mind i guess it worked. Thank God for that.... As far as the history of MSAR and their departure = No significant loss.... |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 9:42:51 AM EDT
[#47]
We have a whole bunch of parts that have accumulated over time from doing repairs, guns we've torn apart, and other pieces we've accumulated.
We'll be making these available for purchase as soon as we can! |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:21:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I always assumed(but you know what they say about that)that Ratworx would be the obvious choice, and that they would just wait for the pieces to fall, send out the little old men with the push brooms and wheeled trash cans(just like the cartoons I remember)clean it up and restart it with flying colors. Oh well. I will go to bed with that thought. I was hoping for Ratworx to take over also, they did everything the could to keep that boat afloat way back when. Way back when Ratworx bought up MSAR's inventory put the guns on sale at a good price about half of the Aug if you could find one. With superior customer sales & service, taking care of MSAR's hiccups (possibly getting hosed by MSAR in the long run on the stuff they warrantied just a guess), made parts to replace the weak ones that MSAR dropped the ball on in manufacture quality outside vendors or not.... Not so sure it was design flaws. Dave was the CS guy at MSAR doing everything in power to make things right. I had hope. I jumped on the hope train and purchased, had a few small issues got them resolved with Ratworx smooth as silk and one with MSAR required much more effort but got it handled. Knock on wood mine has been pretty good to date and is grandfathered in as a MI. pistol so I will run it until done. Then came the moving back and forth from down south, nonpayment to venders, the mag disaster, running off all the good help and the cockblocks by the owner to right anything. Doomed, in my eyes he had it all and pissed it away for what ever reasons that went on in his head I will never understand, I think a really good opportunity for an American made product to be great got pissed away, a real crying shame. 
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Posted: 3/24/2015 11:08:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My MSAR has been 100% also.. I wonder if the used value will go up now
No way will it go up in value. MSAR has a pretty lousy reputation, that will kill any resale on their guns. To be honest, I would be surprised if a person could even get what they paid for their MSAR is they resell it. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 12:04:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No way will it go up in value. MSAR has a pretty lousy reputation, that will kill any resale on their guns. To be honest, I would be surprised if a person could even get what they paid for their MSAR is they resell it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My MSAR has been 100% also.. I wonder if the used value will go up now No way will it go up in value. MSAR has a pretty lousy reputation, that will kill any resale on their guns. To be honest, I would be surprised if a person could even get what they paid for their MSAR is they resell it. Right around the 2016 Presidential Election. |
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