@ZA206 , where can I get some of these targets please?

300yds, correct? I think your calculator is still set to 100.

300yds, yes... didn't see where to change that setting

Edit, found it, under the settings icon... was to default of "Remington 700", ".308 bullet", and "100yds"... I changed it to AR15, .224, 300yds. Uploading pics in a sec...

Corrected for gun/bullet size/distance of 300:

Obviously super happy being sub-moa at that distance, but I sure am puzzled by the 2" difference in the vertical position of the groups. I don't see the chamber temp from the first few rounds causing that much difference in velocity?

Edit - just noting the group shifted about 2" right also. I did not know where I was hitting until I walked downrange. Just aimed for the bull every shot. Barrel was not cold, I'd say warm from previous firing but not hot. My Mosin used to walk up and right on me during extended firing... wonder if this is the same phenomena.

I had sone strange results last shooting session with these bullets over TAC loads

Attached File


Attached File


Attached File


Attached File


Looking back at my last data post, also using TAC, it seems that TAC just overall shot worse on this range trip.

My barrel and gun was very filthy for this trip, so maybe this is the proverbial “clean your rifle when accuracy drops off” that is often mentioned

I have more RMR bullets that arrived, so I’m going to give TAC one more go.

I doubt a Shilen will walk that much. I'm betting Natural Point of Aim and a hint of wind letoff.

Looking again, the way the paper is hung could have a little to do with it. My buddy hung that one with the thumbtacks while I was fixing steel and hanging paper at 200. I usually try to flatten the paper out more, and use tape. There wasn't any wind really, little breeze once in a while at the firing point, and honestly wasn't looking for it down range. The target backers were solid.

Odds are it was just you. Different grip on the rifle, different stock position in your shoulder, recoil managed differently, or head position a bit different leading to some parallax error. Small differences in how the shots were taken do show up on target. This is usually the answer when two groups shot at different times are both good ones, but shifted in their overall point of impact.

However, since these are only 5 and 4 shot groups, in the back of your mind you should consider that maybe the overall load is not actually sub-MOA but rather larger than that, and you just happened to get a few shots low and a few shots high. 4 and 5 shot groups are useful in load workups but in the end if you can't make it shoot good 10 or 20 shot groups, it's not a good load.

Also, you may wish to use mean radius instead of absolute group size when evaluating groups with larger numbers of shots in them.

Thanks for posting your results!

I am 100% sure you will test your loads before I even load my RMR bullets, so I am eager to see your results. If they are good, I may have to get more match as I only have enough to load the 2k Hornady 75gr I have.

I made them myself. If you have access to an 11x17 printer, you can print them yourself.

I have two versions a small one and a little larger format one (just made it up).

DM me your email address.

ZA

Thank you, IM sent.

I loaded up 50 rounds with 23.3 grains of 8208 powder and shot a match at 300 yards. The bullets fly just as well as the Sierras.

COAL was 2.245"

Anybody gel test these?

I have 500 bullets and have some Ramshot TAC on the way. Any suggestions on where I should start. I will be shooting them out of a 18" AR barrel with a 1-8 twist.

Thanks.

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

TAC loads are listed for .223 and 5.56 for 69 gr SMKs.  I used these loads as starting points for the RMR 69 gr bullets and TAC.

24.0 TAC with a magnum or “military” primer

I wrote about it at https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/Rocky-Mountain-Reloading-69-grain-chronograph-testing/10-11724/

Got some data from a 12" barrel yesterday, unfortunately the accuracy was less than stellar.  With the best 10 shot groups coming in around 2".  I might play with these a bit more in some longer barrels, but I haven't had great success with heavy for caliber rounds in my 12" AR, that said the 62gr Hdy BTHPs from midsouth shoot right at MOA so I know the gun is capable.  


69gr RMR 8208XBR CCI450 (12" Barrel)

LOAD WEIGHT   VELOCITY   S.DEV   ES
23.4                  2389         15.3        44
23.7                  2436          18.3       58
24.0                  2469         13.3        36
24.3                  2505         16.8        52
24.6                  2558         11.2        36


69gr RMR TAC CCI450 (12" Barrel)

LOAD WEIGHT  VELOCITY  S.DEV     ES
23.4                  2334        21.3        70
23.7                  2381        19.7        62
24.0                  Didn't Trigger Labradar
24.3                  2462        31.6        91
24.6                  2503        15.7        42

Best accuracy came at 24.3gr of TAC with the absurdly high ES/SD.  I might try one more time to push TAC a bit harder, maybe step it up another 1/2 grain


-Mike

Not trying to hijack this thread but I'd be interested to know more about your load for the Hornady 62gr BTHP's

@tronco15

We don't hijack threads in this forum. Just because you say you aren't trying doesn't mean you didn't.

So please in the future you have two choices.

1) Send OP an IM, ask your question.

2) Or start your own thread asking  "saw in the 69 gr RMR thread and wanted to ask about 62 gr bullets". Or something like that.

And ask your question.

Remember folks are clicking on this thread expecting discussion on 69 gr RMR bullets, not other bullets.

Thanks, dryflash3

@Tronco15

I just used this load last weekend to verify the labradar setup (pictured below).  I was also able to shoot it our to 400 yds and it did pretty well, I have access to 600yd range and am looking for a windy day to see how badly it pushes around the 62gr bullet.  

I am within the 556 range from western powder, but it is easy to get pressure signs near the top of their data so be careful. I load 25.8gr of TAC at 2.250 in LC brass.  I have gone up to 26.2 (2711fps) without pressure signs, but accuracy was diminished.  I found another accurate load during work up at 24.4gr (2471fps) but velocity wasn't what I was looking for and SD was pretty bad at 36.2.



on larger groups I have seen SDs for the 25.8gr TAC load closer to 10... not great, but good enough for me for a plinking load.

the bullets are available at Midsouth right now for .13/per.  I think they are an exclusive because I have never seen them anywhere else

LINK

-Mike

@mjmjr1312 Thanks!

I bought a 1000 of them a couple of weeks ago and really appreciate you sharing this info

I shoot 24.0 grains TAC with the 62 Hornady FMJ.

Gives about 2800 fps from a 20" barrel.

Been very interested in this thread.  Time to contribute.  I tried using WC844 and Alliant Power Pro Varmint to get some good results out of this bullet with a goal of 2750 out of a 16" barrel.  So far, not great.  It seems the closer I get to my target velocity the farther I get from the accuracy potential.  My distance is about 100yd (97.3 or something when lasered).  

I am not a PRS shooter, I don't own a Winchester model 70, I've never bedded a stock, but this barrel can stack 55gr handloads routinely into a 0.4" group at the same distance.  I have plans to retest using a wylde 1:8 chamber.  I have photographs and all that but too lazy with photobucket being the way it is now and everything else kind of sucks.  Feel free to email me or respond here if you want some more info.

Plans 25gr 25.1, 25.3 of APPV.  My overdeveloped handload shoots amazing at a 2.226 COAL....  I may try dropping the charge and smushing the projectile to match, they have a very similar profile to my favorite 55gr Hornady FMJBT on the ogive.

*BLAH BLAH BLAH WORK UP YOUR LOADS, ETC.  NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR MISTAKES AND ALL THAT

Here you go!

~~~~~Alliant Power Pro Varmint~~~~~

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
23.3gr
2.25" COAL
2501 2464 2530
Ejects at 4 o'clock
1.2"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
23.6gr
2.25" COAL
2510 2540 2568
Ejects at 4 o'clock
1.2"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
23.9gr
2.25" COAL
2549 2550 2540
Ejects at 4 o'clock
4" this is not a typo.  For some reason this just WOULD NOT GROUP.

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
24.1gr
2.25" COAL
2549 2560 2530
Ejects at 4 o'clock
0.4" MOA


69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
24.3gr
2.25" COAL
2601 2595 2583
Ejects at 4 o'clock
1.2"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
24.5gr
2.25" COAL
2601 2599 2594
Ejects at 3 o'clock
1"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
47*F 5mph wind sustained 20mph gusts full value right to left
Tula SR
24.9gr
2.25" COAL
2671 2705 2677
Ejects at 3 o'clock
3"

~~~~~~~~~WC844~~~~~~~~


69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
23gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2433
Group MASSIVE
Ejection 4 o'clock

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
23.3gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2482
Group 2"
Ejection 3 o'clock

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
23.5gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2510
Group 2"
Ejection 3 o'clock

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
23.7gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2525, 2510
Group 1.7"
Ejection 3 o'clock
(Great MG round, slow cyclic, accurate enough, cycles)

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
24gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2554
Group 2.2"
Ejection 2 o'clock

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
41*F (rain)
Tula SR Primer
24.2gr WC844
2.25 COAL
2564, 2583
Group 2.2"
Ejection 1 o' clock

Wow thanks for all the work

How much do we think the accuracy potential is hindered by the media that is stuck in the cavity of these bullets (as discussed on RMRs site).  

I know in mine there was a mix of media that stuck out and i easily removed and media that was wedged deep enough that although visible wasn’t easily removable.  Are those having good results removing this or leaving it as is?

-Mike

Media might lose you a couple Xs at 600 yards. That is to say not much concern.

More data.  Playing around with seating depth has led to some interesting results.  Not good results but interesting ones anyway.  In my experience, at least with my test barrel, it hasn't made one bit of difference on accuracy.  Just to make sure the barrel wasn't bad, or I was heat soaking it with the BRUTAL 3 shot groups with 2 minutes of pause between, I shot a my final group and immediately fired a 3-shot with 10 year old PMC bronze 55gr to produce a 1.2" group.  Pretty consistent with what I have experienced.  I may just have to rebarrel if more people get good results.  I think trying a different MFG's 69gr would probably be more economical for rule-out.

These bullets just defy all logic, when my SD is huge, I get tiny groups.  When my SD is small, the groups are enormous.  I know correlation does not equal causation but good lord this has been some annoying development.

Also I think I found the soft limit on Alliant Power Pro Varmint with 69gr...

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
25.1gr
2.25" COAL
2696 2723 2730
Ejects at 3 o'clock
1.5"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
25.3gr
2.25" COAL
2697 2737 2740
Ejects at 3 o'clock
4"
LIGHT PRIMER FLATTENING

Decreasing COAL below

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
23.5gr
2.239" COAL
2494 2506 2507
Ejects at 3 o'clock
1.5"
GASSY

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
23.9gr
2.222" COAL
2544 2554 2539
Ejects at 3 o'clock
2"
GASSY

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
24.1gr
2.222" COAL
2545 2554 2564
Ejects at 3 o'clock
3"
GASSY

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
24.3gr
2.222" COAL
2594 2601 2564
Ejects at 3 o'clock
1.8"
GASSY

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
24.6gr
2.222" COAL
2614 2640 2635
Ejects at 3 o'clock
2" vertical string

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Spike's CHF lightweight
48*F Cloudy
Tula SR
24.8gr
2.222" COAL
2732 2694 2650
Ejects at 3 o'clock
1.1" 5 shot group *BEST SO FAR FOR CONSISTENCY
(Had a nearly exact 1" group with this load and this barrel.  Obviously thought it was a fluke, so I fired my last 2, which punched in the center and just round the outside round the outside of the first 3-shot)

I tried to match head stamp as much as possible.  I'm going to chase the 24.8 grain load using virgin brass next on a variety of barrels.

I may have missed this, but has anyone shot this bullet into gel (or even water jugs).  I'm curious how it would compare with M193, at least as far as wound channel potential.

If I can get a 1.5" or better group without much effort, I'm going to load up a bunch over WC844 and Fiocchi primers.

I don't think anyone shot gel.

When you do post up your results.  My WC 844 was less than favorable.

Great success.  I've never seen a bullet more selective about barrels in my life.

Here you go.

Alliant Power Pro Varmint

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Larue Stealth
36*F Cloudy
Tula SR
23.9gr
2.25 COAL
NO VELOCITY TESTED
Ejects 3 o'clock
0.5"

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Larue Stealth
36*F Cloudy
Tula SR
24.8gr
2.222 COAL
2666 2672 2646
Ejects 3 o'clock
0.3" 3 shot group
1.5" 9 shot group, 7/9 shots landed in a 0.7" group

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 16" Larue Stealth
36*F Cloudy
Tula SR
25.3gr
2.25 COAL
2807 2789 2801
Ejects 2 o'clock
0.7"
LIGHT PRIMER FLATTENING

I shot some of the 24.8's in my 12.3 Hanson Barrel and my 12.5 Criterion CHF CL, which I am convinced is the absolute ragged edge of the accuracy of this bullet, and the hanson made a pitiful 4-5" group with an 8X vudu.  The Criterion Printed a respectable 1.2" with an ACOG....

One constant at least for the weather and conditions around me SO FAR is that mid 2600's have been acutely more accurate than other velocities.  I am convinced the 24.8 load is the final iteration of this particular combo.  I encourage everyone else to play with seating depth too, but as you can see from these new results it may or may not matter to you.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the last 4 pages, but what powder was this with? I'm very interested in replacing 69 SMK with these the next time I buy some projectiles.

I shot the 69RMR (88 rounds) in the highpower rifle match at my club yesterday. Only 8 shooters yesterday.

24.2 grains TAC.

All firing at 200 yards.

Was good enough for the high score overall. 755/800


Nothing to crow about with that score really. But I didn’t have a zero for that load in that rifle. $400 Leupold 1-4x scope tracks unreliably. Once I quit dicking with the knobs in slow fire prone, the point of impact was consistently in the 10-ring. Wilson barrel  has over 4000 rounds on it.

I’m still dealing with some mystery injury in my back/hip. Groups opened-up on the second string of rapid-fire sitting and rapid-fire prone. Hard to stay fixed in position for double-strings. Pain was a big distraction on second string in each rapid-fire position because it hurts to breathe.

That's my bad.  It makes sense in my data document.  Forgot to mention in the post.  It's alliant Power Pro Varmint.

Merry Christmas all.

New test, looking great out of a 12.5 dudes!

69gr RMR OTM
AR15 12.5" Criterion CHF CL 1:8
35*F Snowing
Tula SR
24.9gr Alliant Power Pro Varmint
2.222" COAL
2484 2532 2534 (mixed headstamp)
Ejects at 2 o'clock
1.6" 5 shot group (matching headstamp black hills NATO)
1.2" 3 shot group (matching headstamp black hills NATO)

I have a *very* low pressure load that I have done with the RMR 69gr.  It is 22.5gr of AR Comp in mixed brass with the bullet seated to 2.200" for a previous excessively tight chambered rifle.

Out of an 11.5" SBR this was the result.



I loaded a ton of this ammo on my 650 a few years ago and knowing how low powered it really is I use it to configure my adjustable gas blocks to ensure the rifle will run anything.  It is a pretty accurate load, even given the low velocities.  It can do about 1.5" groups out of a really nice barrel.

Here is a picture to compare the RMR 69 to Sierra Matchking 69 & 77, and Hornady 68 BTHP.
They are just a tiny bit longer than SMK 69, about .016 longer. The ranges below are from grabbing 3 random bullets and writing the min/max down:

From left to right, they are/measure length:
RMR 69, .901-.902"
SMK 69 .885-.887"
HDY 68 .986-.988"
SMK 77 .992-.996"

I loaded some with Varget and went to the range. One thing I did that I didn't see mentioned previously is using a pin, I pushed the corn cob in the tip down farther. I don't know if this accomplished anything but if nothing else, it showed me the depth of the HP on these, about .12-.13".

I found 24.7 and 25.9 grains shot well, and plan to do 10-shot groups of them next to narrow it down further.

LC 19 once-fired brass, trimmed to 1.754 since that's what my cheap trimmer does.
CCI 450 (SRM) primers
Varget grains listed below, the powder increase between loads isn't even for reasons listed:
24.1
24.7 (my 69 SMK load)
25.0 (where I could start feeling a little powder crunch when loading)
25.3 (sierra's accuracy load for 69 SMK)
25.9
New RMR 69 purchased this week seated 2.255" no-crimp.

Other loads shot at same time:
Control group, 77 SMK w/ 22.8 varget @ 2.255" since it shoots well in this rifle. Shot this first.
RMR 69 Foulers shot on the "F" target, these were rough measured charges 24-25gr with no accuracy goal in mind. Shot this 2nd. Then did the RMR loads.

Shot at 100Y with a rail-mounted bipod and rear sand bag on a concrete bench. Rifle is an unknown 18" barrel Franken-AR my Dad built 10-15 years ago that I don't know much about other than it's mine now. Barrel is ~8.25" twist by my cleaning-rod measurement. 4-12X40 Leupold VX Freedom set to 12x.


The targets are 8.5x11" sheets of paper with either 1/2" or 1/2 MOA grids on them except the SMK77 control target.
Targets have a 2" circle or square painted on them. I used 5-shot groups. After the control group and foulers, I shot the 5 RMR targets round-robin style. 55° out today with light wind, maybe 2mph.

Overall target board first, then 77 SMK control, then the RMR loads:









The rifle:

Shot a few of these today finally l, shot both rl15 and Tac and was pretty happy even with a 6x trijicon scope and reticle that in no way lends its self for shooting groups lol. My question though for guys shooting either of these powders what kind of velocity are you seeing?

5x shots of 24.0 gr rl15 averaged 2443fps and just under 1"
5shots of Tac 24.0gr averaged 2578fps and managed a 3/4" group but could be just luck because like I say the reticle is horrible for pinpoint accuracy.

im shooting these from my 16" super duty so I know I won't see amazing speed but does this seem way low to anyone else?

Those velocities for the 69 RMR with TAC are right on the money for what Quickload predicts for a 16" gun with 24.0 TAC.
That load is only 91% available loading density and, at 43,000 PSI  only makes about 66% of SAAMI max pressure for 5.56 (62,000 PSI).
A full case with that bullet makes 58,000 PSI according to Quickload, and would give a couple hundred feet per second more velocity.
Don't use shitty thin primers if you push it to higher pressures.

Man that's awesome thanks so much for looking that up so quick for me. I have a big chunk of cci military primers but not sure I want to go up into 556 pressure. They seem to shoot really well as is just seemed slow to me was all. Thanks again

26.3 grains TAC is 100% loading density with the 69RMR seated to 2.250"

You can probably use the shitty thin primers with a 24.0 grain load if your boltface and firing pin aren't already eroded.

I'm currently doing an impromptu bolt/firing-pin torture test with shitty thin primers. I've pierced hundreds on this bolt at this point. Boltface looks like the moon. I'm piercing thin primers with 24.2 grains, but I think the biggest issue now is the firing pin tip. The tip looks more like a milling-burr than a proper firing pin. And the firing pin hole in the boltface is wallowed like a Detroit pothole. I've got about 150 more rounds to go with the shitty thin primers before my supply of this load is exhausted.

By shitty thin primers, I'm speaking of CCI 400, Winchester Small Rifle Primer (non magnum) and Remington 6 1/2.
These all are 0.020" thickness primer cup.

Your CCI "military primers" (I assume 41's) are good. Thickness of 41's is 0.025" and should not pierce at 5.56 pressures unless you borrow my trash-bolt.

41's and 450's and BR's are all good for 5.56 at 0.025" thickness.

Yup sorry cci 41. I'm glad there's guys like you out there willing to test stuff like that lol. I think I will try a bit warmer everything looked great and groups seemed to shrink as I worked up so barring them opening up if they stay close to the same in the accuracy dept but gain a bit of speed I'll be happy as can be

Hadn't seen this thread in a while, but after a long break I've been working with these bullets again. For now I've settled on 25.6gr CFE223, 2.235" oal, and using Federal Match AR primers.

Shot some from the bench last weekend and had all three five shot groups of this load under 0.95", the best at 0.72" (calipers zeroed on a .224 bullet here, and aligned with hole edges despite a little optical illusion in the pic). Under 1" has been my goal and this will do it, so I'm happy.

Attached File

Thanks for posting this. What barrel did you use?

You may laugh, but its an old 16" middy PSA Freedom line (aka cheap) barrel from my 2nd AR It's always been a solid shooter across all my loads though.

If weather permits I'll shoot some more tomorrow with a couple 12.5s and an 18" Criterion barrel and see how they do.

Thanks!

The bullet never lies…

Has anyone recreated the 69 grain razor core with these bullets and tac. I have about 750 rounds of the razor core and 1000 of these bullets and a few pounds of tac. The razor core is my shtf ammo for one of my ar pistols, and it gets 2550 out of my 11.5 inch.

I looked at the one guys numbers above for the 12 inch, looks like he stopped at 24.6 and was around 2500. The book linked to above has tac and the smk max load at 25.4.

I would love to match the velocity, as the bullets seem to be close enough. I know the dope on the razor core out to 400 on the markings in my scope ( rt6 ) and it would be nice to have the same dope.

Quickload says a full case of TAC (26.3 grains) with a 69 makes 2518 fps out of an 11.5" barrel, with 57,686 PSI.

I don't recommend COMPRESSING ball powders. But if you did, and loaded 26.6 grains, Quickload says you'd be making 2552 fps and 59,924 PSI.

SAAMI max for 5.56 is 62,366 PSI.

Use a sturdy primer, and a case with a tight primer pocket, if you're tyring to make that kind of pressure.

Thanks very much, I would not push it that far. I am not surprised imi pushed it that far. 3 extra inches of drop at 400 yards and a muzzle of about 2500 for the purpose of this ammo would be close enough. So I guess my max will be 26 grains, but yes first I will work up to that, and hope my barrel is just a fast one. I have 1k of cci 450 set aside just for this.

Once I am done chasing my 6.5 creed load, I will be starting on this.