ARs are cheap, reliable and parts are plentiful if they do break.   Tavors, well, not so much...

Tavor's are reliable, and the few pieces one could consider "breakage prone" you can currently buy replacements for. You don't see a glut of AK replacement parts either, because...the parts aren't as breakage prone. This is the same case as the Tavor.

Yes.

I think the tavor has staying power that others do not.

I bought a Tavor just last week and took it to the range, I can see that the technique used for ARs is not meant to be used with this bull pup.

It will take some practice to re-learn the new platform but IMHO I think in short time, Tavor sales will outpace ARs.  

With the right optics, the Tavor is excellent for CQB, as has been proven by

the IDF over many years of field use.  It's long range ability has also been shown to be more than adequate.  

From some articles I have read, the bullet weight selected will determine the accuracy (long distance)  and affect the moa. It seems the Tavor likes the heavier weights.

To me, the benefits of the tavor outweigh the one or two things people are pointing out comparatively to a similarly priced AR.  

Some observations to consider:

1 - Mag changes on the tav are ~90% as fast as with an AR once you've practiced and trained.   If they are not, it's because of YOU, not the gun's design.  

2 - Side by side on a left shoulder mag change, the tavor wins.   Probably by a noticeable margin since the technique is the same on both sides with the tav, and not so with the AR.

3 - People compare the length of the tavor vs. the AR with the AR's stock completely folded, even though they don't shoot it that way.  The tavor has no stock to extend and no buffer tube to bend or dent if you drop it.

4 - To me, the tavor is FAR easier and simpler to clean.  

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It does take a few bucks to get one ship shape, but so does an AR.   With a tav, you need a trigger and a light, and you're up to speed.  

I'm not getting rid of any AR's but the tavor so far is a legitimate contender.  

To me the Tavor is worthy to be a go-to gun.  
-Weight difference (AR-Tavor and others) will only be an impact but to a very few, if any. With mag a basic 6920 AR with rear flip sight weighs around 7.8, 8.8 for the Tavor.  That's 1 lb., or one mag weight difference.  After a 20 mile hump, both weapons are going to feel heavy.  It's tough for any gun to be as light as the AR unless you are looking at a DI system.  All piston guns will weigh more.  If we are talking 3 or 5 lb difference, then we are talking.
-Compact length.  This is where BP gun shines of course.  I was lucky enough to get on with an agency that issued AUGs, at least for the final 4 months before I had to turn it in for an M4.  The ability to have a "long gun" available, and only calling it a "long gun" to define it by capability only is something. That size makes it concealable,  Not to mention accessible to use from a vehicle and any other confined space.  If a compact rifle/carbine wasn't an important factor with mil and LE, then why did the M16 went to the M4, and now giving way to the Mk18.  In addition, bullpups have become a go to gun for many top ranked military.
-Mag compatibility.  Absolute no brainer.  
-Reliability and proven track record.  A rifle designed in a country involved in never ending combat engagement.  A place where it's people depend on their ingenuity, self reliance, resources, and hard core determination.
The AR is a reliable weapon with an outstanding track record.  For most of us, a go to gun won't be out in the boonies and humping it.  AT least not as much as before.  A go to gun will be a gun carried in a vehicle, ATV, MC, kept at quarters or camp, or in a building.  The Tavor trigger suck.  It's intentionally meant to be a heavy trigger.  AT the moment quality triggers are very available and quite good.  SO there is a solution.  But for it's intended use as a combat weapon, the trigger is more than acceptable.
Picking a go to gun can come to splitting hairs.  Transitioning to a gun that has a different dexterity of arms than that from the AR will require training and quite a few rounds down range.  Tavor, AUG, AK, SCAR, ARX if you are going to another platform don't half ass your training.
To me, for now my issued M4 has to be my go to.  My Tavor will definitely step in with out any problems.  The Tavor is definitely not meant to be a toy or safe queen.  It comes shipped ready for combat. Same can be said of all combat rifles made at the same factories who ship to mil and LE. If it was just me, I'd have no problem making the Tavor a go to gun for any agency or unit.


 

Love my Tavor but at this point I couldn't consider it my "go to".  With about 25 ARs and 1 Tavor, I'd have to have a couple more Tavors and a lot of spare parts to convert to it serving that role. Not that it isn't worthy. I'm just used to the AR and the ergos are intuitive. I can strip it blind folded and have a lifetime supply of parts for myself and children's children. At this point it's still the AR but who knows down the road.

I don't think that will ever happen, especially not in the US. It is doing very well though, for a number of reasons:

- It is built with quality. This can't be said for many of the other US versions of other rifles, which often have cut corners.

- It is pricey, but not too much.

- It is the first "good" bullpup to be released in large numbers so it has that appeal to it.

- It is a quality 5.56 rifle that isn't over $2,000. Most the other rifles are either rebuilds, cut corners, clones or cost a good bit more. This is built by IWI.


It will never be a popular as the AR here, but it made a market for itself. Most people will get an AR or two first, but the Tavor will be the next in line for many. I think other rifles can do similar if they are priced right and built with quality. I see the Galil ACE doing well if they bring it in for $1200-1400.

IWI alone is a big plus.  Tried and trued in the battlefield, both urban and non.
I own some high end ARs, yet for my immediate go to gun, the Travor with a 16 1/8 inch barrel is by far my first choice. That's just me.

....and ARs.  Im sorry, how does any of what you posted counter what he posted?

I wasn't countering it. I was pointing out that Tavor parts are less breakage prone, the gun itself is reliable, and you CAN easily obtain spares. I own half a dozen AR's.. i'm not knocking them. But his statement wasn't really accurate.

My Tavor, completely stock save a mod I did to route a pressure switch behind the built in hand guard button, is my go to rifle.

I have a few ARs and an AK, the Tavor is easily better than all of them!

Well, you're an armchair expert.  Get off this topic, ya fat slob.  Eat more veggies and less pizza, dude.

Ran the hell outa my Tavors... Ended up buying them for my wife, my two girls, and my son...we are six Tavors deep right now in our family... I have ran it hard in rain and snow... 110 to -40... Muddy and wet... Suppressed and none suppressed... It has been a fantastic weapon.. I have had a few hiccups but they cleared easily and the gun was back up and running... They are short and balanced... I really can't say anything bad about the platform... But then again that is just my experiences.. But I will add a +1 to the go to rifle side of this debate..

triggers are still a big miss compared to ARs, at least in regards to cost.

I'm surprised how popular they have become, I am still partial to Augs myself.

But Tavors are your lowest cost bullpup.   Takes AR magazines.  And many American gun owners have a serious man crush on the Israeli military, which is mostly built on a legacy from 40 years ago.  Nowadays, I am not sure they are that special anymore..  Above average for sure, but no longer godlike...

I sense butt-hurt.

Not so much. I just don't think finger fucking a gun for ten seconds gives you a relevant opinion on it. This isn't in reference to th Tavor in particular, but pretty much any gun.

Sputnik,
  As a buddy of yours you can come shoot mine whenever you want. Seriously. I think you and I have pretty similar tastes in firearms and I love mine, it's the only rifle i take with me everywhere I go these days.

After training with my Tavor for 3,500 rounds; my Tavor (stock with no upgrades) has replaced my AK (5.45X39) as my go to rifle.

While I don't disagree, my comment was intended to be more of a "from my limited experience I'm not sure it's for me." type thing.





I really appreciate that, I'll take you up on it if I'm ever out your way

In the year since Ive got my Tavor my AR has less than 1k rounds through it. My AK has less than 500 through it. My 5.56 Tavor barrel probably has 2k through it and my 9mm conversion kit has another 3k. Hands down my "Go To Rifle"

Here's a video for everyone who thinks the AR is faster at changing mags than a Tavor ...

Tavor vs AR Mag Change

While i agree with the premise of the video and that the Tavor can be reloaded very quickly (the guy in the video is amazing), it isn't helped by the fact that the guy with the AR can't seem to find his weapon's mag well. To their point if you train with it though i'm sure you can reload a Tavor as fast as an AR it just takes practice and different muscle memory.

Just ordered one today.  I have some shoulder issues this small package may help with.

I have a problem extending my weak side arm.

They are great rifles you won't regret it

love mine...

Working on a second....

The AUG in the safe is jealous, since she does not get out to play

Agreed ...

I own several Ar in 223 and 308.The Tavor is quickly becoming my go to gun.

I spent over 3 years in the active duty USMC as a
rifleman in the infantry.  My primary weapon was an M16A4 which
I carried, trained with constantly, and deployed with,
and I developed smooth magazine changes and operation
of my tavor within a week of rehearsals.

It's not very difficult to learn a new weapon system.

Infantrymen already train on several platforms.
Reloading a M249 or M240G is very different from an M16,
and infantry guys can operate all of those, plus numerous
other weapons.

The total cost after the trigger upgrades and almost necessary optic is what holds me back. They do seem to be the lowest cost BP rifle initially OTB... but with the trigger upgrade, it is still going to run $2k+ to run with just the BUIS.

I am not at all under the influence of a mancrush with the IDF. I have worked with them.. they are much better trained and equipped than the half-assed (but dedicated) rabble they fight against. Not hard to look like warrior gods with that competition (look at what we did to them). But I still very much want a Tavor.

I do love my Tavor, however it's not going to replace any other rifle. It's an addition. Plain and simple. I love all my guns for different reasons. Variety is the spice of life.

^ This.  
I don't own, but have shot a Tavor numerous times now.  I'm quite sure the 'IDF worship' has played a not-insignificant role in it's popularity, but I'll take my AUG every day.
I finally got to shoot a Tavor w/Gisselle trigger in it back to back with my AUG with HTM, which was interesting - to me, the out of box AUG trigger beats the Tavor's out of box, the $100 2020 TSM AUG mod is 'different' but nice, and I liked the AUG w/HTM over the Tavor Giselle trigger - too bad the HTM is limited availability (latest incarnation coming from Steyr is using A1/A2 trigger packs, removing the bolt release functionality - lame, but I'll eventually swap the guys into my A3 pack..).

Having said that, it's a pretty solid rifle.  I certainly prefer the rail placement/options on the Tavor (I run a minimal setup, optic + light only, but would prefer to have the light closer to inline with the barrel) and the built-in QD cups.
I'd probably take a Tavor over a typical AR as a 'go to' if I didn't have the AUG, however.

I'm also waiting on the MDR to see what happens there.  My AUG already means I have little use for an AR, and the MDR is the only firearm I see potentially giving the AUG some 'rest' in the safe..although they keep pushing back delivery dates, so - we'll see.

This is how I feel. But I am comfortable enough that I am giving my son a 16" AR and breaking the 2 is one rule.

 

In The United States - nothing can beat the AR

One word: modularity ..,

..and literally hundreds of venues to buy parts from.

I honestly don't understand people's constant complaint about the Tavor trigger.  If you've ever shot anything other than SA revolvers and 1911s, the trigger isn't bad, and dropping a precision match trigger into a non-free-floated bullpup rifle designed for CQB seems to be missing the point.

 

Plop the same optic on top that you would an AR, and get out and shoot, and the trigger becomes a non-issue.

I agree the trigger is different but not bad. It is an infantry weapon.....

In the military I trained ALOT with an Mp5 - that was an unforgiving, horrible trigger...

Because a +10 lb trigger on a rifle or carbine is a total joke.
A single action revolver or 1911 has a better trigger than a stock factory Tavor.

Also the Shootingsight / Geissele trigger is not  "dropping a precision match trigger" into a Tavor. Its simply replacing an excessively heavy trigger in a modern rifle with a two stage trigger at a lower weight.
The same trigger layout as the M1 or M14 used decades ago. Its not a match trigger but one you can control the trigger break / release for better trigger control.

Timney makes the only single stage aftermarket trigger if a shooter prefers a single stage option.
Any of them are FAR better than the stock trigger IMHO.

The number of bullpup threads seemed to have diminished along with the economy.