I bought the Hornady LnL to load .223. Soon I plan to load .45ACP. Then .308, .30-06 and 9mm. Someday I will load 7.62x54R and 7.62x39 when surplus ammo dries up.

I read some online comparisons and a non-biased article. I ended up choosing the Hornady over the Dillon. I have had nothing but aggravation with this press. First the priming system. I have gotten that working well not perfect but well. Then I started to be happy and I added the case feeder. I have problems with tipping cases. I did get this under control but it is still not 100% reliable. During loading it is about 75%. Decapping only it is almost perfect.

I have a thread going for the case feeder and the suggestions there have helped get it pretty good. I developed another issue during loading. The cases do not eject correctly. This is a new issue and I have not investigated yet.

So my question is has anyone run both or switched to Dillon? I would like to hear your experience.

if you have a Dillon and can give some honest info about it I would appreciate that too. I have a few questions.

1. How good is the priming system?
2. How good is the case feeder with .223?
3. Powder measure from Dillon. Is it accurate with short extruded powders?
4. Can you use a different powder measure on it?

Tag, i have a LNL with case feeder and it has NEVER run smoothly...

The Dillon case feeder is absolutely FLAWLESS, no problem with .223 300 blackout, 9MM .45ACP, .40 S&W.

I've never had a problem with the primer system that wasn't My fault.

Powder measures have been dead nuts for Me so far.

Never used any other powder measure on Mine.

I had a 650, but went to the 1050 for the swage function, more money, but 5 times the press.

I want to know as well.  I have a LNL AP and also have had nothing but problems with priming system and auto eject function as well.  In addition, the auto index feature seems to get out of time every so often and I have to adjust the pawls.

In addition to the Dillon, I am looking at the new RCBS prochucker 7.  It is an auto indexing press with 7 die stations.  I am waiting to hear some user reviews before I make a decision.  The only thing holding me back from buying a DIllon is the fact that I load multiple calibers and caliber conversions are fairly expensive compared to the RCBS press.  Also, I have a RCBS powder measure that I use with a single stage press and it is dead nuts accurate, much more so than the Hornady powder measure.

Hornady for a few years. Never been absolutely happy. Hate the thought of going with the 650's priming system but the rest of the press has a lot of pros. Just more expensive.

Instead, kept the Hornady for medium use loads and saved for 1050 for high volume. Extremely happy. As mentioned above, it's 5x the press..

In hindsight, I am happy with my decisions.

The Dillon casefeeder is considerably more reliable than the LNLs I have used. I have heard they have been improved over time, so I can't judge newer ones based on that.

Caliber conversions are much cheaper for LNL. The LNL is also faster to change in my opinion and experience. The case feeder is more expensive than the Dillon.

I dislike the primer carousel of the 650 and wish it was like the 550... but it works, and works very well. I just hate how they fall out of the system and you have to reload them if they aren't used.

Both are good systems but in comparing my 650 to friend's LNLs and seeing what they complain about, they seem to be of a mind that once the 650 is set and ready to rock, it requires less fooling around and is less likely to slip up.

I often hear people say that powder spillage is a problem the Hornady solved with its half step rotation. Maybe that is true but I've never had an issue on my 650 even with very full cases.

Both designs have good and bad... be aware that Dillon koolaid drinkers are rabid, and sometimes the anti-dillons are just as much so. I will stick with my 650 and I feel it is the higher "quality" machine, but both have their own quirks and work very well.

Some people will tell you to just go to a 1050 instead of either... the 1050 ready to roll is a good $700-800 more than a similarly equipped LNL or 650.

My bench has 3 dillons, an RCBS, and a Lee press on it, ymmv.

After around 5-6K rounds loaded on my XL650

1. Been 100% for me once aligned properly, Dillon will send you the tool for free if you need it.

2. 100% for every caliber I have 9mm, 40, 45ACP, .223

3. Yes, with IMR 8208-XBR I get +/- .1gr.

4. Yes, but I have not done so.

ETA
Just finished resizing and trimming about 800 .223 cases and had my first case come down the tube upside down.

Still not bad, but I think I may have jinxed myself.

Through the generosity of a friend and a curious nature, I have both an LnL and a 650, both with case feeders.

Both are on strong mounts.

I also have a Forester Co-Ax but that's a different press for a different purpose.

Both the LnL and the 650 run to my satisfaction.

Customer service has been outstanding for both.  The Hornady guys really know their press and are very good at communicating adjustments that are needed.  The Dillon guys are equally knowledgeable and mostly dispense free replacement parts.  If you conclude from this that the Hornady press needs more adjustment, you would be partly right.

Both require adjustment during production runs.  Maybe the LnL a bit more so.

Both presses have a few clear advantages and disadvantages.

I run precision rifle rounds on the Co-Ax because I'm hand weighing powder charges.

Neither the LnL nor the 650 make it easy to move cases on and off the press during production..

The LnL is a bit easier to set up and adjust.  Easier to remove cases; checking powder throws without having to deal with the buttons or primers dispensing when you don't want one.  Lock and Load dies beat separate tool heads.  I do have dedicated tool heads, dedicated powder measurers, and dedicated large and small primer assemblies for the Dillon which makes the Dillon more expensive if you load multiple calibers.

The LnL primer system beats the 650 if you keep it clean.  No primer dispenses if no case to be primed.  I have had a primer detonation on the Dillon using Federal primers.  Probably not the machine's fault.

The 650 now does exclusively large run pistol production mainly because I'm checking powder weights less frequently and the case feeder needs attention less frequently.  A large run for me is two thousand rounds in a batch.

Rifle rounds are made on the LnL or the Co-Ax.  Any production under 100, maybe 200 if I want to weight each charge or when using a powder that doesn't dispense well, is on the Co-Ax.

If you have a strong preference to load while sitting, the LnL is the better choice.  I load standing.

I am fortunate to have both, would be happy with either, would probably pick the Dillon if I could only have one but would curse every time I wanted to do short runs, do  frequent set ups or buy the dedicated parts I would want for a new caliber.

The Dillon does have more of a Swiss watch feel to it than the LnL.

I suspect more folks producing large batch sizes of a few calibers would prefer the Dillon.  The Hornady is a better choice if loading small runs of many calibers.

Hope that helps.

I really appreciate the honest feedback based on experience. I know the fanboys of Dillon are a rapid bunch. I want honest opinion. I have no allegiance to either brand.

The reason I went with Hornady in the first place was less based on price than based on need and function. Of course price plays into it but it is not the main motivator. I wanted a progressive press that could load 1000 rounds at a sitting. The amount of fiddling I have done in the 2 years I have owned the press is VERY frustrating. I swear I have spent as much time with Youtube, the web and working on the press as I have loading ammo with it. It seems every time I try something I run across a new "bug". I have yet to run a batch through the press without stopping to diagnose a problem. I have only used it for .223 so far but want to move to .45ACP and .30-06 soon.

Because I plan to load 3-4 calibers on it I thought the Hornady would be the better choice. Now I am not so sure.

I am real tempted to order a Dillon and run it side by side and sell the one I don't like. That is a huge expense and I am not looking forward to losing the $200-300 doing this.

Keep the info coming.

I run a 650 and have hardware for about a dozen calibers.  The high volume sizes; .223, 9mm, .40, and .45 use a GSI feeder.  May go to a 1050 someday for these.  Specialty rounds are also run on a CH 444 and a Hollywood manual presses.  

GSI is working on a 30 cal bullet feeder.  That will be most useful for 308 and 300 BLK.
\

I Love my 650   ( also have a 550B that I love )

1. How good is the priming system?

fine and dandy

2. How good is the case feeder with .223?

great, never had any trouble.

3. Powder measure from Dillon. Is it accurate with short extruded powders?

I polished mine, and it's good enough for IMR4895, VARGET, H322 etc.
it meters ball powder perfectly

4. Can you use a different powder measure on it?

Never tried, but a friend of mine runs a different measure on his 550B for stick powder...I forget the brand, RCBS maybe.  ( the powder measure is the same for the 650 & 550)

I run the shit out of my 650
mostly bulk .40 &.45ACP IPSC pistol loads

also process .223, 762nato, 30-06, and 6.8 on her.

I really like the 1200b electric trimmer also.

I planned on the Hornady years ago but then found a great deal locally ebay.  My 650 has been fantastic,  case feeder perfect through thousands of rounds,  primer system works great unless I didn't swage very well.   Totally happy.

I had some trials and tribulations just lately trying to set it up for .223.

Here is one example:



What you are seeing there is the shellplate is not centered on the primer "press" or "punch".  It was like the shellplate had overshot (no pun intended) its index.

I got that fixed.

But then the snapping (to a stop) shell plate would cause the brass case to stop abruptly and sling a few grains of powder out of the case.

To fix that, I cut a coil or a coil and a half off the detent ball's spring.

And then the primer carousel wasn't indexing far enough either.

I put a "shim" behind the primer carousel cam to fix it.

After all that, it was smooth sailing.  I really cranked out some ammo.

Me? Personally?  Don't like the powder cop dies and I would rather rely on my Mark I eyeball to actually see the powder in the case.  So I rigged up a flashlight to shine down into the case.

I will chalk up my problems with the 650 to not having reloaded rifle for 2 to 3 years.  Plus, I had more experience with the 550.  I am thinking I haven't reloaded any ammo for at least a year.

The upside to having any Dillon is the Brian Enos forums.  Have a hiccup with any press and chances are really good that somebody else has already experienced that same glitch.

I had an LnL AP.  I now have a Dillon 650.

Downside to the Dillon is the cost of caliber conversion.  If you buy the right conversions and piece the next caliber together,  it's not so bad...  I have bought three conversion sets and load for 11 calibers.  

LnL is way easier to change calibers on and can be done in under 3 minutes if you have set your dies up to their own bushings.  Even having dedicated tool heads for the 650 to keep my dies in,  it still takes up to 10 minutes per conversion on that side. However,  invest in spare pawls.  Those things break often.  They also tend to need constant adjustment.  

I am still considering investing into buying the single stage Hornady as a re-work press.  It's not too much more than an RCBS and the quick change dies are absolutely handy.

I've had my LNL a little over 4 years. I really haven't had any issues with it at all. The only thing I had done to theorizing system was out a chamfer on the primer shuttles. My cases feeder seems to work for me as well. 300blk can be a bit of a challenge but that it all I have struggled with.

I had the LNL AP. I sold it for another Dillon 650.

The Hornady case feeder can work very well, but it takes tinkering. The Dillon works perfectly with no tinkering. My time is too valuable to tinker.

Progressive loaders? No one serious about loading uses anything but Dillon, until you start talking commercial scale production.

And yet, every year, a bunch of people run out and drop 500+ on some other progressive, only to learn the lesson the hard way. Dillon has been succeeding in the progressive arena for as long as I've been loading, so 15+ years.

Want a single stage? There are some great choices.

Want a turret? There are some great choices.

Want a progressive? There is only Dillon. Only. Dillon. And their CS is so legendary, the used value is incredibly high.

I'm having a similar love vs hate relationship with my LnL AP.  Get something working, then it's another issue.  I'm about to order a 650XL myself.  I want to like the LnL as I chose it over the 650 for a few reasons, which you listed in your OP.  Priming and indexing are driving me nuts at times and I haven't even tried the case feeder yet.  May be time for me to wave the white flag.

Tag as I am currently saving for a progressive.

If this coming weekend's attempt to dial in the Hornady does not work out I will throw in the towel and order a Dillon.

My main caliber is .223. If I can get the press to run well for .223 than I don't want it. The other calibers I will load I do not shoot nearly as many rounds. On a day of shooting we go through 500 rounds of .223. The other calibers maybe 100 each.

I know caliber conversion can be more money and time consuming with the Dillon. 3 minutes vs. 10 minutes is not a real issue. I would not be switching constantly.

I have the priming system working great unless a case with a crimped pocket slips into the mix. Even then it is no big deal. I had missed primers on this last batch because I had issues with the feeder and ejecting. I was worried about not making squibs.

I want to be able to pull the handle and make ammo not tinker constantly. I am ok with a bit of adjusting at the beginning. Like most I only have weekends to reload and do all the other thing like household chores and projects so I do not want to waste what little time I have trying to get some piece of shit to work. I am almost tempted to just list the LnL for sale now and order the Dillon.

Nobody ever buys the DILLON650 and says " man, I wish i would have got the LNL instead "

Just get the 650 and be happy

I went from a Lee Loadmaster to a 650, talk about an upgrade.

Although, I will say I had the loadmaster running decent, could never get it to prime reliably at all.

I hate to pour the Blue Koolaid, but the truth is the truth, as said above.

I've had my LnL about 6 months, roughly three thousands rounds through it. No case feeder. 3 problems, only one not user induced, pin came out of primer shuttle. The only cleaning I do is wiping off spilled powder when I change shellplates, no issues from powder in the primer shuttle, case shake, or ejecting. Pretty happy with it.

Setting the pawls took a LOT of patience and a very gentle touch to get just right, using a lock washer on the shellplate keeps it tight which helps primer seating and timing.

Dillon was "the bomb" even back in the early 1990's , when I was first introduced to IPSC/USPSA competitions by some "guys" from Ft. Bragg.

The "about us" page at DillonPrecision.com puts their release date for the RL-450 to pre-1984.

No, but everybody who buys the 650 probably says, "man, I wish I would have gotten the super 1050:

I'm with the OP.  I've had it with the LNL AP.  I'm getting ready to order the 1050

One last attempt to get the LNL running good on Friday. If I can't make 500 rounds without a hitch then a Dillon will be ordered.

You will not be disappointed with the 1050. going from the 650, to the 1050, is like Cadillac to Rolls Royce. Ability to swage on press is HUGE, better case feed, better ADJUSTABLE priming system, My OAL has improved drastically from the 650, just overall feel of the machine.

hum I tried twice to like the  650 and now other people own them

ETA: was just in the EE and see dnmccoy just had both on his bench and has put the LnL up for sale, you might hit him up for his thoughts

That is an accurate statement unless they are trying to load as accurate of rifle rounds as possible.  While the XL650 is a good press precision rifle rounds was never what it was designed for.  If that is your goal then you would be better off with a LNL AP, RL550B, S1050, or Pro 2000.

I think there are a lot of factors much more important than the press at play. With that said most people who would be convinced that press type was that important will probably be loading on a single a tage.

Personally I like my 550 for precision though... good enough for Mr tubb then it's surely good enough for me. But that has more to do with how extremely  user friendly and easy to setup the 550 is... a good balance of performance and speed. My 650 mostly does pistol.

I have both and for a awhile used both but i give the edge to the Dillon 650. I think it just works smoother and the caliber conversions aren't that bad to buy. The case feed system in the Dillon is built in so you dont need a case feeder right away. My LNL collects dust now. For a single stage look at the Forster but that another story.

There are two home consumer progressive metallic cartridge presses made that operate smoothly and reliably enough to have warranted aftermarket manufacturers to make auto-drives for them. I think that says enough.

Put the LnL on the EE , armslist and even CL. OR your local range For Sale board. I started with a LnL. had issues with a consistent powder drop. Called Hornady, they said going to the micro adjuster would solve that, for IIRC $90-100. Wasn't 2 days later the LnL sold for $425, with extra bushings, shell plates etc.

I had 3-550's 2 - 450's (still have a 450 frame) . Now down to a 550, 2-650's and the 1050.  The 1050 is my brass processing power plant, 650's are set up to handle on #1 handgun. #2 is 223 specific. The 550 for my 45, just because. it's so simple a press everyone should have one in their stable.
The 650 for handgun is amazing, especially with the powder check (pt# 21044)
Are the dillons fool proof / perfect, not at all. They do require some attention, sometimes realignment of the primer system, recheck all hardware being tight, occasional case jamming up the case feeder.

Nothings perfect, especially with a dillon. BUT.......if and when you call dillon CS, you will be surprised how they handle their product. What i thought would cost me $$ (credit card in hand) was sent gratis. other items i "thought" would be free, was not.  In the end it balances out. When you consider their Lifetime warranty, Yeah It's worth the $$.

The 1050 on the other hand 1 yr warranty as it's their "commercial" unit. I have over 15K documented rounds of 223 processed on it. Outside  the somewhat anal PM schedule i keep. it's been almost trouble free. The unit is built like a tank, caged needle bearings instead of bushings on the 5 & 650.  The down side, tool head expense.

With that being said.. I still use a single stage to set my powder drop measurement. I do load development (powder measurement) with the s/stage. Once i find the load that works. I dial in the powder drop, then move it to the 5 or 650's and call it good.

.  Dillon's always hold their value.

So far so good on the Hornady LnL AP. I do not have the case feeder or the bullet feeder. Once I got it all set up and greased it has run well. Timing the pawls was easy enough, and disassembly/reassembly is fairly easy and intuitive. It works for my needs which is bulk production of .223, .300BLK, .308, and 6.5G plinking loads.

I'm looking at upgrading my progressive  from a Lee , only I'm looking at the RCBS Pro-Chucker 5  and the Dillon 650....not finding much on the Pro-chucker  and would like to know what "extras" are needed to start loading.

Let's say You are reloading .223. With a 650, You're ready to go out of the box basically, just need dies.

For .223 I had an extra tool head for decapping/ sizing, and the one that came with it set up for loading.

Now for every caliber after that, you'll need a conversion kit, 75.00. If You want a separate tool head for each caliber, 30.00, or a kit that has a toolhead, stand and powder dropper, and die for 120.00 or so.

So basically for 200.00 You can set it up so that in 10 minutes You can be swapped out loading a different caliber.

Or You can piece together Your conversions and use the same toolhead, powder dropper and readjust it all, for significantly cheaper, just a pain in the ass.

I ended up with a toolhead for .223, 9MM, .40, .45, one for decapping, and one for sizing /trimming. But I searched Craiglist, Ebay, gunshows for used toolheads and conversion kits and the like.

With the 1050, I won't go that way. I got one dedicated head for loading .223, one for sizing/trimming .223, one that is pistol, I'll use lock rings on all My dies, and will have one for decapping/swaging and use it for 300 BLKT.

I was gonna get a 300 BLKT size trim die, but at basically 200.00 for the carbide die, I'll just chop them, size em on the Lee, and trim with the WFT.

I'm taking it you already have the Dillon trimmer so why not grab a 300blk trim die foriirc $55 from CH4D and make your 300 blk on the 1050 it's so much smoother that way



Me I didn't mind piecing the conversion together as it can be a nice savings I'm at $62 or so for my 1050 conversions, with the 650 I'd buy the extra toolheads and maybe extra charge bars to set, not a big fan of extra powder measures as not a big deal to change.

Start with the FAQ section here's one of the links.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/258520_Read__First___useful_threads_for_answering_questions.html

I'm not exactly a newb here...I'm well aware of the FAQ's......perhaps you can show me a link to the part that addresses my question.

bm3 just set up a pro chucker , he should be able to help you on that

Thanks...found his thread a few pages back.

OR, go with the Uniquetek micrometer, I just got one for My pistol hopper, started to get the hang of it with Titegroup and 9MM. Once You figure it out, You can dial in to any charge weight. Gotta do some test drops, and figure out the settings, but it seems to be accurate enough.

I have been using a LNL for a year with no issues.  Probably around 5k 9mm, 7k 45acp, 10k 5.56 and another 3-4k .300BLK.  I have also ran several thousand rounds on a buddies 650, both have pros and cons.  I think either will do the job just fine and each brand will have fanboys.

I have a 1050 and a LNL. The 1050 is a pain in the ass to change over unless you have the tool head set up already which costs an arm and a leg. If I am running .223 on my 1050 I will have something else like 9mm on my LNL and if I need to change to .308 for under a 1,000 rounds I don't do it on the 1050 but on the LNL as it is much easier. I have had more trouble tuning the 1050 than I did with the LNL and when I messed up on the 1050 it was expensive while the Hornady was free with customer service that is just as good as Dillions. Now once I get the 1050 going the LNL can't hold a candle to what that cool machine can put out but for smaller volumes the LNL is an easier change over. I have also had very little problems with the LNL as long as you keep the powder out of the primer slide it will run near flawless and the powder drop is better than the Dillion with stick powder. I have never had a problem with the prawls and have loaded 10,000 plus rounds of 9mm, .223, 300BLK, 45 Long Colt, .40 S&W and.308 Win on the LNL.

Having all the experience with the LNL the primer slide is the weak point even though I prefer it to the way Dillion does it. As long as you keep it clean you shouldn't have any problems.

Maybe it's because I don't run the case feeder on my LnL because that seems where a lot of the public complaints about the LnL come from.

But I've had my LnL for a couple of years now with no issues that I wouldn't expect with a machine that has to time many operations and make them work at once.

Yes, I did have an early issue with adjusting the pawls, but once I thought that through and got it right, I've had no difficulty with large runs (500+ at a sitting) processing .223 and 9mm.

I think it would be smart for the OP to get a Dillon 1050 if he is frustrated with his LnL I hope he comes back and reports how perfectly it works every time, all the time. With what it costs, I sure hope it turns out that way because I still can't break even on reloading vs. store-bought even with my "cheapo" LnL.

Would I like a 1050, of course?

The case feeder is where all the frustration is coming from. I will spend some time this long weekend working to dial it in. I am not expecting thousands of rounds to be loaded without a hiccup. However I have yet to run 100 rounds without stopping several times.

So far the LnL has been a real pain in the ass. At first I had priming issues. I spent hours on the net and followed the suggestions I found online. Now priming is working good. I am having to do the same thing with the case feeder. I am not having much success this time around. I ran about 1500 .223 cases through to decap them. I had it working pretty decent from the tips I got in my other thread. Had 24 out of approx 1000 rounds tip. I ran them back through and only has 2 bad cases with rim bends. I tossed them. I was happy until I setup to load some prepped cases. I had tipping issues again and then after 100 or so rounds they would not eject right and were falling the wrong way or ending up pushed back into station one causing me to stop and correct. No the shell plate was not loose. First thing I checked.

So this weekend I plan to see if I can tinker with the case feeder and get it working to my expectations.

What are my expectations? Well I expect to be able to run a batch of ammo with little to no issues. Maybe a case or two tipping, maybe one primer pocket slipped past being reamed, maybe a jam in the case feeder bowl. I do not expect that with every pull of the handle to have some problem. I also am not expecting a Dillon to not have an issue now and then. just want the failure rate to be 1-2% not 50% like I have now. The whole reason I went progressive was so I could go into my workshop for a few hours and crank out 1000-1500 rounds. My son and I shoot about 500 rounds per range trip. On my single stage I was spending too much time loading 500 rounds.

I will see how I do this weekend. If up to my expectations I will be happy. If not, I will order a Dillon and run it and make my own judgement.

I did not get into reloading for the savings. That is how you sell your wife on it. I got into reloading because i thought I would enjoy it. I do when things are working. I can put together .223 for under $15/round not including brass. I bought some brass to start, picked up some at the range and saved some from shooting commercial ammo. I have about 6,000 cases so I am set for a few years. I also plan to move into some more expensive calibers and the savings there will be greater. I have loaded and shot about 5,000 rounds so far of .223. At current prices I am saving about $.12/round. A couple years ago the savings was much more significant when .223 was non-exisitant and guys were asking $1.00 per round.

I'll say it:
Started with a Lee went to a 550 then to a 650 and now I only have the Lee and a LNL. I didn't find the Dillon all that accurate for powder, and the cost of caliber changes was terrible, and I wanted a bullet feeder.  The hornady has been no more difficult than the 650. The pawls are my only complaint on the LNL just seems like a terrible system.

I had a LnL and never could get it to run worth a damn.  Shell plate alignment issues, priming issues, sticky ram probs, it just never worked.

Got a 650 last year and its been smooth sailing ever since.

Boo-YAH!

In 8 minutes of handle cranking time, my 650 spit out another 100 rounds of .223, all hiccup and glitch free.

Had problems with my 650 when I first got it.  Took the day off to load with it and had a primer issue. Dillon diagnosed it as the pawl that advances the primer disk.  I said I just just bought the machine and took the day off to use it. He laughed and said, well now you get to learn how the machine works and we will send you a new pawl.

Got a casefeeder for the 650. Once I mounted it, primers were getting mashed in PP.  Called dillon.  Needed tomreally brace my workbench.   Sfill had primer mashing.  Talked to a buddy and he said slow down, the balance of the machine is different with the casefeeder. I slowed my routine down (I was kinda harsh on the machine) and guess what, no more primer mash[BD

Thanks dillon...