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Posted: 1/5/2017 1:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jaqufrost]
Since I got the last thread locked, I thought I would restart a new thread with the load data others have used from that thread and any other data I come across. As Dryflash reminded us in the last thread, this is not a "where to find thread" so please don't post links on where to find components.
The Data: Klienman reports 2800FPS with 26.5gr of CFE223, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel. OAL=2.25. - no pressure signs. Klienman reports 2870FPS with 27.0gr of CFE223, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel. OAL=2.25. - no pressure signs. CTRob65 reports 2832FPS with 25.9gr of TAC, CCI #41 primers and a 16" barrel. OAL=2.26. - no pressure signs. CTRob65 reports 2897FPS with 27.2gr of CFE223, CCI #41 primers and a 16" barrel. OAL=2.25. - ejector swipes and some primer flattening. Stump70 reports 2800FPS with 24.0gr of 8208 XBR, unk primer, unk barrel, unk length. - ejector swipes RCC1 reports 2892FPS with 26.5gr CFE223, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. RCC1 reports 2945FPS with 27.0gr CFE223, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. RCC1 reports 2982FPS with 27.5gr CFE223, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. RCC1 reports 2771FPS with 24.0gr 8208 XBR, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. RCC1 reports 2810FPS with 24.5gr 8208 XBR, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. RCC1 reports 2846FPS with 25.0gr 8208 XBR, CCI#400 primers and a 16" barrel (suppressed). OAL=2.26. If you have a load your using for M855A1, post it up and I'll add it above. |
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Posted: 1/5/2017 1:40:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Feel free to go to the locked thread and copy/paste into a post in this thread with any loading data you want in this thread.
If this thread "takes off" I will set the archive toggle to keep this thread out of the archives. |
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Posted: 1/5/2017 9:14:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Feel free to go to the locked thread and copy/paste into a post in this thread with any loading data you want in this thread. If this thread "takes off" I will set the archive toggle to keep this thread out of the archives. I hope it does, I just got a new supply of these and am more comfortable experimenting some more. If it warms up a bit I will run some new loads and let you all know how it went. I would also like to hear some of your guys experiences. |
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Posted: 1/5/2017 9:35:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm just dying to buy a 100 of these for some reason.
I just can't justify it in my mind. I think it would be kinda cool to have some, but load work up would use up 25% of them I'd think. |
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Posted: 1/6/2017 5:04:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Screw it, you only live once.
I ordered 100 of the blems.
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Posted: 1/6/2017 10:45:19 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm interested in this info also.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2017 6:23:03 PM EDT
[#6]
One more interested
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2017 11:41:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Wound channel on YouTube used a chronograph with a 16 inch barrel and got a velocity of 2982 from factory m885a1.
Another video from jwg223 showed a dissected charge weight of 25.7 of smp-42 (or whatever the new powder is called). Im wondering what primers were used by Kleinman, Nato primers are hotter. What OAL was also used? |
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Posted: 1/7/2017 11:54:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommyGun:
Wound channel on YouTube used a chronograph with a 16 inch barrel and got a velocity of 2982 from factory m885a1. Another video from jwg223 showed a dissected charge weight of 25.7 of smp-42 (or whatever the new powder is called). Im wondering what primers were used by Kleinman, Nato primers are hotter. What OAL was also used? I'll try and check a few of my factory loads for overall length. Personally I'll probably adjust out from factory if there is any room left in my magazines. |
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Posted: 1/7/2017 12:00:26 PM EDT
[#9]
I thought the new military powder was CFE223? Copper fouling eraser to counteract the pure copper projectile?
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Posted: 1/7/2017 12:14:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Powder weight video, 25.7gr SMP-42.
 M855A1 Charge Weight Chrono video, 2982f/ps.  Failed To Load Title Super slow motion Ballistic gel video.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 1/7/2017 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommyGun:
Wound channel on YouTube used a chronograph with a 16 inch barrel and got a velocity of 2982 from factory m885a1. Another video from jwg223 showed a dissected charge weight of 25.7 of smp-42 (or whatever the new powder is called). Im wondering what primers were used by Kleinman, Nato primers are hotter. What OAL was also used? I used CCI 400 primers. |
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Posted: 1/7/2017 2:45:46 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/8/2017 4:52:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Will be launching these through my 16" FTroy tester/don't give a crap if it blows up upper soon haha.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/9/2017 8:29:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PointBlank82]
[#14]
Seems we could maybe use Barnes TTSX Lold Data for 16.5" barrels as a guide? I might pick up a lb of CFE223 for these... are you all using #41 primers? I'm thinking of loading mine in match prepped LC brass with SB Primers. Will seal the bullet and primers too.
TAC might actually be a better powder for these... |
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Posted: 1/9/2017 8:54:00 AM EDT
[#15]
That 855 is wicked.
I also bet it cost .DOD a mint to purchase. The bullet is complicated. |
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Posted: 1/9/2017 3:15:14 PM EDT
[#16]
I thought I would cut-and-paste Kleinman's information into this thread.
Originally posted by Kleinman I got a little over 2,800 FPS with 26.5 grains of CFE223 and the M855A1 bullets. I guess I would add, what primer did you use and what was your OAL? |
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Posted: 1/9/2017 9:30:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I used a CCI 400 primer and the OAL was 2.25 Or 2.248 to be exact. IIRC
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2017 10:10:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChevelleDave:
Powder weight video, 25.7gr SMP-42.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Arw-J66qg
Chrono video, 2982f/ps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IvDPuVuho
Super slow motion Ballistic gel video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4ODh1g4eMLinx for my I potato. |
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Posted: 1/10/2017 12:49:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Got my projectiles. Hopefully I'll have my own numbers to contribute soon.
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Posted: 1/10/2017 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#20]
What kind of ogive do these have?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2017 1:58:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ErikS:
That 855 is wicked. I also bet it cost .DOD a mint to purchase. The bullet is complicated. the also have to pay 11 cents/rnd to Liberty for violating their patent |
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Posted: 1/14/2017 9:50:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Got my projectiles. Hopefully I'll have my own numbers to contribute soon. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57761/80-1484066871697-123059.jpg Any updates? I have been waiting for a nice day and haven't been home a lately. I did however buy some CCI 41 primers for 5.56 today and may build some of those up tonight. |
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Posted: 1/14/2017 10:04:02 PM EDT
[#23]
No updates yet. My son has been sick this weekend. It will probably be a few weeks before I have time to try anything.
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Posted: 1/15/2017 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#24]
I tried some out a few days back, but the results weren't promising.
26.1gr TAC Rem 7 1/2 primers 2.250" no crimp Three rounds grouped 1 1/8" at 50 yards from a 1:7 PSA Premium upper that will cloverleaf 64gr Fusion and IMI M193 at 50yds. No chrono data, but the recoil felt the same as IMI M193 and the ejection was the same also. POI was about 2" lower than the Fusion and IMI. Also loaded was 25.5gr, 25.8gr, 26.4gr (1 1/2" group) and 26.7gr. I did not try the Barnes TTSX listed max charge of 27gr, but there were no pressure indicators so I might try going a little higher. I have some loaded with Varget and CCI #41 primers and will post the info if results are good. I also just received some CFE223 and might try this with CCI if the Varget doesn't show any promise. |
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Posted: 1/16/2017 12:33:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTRob65:
I tried some out a few days back, but the results weren't promising. 26.1gr TAC Rem 7 1/2 primers 2.250" no crimp Three rounds grouped 1 1/8" at 50 yards from a 1:7 PSA Premium upper that will cloverleaf 64gr Fusion and IMI M193 at 50yds. No chrono data, but the recoil felt the same as IMI M193 and the ejection was the same also. POI was about 2" lower than the Fusion and IMI. Also loaded was 25.5gr, 25.8gr, 26.4gr (1 1/2" group) and 26.7gr. I did not try the Barnes TTSX listed max charge of 27gr, but there were no pressure indicators so I might try going a little higher. I have some loaded with Varget and CCI #41 primers and will post the info if results are good. I also just received some CFE223 and might try this with CCI if the Varget doesn't show any promise. Thanks for the info. I will be interested to hear about the CFE223. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 7:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CTRob65]
[#26]
Quick update from my last two outings ...
firearm: PSA Premium upper receiver 1:7 mid-length 16" barrel with MBT and variable power Primary Arms scope. On the 17th I tried the M855A1s with Varget. I loaded 3 rounds each of 25.8gr, 26.1gr and 26.4gr with CCI #41 and a coal of 2.255. Once fired LC '10 brass trimmed to 1.752". Crimped with Lee FCD. The best of those were 26.1gr which yielded a "group" of 3/4" at 50yds. The "group" was two inches lower than factory IMI M193, 64gr Fusions loaded with BLC-2 and 62gr Fusions loaded with H335. The other loads were ridiculous. There was no high pressure signs, but that wasn't surprising since the max charge is considerably more. I have never worked with compressed loads before and I wanted to try these projectiles with CFE223 before compressing the Varget too much. I do not have chrono data for the Varget. Today I tried some loaded with CFE223. Three projectiles were each loaded with 26.2gr, 26.5gr, 26.8gr and 27.0gr with CCI #41 and a coal of 2.250. Once fired LC '10 brass trimmed to 1.752". Crimped with Lee FCD. The best "group" was with 26.5gr. It was a hair over 1/4", but it was also 2" lower than the previously described zero and 1" left. The second best "group" was with 27.0gr. That one was about 1/2" ... still two inches low, but no windage correction needed. 26.2 and 26.8 were again ridiculous at around 3". No pressure signs whatsoever. I have since loaded up another round of 26.5gr for my next trip in which i will have my chronograph. I'll see if my velocities match Kleinman's. Updates to follow ... On edit: changed CFE223 best group from 26.1 to 26.5 |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 8:59:25 PM EDT
[#27]
I'd expect wider spacing on the nodes than 1 gr of CFE 223. Really need chrono data to see how much more speed that .9 gr got you.
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Posted: 1/21/2017 12:30:34 AM EDT
[#28]
No pressure signs with 27gr CFE. Interesting, I still haven't got to try mine yet. I may venture out tomorrow it it isn't raining.
My next range trip will be busy so I want it to be nice out so I can bring the chrono. I will be testing the above loads for M855A1 as well as the same loads with CCI 5.56 primers. I want to "unload" my muzzleloader and make sure my zero was still on after being banged around all season. (Didn't shoot anything) I also need to test some Barnes TTSX 55gr with H335 I have loaded up. |
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Posted: 1/21/2017 8:03:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PointBlank82:
I'd expect wider spacing on the nodes than 1 gr of CFE 223. Really need chrono data to see how much more speed that .9 gr got you. I messed up with the best CFE223 charge. It should have been 26.5 and not 26.1. I went back and edited that section. Sorry for any confusion. |
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Posted: 1/21/2017 3:15:47 PM EDT
[#30]
26.5gr CFE223 chronograph results. One round did not record for whatever reason.
44 degrees and a little foggy. CE Prochrono Digital 2732 2721 2737 2721 2715 2732 2749 2760 2699 Average: 2729fps; ES 61; SD 18 The 1/4" 3 round "group" opened up to a 1" group at 50yds  
Kleinman - What were your groups like? |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 5:01:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I find I shoot better at 100yds.
It slows me down. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/22/2017 5:19:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTRob65:
Quick update from my last two outings ... firearm: PSA Premium upper receiver 1:7 mid-length 16" barrel with MBT and variable power Primary Arms scope. On the 17th I tried the M855A1s with Varget. I loaded 3 rounds each of 25.8gr, 26.1gr and 26.4gr with CCI #41 and a coal of 2.255. Once fired LC '10 brass trimmed to 1.752". Crimped with Lee FCD. The best of those were 26.1gr which yielded a "group" of 3/4" at 50yds. The "group" was two inches lower than factory IMI M193, 64gr Fusions loaded with BLC-2 and 62gr Fusions loaded with H335. The other loads were ridiculous. There was no high pressure signs, but that wasn't surprising since the max charge is considerably more. I have never worked with compressed loads before and I wanted to try these projectiles with CFE223 before compressing the Varget too much. I do not have chrono data for the Varget. Today I tried some loaded with CFE223. Three projectiles were each loaded with 26.2gr, 26.5gr, 26.8gr and 27.0gr with CCI #41 and a coal of 2.250. Once fired LC '10 brass trimmed to 1.752". Crimped with Lee FCD. The best "group" was with 26.5gr. It was a hair over 1/4", but it was also 2" lower than the previously described zero and 1" left. The second best "group" was with 27.0gr. That one was about 1/2" ... still two inches low, but no windage correction needed. 26.2 and 26.8 were again ridiculous at around 3". No pressure signs whatsoever. I have since loaded up another round of 26.5gr for my next trip in which i will have my chronograph. I'll see if my velocities match Kleinman's. Updates to follow ... On edit: changed CFE223 best group from 26.1 to 26.5 May I ask what your published load data source was for these tests? |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoneStoner:
May I ask what your published load data source was for these tests? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoneStoner:
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
<snip> On the 17th I tried the M855A1s with Varget. I loaded 3 rounds each of 25.8gr, 26.1gr and 26.4gr with CCI #41 and a coal of 2.255. Once fired LC '10 brass trimmed to 1.752". Crimped with Lee FCD. <snip> May I ask what your published load data source was for these tests? The sources were the Barnes link PointBlank82 shared above, Lyman 4th edition, Lee 2nd edition and Hornady 8th addition. The only references that came close to the style/weight of this projectile was Barnes and Lyman. The Lee did have 63gr jacketed listed, but the Hornady only had 60gr projectiles listed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 7:07:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CTRob65]
[#34]
I took advantage of the last day I'll be able to shoot for a while and finished off the CFE223 run. I was not happy with the results whatsoever and will move onto another powder next go around.
The best grouping I had out of my PSA/FN CHF barrel was 2moa. I'm hoping someone else wll chime in on group sizes. The lastest chronograph data from the CE Digital. 42 degrees today and not as foggy as yesterday. 27.0gr 2879 2879 2849 2873 2873 av 2870 es 30 sd 12 
27.2gr 2879 2861 2917 2943 2886 av 2897 es 82 sd 32 
There was some primer flattening (more that the typical) along with some swipes on the 27.2gr. I will not be going any higher with CFE223. Both groups opened up to the point of being laughable. on edit: The importance of more than 3 shot groups ... 3 rounds of 26.5gr CFE223 vs a 10 round 1" group with the only difference being about 20rds through the barrel between days. 
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Posted: 1/22/2017 7:31:30 PM EDT
[#35]
I knew I was going to bring the chronograph with me today so I said screw it and I loaded up some more projectiles with Tac and CCI #41 primers. For no good reason other than curiosity I changed the coal from 2.250" to 2.260". It did not make any difference in group sizes.
25.3gr_______25.6gr_______25.9gr 2715_________2836_________2836 2715_________2824_________2830 2737_________2807_________2830 2743_________2830_________2842 2772_________2783_________2824 av 2736______av 2816_______av 2832 es 57________es 53_________es 18 sd 23________sd21__________sd 6 There were again no pressure signs, but the groups were scary. |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 7:51:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTRob65:
I knew I was going to bring the chronograph with me today so I said screw it and I loaded up some more projectiles with Tac and CCI #41 primers. For no good reason other than curiosity I changed the coal from 2.250" to 2.260". It did not make any difference in group sizes. 25.3gr_______25.6gr_______25.9gr 2715_________2836_________2836 2715_________2824_________2830 2737_________2807_________2830 2743_________2830_________2842 2772_________2783_________2824 av 2736______av 2816_______av 2832 es 57________es 53_________es 18 sd 23________sd21__________sd 6 There were again no pressure signs, but the groups were scary. Hmmm, maybe take it up to 27 gr of TAC? Nice SD on the 25.9 gr... |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2017 10:50:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Cfe223 is starting to look like a poor choice for these pills. After looking through all this data, and especially CTRob65' run with TAC, my theory is that SMP-842 (or whatever is used) has a burn rate closser to 748. Maybe its 748 without the copper fouling chemical.
CTRob65 used 25.8 and the velocity was not close to the factory 2900 from a 16 " barrel. Lyman shows 63 sierra smp with 27.5 as max load going at 3147 with a 20" barrel. If anyone can find out the burn rate of smp842 it would help out. Dont get me wrong cfe223 is not useless, I can get 1/4 MOA with the old m885 pills at 200 yards with a green mountain 20" 1/8 twist with 26.5 2.260 avg of 2950fps and a cheap NCstar mark3 3-9x42 (dont knock it until you try it). |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/29/2017 12:49:24 PM EDT
[#38]
I want to look at VV n530, VV N135, TAC, and maybe varget.
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Posted: 2/2/2017 3:43:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Bringing this back up to see if anyone has had more experience with these.
I recently learned that the M855A1 is a 3moa round and minimum velocity for a level III plate is around 2100fps. Has anyone else heard/read/lived this? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2017 8:11:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTRob65:
Bringing this back up to see if anyone has had more experience with these. I recently learned that the M855A1 is a 3moa round and minimum velocity for a level III plate is around 2100fps. Has anyone else heard/read/lived this? It should be more accurate than 3moa depending on the gun. Early loading were better on Armour. The penetration on vests has more to do with plate type. Some materials shatter the steel tip better than others. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 10:38:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
It should be more accurate than 3moa depending on the gun. Early loading were better on Armour. The penetration on vests has more to do with plate type. Some materials shatter the steel tip better than others. I want to see someone with a 22-250 run these up to 3400 fps against ceramic level IV |
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Posted: 2/3/2017 2:57:55 AM EDT
[#42]
M855 is usually 3 MOA. The .mil standard for precision is 4 MOA or less, correct?
I read that M855A1 was about 1-1.5 MOA from an AMU rifle. Could have been a select lot I suppose. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 7:39:16 PM EDT
[#43]
55 degrees here today.
Shot some loads up to 27gr of CFE223 with CCI #41 primers and had results pretty much spot on to CTRob65's. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:33:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rabidus]
[#44]
I've had good results with cfe223 in heavier bullets.
It does not seem to do well in lighter bullets and this thread is confirming that conclusion. Thanks for this thread and work OP. I mean to say do well as in strictly velocity, not accuracy. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 4:54:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Updated the OP.
@Kleinman Just to verify, CCI#400 with all your loads and no velocity data for 27.0gr of CFE? @CTRob65 Just want to verify CCI#41 with all loads? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 9:15:48 PM EDT
[#46]
CCI #41 this last time and velocity was around 2870 +/- 20 FPS with 27 grains of CFE223.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:41:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Should have some info later this week. I am trying 8208 and see what happens.
Have Tac, but it looks like it won't do what I want. Hoping my WC747 does the job. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 6:38:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Updated the OP. @CTRob65 Just want to verify CCI#41 with all loads? Correct. CCI 41 on all loads. Thank you for updating the thread. |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 10:48:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Bumping thread to answer an IM I received.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:45:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Finally made it to the range. I know it doesn't help you guys, but
the WC747 hit 3kfps through a 16" barrel with 25.5 grs. of powder. I did however try some 8208 XBR which will be more helpful. Noticing that XBR gets real tight on the charge weights with heavier bullets, I started at a conservative 23 grains and 23.5. PMC 1x brass trimmed to 1.750. CCI #41 primer. Bullet seated to 2.245. 23 grains: 2712 2662 2694 2665 2675 23.5 grains: 2751 2711 2772 2765 2718 No signs on the brass that indicates anything. Thought I felt/heard a slight crunch on the 23.5, so going up from that will more than likely be a compressed load. Accuracy was not bad, but it was from a 16" CL with Acog. Not the ideal paper puncher. Do believe there is a little more leeway for the XBR, but not much, so watch out. |
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