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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:22:16 PM EDT
[#1]
24.0 Varget at magazine length.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:33:55 PM EDT
[#2]
LC prepped brass
Rem 7 1/2 primer 23.2gr XBR 8208 Such a fine, sweet load. 
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:37:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I just bought a box of 77 grain TMK's to hand load. I've been reading that it is hard to get them up to the same velocity as the SMK due to the length of the projectile taking up space for powder. does anyone have any load recipe's that can get the TMK up to SMK speeds? I'm not sure what your version of "SMK speeds" is but out of a 20" SR barrel, I'm easily getting 2700-2800 fps with R15. Mag length. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:40:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Ive been getting 2750 with SMK's
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Posted: 2/13/2017 7:52:25 PM EDT
[#5]
CD,
Here is a link to discussion of TMK at 1000 yards I started last year. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/704971_Creedmoor_Ammunition_77_grain_TMK_at_1_000_yards.html&page=1 The TMK appears to have a G7 of 0.192. The Bryan Litz verified G7 of the SMK is 0.190, so barely different. Ive been shooting it at 600 - 1000 yards for several months now. I'm using 77 grain TMK Creedmoor ammo which is chronographed over 2767 fps from a 20 inch 1:8. It requires about 1/2 more DOPE at 1000 than the std SMK used in the much faster CBC ammo. 37.5 MOA at 1000 as I recall. My only hesitation about standardizing on the TMK is that the ogive is seated past the neck of the brass. Molon made this observation in his initial test. I dont know if it will effect set back in the magaziine or long term weather proofing but it is very noticable. the Creedmoor ammo is very accurate and can routinely turn in 5 x 8 inch ES at 1000 yards. I dont have much experince hunting with the SMK but the 75 grain Hornady does fragment reliably out to 150 yards on coyotes at 2700 fps MV and 200 yards at 2850-2900 fps. The SMK and TMK have higher BC's than the 75 but I do completely trust the Hornady to fragment. Ive shot dozens of coyotes with that bullet. The TMK will of course expand much farther, but if you can live with 150-200 yds the SMK is less expensive and has for all practical purposes, an identical BC at long range. At least it does at 223/556 velocity. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 9:37:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Right on thanks for the link to the thread and the info!
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Posted: 2/14/2017 8:35:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Wrong forum
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Posted: 2/14/2017 8:36:04 AM EDT
[#8]
The Reloading forum is on the Armory board
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Posted: 2/14/2017 9:46:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LC prepped brass Rem 7 1/2 primer 23.2gr XBR 8208 Such a fine, sweet load. I run the same load but with Tula 5.56 primers, 22.6 gr charge shoots just as well too. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 10:47:53 AM EDT
[#10]
IMR 8208XBR is what you're looking for.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 11:06:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I run the same load but with Tula 5.56 primers, 22.6 gr charge shoots just as well too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LC prepped brass Rem 7 1/2 primer 23.2gr XBR 8208 Such a fine, sweet load. I run the same load but with Tula 5.56 primers, 22.6 gr charge shoots just as well too. Same here except CCI 400 primers and 23.1gr 8208 XBR. I know there is some concern with these bullets and how long they are. Ive shot 300 of them, and plan on buying more when I have time to reload them. No issues with setback of anything like that. Load them out as long as you can, I think Im at 2.263 in my Lancer mags, which is tips of the bullets just touching the front side of the mag. Ive put up some stellar groups with these bullets with multiple 5 shot groups at or under .5". If I spent more time on case prep, I could probably shrink these groups even further. Be a great candidate for MOA All Day contest. I have not tested the 69gr variants though, as I just havent had the time. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 4:02:39 PM EDT
[#12]
CCI 400 primers are too thin for 5.56.
See http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php What does all this mean to the reloader?
- Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at moderate pressures(40,000 psi) should use CCI 400, Federal 200, Rem 6 1/2, or Win SR. Such cases include 22 CCM, 22 Hornet and the 218 Bee. These primers are also used in heavy handguns such as the 9mm., 357, etc. Other cases that use the small rifle primer can use the above primers only if moderate loads are used. Keep to the lower end of reloading recommendations. - Cases that utilize Small Rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2. 
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Posted: 2/14/2017 4:03:18 PM EDT
[#13]
This is my experience with CCI 400 primers at 5.56 pressure.
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Posted: 2/14/2017 10:09:44 PM EDT
[#14]
The 77 TMK is a great bullet at mag length, better still if you get the right magazine. Stainless steel ASC mags will allow 2.316 or so. BC is about .202 G7 re Litz
Right beside me is a CProducts SS mag with a Nosler RDF 70 gr bullets in a dummy round @ 2.31. If the .410 + G1 BC pans out, this bullet will be a beast and will work in a 1/9" (Nosler). Bought Some Cosmetic blems from SPS, they will still shoot MOA (1/9" CZ). I intend to get some first runs to work out in a couple of guns. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 4:03:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Billy,
I have not been able to find anywhere that Mr. Litz published G7 for 77 grain TMK. My data from 600-1000, especially 1000, indicates 0.192 G7 using JBM software. Adding correct temperature and altitude predicted 37.6 MOA DOPE for 1000 and I was barely low with 37.5 MOA. Mr. Litz measures velocity loss at 300 yards as I recall. I wonder if the TMK tip is deforming at longer range? The Nosler should not have that problem since it is basically a "pointed" bullet, but I have not tried them. If you get 69 grain velocity with them at that BC it will be the bomb. I am happy with the SMK and TMK at velocity and apparent G7 I am getting but anything to shorten time of flight and windage would be welcome. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 5:05:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 77 TMK is a great bullet at mag length, better still if you get the right magazine. Stainless steel ASC mags will allow 2.316 or so. BC is about .202 G7 re Litz Right beside me is a CProducts SS mag with a Nosler RDF 70 gr bullets in a dummy round @ 2.31. If the .410 + G1 BC pans out, this bullet will be a beast and will work in a 1/9" (Nosler). Bought Some Cosmetic blems from SPS, they will still shoot MOA (1/9" CZ). I intend to get some first runs to work out in a couple of guns. Good info. I may have to pick a couple of these up. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 5:07:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my experience with CCI 400 primers at 5.56 pressure. Load data? Ive run some really hot loads with CCI 400s in a 5.56 chambered barrel. Had some mild primer flattening, but thats it. Accuracy on the other hand is what Im after, and the most accurate load was below my top charge. Ive also used 200s in my 308 with some very stout loads, no issues there either. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 9:09:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
24.0 Varget at magazine length. This |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 10:12:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info. I may have to pick a couple of these up. Shoot me an IM, I am thinking about ordering some 20 round ASC mags. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 10:47:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
24.0 Varget at magazine length. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 10:56:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Billy, I have not been able to find anywhere that Mr. Litz published G7 for 77 grain TMK. My data from 600-1000, especially 1000, indicates 0.192 G7 using JBM software. Adding correct temperature and altitude predicted 37.6 MOA DOPE for 1000 and I was barely low with 37.5 MOA. Mr. Litz measures velocity loss at 300 yards as I recall. I wonder if the TMK tip is deforming at longer range? The Nosler should not have that problem since it is basically a "pointed" bullet, but I have not tried them. If you get 69 grain velocity with them at that BC it will be the bomb. I am happy with the SMK and TMK at velocity and apparent G7 I am getting but anything to shorten time of flight and windage would be welcome. Number came from 2nd edition Litz Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets .202 G7 With a variance of 0.007. A lot of things can cause BC to vary, so no surprise on your results being different. I would agree the BC on the 77 TMK is not as hyped, but MR performance (600 yards) is still very good. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 2:35:13 PM EDT
[#22]
I agree with WEG about primer thickness.
I ruined an AR bolt face with Remington 6 1/2 primers. They blew out at almost any pressure. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 5:15:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Am I reading this right? Some of you are able to make hits at 1000 yards with the 77gr TMK? I take it these are staying pretty balanced through the transonic range?
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Posted: 2/16/2017 6:35:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LC prepped brass Rem 7 1/2 primer 23.2gr XBR 8208 Such a fine, sweet load. Just finished 50 rds. of the same load, can't wait for tomorrow to try them out. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 11:08:59 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 2/16/2017 11:11:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I reading this right? Some of you are able to make hits at 1000 yards with the 77gr TMK? I take it these are staying pretty balanced through the transonic range? I answered this in the other thread.............. Yes. I've been doing it. Next time out............ pictures of my results are mandatory! I'm at 5200ft though................ |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 11:34:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my experience with CCI 400 primers at 5.56 pressure. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/reloading/piercedprimer-CCI400-4.jpg As I researched load info and experiences I decided anything I feed my AR will have the #41 primer. It's letting me get very close to 1 MOA loads and I'd bet whatever tiny accuracy difference primers make is beyond my ability to shoot. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 2:08:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I answered this in the other thread.............. Yes. I've been doing it. Next time out............ pictures of my results are mandatory! I'm at 5200ft though................ Being that I'm around 100ft asl 1000 yards is still going to be unobtainium for me 
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Posted: 2/17/2017 10:26:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I reading this right? Some of you are able to make hits at 1000 yards with the 77gr TMK? I take it these are staying pretty balanced through the transonic range? Yes and somewhat easy with the right gear. As long as the wind is steady and under 10mph, I've been able to achieve a 70% hit rate on a 18x30 steel target at 1096 yds @ 2,600' elevation. We've even gone to 1190yds, but the hit rate dropped to about 50%. I'm using a 16" Larue Steath barrel with a 2.5-10x44 Vortex PST, 20 MOA scope base, scope level, Atlas bipod, rear bag and shooting prone. This is using my worked up load with 77gr TMK's, LC 14' brass, 23.5gr 8208XBR, CCI 400's and loaded to 2.255". Yes the primers are flat, but 400's flatten pretty easy. I have tons of LC brass so I load them 3 times and toss them in the scrap brass bucket. I'll also add that I've started loading this ammo on a Dillon 550B using a Forster micrometer die in station 4 and just slightly seating the bullet in station 3. I'm just got lazy one day and decided to load my precision rounds on the 550 vs the RCBS SS press. To my surprise it did well enough for me to make it standard practice. As always YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 11:21:21 PM EDT
[#31]
My goal with this rifle was to see how far I could personally push the AR-15 with the 77gr TMK, all the while working on my fundamentals for cheap when I'm not shooting the 260 Rem AR-10. I really thought the scope was going to be the limiting factor, but the 2.5-10 PST turned out to be very clear at distance. I've tried several other brands of factory 69gr and 77gr ammo and nothing comes even close to the consistency of hand loaded ammo using these bullets.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 7:38:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kinda velocity are you getting with that load? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
24.0 Varget at magazine length. 
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Posted: 2/18/2017 7:49:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Friend of mine shoots 24.5 grains without any issues.
The extra 0.3 grains only give about an extra 30 FPS. I'm happy with 24.2, because primers look fine. The closer you get to the ceiling, the more likely you will have "that one round" that is extra hot, and there goes the primer into your trigger on the 300 yard line during a Regional match. I've been through that. I like to hedge my bets against that sort of drama. My brass gets three firings, and then recycle. I'm not interested to see the outside limit how many firings I can get. I'll stick with the number of firings I can get, and still have 100% confidence in my ammo in every situation. I don't load "practice-only" ammo any more. If the ammo isn't A+ stuff, I don't have time for it on the range, or room to store it in my ammo hoard. I've been accumulating ammo since Richard Nixon was president. My ammo situation is a constant management issue. No more some-of-this and some-of-that ammo. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Load data? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is my experience with CCI 400 primers at 5.56 pressure. (pimpled/blanked primer) Load data? 23.5 N135 with moly-koted 80 SMK loaded to 2.400" (exceeds magazine length, but not "jammed) Krieger service rifle barrel. Firing temperature ~90 degrees. I have comparison-tested ammo loaded with CCI400 and CCI450. No difference whatsoever in chronograph velocity. Same test with Remington and Winchester standard-vs-magnum small rifle primer was same reslut (no difference other than condition of spent primer). You may find this snipped from the Quickload users manual to be of interest. While I may be your garden-variety goober on the internet, the guys who write the manual for the Quickload program are vetted. 
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Posted: 2/22/2017 11:31:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
23.5 N135 with moly-koted 80 SMK loaded to 2.400" (exceeds magazine length, but not "jammed) Krieger service rifle barrel. Firing temperature ~90 degrees. I have comparison-tested ammo loaded with CCI400 and CCI450. No difference whatsoever in chronograph velocity. Same test with Remington and Winchester standard-vs-magnum small rifle primer was same reslut (no difference other than condition of spent primer). You may find this snipped from the Quickload users manual to be of interest. While I may be your garden-variety goober on the internet, the guys who write the manual for the Quickload program are vetted. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/reloading/quickload-primers.jpg Good info and thanks. I would imagine that the 80s being as long as they are are driving up pressure causing the primer to pop. Longest bullets Ive shot are 77gr TMKs at 2.260, with a compressed load of 8208 XBR, no issues for me. Was about 23.7gr IIRC, but the sweet spot for me is 23.1 for that bullet and powder combo. |
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