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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:16:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm itching to deer hunt with my 336 Texan this year and I have a bunch of Falcon Bullets 165 gr RNFP plain base bullets I want to develop a load with. However Falcon doesn't recommend shooting them at speeds over 1400 fps. Is this too low of a velocity to be effective on deer at 100-150 yds? Everything I read seems to be against it, but I know before jacketed bullets came out, they must've done something like this, right? Used to be done all of the time, if you are prudent and place your shots well, I don't see any reason not to. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:24:33 PM EDT
[#2]
I agree with the last post but:
If you powder coated those bullets you very likely could get another 500f/s out of them. Just something to consider. Motor |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 5:28:12 PM EDT
[#3]
"Is this too low of a velocity to be effective on deer at 100-150 yds"
Yes. That's only about 600 ft. lbs. at 50 yds. With all the time and money invested in a deer hunt, I'd hate to miss out on a nice buck over a few dollars worth of premium ammo. YMMV |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 5:47:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Oh !! I missed the 100-150 yard thing. That is a bit much.
I use a home cast 167gr at right around 2000fps and would consider even 100yards a stretch. The trajectory alone at 1400 fps would be a lot to deal with. Motor |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 5:59:43 PM EDT
[#5]
I've read in the Lyman cast bullet manual about certain cast bullet formulas being highly effective at expansion on game at certain distances. This involved some straightforward mixing and then some water quenching and gas checking. Also, doing the coating process would work, but learning a new hobby might get in the way of the hunt.
With a plain base like that and an unknown mix that doesn't like the necessary higher velocities, I wouldn't want to risk a wounded animal. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 6:38:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Any 30-30, even with a full power jacketed loading , is not a good choice for 150 lb + deer. A good hit and it may still run off, needing tracking. Or some one will find and claim your deer.
The 30-06, with the same weight bullet (150 gr) will drop deer where they stand. Range is under 100 yards. Most will not agree with this. Just my experence. 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 6:55:03 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't totally disagree and believe it's worse with the old factory 170gr.
However: I've been loading the Hornady 160gr FTX with Leverevolution powder and this is a very leathel combination. I've have a black bear kill with them too. (Well my hand load does.) Of all the latest and greatest stuff out there these live up to the advertising. Motor |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:01:39 PM EDT
[#8]
I've been hunting in the Hill Country of Texas with a old beater '94 and every hog or deer I've shot had gone down like clubbed.
Using just basic Winchester 170 grain. For the hunt, spend a few bucks to get the right ammo and enjoy the hunt... Note 150 yards is my absolute max - most shots at around 100 yards |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:11:58 PM EDT
[#9]
See, my whole thing is that I want to kill a deer with my handload this year, not with factory ammo. I've killed plenty with factory ammo and want something new.
BTW, this is not necessarily trophy hunting. More like meat hunting for mostly does. I'm asking about these plain base bullets bc I have them on hand already. I bought them several years ago and didn't realize the velocity limitation at the time. Thank you all for the comments so far. I am now strongly considering trying out the FTX bullets with Leverrevolution powder. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:36:56 PM EDT
[#10]
OP:
I used a model 94 Winchester and Hornady data for the FTX/Leverevolution load work up. I was able to work up to the book maximum load. I am actually getting 50 feet per second more than what is listed. This is still within a reasonable margin though. I use CCI-200 primers, the OAL listed in the data, and crimp with a Lee FCD. The nice thing about using the 30-30 FTX is you don't need any special trim length like you do for some of the others. You are basically trimming to normal trim length and seating mid canalure. Try them. You'll never look back. Motor |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 7:37:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Deer have been killed with a 22 LR .
Black powder 45 cal muzzle loaders with a 127 gr pure lead ball , kill deer , with 65 gr of 3F powder at low velocity. A broadhead on a wood stick works also. 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See, my whole thing is that I want to kill a deer with my handload this year, not with factory ammo. I've killed plenty with factory ammo and want something new. BTW, this is not necessarily trophy hunting. More like meat hunting for mostly does. I'm asking about these plain base bullets bc I have them on hand already. I bought them several years ago and didn't realize the velocity limitation at the time. Thank you all for the comments so far. I am now strongly considering trying out the FTX bullets with Leverrevolution powder. Buy some 150 gr Soft Points, and load full power loads that will kill a deer. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 11:45:21 PM EDT
[#13]
The 1400 fps seems a bit slow , I agree at that speed at 150 yards things are getting sort of rainbow shaped in the trajectory department .
Try the bullets a bit faster (1600-1700 or so) and see if they are accurate enough for your type of hunting.You might get a bit of leading but I think if you start with a barrel cleaned well with copper solvent to get all traces of bullet jacket out you will find it ok. I am a fan of shooting lead but the other way to look at things is you are just not going to burn much ammo deer hunting. Go to Wal-Mart or whatever and a box of run of the mill hunting loads for 30-30 is only going to run you $17-$20. How big do the Deer in your area run? |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 11:55:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Something else just popped into my pointed head.
Does the 336 Texan have cut rifleing or is it micro-grove? It is possible to shoot lead out of a Micro-grove but I guess getting the load right is tricky. I had some lead loads that shot great in my Win 94 that we tried in a friends Marlin Micro-grove and it was barely making 8" at 50 yards |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 11:57:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Use the right tool for the job
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Posted: 8/6/2017 1:43:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any 30-30, even with a full power jacketed loading , is not a good choice for 150 lb + deer. A good hit and it may still run off, needing tracking. Or some one will find and claim your deer. The 30-06, with the same weight bullet (150 gr) will drop deer where they stand. Range is under 100 yards. Most will not agree with this. Just my experence. As I said, you have to be prudent with your shot placement and be in the range that will cleanly take them, but the 30-30 is still a great deer caliber. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 1:54:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something else just popped into my pointed head. Does the 336 Texan have cut rifleing or is it micro-grove? It is possible to shoot lead out of a Micro-grove but I guess getting the load right is tricky. I had some lead loads that shot great in my Win 94 that we tried in a friends Marlin Micro-grove and it was barely making 8" at 50 yards ETA: I'd recommend stepping up to a gas-check design and loading to roughly 2000fps. A 150gr or 170gr hard-cast flatnose at that velocity will put down a lot of hurt. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 7:24:57 AM EDT
[#18]
My 30-30 Win M94 with a 173 gr, using my home cast , gas checked bullet did well. Using IMR 4895 powder. Velocity will be around 1800 fps for accuracy.
My Marlin 1894, 44 magnum with micro groove rifling did not produce any accuracy, good enough to bother with. The 250gr with my home cast plain base shot 8 to 10 inch groups @ 100 yards. I even install a 10 power scope to work up loads. No help. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't have any personal experience with a micro groove bore but I'd bet that my powder coated bullets would work great in one.
The OP's primary objective is to use a hand load. You simply can't extract any better performance from the 30-30 than what you can get using the 160gr FTX and Leverevolution powder. The trajectory beats anything else hands down (anything safe to load in a tubular magazine) and the bullets perform just as they should. Before going to the FTX my pet 30-30 load used Sierra 125gr FNHP. You can get 2500f/s out of these. The 160gr FTX is actually flatter shooting and being 35gr heavier has a lot more energy. Motor |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 3:22:01 PM EDT
[#20]
I have a Texan. I have killed mountain lions and a 350+ lb black bear over my hounds with that gun. I use 170 Speer Hotcors and IMR 4895. It is not a speed demon, but I don't need one either for my purpose. The bullet works and will go clean through a bear or lion at that short distance. For deer hunting, I would want a little more speed. I would got with a 150 or 170 grain bullet and push it to a worked up load as fast as you safely can out of your gun. You are not going to get a lot of speed with that gun anyway. It might be retarded by as much as 150 fps from a 20 inch barrel.
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Posted: 8/6/2017 4:46:05 PM EDT
[#21]
How did Daniel Boone ever kill a deer?
The main problem for me would be lack of expansion. You could put a 0.31" hole through the deer, but would that stop it quickly? Yet, what you are doing is done all the time. With LLA, I can take my 13 BHN bullets up to about 1800 fps without any problem. Fit is what counts. Work up loads and watch for leading and by the time you're done, you might be out of bullets... |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 11:05:39 PM EDT
[#22]
I would use the bullets, keep the shots close, and make certain I can make the bullet strike in the heart and lungs.
I would prefer hard cast bullets with more speed. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 11:39:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I'm itching to deer hunt with my 336 Texan this year and I have a bunch of Falcon Bullets 165 gr RNFP plain base bullets I want to develop a load with. However Falcon doesn't recommend shooting them at speeds over 1400 fps. Is this too low of a velocity to be effective on deer at 100-150 yds? Everything I read seems to be against it, but I know before jacketed bullets came out, they must've done something like this, right? You bet, I've done it, just not at 100-150 yds. Mine have been done with a .303 British and a .308, both light loaded (1400-1500 fps) and both using cast bullets. All that's required is that you put the bullet through their lungs. That velocity and a bullet of that weight is enough to penetrate both lungs from a broadside shot out to 75 yds. or so. Just keep in mind that they're not going to bang flop as they do with a high velocity jacketed bullets. So you shoot, then sit and wait 10-15 minutes before you go off after them, like the bowhunters do. I have quite a few cast gas checked .30 caliber bullets ready to go, that I'll never shoot. If you're interested in any, shoot me a PM and I'll send you some. One of my most used is this one: 
My oldest daughter and I have taken a half dozen or so deer with that bullet. It weighs 172 grs. and I run in a little over 1800 fps. The furthest shot with this bullet and load was my daughters first deer which was a smidge over 100 yds. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 11:43:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Are you talking 100 yds or 500 yds?????
A 30 WCF (30-30) is not your basic long range caliber. So, your original question needs some additional info to answer with more that <snip> remember this isn't GD. dryflash3 |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 12:23:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See, my whole thing is that I want to kill a deer with my handload this year, not with factory ammo. I've killed plenty with factory ammo and want something new. BTW, this is not necessarily trophy hunting. More like meat hunting for mostly does. I'm asking about these plain base bullets bc I have them on hand already. I bought them several years ago and didn't realize the velocity limitation at the time. Thank you all for the comments so far. I am now strongly considering trying out the FTX bullets with Leverrevolution powder. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 1:10:17 AM EDT
[#26]
If it's a question of whether or not it MAY kill a deer, don't use it.
All my deer kills from the last two years (6) have been hand loaded ammo, but it's not even a question of whether or not it will get the job done You don't want to be the guy who injures an animal when you could have easily taken it |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 6:17:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I'm itching to deer hunt with my 336 Texan this year and I have a bunch of Falcon Bullets 165 gr RNFP plain base bullets I want to develop a load with. However Falcon doesn't recommend shooting them at speeds over 1400 fps. Is this too low of a velocity to be effective on deer at 100-150 yds? Everything I read seems to be against it, but I know before jacketed bullets came out, they must've done something like this, right? OP, you should buy some of the Falcon FalCoated 165 gr RNFP bullets. From their website: The 165gr RNFP is a perfect match for 30-30 lever guns. The FBC-30-CAL-165RNFP-C is hard cast to BHN 18 and is superb for hunting. It’s known to maintain its weight and shape even in brush allowing for on target penetration in most medium game. With our unique FalCoat bullet coating, these is no need to worry about leading or smoke.
We've pushed this bullet past 2500fps with excellent groupings at 200yrds! Personally, I think their are better bullets out there than a flat point lead bullet for hunting. With proper shot placement they will certainly work, but personally for hunting I would step up to a modern .30-30 bullet such as a Sierra Pro Hunter. However, if you like the idea of the solid lead flat point from Falcon, at least consider the coated version so you can push the velocity up. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 9:22:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Going against the grain here, but every doe I have shot in MS weighed less than 90# dripping wet.
If you can hit the heart lung with your cast bullets, you will have a dead deer. That said, unless I was emotionally attached to using those bullets, in your shoes, I would hand load some of the Levevrevoluion bullets and have a 200yd rifle and no worries. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 11:51:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Can you? Sure. Would I? No, I'd buy the best damn hunting ammo I could and shoot a few first to get an idea of sighting at 100 yards.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 2:12:22 PM EDT
[#30]
OK so I've taken the advice in this thread. Picked up some Leverevolution powder and a buddy had some FTX bullets he hooked me up with.
I will test loads of 34.0-37.0 gr of powder for accuracy and then load some hunting rounds based on what powder charge groups the best. I was hoping to go old school and shoot the cast bullets I had on hand, but I will save them for plinking with 10.0 gr Unique powder loads. Thank you @ggibbs for the generous offer, but as it stands, I will probably not run out of FTX bullets for hunting or my Falcon cast bullets for plinking in the foreseeable future. I just don't know that I'd have an opportunity to work up a third load for a third bullet in this caliber anytime soon. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 2:37:22 PM EDT
[#31]
I think you have decided upon the best course of action. I'd be curious to hear how the LeverRevolution powder performs in your rifle. I have a 336 myself and a pound of Lever I bought a while back. I plan to try it with some Sierra Pro Hunters
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