Federal case head seperation on first firing.

Armory » Reloading

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Federal case head seperation on first firing.

Posted: 6/21/2017 4:42:57 AM EDT

So, My Son brought home all the brass he had, some XM 193, some OFBLC Blasting Loads, and a bunch of Federal. Here is one of the Federals after the first firing, all this was new in the box shot by him and some friends.

I was working on getting the bugs out of My case collating set up, and while separating the brass (Yes they mixed the OFB and 2X LC together, with the Federal)

I found it.

I was going to load up a bunch of Federal case, Wolf SRM/WC-844 for Him to take home to shoot, but now I guess I'll have to use some of the 2X LC with H335/#41. I used to save OF Federal for a shoot it and leave it type situation, but not anymore.

Posted: 6/21/2017 6:43:12 AM EDT

[#1]

And that is why I despise Federal brass. Once fired in 45 ACP is too soft.

Posted: 6/21/2017 8:12:20 AM EDT

[#2]

I won't load federal rifle brass.

Their pistol brass is fine.

Posted: 6/21/2017 9:40:41 AM EDT

[#3]

The Photos above should be sent to Federal and Vista Outdoors who I believe owns Federal.

Make them aware of the fact that many in the Shooting Community think their Rifle Brass is garbage and that were not going to purchase anymore of it.

I hope you are posting those photos on other shooting forums.

Posted: 6/21/2017 11:31:12 AM EDT

[#4]

I see all the comments and bad experiences with attempting to reload Federal cases, so I wouldn't argue against that apparently correct assessment.

I am curious, however, if the split case in the OP's pic might not also indicate some kind of chamber issue in the gun in which it was fired. In my limited exposure to this issue, doesn't a loose chamber contribute to brass splitting at this location?...especially in .223/5.56? Federal brass or not, I'm wondering if this instance might not indicate another problem that needs to be diagnosed.

Posted: 6/21/2017 12:05:47 PM EDT

[#5]

I'm not a fan of Federal rifle brass but confirm a couple of things:

- This is all once fired brass that he shot and picked up.

- The piece is question isn't a stray piece he picked up off the range....?

- You looked carefully at this piece and it's once-fired?

- The headstamp?

Posted: 6/21/2017 1:07:15 PM EDT

[#6]

What is the purpose of that "case collating box"? What do you think it does for you?

Posted: 6/21/2017 1:24:15 PM EDT

[#7]

I've seen this exact same thing posted several times over the years with different brands of brass.

This is like the "factory loaded dud" it happens.

But since this one was a Federal we bring out all Federal bashers.

Motor

Posted: 6/21/2017 1:40:56 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm not a fan of Federal rifle brass but confirm a couple of things:

- This is all once fired brass that he shot and picked up.

- The piece is question isn't a stray piece he picked up off the range....?

- You looked carefully at this piece and it's once-fired?

- The headstamp?

View Quote

I'll have to call him tonite.

But, yes He did tell me that they bought some AE, shot it at a friend's house and picked it up.

Stray, possible.

No date on the headstamp, but a crimp ring around the primer and most of this brass was harder to de-prime, like crimped is.

This gun is in good working shape, his friend has a MP-15 that is relatively new. When My Son came home a week or two ago, We installed a new rail on it, and checked it for headspace with My PTG gauges, and I cleaned and inspected the barrel before re-install. Then We went up to the range and shot a lot of LC Blasting loads, all that brass is fine.

I have not yet loaded FC, I always clean it, prep it and toss it into a BIG bin. Have never had to dig into it as of yet, I have a lot of prepped LC from the autodrive days.

No other brass was damaged in this amount that was brought to me.

Posted: 6/21/2017 1:50:08 PM EDT

[#9]

I've experienced this and split case necks with IVI (Canadian military) 7.62x51mm brass.

Double check your resizing operation to insure you aren't bumping the shoulders back more than .003" to .004" from their fired measurement.

I will reload Federal 5.56mm brass once and then I recycle. Their nickel plated seems to do better.

Posted: 6/21/2017 1:52:24 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
What is the purpose of that "case collating box"?

What do you think it does for you?

View Quote

It catches all the brass base down, then I take the other part and flip it over so that it is all base up. This way I can inspect all the case mouths easily, as well as the bases, plus I can sort brass by headstamp.

I do not think it does anything for me, I KNOW what it does for me. It makes sorting brass MUCH easier for Me. I'm working on getting My final dimensions worked out, going to have some sheetmetal pans bent up to replace the cardboard boxes and "Flipper" trays.

And yes, you might think it is silly, but try to sort a bucket or two of brass with numb fingers, You'll be automating every process you can as well.

Posted: 6/21/2017 2:29:05 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
And yes, you might think it is silly,...

View Quote

I don't think it's silly, I just wanted to know what it was for and why you do it.

You sort your brass. It is your sorter. It is actually a good idea for that, especially the flippable aspect of it, kind of like a giant primer flip tray for brass.

I did not understand what is was about because I don't sort my brass other than to separate my Winchester cases from all other cases.

Also, I don't have buckets of brass. I bring home what I fired and maybe some assorted "range brass" if there's a bunch in a convenient pile in cartridges I use.

Well, thanks for explaining that. It's a cool thing.

Posted: 6/21/2017 3:33:20 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've experienced this and split case necks with IVI (Canadian military) 7.62x51mm brass.

Double check your resizing operation to insure you aren't bumping the shoulders back more than .003" to .004" from their fired measurement.

I will reload Federal 5.56mm brass once and then I recycle. Their nickel plated seems to do better.

View Quote

bp, I may have misread the original post, but wasn't this brand new factory brass from some factory Federal AE loads out-of-the-box? Dave, can you clarify again? If reloads, my earlier statement/question may not apply.

Posted: 6/21/2017 5:27:24 PM EDT

[#13]

The FC brass was brand new, they bought it that day.

He also had some of the reloaded LC and new XM 193.

Posted: 6/21/2017 6:13:19 PM EDT

[#14]

It would be interesting to examine the inside of that casing with a bore scope.

You would very likely be able to see the manufacturing defect that caused it to fail.

If in fact it is a manufacturing defect which very likely it was.

Motor

Posted: 6/21/2017 6:45:26 PM EDT

[#15]

I got one of those cheap little "borescopes" that plug into your phone.

I'll see if I can look in there and record it and post to My YouTube account.

Posted: 6/21/2017 7:05:30 PM EDT

[#16]

I've only had one of those and it was 1xlc case in 223.

I have it on my key chain. I think 1098cya was with me that day.

Posted: 6/21/2017 8:03:30 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
So, My Son brought home all the brass he had, some XM 193, some OFBLC Blasting Loads, and a bunch of Federal. Here is one of the Federals after the first firing, all this was new in the box shot by him and some friends.

http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327759/20170620-235259-235414.jpg
http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327759/20170620-235317-235413.jpg

I was working on getting the bugs out of My case collating set up, and while separating the brass (Yes they mixed the OFB and 2X LC together, with the Federal)

I found it.

http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327759/CASES-235412.jpg

I was going to load up a bunch of Federal case, Wolf SRM/WC-844 for Him to take home to shoot, but now I guess I'll have to use some of the 2X LC with H335/#41. I used to save OF Federal for a shoot it and leave it type situation, but not anymore.

View Quote

I don't think it is a problem with the brass, it is a problem with the brass volume. IIRC Federal brass is thicker than Rem or Win, you can't use the same load in both cases. Ask me how I know this.

Posted: 6/21/2017 9:04:54 PM EDT

[#18]

OK, just to restate it for all those who do not read the whole post.

The FEDERAL brass was purchased as new ammunition. The black label American Eagle, I believe.

I have NOT yet ever loaded any FC brass. I just de-cap it and tumble it and stash it away.

Posted: 6/22/2017 2:48:57 AM EDT

[#19]

I had some 308 Gold Metal Match once fired brass that was separating or starting to separate after the second firing. It was only happening to the Federal brass not LC or Hor. I cut several Fed cases in half and noticed that the thick part (web?) thinned out sooner as it went up the case wall....right where it began to show signs of separation on the outside.

Cut one in half and see if yours are the same.

Now I load Fed cases one time only.

AR15-SBR

Posted: 6/22/2017 5:54:12 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
OK, just to restate it for all those who do not read the whole post.

The FEDERAL brass was purchased as new ammunition. The black label American Eagle, I believe.

I have NOT yet ever loaded any FC brass. I just de-cap it and tumble it and stash it away.

View Quote

Sorry, I had my display set on larger font and "all this was new in the box shot by him and some friends." was not in view.
I have been shooting Federal for years with no issue. Could be a production line error.

Posted: 6/22/2017 9:50:34 AM EDT

[#21]

That definitely is unusual but that's why we inspect our brass right?

I use Federal 223 brass quite frequently for my hoser 3gun loads that only go out to like 25-40 yards on pistol bays. No trimming needed and I just use up a bunch of cheap pulls I got back in the last scare. I sharpie them and don't bother reloading them again if I happen to pick my own brass back up. Granted for the time involved I'd rather shoot Wolf on those stages but the range doesn't allow any bi-metal projectiles and it's still cheaper per rd.

Rest of my loads are all non FC, I just sort the FC out into the hoser bin.

Posted: 6/22/2017 7:34:09 PM EDT

[#22]

I've had that happen with new LC on a few occasions too.
I bet if you read the fine print on the box of Federal ammo, nowhere on it says it's also good for reloading.

Posted: 6/22/2017 11:31:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've had that happen with new LC on a few occasions too.
I bet if you read the fine print on the box of Federal ammo, nowhere on it says it's also good for reloading.

View Quote

They don't have to put that on the box, I already know that.

Posted: 6/23/2017 12:36:32 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've had that happen with new LC on a few occasions too.
I bet if you read the fine print on the box of Federal ammo, nowhere on it says it's also good for reloading.

View Quote

I've seen several brands that say, "Reloadable Brass Casing". In this day and age, I'm surprised any corporate attorney would allow their company to say that, let alone print it on the box.

Posted: 6/24/2017 8:57:17 AM EDT

[#25]

About a year ago a friend came over and asked me if I recycle brass cases, I said yes, then he handed me a quart ziplock bag full of brass. I took a quick look through and saw many had cracks right where yours are. I dumped them out on my bench and saw ALL of them were cracked.

Also, they were all Federal .308 cases. I asked him about it and he said he had been saving them up for a few months and they were all fired in his M1A. Only Federal brand brass did this. Everything else he shot was fine. About 8 out of every 20 round mag cracked like this.

I went around the bench measuring H.S. on all the loaded factory Federal rifle cases I have in various calibers and comparing them to other brands. The Federals were all shorter by .003 - .007''. That doesn't sound like much but when you measure your fired cases and they are .012'' longer, add that to the 3-7 thou and you get head seperations. The brass just can't stretch that extra 3-7 thousandths that Federal sizes their cases at. Plus, I'm sure their brass is thinner. They are well known for having thin case webs, why would the rest of the case be any different?

I think it's cracking from excessive head space.

Posted: 6/25/2017 11:52:55 AM EDT

[#26]

It happens, I had a new never fired Winchester .308 case separate on it first firing with a mild hand load several years ago.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Federal case head seperation on first firing.

Armory » Reloading

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us