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Posted: 1/24/2016 3:12:05 PM EDT
What is the best tool for neck turning? Most popular if not the best?
I always saw neck turning as a bit over overkill... since I was primarily using Lapua brass.... but since I am about to switch to Hornady brass in the creedmoor, I figure I might as well learn this step. |
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I am using the K&M tool. It is a good tool, I have no idea if it is the best. It is the only one I have used.
I use it on Lapua brass. You would be surprised how much material it removes. I only turn so that 50% of the neck has been trimmed. |
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Is that because you only neck size that portion of the neck where you turn it? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I only turn so that 50% of the neck has been trimmed. Is that because you only neck size that portion of the neck where you turn it? He means he only takes off the high spots and does not try to make the walls perfectly uniform. |
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I use Sinclair's NT-4000 Neck Turning tool. It works fantastic. High quality and easy to set up.
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I am using the K&M tool. It is a good tool, I have no idea if it is the best. It is the only one I have used. I use it on Lapua brass. You would be surprised how much material it removes. I only turn so that 50% of the neck has been trimmed. View Quote K&M here too, Smooth and fast. |
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I have a Wilson. They make good stuff. My case gauges are Wilson. Figured their lathe would be good as well. Never used anything else so,I can't say whether it's good/better/worse than anything else.
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Used to go with the RCBS for a long time, but now just use the lathe with a single point HSS cutter, with the pilot for the case neck that extends through the flash hold as well. The glitch part that I never liked on the RCBS unit, the pilot was spinning in the case neck, with the cast stationary instead. http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff459/cseelow/DSCN0209.jpg View Quote I use the RCBS trimmer but am wondering what the spring looking thing is on the hand wheel side? |
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I use the RCBS trimmer but am wondering what the spring looking thing is on the hand wheel side? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Used to go with the RCBS for a long time, but now just use the lathe with a single point HSS cutter, with the pilot for the case neck that extends through the flash hold as well. The glitch part that I never liked on the RCBS unit, the pilot was spinning in the case neck, with the cast stationary instead. http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff459/cseelow/DSCN0209.jpg I use the RCBS trimmer but am wondering what the spring looking thing is on the hand wheel side? It slowly advances the cutter up the neck as you are wind the handle to leave a cleaner cut, hence auto feed system. http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/neck-turning/neck-turning-tools/case-neck-turner-attachments-prod37394.aspx Hence without the auto feed, guys tend to rush case neck turning, and just make a mess of it instead. |
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Thank you, I was unaware of that attachment. I am sure I am guilty of making a mess of a case or 100 in my day lol.
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I use the k&n turner for 308 & 223. They also make a cordless drill attachment, quick/easy.
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I started out with the K&M making 270AR cases , I've seen that the guys working with the wildcats off the 6.5x47 cases are moving to the 21st Century lathe
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He means he only takes off the high spots and does not try to make the walls perfectly uniform. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I only turn so that 50% of the neck has been trimmed. Is that because you only neck size that portion of the neck where you turn it? He means he only takes off the high spots and does not try to make the walls perfectly uniform. Correct. When I was researching neck turning I found the only real reason to turn the full diameter of the neck was for tight match chambers. I think the same idea behind neck sizing follows neck turning. We want to improve the fit as well as the consistency of the neck in the chamber. Turning so that only the highest portions of the neck is smoothed out is the best balance between thin necks and consistent neck tension. What I have noticed since I started neck turning is that case neck thickness varies from mfg to mfg. There is a big difference between my Winchester, Norma and Lapua case thicknesses. I could probably turn 100% of my Lapua necks and still be thicker than my Norma necks. One tip I can give you with a cutter like the K&M. When you are cutting make sure the cutting edge is on the down side. Also try to cut slowly and consistently. When I started trimming I held the tool with the cutting edge up to watch the process. That lets the shavings pile up. Next I found I was getting gauling inside the case neck. Small bits of brass were getting into the neck and causing issues. I flipped the cutter over so shaving fell away and the problem went away. Also, if you use a drill run it at a low/very low speed. You don't need much and running low keeps things cooler and binding down. Also, buy the neck sizing press to make sure neck tension is consistent. Hope this helps. |
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A very old NT1000 from Sinclair.
Open them, turn them, size them. I have multiple barrels for a Panda action with tight necks. Tight enough NO case fits without turning. |
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21st Century cutter head, lathe stand, and expander mandrel. Expensive? I think so, but you only have to cry once. Once you use it, you'll still think it's expensive but worth every penny.
Turning necks using less sophisticated equipment is tedious and can be less than precise. If you're gonna' do it, do it right and make it as quick and painless as possible. I'd give up a great many of my reloading "gadgets" before I'd give up my 21st Century neck turning rig. It's great. |
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K&M neck turner for me. I use lee's zip trim case holder with the drill attachment to spin the brass. No complaints about the neck turner but I'm not in love with the lee case holder.
I really wanted the 21st century lathe, had it in my cart and several times almost clicked submit order. In the long run with the shooting I do I couldn't justify it. |
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The best neck turner is no neck turner.
I say that because, IMO, neck turning is a waste of time unless you have a tight necked chamber and need to turn necks for safety reasons. If you have a tight necked chamber, the money is better spent getting the chamber neck reamed to a normal diameter. |
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Not really, since if you are unifying the cases for say bench rest where you will not be bullet crimping, then prep includes removing the ID neck donuts shoulder of the case if there are any after firing forming if you are going to seat the bullet past the donuts. http://accurateshooter.net/Products/ts260donutx380.jpg As for Plan Jane ammo in a plan Jane chamber/rifle, then bullet crimp alone will have more tension on the bullet over all than anything else, plus the chamber neck area is on the larger side anyway compared to factory formed brass, so some case prep may make sense, while going to effort of full case prep with donut removal reaming and even neck turning (less than the ideal way to make a mess of isntead), may not yield any differences isntead. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The best neck turner is no neck turner. I say that because, IMO, neck turning is a waste of time unless you have a tight necked chamber and need to turn necks for safety reasons. If you have a tight necked chamber, the money is better spent getting the chamber neck reamed to a normal diameter. Not really, since if you are unifying the cases for say bench rest where you will not be bullet crimping, then prep includes removing the ID neck donuts shoulder of the case if there are any after firing forming if you are going to seat the bullet past the donuts. http://accurateshooter.net/Products/ts260donutx380.jpg As for Plan Jane ammo in a plan Jane chamber/rifle, then bullet crimp alone will have more tension on the bullet over all than anything else, plus the chamber neck area is on the larger side anyway compared to factory formed brass, so some case prep may make sense, while going to effort of full case prep with donut removal reaming and even neck turning (less than the ideal way to make a mess of isntead), may not yield any differences isntead. Say what? You jumper from bench rest ammo needing neck reaming (not neck turning) to "plain jane" ammo to I don't know what. Any well made rifle is unlikely to benefit from neck turning unless the shooter is working below 1/2 MOA. Any benefit accrued from neck turning is tiny compared to the other errors in the system and will be masked by them. If you are an elite, benchrest competition shooter shooting below 1/2 MOA, perhaps you will detect a difference. For we "mere mortals", neck turning is a waste of time and money. Honestly, I think this is a bad idea foisted upon the general shooting public by people who want to sell gear. As an alternative to tight necked chambers and the need to neck turn, I offer the following. Get a Redding Type S Full Length Sizing die. It leaves a tiny "collar" of neck that is un-sized. This collar will hold the front end of the cartridge concentric with the chamber neck. It does this WITHOUT jamming the bullet into the lands. Yes, yes, it works perfectly reliably, even with semiauto rifles. |
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I have dabbled with the stuff with a nice Sinclair unit and a Wilson case holder in a drill.
Really more useful when making cases from a parent cartridge. Before Lapua made .260 brass I made a demo batch from Lapua .308 cases. Most chambers won't see the difference. Also if your case necks are inconsistent in neck thickness from one side to the other, it is very likely the whole case is like that all the way down. They can also be useful if you're a die hard cast bullet shooter. Sometimes your bore will need a certain diameter for better accuracy than you chamber neck can fit. Trimming case necks gets you where you need to be in the chamber neck. |
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If you are an elite, benchrest competition shooter shooting below 1/2 MOA, perhaps you will detect a difference. For we "mere mortals", neck turning is a waste of time and money. Honestly, I think this is a bad idea foisted upon the general shooting public by people who want to sell gear. View Quote Will agree with you for most shooters, but you have to group bean field shooters/long range hunters shooting long shooters, into the bench rest group as well (guys running 40X/built rigs that are capable of .5 or less groups and pushing plus 600 meters shots as the norm. Also as pointed out, when you are forming cases out of parent case where the necks of the new case will be from the side walls of the old case, then neck turning is required most of the time to reduce the neck thickness as well. Fact it, there have been plenty of 10 rounds groups in .09 MOA and smaller groups @ 100 yard shooting indoors, over and over again as the norm, where wind is not a factor. So if this is your goal (Holy grail you are chasing), then the only way your going to pull such off is with the cases all being unified down to the last detail to start with. If you shooting 1 to 2moa with a production rifle instead, then any major case prep to unify the case to a precise uniformity is not going to reduce such way down, and the minuet differences may not even be noticeable instead for the effort put into this amount of case work. So having said this, and you do need to turn case necks, then think long and hard on the tools that you are going to use. Hence once you start breaking the $300 mark, then you into the same amount of money for a small mini mill that is like new in box, which will have other purposes than just turning case necks alone. FYI for those chasing the holy grail, Record .009" group, and shot outdoor as well. http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2013/05/benchrest-world-record-jim-carmichel |
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I use the RCBS handheld unit.
It is simple, but works fine. I don't think people who say neck turning is a waste of time have ever mic'd their neck walls. If uniformity in neck wall thickness wasn't important then chamber to bore alignment wouldn't be either. But we all know it is. It's a very easy thing to do that removes one more variable, and precision (small groups) is all about removing variables. |
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This thread got interesting.
So - I am not a benchrest shooter. I do shoot long range, and always strive for tiny groups. I do NOT make my own brass cases from other sizes, or fireform, etc. Primarily I have been shooting .308 for years using Lapua brass, Varget, and 175 SMK's... and typically average in the .6's to .9's at 100yds, factory Remington barrels (5R) Now, I have built a 6.5 creedmoor (Bartlein barrel, gunsmith cut chamber) and have been shooting factory Hornady 140MAX ammo to get used to the rifle and as a brass source. My typical reloading prep will be to neck size only, using a Redding Type S bushing die, with the bushing set for my desired neck tension, with a carbide expander button, uniform primer pocket, debur flash hole. Then I bump the shoulder back using a FL die when the bolt handle starts to stick, and repeat. My assumption was that neck turning was advantageous for me, especially when using a bushing die to set the neck tension, so that I had consistent neck thickness and therefore consistent neck tension. Are some of you saying this won't improve consistency and therefore accuracy in ANY rifle? Why would a "tight necked chamber" have any impact here? (I never crimp bolt gun ammo) |
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This thread got interesting. So - I am not a benchrest shooter. I do shoot long range, and always strive for tiny groups. I do NOT make my own brass cases from other sizes, or fireform, etc. Primarily I have been shooting .308 for years using Lapua brass, Varget, and 175 SMK's... and typically average in the .6's to .9's at 100yds, factory Remington barrels (5R) Now, I have built a 6.5 creedmoor (Bartlein barrel, gunsmith cut chamber) and have been shooting factory Hornady 140MAX ammo to get used to the rifle and as a brass source. My typical reloading prep will be to neck size only, using a Redding Type S bushing die, with the bushing set for my desired neck tension, with a carbide expander button, uniform primer pocket, debur flash hole. Then I bump the shoulder back using a FL die when the bolt handle starts to stick, and repeat. My assumption was that neck turning was advantageous for me, especially when using a bushing die to set the neck tension, so that I had consistent neck thickness and therefore consistent neck tension. Are some of you saying this won't improve consistency and therefore accuracy in ANY rifle? Why would a "tight necked chamber" have any impact here? (I never crimp bolt gun ammo) View Quote In a similar boat as you and curious what answers you get from others. I am learning LR shooting using a DTA SRS in .308. |
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bullet crimp alone will have more tension on the bullet over all than anything else View Quote Case neck tension is the largest. Bullets are an interference fit in a correctly sized case. The neck stretches and provides the 'grip.' And watch out using power equipment to turn case necks if you have a defined diameter you are after. The heat buildup can alter the neck thickness if you cut to thick or fast. I usually go for around 0.0015 of neck clearance to the chamber. That is diametrical clearance. All for groundhogs at 400+ yards. |
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