Keyhole in 9mm??? - Page 1

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Posted: 9/28/2016 3:11:01 PM EDT

I loaded some 147 plated in 9mm 3.4 gr titegroup. I have used this same load for about 2 years. OAL 1.14

Shot some of my reloads that I reloaded last weekend out of about 50 rounds I had 4-5 that keyholed

Any idea what what might cause this

Posted: 9/28/2016 3:49:42 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I loaded some 147 plated in 9mm 3.4 gr titegroup. I have used this same load for about 2 years. OAL 1.14

Shot some of my reloads that I reloaded last weekend out of about 50 rounds I had 4-5 that keyholed

Any idea what what might cause this

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How clean is the barrel?

Posted: 9/28/2016 4:00:17 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:

How clean is the barrel?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I loaded some 147 plated in 9mm 3.4 gr titegroup. I have used this same load for about 2 years. OAL 1.14

Shot some of my reloads that I reloaded last weekend out of about 50 rounds I had 4-5 that keyholed

Any idea what what might cause this

How clean is the barrel?

just clean it this weekend has about 100 rounds on it before this started........I let them go a good many rounds between cleaning.

Posted: 9/28/2016 5:13:21 PM EDT

[#3]

could be too much crimp.

Posted: 9/28/2016 5:42:00 PM EDT

[#4]

TMJ'd bullets - like the ELECTROPLATED Speer Gold Dot, sometime tumble with faster powder like TiteGroup.

Now, TiteGroup isn't all that fast. But for some reason, it does not seem to always work with TMJs.

Do you have any Power Pistol? How about Hodgdon Universal? Even Win. 231/HP-38?

I might try those. In my gun, I use TMJs with even faster powder like Solo 1000 or N-320 - but again, those are my guns.

I'll add it won't hurt (or cost anything) to try cleaning the copper fouling out of the barrel & give your load another try.

Posted: 9/28/2016 5:49:46 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:
could be too much crimp.

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This batch is crimp a little more that the last batch.

Posted: 9/28/2016 6:49:15 PM EDT

[#6]

Try to only remove the mouth flare nothing more. Plated bullets can be very soft. Swedging them down within the case is a very real and easy thing to do.

Motor

Posted: 9/28/2016 6:54:45 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
could be too much crimp.

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This is possible. OP are you using a Lee Factory Crimp Die? If so it's possible that the sizing ring is swaging the bullet circumference....in addition to possible overcrimping. But I think if the bullets were swaged most or all would keyhole.

Posted: 9/29/2016 6:32:50 AM EDT

[#8]

What gun are you shooting, barrel length, and at what distance? Agree with Motor1, loading plated bullets can swage down the diameter of the base to some extent. I'd like to think not enough to affect stability in flight, but who knows. Generally plated are softer and its possible some brass & reloading processes could be rough on them. Are you getting consistent powder charges? Your OAL should be ok for that bullet, assume you're shooting RN profile? For crimping, taper crimp die used in the final step gives best results in my experience.

Posted: 9/29/2016 8:44:56 AM EDT

[#9]

I loaded 500 X-Treme 115 grain RN plated bullets with Titegroup and was getting key holes at 10 yards out of my Gen 4 Glock 19. Glock 43 didn't key hole as bad but accuracy was still poor. I used a heavy taper crimp and loaded them like they were FMJ lead core with typical copper jacket. Big mistake and when I tried these in my 5904 accuracy was pitiful at 10 yards. I guess the cores are soft swaged lead and with tight taper crimp they don't like the velocity I was pushing them with 4.6 grains of Titegroup.

Live and learn I guess I'll drop the powder charge and use a very light crimp to see if that helps. I have 500 more of these bullets yet to load. Thank goodness I didn't load all 1000 at once.

Posted: 9/29/2016 9:27:25 AM EDT

[#10]

This was from gem 4 glock 19 @ 10 yards. Charge is +/- .1

I am thinking it is the crimp which sucks have 2k of this loaded the same way. This load has been my go to for some time.

Posted: 9/29/2016 3:53:41 PM EDT

[#11]

I'd get out my bullet puller and pull one to see how much of an impact the crimp may have on the plating.

Posted: 9/29/2016 5:46:29 PM EDT

[#12]

I did some experimenting with a taper crimp die and various smooth sided (no crimp groove) bullets plus some of my cast bullets.

This was done with a 45acp taper crimp die but the same rules would apply to any taper crimp.

I used an un-sized case so that any change could easily be detected. The bullets fit the un-sized case with a little resistance which made testing a lot easier.

I bell mouthed the case (s) to simulate normal crimping.

What I found was that taper crimping has almost no effect on neck tension. But the most important thing I found was that once you go so far that you reduce the bullet size the neck tension DECREASES !!!!!!!

This was consistent across the board from soft lead to the toughest jacketed bullets.

This is why you need to be careful when crimping soft bullets with a taper crimp die.

Motor

Posted: 9/29/2016 9:00:20 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
This was from gem 4 glock 19 @ 10 yards. Charge is +/- .1

I am thinking it is the crimp which sucks have 2k of this loaded the same way. This load has been my go to for some time.

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Sounds like deformed bullets. So they keyhole at 10 yds, how inaccurate are they? Rather than pulling them, you could just use them for drills and nothing precision.

Posted: 9/29/2016 11:51:08 PM EDT

[#14]

Interesting topic. I'm using 3.3 gr of TG with the same 147gr xtreme bullets. I haven't shot them at paper in years. Only steel targets. Now I'm wondering if maybe mine are keyholing as well. I put very little belling on my cases. Arguably not enough. I use the Dillon dies and I don't think I'm crimping much. This thread makes me want to double check mine now.

Worth mentioning, I did try some of the 165gr 9mm bullets from xtreme and those did in fact keyhole. I could probably stabilize them with the correct charge/barrel twist combo. I ended up going back to 147s.

Posted: 9/30/2016 2:36:15 AM EDT

[#15]

Yes this topic greatly interests me too, shooting a lot of plated and coated bullets with Titegroup. I found this link about reloading heavy bullets in 9mm, I think he touches on this topic of swaging plated bullets also.

Loading heavy bullets in 9mm

Posted: 9/30/2016 8:55:33 AM EDT

[#16]

I did pull a few last night and did see a light crimp ring on the bullet. One that you could feel as you ran your nail across the bullet. I am assuming that this is to much crimp. now that I think about it I have shoot steel the last few years and only started to shoot paper again with the range close to the office.

This batch will be gone before long and will take a look at my load again.

Posted: 9/30/2016 9:15:48 AM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
What I found was that taper crimping has almost no effect on neck tension. But the most important thing I found was that once you go so far that you reduce the bullet size the neck tension DECREASES !!!!!!!

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Brass is springy, lead not so much.

Posted: 9/30/2016 9:19:57 AM EDT

[#18]

Take your calipers and measure the bullet diameter from base to where the crimp mark is. Compare the results to what you get measuring new bullets.

Sometimes neck tension alone can reduce bullet diameter but usually it's with soft oversize cast bullets but doing the measurements will tell you what you need to know.

Motor

Posted: 9/30/2016 3:06:03 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
This was from gem 4 glock 19 @ 10 yards. Charge is +/- .1

I am thinking it is the crimp which sucks have 2k of this loaded the same way. This load has been my go to for some time.

View Quote

I use the Lee FCD

Every time I load a batch of plated bullets I pull a loaded round to make sure the crimp isn't too much.

To set up the FCD I back it out then run a resized (and not expanded) case up in it. Then I adjust down until it contacts the case.

That is usually all it needs with plated.