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Posted: 2/17/2017 12:51:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm really not sure what your question is. Normally a safe compressed load will be "noted" as such in the data reference.
Very often the amount of compression can be reduced by using a drop tube. If I was using "normal" brass and a reputable data source I wouldn't worry about compression. Another thing to consider is what type of power you are using. Some powder's are a lot more fluffy than others and compress more easily. This may even be something noted in the powder's written description found either in a reference manual or by the manufacturer. Motor |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 1:13:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Longer drop tube when filling.
You can also vibrate each round briefly. Use a vibrating type pad sander upside down and clamped in place. Lightly hold each case to the sanding pad for about 5 to 10 seconds usually does the job. It can slow you down enough to make choosing another powder look attractive. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 1:19:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm really not sure what your question is. Normally a safe compressed load will be "noted" as such in the data reference. Very often the amount of compression can be reduced by using a drop tube. If I was using "normal" brass and a reputable data source I wouldn't worry about compression. Another thing to consider is what type of power you are using. Some powder's are a lot more fluffy than others and compress more easily. This may even be something noted in the powder's written description found either in a reference manual or by the manufacturer. Motor It's a specific 9mms load I've been working with on and off for some time I've never been able to fit even near max load with the listed components without deforming the bullets. I was wondering if there was a way to "pre compress" the powder before seating to help with this. I'm also working on a custom seating plug but every little bit helps I saw a thread somewhere a while back where the guy was compressing in stages but can't find it anymore I was also considering using magnum primers and starting over working the load up. But I'd prefer to stick with the exact components listed |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 1:42:18 PM EDT
[#4]
A compressed load is fine for slower type extruded powders. I would try a different powder if it's serious crunch. There is no reason to load a heavily compressed powder charge even if it is safe and accurate. I have experienced bullets backing out over time on compressed loads, loads that were only slightly compressed. They grew in length because of the pressure of the compressed powder charge against the base of the bullet.
Higher neck tension, a lower powder charge or both were needed to avoid this. Never compress a ball powder, they are not compressed friendly. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 1:44:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Drop tube for rifle rounds.
Just sounds like a bad idea in 9mm. Going for Major? What powder, amount, bullet? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 2:48:13 PM EDT
[#6]
If I loaded max loads with Blue Dot, it would be compressed. As it is, I load 7.0 grains with a 115 blue bullet and it's somewhat compressed. The powder is only an 1/8" down from the case mouth, so it has to be compressing. A max load would probably be full to the case mouth.
I shelved my plans for a Lyman M die for 9mm because it would be pre-compressing the powder. I have no idea how much would stick to the expander (if any) and either fall off or transfer to the next case, but I'd think an M die would do it for you if you want to try it. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I loaded max loads with Blue Dot, it would be compressed. As it is, I load 7.0 grains with a 115 blue bullet and it's somewhat compressed. The powder is only an 1/8" down from the case mouth, so it has to be compressing. A max load would probably be full to the case mouth. I shelved my plans for a Lyman M die for 9mm because it would be pre-compressing the powder. I have no idea how much would stick to the expander (if any) and either fall off or transfer to the next case, but I'd think an M die would do it for you if you want to try it. I worked up to 8.0 grs Blue dot with a 115 gr XTP, yes that's a compressed load. No special technique, drop powder with belled cases in a loading block, start bullet, then seat, crimp. Not a load for a progressive press, as powder would spill everywhere when charged case was advanced. This load is a full power load, very accurate out of my CZ, and yes has some muzzle flash. Be sure to work up if you try this load. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I loaded max loads with Blue Dot, it would be compressed. As it is, I load 7.0 grains with a 115 blue bullet and it's somewhat compressed. The powder is only an 1/8" down from the case mouth, so it has to be compressing. A max load would probably be full to the case mouth. I shelved my plans for a Lyman M die for 9mm because it would be pre-compressing the powder. I have no idea how much would stick to the expander (if any) and either fall off or transfer to the next case, but I'd think an M die would do it for you if you want to try it. Why would you ever place an M die after loading powder? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:52:20 PM EDT
[#9]
I know they make "compression" dies for black powder. I have read it's suggested you use them, instead of the bullet.
I forget where I read it. You might be able to die one for .38? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 4:36:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know they make "compression" dies for black powder. I have read it's suggested you use them, instead of the bullet. I forget where I read it. You might be able to die one for .38? I made one to use in .50-70 a long time ago. I had enough brass scraps around to make the entire thing including the die body. It worked so well I made another for .45-70 It is just one of those things that still makes me pause. Taking a shell full of BP and shoving into a die with a center 'post' to compress the powder while providing support to avoid bulging the shell. The post also has a slight taper on it to flare the case mouth for seating lead. Very similar to an 'M' die. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 5:30:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you ever place an M die after loading powder? I wouldn't and haven't. But the OP might want to since he was wanting to compress the powder before the bullet was seated. I'm not saying put the stem down as far as you would to expand the case mouth, but enough to compress the powder down so that's not putting extra stress on the back of the bullet when it's seated. Just something I thought of that was already available that could be used to do that. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 12:15:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drop tube for rifle rounds. Just sounds like a bad idea in 9mm. Going for Major? What powder, amount, bullet? It's a VV load for 3N38 and a 147gr XTP It's so close to fitting but not at the listed c.o.a.l At 1.150" it won't chamber in my gun either I can't get much powder in with the Xtreme 165gr plated bullets either |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 3:15:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Have you tried different brands of brass? Have you tried the same brass as the data used?
BTW: There are plenty of loads listed in reliable published data sources that use ball type powder compressed. Most I've seen are rifle loads but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there isn't some in pistol too. Heck anyone shooting near max with H-335 and 55gr bullet in .223 is using a ball powder compressed. Which is probably 99.5% of us. Where do guys come up with this stuff. Sorry but ball powders work best at high % case fill and not so well with low. Compressed is about as high % as you can get and they work great there. The high density and small granule size doesn't allow for a lot of compression but you still have some with many loads. Motor |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 6:41:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you tried different brands of brass? Have you tried the same brass as the data used? BTW: There are plenty of loads listed in reliable published data sources that use ball type powder compressed. Most I've seen are rifle loads but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there isn't some in pistol too. Heck anyone shooting near max with H-335 and 55gr bullet in .223 is using a ball powder compressed. Which is probably 99.5% of us. Where do guys come up with this stuff. Sorry but ball powders work best at high % case fill and not so well with low. Compressed is about as high % as you can get and they work great there. The high density and small granule size doesn't allow for a lot of compression but you still have some with many loads. Motor I think I'll give the custom seating stem a try. I have an epoxy that comes in a putty form that works well for it. Worst case I'm out a seating stem |
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