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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:41:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Buy the .224'' bullets. That's the normal diameter for jacketed bullets in .223 Rem.
You can use data for other bullets if the other bullet is close to what you have data for. IOW, you can't use data for FMJ with a lead bullet, but if you have 2 FMJ's the same weight and ~the same length you can use the same data. Always start with the START load listed and work up. Varget is a good choice of powder, but it has it's drawbacks. It's more expensive, it doesn't meter very well in powder measures and with high case volume loadings you may have to compress it or use a drop tube. It is one of the most accurate powders out there though. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 6:42:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
1) Online in the description when I search for .223 bullet for reloading, i see in the description: ".224 diameter rifle bullet"; I do not quite get it, why .224? isn't it .223? (5.56?), so should I go ahead and order those ".224 diameter bullets" ? 2) On this website http://www.hodgdonreloading.com I see it gives necessary load data depending on your caliber and bullet weight. But I only see 3 bullet manufacturers Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester. My question is, what if I buy bullet from completely different manufacturer, like say... "Armscor Precision", can I still go ahead and use data from table on that website? 3) I am planning to buy a Varget powder to reload my .223 (5.56), does it sound ok? Any comments on that? My uneducated theory on why bullets run a little larger than bore diameter is that it gives them a more consistent fit. .224" is certainly the diameter of bullet you will need for loading .223 Rem. Yes, with some caution. Try to match the weight and type of bullet as closely as possible when making a substitution and start with low to medium charges of powder. Yes, Varget is one of the best powder choices for loading medium to heavy bullets in .223 Rem. It will work very well with bullets in the 55gn to 77gn range - I haven't tried it with a bullet heavier than 77gn. Some other, similar powders that you could also try are Reloader 15 and Viht N140. Those three powders are just a few very popular choices, there are many, many others. IMR 8208 XBR is another one that you will find a lot of reference to on this forum and elsewhere online for loading .223 Rem - it's faster than the other powders I have mentioned and should offer a little more versatility with lighter bullets. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:04:04 AM EDT
[#3]
My recommendation would be to read a few different reloading manuals before getting started. ABCs of reloading is a good one. Those books will also have many different bullet weight and powder combinations to consider.
Why are you reloading? Bulk production? Precision? Hobby? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:21:03 AM EDT
[#4]
You mentioned Armscor bullets. While I personally have never used them I have steered clear because they have a reputation for low quality.
Telling us what weight bullet you plan to shoot will help. If not the weight than what you are looking to do with the bullet. Ball powders meter much better than extruded. I like Hodgdon H335 for my .223 loads. Others love Ramshot TAC. Not sure of you reason for reloading. If it is purely to save money, .223 is so cheap now that commercial ammo is hard to beat, price per round for 55gr. If you are looking to load a precision round the the 77gr SMK than you can save a little money and make a round that is the most accurate for your gun. One last thing about a question that comes up often. .223 and 5.56mm are reloaded using the same .223 dies. The difference is the pressure which is determined by the powder charge. .223 is a lower pressure round. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:19:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
OK I am waiting for some reloading equipment i ordered. And in the meantime shopping for bullets and powder now. I got few questions so far: 1) Online in the description when I search for .223 bullet for reloading, i see in the description: ".224 diameter rifle bullet"; I do not quite get it, why .224? isn't it .223? (5.56?), so should I go ahead and order those ".224 diameter bullets" ? 2) On this website http://www.hodgdonreloading.com I see it gives necessary load data depending on your caliber and bullet weight. But I only see 3 bullet manufacturers Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester. My question is, what if I buy bullet from completely different manufacturer, like say... "Armscor Precision", can I still go ahead and use data from table on that website? 3) I am planning to buy a Varget powder to reload my .223 (5.56), does it sound ok? Any comments on that? thanks. 2) Forget Armscore bullets. Low quality and they shoot patterns not groups. 
You want Hornady 55 gr FMJBT's to begin with. Easy to load, accurate and not expensive. Use data for the bullet weight you actually have. 3) Forget Varget. It will work but you will discover it's measuring issues. It's a long grain extruded powder and resembles a log. Most folks that use it buy a $300 electronic gismo to drop charges. Not me. Much better to begin with a Ball powder that measures exact from a powder measure. CFE-223, Tac, H-335, A-2230, ect. Get a copy of ABC's of Reloading. It was written for someone just starting like you. It covers reloading equipment, components, and how to reload. Then get a copy of Lyman 50, a great reloading manual. Has data for rifle and pistol, cast and jacketed bullets. Read this thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/263380_Everything-You-Wanted-to-Know-About-Reloading-But-Was-Afraid-to-Ask.html Welcome to our hobby and the Reloading Forum. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 2:12:54 PM EDT
[#6]
I started a thread here within the past 6 months specifically asking about the Armscor .223 bullets.
my angle on that is a little different because I used to shoot a lot of Montana Gold bullets. and my one gun club president swears that Montana Gold and Armscor bullets were made by the same people. I have probably about 3,000 of the Montana Gold .223 bullets. They group okay. Hence I asked about the Armscor bullets here within the past 6 months. everybody here told me to steer clear of them. And lots of people recommended the Hornady 55 grain FMJBT bullets. You should really, REALLY read that A, B, Cs of Reloading book. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:00:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Beginning reloader should look for a moderate load and an accurate bullet (not cheap, go cheap later).
1. Yes, use 0.224" diameter bullets. My recommendation - buy a box of Sierra 52 gr MatchKing bullets. These are an accurate bullet. If your rifle won't shoot these well, something is wrong with the shooter or rifle or the reloading process. Really, try them. It's one box of 100 bullets. Hold off buying and using the Armscor bullets at least until the MatchKings have been loaded and tested. 2. Look at several web sites before you load. As a minimum, check the bullet maker's web site and the powder maker's web site. Once you get into the right range or [powders, come back here and ask for load advice. 3. Varget is an excellent powder. Similar to what I said about bullets, start with good powder like Varget. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:36:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1) .224 Cartridge names are names and seldom have accurate bullet diameter. Some do. some don't. 223 is a don't. 2) Forget Armscore bullets. Low quality and they shoot patterns not groups.
You want Hornady 55 gr FMJBT's to begin with. Easy to load, accurate and not expensive. Use data for the bullet weight you actually have. 3) Forget Varget. It will work but you will discover it's measuring issues. It's a long grain extruded powder and resembles a log. Most folks that use it buy a $300 electronic gismo to drop charges. Not me. Much better to begin with a Ball powder that measures exact from a powder measure. CFE-223, Tac, H-335, A-2230, ect. Get a copy of ABC's of Reloading. It was written for someone just starting like you. It covers reloading equipment, components, and how to reload. Then get a copy of Lyman 50, a great reloading manual. Has data for rifle and pistol, cast and jacketed bullets. Read this thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/263380_Everything-You-Wanted-to-Know-About-Reloading-But-Was-Afraid-to-Ask.html Welcome to our hobby and the Reloading Forum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OK I am waiting for some reloading equipment i ordered. And in the meantime shopping for bullets and powder now. I got few questions so far: 1) Online in the description when I search for .223 bullet for reloading, i see in the description: ".224 diameter rifle bullet"; I do not quite get it, why .224? isn't it .223? (5.56?), so should I go ahead and order those ".224 diameter bullets" ? 2) On this website http://www.hodgdonreloading.com I see it gives necessary load data depending on your caliber and bullet weight. But I only see 3 bullet manufacturers Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester. My question is, what if I buy bullet from completely different manufacturer, like say... "Armscor Precision", can I still go ahead and use data from table on that website? 3) I am planning to buy a Varget powder to reload my .223 (5.56), does it sound ok? Any comments on that? thanks. 2) Forget Armscore bullets. Low quality and they shoot patterns not groups.
You want Hornady 55 gr FMJBT's to begin with. Easy to load, accurate and not expensive. Use data for the bullet weight you actually have. 3) Forget Varget. It will work but you will discover it's measuring issues. It's a long grain extruded powder and resembles a log. Most folks that use it buy a $300 electronic gismo to drop charges. Not me. Much better to begin with a Ball powder that measures exact from a powder measure. CFE-223, Tac, H-335, A-2230, ect. Get a copy of ABC's of Reloading. It was written for someone just starting like you. It covers reloading equipment, components, and how to reload. Then get a copy of Lyman 50, a great reloading manual. Has data for rifle and pistol, cast and jacketed bullets. Read this thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/263380_Everything-You-Wanted-to-Know-About-Reloading-But-Was-Afraid-to-Ask.html Welcome to our hobby and the Reloading Forum. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 4:01:44 AM EDT
[#9]
wow guys so many responses! awesome, ok here it goes, I am about to answer some questions asked regarding what exactly i'm trying to do:
1) I am planning to reload two types of .223 ammo for now - 62/55 gr and 75/77 gr. I want precision and heavy bullet for stronger impact for 75/77 gr loads, and I want cheapness for 62/55 gr loads for shooting steel plates. 2) JoeMal recommended me to read a reloading book, dryflash3 recommended ABCs of reloading and Lyman 50 which I will get, but can you guys also point me to a book which has data for these calibers as well: 6.5 grendel, 6.5 creedmor, .308, 5.45x39, 300 win mag, 458 SOCOM? (in future once I get better, I want to reload those too) 3) As per dryflash3 recommendation as well as others saying that Varget does not measure well, I decided to get CFE-223, sounds good? How would that one work with my Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure? 4) I know Trollslayer recommended Sierra Matchking 52 gr, but they are overly expensive!...I am getting now Hornady 55 grain FMJBT to start with, are these the right ones to order? 55gr FMJBT Hornady 5) Just a quick info, my weapon is AR-15, 16" 1:7. it already has over 2000 rounds in it from 55gr to 75 gr Hornady ammo I was buying, not even single malfunction. 1000 out of those rounds were Wolf steel. 6) As Trollslayer recommended, I will look more before actually loading it all, and come back here to report the planned load. But for now, im ordering CFE-223 and Hornady 55 gr FMJBT. I'll be back. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 4:36:10 AM EDT
[#10]
7) One more quick question before I move on, I was picking up all types of .223 brass from range, I'll be processing those for reload. And the question is, do I have to worry about which brass is designed for higher pressure and which is not? Or for any healthy looking brass after it been properly washed/cleaned/chamfered/deburred etc. it does not matter?
8) And I forgot about primers! Which ones should I use for my current selection of CFE-223 + 55gr Hornady FMJBT + Range picked up brass processed by me? (and which primers should I use from now on for .223?) |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:03:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wow guys so many responses! awesome, ok here it goes, I am about to answer some questions asked regarding what exactly i'm trying to do: 1) I am planning to reload two types of .223 ammo for now - 62/55 gr and 75/77 gr. I want precision and heavy bullet for stronger impact for 75/77 gr loads, and I want cheapness for 62/55 gr loads for shooting steel plates. 2) JoeMal recommended me to read a reloading book, dryflash3 recommended ABCs of reloading and Lyman 50 which I will get, but can you guys also point me to a book which has data for these calibers as well: 6.5 grendel, 6.5 creedmor, .308, 5.45x39, 300 win mag, 458 SOCOM? (in future once I get better, I want to reload those too) 3) As per dryflash3 recommendation as well as others saying that Varget does not measure well, I decided to get CFE-223, sounds good? How would that one work with my Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure? 4) I know Trollslayer recommended Sierra Matchking 52 gr, but they are overly expensive!...I am getting now Hornady 55 grain FMJBT to start with, are these the right ones to order? 55gr FMJBT Hornady 5) Just a quick info, my weapon is AR-15, 16" 1:7. it already has over 2000 rounds in it from 55gr to 75 gr Hornady ammo I was buying, not even single malfunction. 1000 out of those rounds were Wolf steel. 6) As Trollslayer recommended, I will look more before actually loading it all, and come back here to report the planned load. But for now, im ordering CFE-223 and Hornady 55 gr FMJBT. I'll be back. Also I reload a lot with CFE 223, it works great for the heavier bullets but I think H335 or Tac would be better for lighter bullets. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 8:05:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wow guys so many responses! awesome, ok here it goes, I am about to answer some questions asked regarding what exactly i'm trying to do: 1) I am planning to reload two types of .223 ammo for now - 62/55 gr and 75/77 gr. I want precision and heavy bullet for stronger impact for 75/77 gr loads, and I want cheapness for 62/55 gr loads for shooting steel plates. 2) JoeMal recommended me to read a reloading book, dryflash3 recommended ABCs of reloading and Lyman 50 which I will get, but can you guys also point me to a book which has data for these calibers as well: 6.5 grendel, 6.5 creedmor, .308, 5.45x39, 300 win mag, 458 SOCOM? (in future once I get better, I want to reload those too) Lyman 50 is what you seek. 3) As per dryflash3 recommendation as well as others saying that Varget does not measure well, I decided to get CFE-223, sounds good? How would that one work with my Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure? I only have steel powder measures, don't know. 4) I know Trollslayer recommended Sierra Matchking 52 gr, but they are overly expensive!...I am getting now Hornady 55 grain FMJBT to start with, are these the right ones to order? 55gr FMJBT Hornady Yes, and that's a good price. 5) Just a quick info, my weapon is AR-15, 16" 1:7. it already has over 2000 rounds in it from 55gr to 75 gr Hornady ammo I was buying, not even single malfunction. 1000 out of those rounds were Wolf steel. 6) As Trollslayer recommended, I will look more before actually loading it all, and come back here to report the planned load. But for now, im ordering CFE-223 and Hornady 55 gr FMJBT. A good combo, learn reloading with 55 gr bullets , then move on to the heavies. I'll be back. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 8:11:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7) One more quick question before I move on, I was picking up all types of .223 brass from range, I'll be processing those for reload. And the question is, do I have to worry about which brass is designed for higher pressure and which is not? Or for any healthy looking brass after it been properly washed/cleaned/chamfered/deburred etc. it does not matter? All 223 brass will load to 223 pressures even if it says 5.56. I don't load FC due to poor quality rifle cases. Some load it, I won't. 8) And I forgot about primers! Which ones should I use for my current selection of CFE-223 + 55gr Hornady FMJBT + Range picked up brass processed by me? (and which primers should I use from now on for .223?) Small rifle primers.Your loading data will recommend a brand. Don't get Rem 6 1/2, they are for low pressure rounds. the most important thing is to seat them .002 to .003 below flush. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#14]
dryflash3,
Can you recommend me a primer brand knowing that I am using 55 gr hornady FMJBT and CFE-223, or you said my loading data will recommend brand for primer because it would depend on weight of powder being loaded, or? Also you said you don't load FC due to poor quality cases, what is "FC" ? My aim was to start with light load for learning, but later load hot loads of 5.56 in the brass which I processed from the range after picking it up, is it OK or BAD idea? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:03:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dryflash3, Can you recommend me a primer brand knowing that I am using 55 gr hornady FMJBT and CFE-223, or you said my loading data will recommend brand for primer because it would depend on weight of powder being loaded, or? Also you said you don't load FC due to poor quality cases, what is "FC" ? Federal, FC is their headstamp. My aim was to start with light load for learning, but later load hot loads of 5.56 in the brass which I processed from the range after picking it up, is it OK or BAD idea? Rem 7 1/2 Look for these first and don't worry about the next paragraph. Wolf SRM (no longer available) I still have a supply I bought when they were $15 per K Tula SR (no longer available) Almost out of these. Win SR (SR= small rifle) Fed (federal) SR CCI 400, 450, I never buy or use any size of CCI primers, as they seat harder than all the other brands. Lots of folks use them with good results, I just don't like them and you asked. One thing with primers, the term magnum can mean different things with different brands. Then some primer cups are harder than others. Match means the primers were made by the most experienced workers and will be more consistent. You want to use light loads, that's good and that's where you want to begin at. In a reloading manual the smallest powder charge listed is called the "start" load. Because it's where you begin loading and work up from there. NEVER LOAD BELOW THE START LOAD. Normally the "start" load is where the firearm (semi auto) will function and you can be sure the bullet will not stick in the barrel. Also the 'start' load will be low pressure (for the cartridge) and safe. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#16]
I think all of your questions so far are answered in the books. (besides component recommendations.)
After I read the books I kept (and keep) going back to them. I can't remember everything, and in the beginning its a bit of a data overload. If I started all over again I think I'd keep better track of how many times cases are fired. Hornady 55 fmjbt is the best quality/quantity sold. Took me years to try Hdy55 with 25grains of H335. Wish I would of tried it from the get go. Most common load is my most accurate, go figure? Also, if you ever have the slightest inkling something isn't right, stop. start over. ( pull bullets, scrap brass, remeasure, dump powder, whatever.) A few bucks are not worth a kaboom. Cheers. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:04:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Bullets:
If you are just getting started, I would not recommend a SP Flat base bullet. SP bullets may not be the best choice for semi-autos. I would suggest a fmjbt bullet. Something like this: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/hornady-55-fmj-bullets/ Powder: I would not chose Varget as a first time loader. Pick something that measures more accurately. Hogdon H335 is a good starting powder. Powder Valley has it in stock: https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ Primers: Winchester small rifle works well. If you are trying to duplicate military loads, CCI #41 primers. Power Valley has both in stock. Brass: Mixed range brass can be a mixed bag (lol). Sort your brass very carefully and make sure you load brass that is safe. Also, keep an eye out for military brass that might require de-crimping. Rounds with a circle and plus on the headstamp denote nato rounds. They will need to be de-crimped. Start simple and get a few thousand rounds under your belt. Then move onto more complicated reloading. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are just getting started, I would not recommend a SP Flat base bullet. I would suggest a fmjbt bullet. Something like this: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/hornady-55-fmj-bullets/ As far as powder, I would not chose Varget as a first time loader. Pick something that measures more accurately. Hogdon H335 is a good starting powder. Powder Valley has it in stock: https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 11:22:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Dryflash,Ok so I am using 55gr FMJBT Hornady, CFE-223, and these primers: Rem 7 1/2 Are these the best one for my load, right? And the correct product I selected?
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Posted: 6/30/2017 11:34:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dryflash,Ok so I am using 55gr FMJBT Hornady, CFE-223, and these primers: Rem 7 1/2 Are these the best one for my load, right? And the correct product I selected? I never order from Cabela's due to high prices. I prefer Midsouth or Natchez myself. But your choice. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 11:49:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Dryflash Nailed It!
Do not take shortcuts! Work up your loads! Do not mass loading till you have verified as accurate and reliable. There are whole lot of "smart mouthed know it all novice reloaders" that have done that only because their ability to read and follow basic reloading steps of working of a load. And, some of use get a good chuckle out of that! Learn to make SAFE RELIABLE AND ACCURATE Ammo! That will put a smile on your face and increase your confidence. What is accurate someone else's gun my not be safe in yours let alone accurate. You want success. There is no more accurate powder in the 223 than Varget. The down side of Varget is being and extruded powder and not necessarily meant for easy volume reloading. Ball powders shine with volume loading. H322 measures nicely and works very well with light bullets 40-52gr H335/W748 are two choice for 50-55gr bullets TAC is a great option for 60gr bullets or better Primers in rifle loading projects can and do make a difference and any one that says the match and standard primers are same must be a moron! I personally am not a fan Winchester primers for 223 that goes back to when Win quit nickel plating and I had pierce primers with the new brass offering. TAC gets CCI 450 only because back aways that was primer that Ramshot used to develop a set of data, they have since changed their data work up. Varget works great with BR4, Rem 7.5, Fed 205 H322 Fed 205 and CCI 400 H335 works well with Rem 7.5 In the end your rifle does the talking! |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 2:30:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Guys hello, and hi Dryflash3
ok, so I am moving on, I bought the components, not online but got it in a local shop. OK so here are my next questions, because I am not quite sure about some steps. 1) Here is all I got, a new brass bought from shop, 8lb of cfe-223, Rem 7 1/2 SR primers, and Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT, as you can see it also says "with cannelure"! I hope it's ok. 
2) My Lyman 50 and ABCs of reloading are on the way, but in order to get going I also bought kindle version of Hornadys Reloading Manual 10th edition and already have it. 3) In order to divide and conquer for potential troubleshooting I decided to buy a ready made brass, so first, I will be making a round which is for sure processed properly and new, later on I will be processing own brass and cleaning it (and my cleaning equipment havent arrived yet), so I just bought .223 unprimed brass. 4) I already have some issues in terms of what load to put with CFE-223 in Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT w/Cannelure, I looked This thread and someone was reporting to load a 26.1gr load in it and it worked well for him, however i dont think his bullet was "with Cannelure". The problem is, the Hornady Manual says Minimum Load is 24.8gr (I am attaching snapshot from Hornady's manual 10th ed) and the hodgon website deoesnt have data for Hornady bullet but says minimum is 24.8gr for BAR TSX 55gr and 26.1 for SPR SP... now, which load do I go with? Should I just go with START LOAD of Hornady's 10th edition manual as shown in attached image, which is 24.8gr? Or, should I move load up to make it a common denominator and choose 26.1gr as per Hornady's manual's, this way I am also WITHIN the range of Hodgon data? I really need an advice here from you guys because I don't know what to do now. 
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Posted: 7/1/2017 2:31:19 PM EDT
[#23]
5) Reading the reloading manual of Hornady 10th ed, and it lists the following cases: 223 Remington, 223 Remington Service Rifle Data, 5.56 NATO.
For some reason it says that primer is Winchester WSR for 223 Remington and for 223 Remington Service Rifle and it is just WSR for 5.56 NATO, but I am using Rem 7 1/2 which is listed as a primer for 222 Remingon, so is it ok? 6) How do I check the dimensions of case? I have this Lee Case length Gage would this one work? should I also buy this thing maybe too? 7) question similar to #6, how do I now measure the assembled cartridge COL (cartridge overall length)? That case gage i guess won't work anymore because it is for case not overall cartridge, am I right? Can you give me link to proper tool for that then? and also... of course I can measure it with above electronic ruler just as well, right? But I assume there should be some gage for assemled cartridge length to make it easy...like insert and read, right? |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 5:06:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5) Reading the reloading manual of Hornady 10th ed, and it lists the following cases: 223 Remington, 223 Remington Service Rifle Data, 5.56 NATO. For some reason it says that primer is Winchester WSR for 223 Remington and for 223 Remington Service Rifle and it is just WSR for 5.56 NATO, but I am using Rem 7 1/2 which is listed as a primer for 222 Remingon, so is it ok? 6) How do I check the dimensions of case? I have this Lee Case length Gage would this one work? should I also buy this thing maybe too? 7) question similar to #6, how do I now measure the assembled cartridge COL (cartridge overall length)? That case gage i guess won't work anymore because it is for case not overall cartridge, am I right? Can you give me link to proper tool for that then? and also... of course I can measure it with above electronic ruler just as well, right? But I assume there should be some gage for assemled cartridge length to make it easy...like insert and read, right? 6a) Case gages are not very good. Get this, instead - Hornady Headspace Gage 6b) You MUST have a caliper but do not buy such a small caliper. Get an 6" or 8" caliper, instead. Heck, buy two. Caliper |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 6:41:36 PM EDT
[#25]
I'll throw this out there just as an option sine you like shopping at Midsouth.
Take A look at their varmit nightmare FBHP bullets. Theses are usually the same price or cheaper the fmj and for me, have been more accurate. I load them with 26.6gr of CFE223 and CCI 41 primers. Like Dryflash said, the federal brass is lower quality them LC,win, etc. I load it, but only get two reloadings out of it before I junk it. The primer pocket doesn't hold up. I prefer LC, even with having to decrimp. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
6a) Case gages are not very good. Get this, instead - Hornady Headspace Gage Because when I called to a local shop, a reloader selling guy there told me that it is a waste of money for me after I told him that I am trying just to measure the COL after the bullet is seated, he told me that I can just do it with electronic caliper. So what exactly is that lock-n-load gage is for? what is it doing beyond measuring COL? Do I really need it? So does it mean that I do not need overall cartridge gage? can you give more info on this? |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 7:31:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, those are what you want. I never order from Cabela's due to high prices. I prefer Midsouth or Natchez myself. But your choice. Bass Pro prices make Cabelas seem like a bargain. I like H335 for my 5gr .223 loads. For bullets I have had good luck with Hornady FMJBT, Berry's, XTreme and even Wolf. I bought a large lot from a reloader getting out and I got CCI #41 primers. These things are horrible to prime. They feel like the crimp is still in. I have a good size stash of Wolf primers. I like those. Hopefully Trump will open the door for Wolf to import them again. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 7:42:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hmm..can you tell me what this thing is for? Because when I called to a local shop, a reloader selling guy there told me that it is a waste of money for me after I told him that I am trying just to measure the COL after the bullet is seated, he told me that I can just do it with electronic caliper. So what exactly is that lock-n-load gage is for? what is it doing beyond measuring COL? Do I really need it? So does it mean that I do not need overall cartridge gage? can you give more info on this? 1. overall length of the case. This is where trimming comes in. 2. Headspace of the cartridge. This is the shoulder where it goes from big to small. Use the Hornady headspace comparator for this. You can use a case gauge but it is not as accurate. 3. OAL after seating the bullet. Not as critical but you need to make sure they will fit in the magazine. Seating them to mid-cannelure will be right on as long as your cases are trimmed correctly. Setting the shoulder correctly is the hardest part. It can be confusing until you understand what you are doing. When the round is fired the brass expands to fit the camber of your gun. You would measure a fired round from you gun. Then set the die so that after sizing you are .002" shorter with the measurement. The tool Hornady sells is a comparator. You are not measuring actual length but rather zero your caliper on a fired case. Then look for a -.002" reading when measuring a sized case. If you are loading for multiple guns measure one from each gun and find the shorted one then set the die to push the shoulder back from that short case measurement. Then you will be good. I set everything with my caliper and a comparator. Then I just use the case gauge to do a quick check several times during my brass prep time. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 8:21:38 PM EDT
[#29]
OK, then it means that I definitely need that tool which Trollslayer was pointing, this one, right? Even if I have Lee loading setup, it is still OK for me to buy this Hornady thing? Because it is independent from my lee press and never interacts with it, correct?
But I have another question then...we all sometimes buy standard ammo, 223/556 etc, from different brands, I assume manufacturers of that ammo don't do such measurement as firing every one's gun and then look for -0.002", does it mean they make it up to some specific standard measurement? the reason I am asking this question is I wanna know why are we forced to make such measurement, like fire round from your gun, measure case headspace, then size new case for smaller value..cant I just use standard value? |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 10:41:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, then it means that I definitely need that tool which Trollslayer was pointing, this one, right? Even if I have Lee loading setup, it is still OK for me to buy this Hornady thing? Because it is independent from my lee press and never interacts with it, correct? But I have another question then...we all sometimes buy standard ammo, 223/556 etc, from different brands, I assume manufacturers of that ammo don't do such measurement as firing every one's gun and then look for -0.002", does it mean they make it up to some specific standard measurement? the reason I am asking this question is I wanna know why are we forced to make such measurement, like fire round from your gun, measure case headspace, then size new case for smaller value..cant I just use standard value? I use headspace tools. Mo DeFina sold me a .30-06 micrometer headspace gage at Camp Perry in the mid-80's and I never looked back. I purchased a .223 and a .308 micrometer headspace gages within the next few years. Nowadays Hornady sells a tool that will work with most cartridges commonly used. It's called the Lock-N-Load headspace gage and it works off your calipers. What you will discover when using gages is that not all brass gets resized the same despite having been run through the same die set-up. Mixing brands of shell holders and dies can create tolerance stacking, sometimes to the edge of being unusable. I bump my semi-auto ammo back -.004" from it's fired measurement, basically returning it to SAAMI minimum headspace dimension. This allows me to use my reloads in any rifle. Since once fired Lake City surplus brass costs me around $70.00 per thousand I'm not worried about case life. If I load them 2 times the cost the same as my primers. If you decide to simply follow the die directions you may or may not have issues. Most people run the ram to the top, screw the die down until it's touching the shell holder you intend to use, them turn the die another 1/12 to 1/10 rotation more and call it good. This will allow for maximum shoulder set-back for your die and shell holder used in combination. If you switch shell holders, especially if you switch brands when using shell holders, your adjustment may need to be tuned. Headspace gages eliminate guesswork. They give you an actual measurement that you can work with. You are no longer running blind. It is one of my top three favorite reloading tools. The others being power three-way trimmers and Harrell's Precision powder measures. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 10:57:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys hello, and hi Dryflash3 ok, so I am moving on, I bought the components, not online but got it in a local shop. OK so here are my next questions, because I am not quite sure about some steps. 1) Here is all I got, a new brass bought from shop, 8lb of cfe-223, Rem 7 1/2 SR primers, and Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT, as you can see it also says "with cannelure"! I hope it's ok. Correct bullets. http://i.imgur.com/5clVpMe.jpg 2) My Lyman 50 and ABCs of reloading are on the way, but in order to get going I also bought kindle version of Hornadys Reloading Manual 10th edition and already have it. 3) In order to divide and conquer for potential troubleshooting I decided to buy a ready made brass, so first, I will be making a round which is for sure processed properly and new, later on I will be processing own brass and cleaning it (and my cleaning equipment havent arrived yet), so I just bought .223 unprimed brass. You still need to size the "new" cases. ("new" means never fired, not ready to load) chamfer and debur case mouth. 4) I already have some issues in terms of what load to put with CFE-223 in Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT w/Cannelure, I looked This thread and someone was reporting to load a 26.1gr load in it and it worked well for him, however i dont think his bullet was "with Cannelure". The problem is, the Hornady Manual says Minimum Load is 24.8gr (I am attaching snapshot from Hornady's manual 10th ed) and the hodgon website deoesnt have data for Hornady bullet but says minimum is 24.8gr for BAR TSX 55gr and 26.1 for SPR SP... now, which load do I go with? Should I just go with START LOAD of Hornady's 10th edition manual as shown in attached image, which is 24.8gr? Or, should I move load up to make it a common denominator and choose 26.1gr as per Hornady's manual's, this way I am also WITHIN the range of Hodgon data? I really need an advice here from you guys because I don't know what to do now. First NEVER get loading data from a post, even if I post it. Always check published data to confirm any load. Why? Typo's happen. Every Hornady 55 gr FMJBT has a cannelure. Do not worry about this. Like I stated previously, BEGIN WITH THE START load. 24.8 grs. Don't over think this. The data page you posted is for all the bullets at the top. Your bullet is there. Forget the rest. http://i.imgur.com/Tom6K82.png http://i.imgur.com/HOI01gq.png |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 11:09:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5) Reading the reloading manual of Hornady 10th ed, and it lists the following cases: 223 Remington, 223 Remington Service Rifle Data, 5.56 NATO. For some reason it says that primer is Winchester WSR for 223 Remington and for 223 Remington Service Rifle and it is just WSR for 5.56 NATO, but I am using Rem 7 1/2 which is listed as a primer for 222 Remingon, so is it ok? You can substitute "like but different components" at the "start" load. Your primers are fine, I would not have told you to get them if they wouldn't work. WSR is a small rifle primer, so is the 7 1/2. I hope you can see the wisdom of "start" loads. 6) How do I check the dimensions of case? I have this Lee Case length Gage would this one work? DO NOT get this. You will not be happy with it, it's a very low end tool. You want a real trimmer. The name is misleading. should I also buy this thing maybe too? You do need a caliper, I would get a different one. You don't need to spend more that $25-$30 as you don't need a machinist quality caliper for reloading. I use the one from Midway. (FA brand) For measuring bullet diameter, case length, loaded round length, called OAL. (over all length) 7) question similar to #6, how do I now measure the assembled cartridge COL (cartridge overall length)? That case gage i guess won't work anymore because it is for case not overall cartridge, am I right? Can you give me link to proper tool for that then? and also... of course I can measure it with above electronic ruler just as well, right? But I assume there should be some gage for assemled cartridge length to make it easy...like insert and read, right? See answer above. They would have answered all of your questions. At least read the front section of the Hornady manual you skipped past. The how to reload section. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 11:16:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hmm..can you tell me what this thing is for? Because when I called to a local shop, a reloader selling guy there told me that it is a waste of money for me after I told him that I am trying just to measure the COL after the bullet is seated, he told me that I can just do it with electronic caliper. So what exactly is that lock-n-load gage is for? what is it doing beyond measuring COL? Do I really need it? So does it mean that I do not need overall cartridge gage? can you give more info on this? Measure OAL will not be an issue using 55 gr FMJBT's and seating bullet to mid cannelure. With correctly trimmed cases the OAL will be 2.20. (just like it says in the data) Max mag length is 2.260, you will be a long way from there if you trim/seat bullets correctly. You were given correct info for what you told the guy. But he doesn't know how to use the Hornady headspace gauge, so doesn't understand it and told you that you don't need it. You will find folks in stores are very limited in reloading knowledge. |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 3:57:16 AM EDT
[#34]
ok thanks for answers Dryflash3! I kinda feel I'm not ready to just do it yet.
I'll be back soon after some reading with more questions. |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 4:52:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Yes you will benefit greatly from some basic knowledge.
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Posted: 7/2/2017 7:19:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys hello, and hi Dryflash3 ok, so I am moving on, I bought the components, not online but got it in a local shop. OK so here are my next questions, because I am not quite sure about some steps. 1) Here is all I got, a new brass bought from shop, 8lb of cfe-223, Rem 7 1/2 SR primers, and Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT, as you can see it also says "with cannelure"! I hope it's ok. http://i.imgur.com/5clVpMe.jpg 2) My Lyman 50 and ABCs of reloading are on the way, but in order to get going I also bought kindle version of Hornadys Reloading Manual 10th edition and already have it. 3) In order to divide and conquer for potential troubleshooting I decided to buy a ready made brass, so first, I will be making a round which is for sure processed properly and new, later on I will be processing own brass and cleaning it (and my cleaning equipment havent arrived yet), so I just bought .223 unprimed brass. 4) I already have some issues in terms of what load to put with CFE-223 in Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT w/Cannelure, I looked This thread and someone was reporting to load a 26.1gr load in it and it worked well for him, however i dont think his bullet was "with Cannelure". The problem is, the Hornady Manual says Minimum Load is 24.8gr (I am attaching snapshot from Hornady's manual 10th ed) and the hodgon website deoesnt have data for Hornady bullet but says minimum is 24.8gr for BAR TSX 55gr and 26.1 for SPR SP... now, which load do I go with? Should I just go with START LOAD of Hornady's 10th edition manual as shown in attached image, which is 24.8gr? Or, should I move load up to make it a common denominator and choose 26.1gr as per Hornady's manual's, this way I am also WITHIN the range of Hodgon data? I really need an advice here from you guys because I don't know what to do now. http://i.imgur.com/Tom6K82.png http://i.imgur.com/HOI01gq.png |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 8:36:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Best advice I can give outside of what has already been given, is to find an experienced reloader in your area to go through the basics with you.
You can learn a lot from books and from advice from the crew here, but nothing beats hands on experience. You can not really tell someone how a primer should feel seating or how it should feel when you are adjusting your crimp die, etc...... |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 11:44:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Dryflash3, reading is in progress, meanwhile another quick question, do I need to purchase this lock n load curved OAL gauge as well?
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Posted: 7/3/2017 10:36:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dryflash3, reading is in progress, meanwhile another quick question, do I need to purchase this lock n load curved OAL gauge as well? AR's have very long chambers and you can't seat bullets to "contact" the rifling and stay below 2.260 which is max mag length. Doesn't matter any way as mag length loads shoot very accurate. All of my loads with longer bullets (62 grs and up) are seated to 2.250. That puts me below max mag length because bullets will vary in length. With a 55 gr FMJBT Hornady bullet seated correctly (seated to mid cannelure) in a properly trimmed case (trimmed to 1.750 and deburred and chamfered) your OAL will come out at 2.20. Well below max mag length. No you will no get better accuracy seating this bullet "long". All you do is decrease neck tension, which is not what you want. That is why I started you with bullet, very easy to load and lots of stuff to not worry about. So don't get this tool until you branch out to loading for bolt actions where you can seat bullets "long" and get good results with this technique. |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 2:14:18 PM EDT
[#40]
dryflash3, alright, got it, also I think you mentioned that I need a proper trimming tool, not the Lee thing I showed before. So can you recommend some electric good and not expensive tool?
How about This Hornady Lock N Load Case Prep Trio is it a good idea to get this one for me? |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 3:05:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dryflash3, alright, got it, also I think you mentioned that I need a proper trimming tool, not the Lee thing I showed before. So can you recommend some electric good and not expensive tool? How about This Hornady Lock N Load Case Prep Trio is it a good idea to get this one for me? Also look at the Lyman and FA tool. These are all vertical tools. When you use these tools you press down on them with the case. I don't understand the horizontal Hornady tool. Maybe they were trying to be different. Trimmer, first decide if you want a lathe type trimmer that with a shellholder and pilot change will do any caliber, about $120 for the RCBS for the kit. Many other brands to consider also, but I have the RCBS and know it. Advantage is you can get a 3 way cutter. (look it up). Disadvantage is it's slow. Or a Single cartridge trimmer, The best is the Giraud, about $100. The Giraud trims, deburrs, and chamfers all at once. (just like the RCBS 3-way) Other brands out there. Most trim only, no debur. Advantage, fast. Disadvantage is the price. These tools get chucked in a small drill press or a hand drill to power them. |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 9:30:19 PM EDT
[#42]
oh, trim+chamfer+deburr sounds really great, so, I am looking at this Giraud Tri Way Trimmer and the thing is, I only see .223/.308/300 win mag, for now I am doing .223 of course so it would be OK for me.. but if I buy this tool and lets say in future want to do 6.5 then it means I will have to invest in another tool again?
Or? |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 10:40:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh, trim+chamfer+deburr sounds really great, so, I am looking at this Giraud Tri Way Trimmer and the thing is, I only see .223/.308/300 win mag, for now I am doing .223 of course so it would be OK for me.. but if I buy this tool and lets say in future want to do 6.5 then it means I will have to invest in another tool again? Or? All the lessor trimmers in this category are the same way. By lessor I mean they don't debur and chamfer like the Giraud. Giraud does make the "Giraud trimmer" which you change inserts to change calibers. I saved a long time to get one when they were $350 and 2 months wait. Great trimmer. They have gone up in price since then. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 12:51:13 AM EDT
[#44]
dryflash3,
in that Giraud trimmer tool for $100, when I insert the case for trimming/deburring/chamfering, when do I need to remove it? When do I know that It is time to remove it or it will eat a lot of extra brass? How many seconds I hold it against the rotary tool? Or does it have natural stop and there is no way for me to spoil the case by doing too much trimming/deburring/chamfering? |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 1:01:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dryflash3, in that Giraud trimmer tool for $100, when I insert the case for trimming/deburring/chamfering, when do I need to remove it? When do I know that It is time to remove it or it will eat a lot of extra brass? How many seconds I hold it against the rotary tool? Or does it have natural stop and there is no way for me to spoil the case by doing too much trimming/deburring/chamfering? When the trimming noise stops, rotate case 3/4 of a turn and remove from the trimmer. You adjust the built in stop for the length you want. Once set it stops trimming at the correct length.  Running the Giraud Tri Way Trimmer full speed Notice he is wearing gloves to protect your hand and to get a better grip on the case. |
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