User Panel
Posted: 7/13/2017 6:35:21 PM EDT
I've loaded several thousand 9mm rounds over the last couple of years, however, I've struggled to get them to group as well as factory loads.
124 / 147 factory loads are absolute tack drivers for me, my reloads never seem to reach the same potential and I'm clueless as to why. I've stuck to the following projectiles - Montana 124 JHP / CMJ RN - Hornady 124 RN Encapsulated / XTP - and Berry 124 - the XTP's fly well but they have to be pushed extremely hard, Berrys plated actually grouped the best. Powder wise I've used - Silhouette - Universal - Power Pistol. For a while I used a Lee undersized die and that helped a little with accuracy. Currently sitting on a ton of 124 RN from Everglades that I've yet to load. Thoughts? Do I need to change powders, bullets? Most of my loads are nearing max and they still feel under powered compared to most factory loads. Most of these are being run through a Glock 34. |
|
125gr coated from precision or misery bullet co over to titegroup. Truncated cone fp.
I'm currently throwing around 4.5gr. In my glock 17 we busted off 250+ in 1 session. There was some residue. Idk if it was the coating or what, but 1 swipe of lead remover left the bbl clean as a whistle. With the 147 gr have you tried #7? Around 6.2, iirc |
|
I use Power Pistol exclusively in 9mm and .40 S&W.
115 grains Hornady XTP's I use 5.7 grains of Power Pistol for 1160 fps. 121 grain .356" Hornady HAP bullets I use 5.0 grains of Power Pistol for 1070 fps. 147 grain XTP's I use 4.7 grains of Power Pistol for 950 fps. All of these loads have been accurate, reliable and duplicate store bought velocities. I used Hornady's listed OAL" for each bullet using their 9th Edition manual as my guide. All loads were fired over a Oehler 35P chronograph with the screens around 12 feet forward of the firing line. |
|
The 124 XTP is about as accurate a bullet you can get. I don't have load data in front of me, but every 9mm pistol I've ever shot was lights out with the 124 XTP or Zero JHP over 6gr or so of Power Pistol (I think it's 6.1gr at 1.11" OAL). I'm talking 1 - 2" @ 25yds for 5 shots with my wrists rested on the bench, depending on the pistol. I won't own a pistol that won't shoot under 3" at 25 yards with my best handloads.
|
|
I'm not completely convinced the bullet is all that imperative, but no, it can't be junk.
Seems to me the recoil impulse of some factory ammo just favors small groups, why I don't know.....as I load all mine just enough to function the gun Had a better than me shooter shoot my pistol recently with 3.8 TG under 125 RN Blues.....small small group, I just can't do it with the same gun and ammo, not horrible but not as consistent. |
|
With the jacketed bullets, say 124 gr, measure the factory load crimp and use this same value. Shoot the factory load from the bench, then shoot your load, over a chrono if available. I have shot a ton of MT Gold bullets using the factory crimp spec and the groups were GTG. Some bullet/powder combos shoot well in one gun and OK in another. Silhouette is a good low flash and accurate powder and one of my favorites. Your hand load my not exactly match POI of a factory load...but we are loading for accuracy first I would think. When you find the sweet spot all will be grand :)
|
|
http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?/topic/59057-accurate-dcm-legal-9mm-load/
|
|
Stay with 115/124gr for target reloads. You're on the right track with Berry's Plated RNs. Xtreme 115grs will yield good accuracy also, as well as Hornady 115gr RNs. Stay away from HPs for target accuracy. For powder charges, you want low/mid range loads. I've loaded 4.0grs Bullseye/115gr, 1.125"oal for years, but had to bump up to 4.5grs for some of the newer pistols I bought. If I JUST shot my 226ee, I could load as low as 3.5grs Bullseye, Damn gun digests ANYTHING, Flawlessly!
|
|
Realisticall,
How much of a.difference does a load with pistols make when. Doing action shooting? I have make some dime size hole loads with my 308 but that was with a lot of case work. My accuracy is so low on handguns I just don't see a load difference vs a cheaper lower grain weight and more range time. |
|
Good topic.
I'm a bit disappointed in my hand loads. In my KKM barrel G19, 124gr Berry's over Autocomp perform wonderfully. About 2in groups at 25yards with 10 shots. Same handloads, my stock barrel G34 will do about 6in or so. Guess I need to try a different bullet |
|
OP: How are you determining OAL for your cartridges? As an example, my CZ pistols require a shorter OAL than Glock, in the same caliber.
When you pull a finished cartridge what does the projectile look like where it meets the case? You likely already know this, however tightening down your crimping die too much can have an adverse impact on your bullet and in turn, its accuracy. A chrono may help to gauge how consistent you're reloading your cartridges and/or the variation your powder is contributing. You want to see the standard deviation of your velocity <10, ideally less than 5 |
|
Winchester's 115 hbfmj bullets, seated out. Have found Win Q4172 to be most accurate fmj factory round I tried. Pulled a bullet on one, and found the hollow base bullet, which may expand a little on firing. Am using the lee undersize die (part way after regular sizing) to get adequate interference fit with the col of 1.155 - 1.160. Used to use 7625, but almost any common powder should do it.
|
|
Quoted:
Winchester's 115 hbfmj bullets, seated out. Have found Win Q4172 to be most accurate fmj factory round I tried. Pulled a bullet on one, and found the hollow base bullet, which may expand a little on firing. Am using the lee undersize die (part way after regular sizing) to get adequate interference fit with the col of 1.155 - 1.160. Used to use 7625, but almost any common powder should do it. View Quote Reread my first post. |
|
I have had good luck with RMR plated bullets, any 124gr flavor and Bayou Hi-Tek coated Bullets.
I really like their 135gr RN. They are insanely accurate in my G34, with stock barrel, or my Lone Wolf. I load the RMRs with BE86 to come close to factory loads, and the Bayous with Titegroup to produce very accurate, soft shooting competition loads. I always use an EGW undersize die, just enough bell to seat the bullet without scraping, and a LEE FCD to JUST take the bell out of the case. I find the undersize die gives great neck tension without having to rely on the crimp. |
|
9mm is really easy to create accurate loads for a rig.
From the start, really need to slug the bore to figure out what bore size it has if a production barrel. With most production type barrels, they are not .355", but somewhere around .356~.358 isntead (don't ask). So by knowing what size the bore is, really tells you what size bullet you will needing as well. If a hard jacket bullet, then you need that size bore bullet, while if you are loading softer outer surface plated or cast PC bullet, may need to size the bullet up .001 over the bore size instead. Next we come to the chamber on the barrel, and again if a production type barrel, bank that it on the loose side. This is a good thing to make sure it feeds, and can even be over come to a degree with hand loading to make the barrel take drive as well (will get to this later). The last thing we need to check is the lock up of the barrel to the slide, and even to confirm that you have the the correct recoil spring in play for the reload being used. If you have say a 92fs, then it possable to rework the slide cam lock to get the barrel to lock up tight in the slide, while on some other designs where you have the hood of the barrel locking up to the slide, may have to rework the barrel hood to get a better/tighter lock up instead. Ok, lets focus in on the load for the rifle. From that start, sperical powder is going to meter the best out of a stock dispensor, while if you are going to reload with flake or short grain extruded powder, may have to mod the dispensor to get more uniform throws isntead. Back to the bullet, and it really needs to be sized match the barrel bore. Here is where casting, PC coating, and casting your own really pays off, since you can end size the bullet to match the bore size. As for the COL of the round, you only want about .003" jump to lands, hence just enough that the round will feed without problems and the bullet not embedding, but not a ton of jump to lands when the round is fired instead. Each bullet ogive is different, so it just a mater of figuring out the needed COL for that bullet type to end up with a min jump to lands. Also to point out, with this min jump to lands, you end up with less blow by as the case if firing forming to chamber. Regarding primers, even through you may be using a spherical powder, do not use a mag primer for standard 9mm loads. The last thing is working up the ladder with powder amounts for the load, and while doing this, make sure that you are recoil spring'd correctly. There are two trains of though for correctly spung. The first is that you want a ejection distance of around 5' for the spent cases, but this only works if the ejection parts and port have been tuned for a clean path out. In say a glock, you can't use this distance as your gauge since the pistol is not ejection path tuned to put the brass in the same pile, and even since the gen 4 guns have less ejection path distance due to the new 2 stage recoil spring assembly. The second way, and the better way, is to just see if the front sight is coming back down on the target you are aiming at once the slide has locked back up. If the slide/front sight is ending up above the POA after the slide comes back, the spring is too weak for the load, while if the front site is ending up under the POA when the slide comes back, then the recoil spring is too strong instead. Really to sum it up, tell us what pistol you have, and we can help with the needed mods in the first place to get it to shoot tight to begin with, then dial you in on the loads to finalize it shooting it tightest groups it can in your hands. |
|
Power pistol worked fine for me but I was recommended True Blue by Dryflash.
It's been great, measures like water, accuracy is right there on a middle of the road charge. I tried 124gr bullets, my 9's prefer 115gr. Ymmv. |
|
Quoted:
You missed the part where OP said he was loading for a couple of CZ's. Reread my first post. View Quote |
|
|
|
Quoted:
This is my favorite 9mm bullet for CZ's http://www.bayoubullets.net/9mm-124-gr-rn-1000-ct/ http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-jqlmm51h/products/99/images/354/124_Gold__39022.1401066256.1280.1280.png?c=2 View Quote |
|
Quoted:
...... With most production type barrels, they are not .356, but somewhere around .357~.358 isntead (don't ask). So by knowing what size the bore is, really tells you what size bullet you will needing as well. View Quote |
|
I don't have a CZ pistol other than my Evo, but I will say that my groups with it were cut by more than half going to Berrys plated 124 flat top hollow base at 1.13 over 3.7 of TG.
I do plan to get a CZ P10 sooner or later. |
|
Quoted:
Nothing in the op about using cz,s, looks like a Glock 34 is mentioned though? Also don't see a previous post from you in this thread. However I have been loading for several cz's for quite a long time, and very familiar with the long pointed ogee on Winchester's 115 fmjhb use in short leade of cz, are you? View Quote Another 9mm thread that I posted in. |
|
I have five .38 supers and every one of them can shoot <2" at 25 yards. I have two 9x21s and every one of them can shoot <2" at 25 yards. I have ten 9x19s and not one of them can consistently shoot <3" at 25 yards.
1) Try 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullets. One of my favorites is the Zero 121gn 38 super JHP 2) What accuracy are all of you even talking about and what does the OP want? Accuracy for many appears to be 6" at 7 yards. Accuracy for others is 2" at 25 yards. Accuracy for a few is 1.5" at 50 yards. If you're going to talk accuracy, group size and distance is required. For me, I am happy with my 9x21 and .38 Super pistols giving me <2" groups at 25 yards, but I can't get any of 9x19s to consistently shoot <3" at 25 yards consistently. Only trends for my guns: 1) Power Pistol has been the most accurate, producing the highest number of <2" groups at 25 yards over range of bullets (but NOT repeatably), powders, and charge weights. Silhouette has been #2. 2) Zero 121gn 38 super JHP and Precision Delta 124gn JHP have been accurate compared to many other bullets. 3) 121-125gn have been most accurate, with 115gn being close. 147gn has not been as accurate, though this weight has done OK in a CZ Shadow. 4) Cast has been as accurate as jacketed (if large enough). Tried only a couple of plated bullets and they make better paper weights. |
|
More or less "accurate powders" is really a matter of whether you are loading for accuracy or velocity. Trying to get the fastest bullet speed is bad for accuracy, and hotter end loads are typically less accurate than somewhat milder loads. If you MUST get a particular power factor, then you need to dink around with which powder is "most accurate" for your need.
I got decent accuracy at 20 yards with Unique and 124 grain FMJs, running around the middle of the charge range. I haven't messed with that load any more since I have been tinkering with other things, but I see no reason I couldn't get 2" groups at 20 yards if I spent the time testing loads. |
|
Thanks for all the replies - Settled on 5.7 power pistol @ 1.150" with a .375" crimp.
|
|
3.8 gn Titegroup under Berry's 124 plated RNs is my IPSC load and plenty accurate out of my Shadow 2. Makes about a 135 PF.
|
|
Nothing wrong with the Montana Gold 124 JHP / CMJ RN bullets, they have been a accurate bullet for me using W231/HP38 and True Blue, sounds like you might have found a good load with Power Pistol powder though.
|
|
Is there an easy way to slug a barrel to find the diameter? Not into casting. Barely have enough time to reload as it is.
|
|
Hornady and speer used to sell various sizes of soft lead roundball, maybe still do. Clean barrel good, oil it and drive appropriate lead ball through with dowel from muzzle. Sometimes the rifling style doesn't allow 100 % accuracy, but you will get close. There is a wide variation in 9mm bores and chamber cuts, with a lot being slightly oversize.
|
|
Quoted:
Hornady and speer used to sell various sizes of soft lead roundball, maybe still do. Clean barrel good, oil it and drive appropriate lead ball through with dowel from muzzle. Sometimes the rifling style doesn't allow 100 % accuracy, but you will get close. There is a wide variation in 9mm bores and chamber cuts, with a lot being slightly oversize. View Quote |
|
if you drive an appropriately sized soft lead ball through the barrel, what do you end up with? Appropriately sized referring to a diameter slightly larger than the bore.
|
|
4 gr's of Bullseye with a 125gr Acme coated fp, no barrel leading, nice easy shooting load, and you can shoot the center out of the target, what more do you want?
|
|
The most accurate 9mm load I've found is a max charge of Bluedot with a 147 gr bullet
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.