I have had my Hornady LnL progressive press for almost 2 years. I load .223 on it. I finally broke down and bought the case feeder. While I like it I am a bit frustrated getting it to work good.

Here is my issue. When pushing the case into the shellplate the case tips and does not go all the way in without a little assistance to make it perfectly vertical. This happens on about 1/2 the cases. I am using a nice smooth motion , not jerking the handle. My bench is sturdy and the press is not shaking.

I have tried the #2 pusher and the #3.
I have adjusted the bent rod.
I have put dry lube on part where the case head slides.
I have checked to see if the retainer spring is sticking up.
I have remove the shell plate and cleaned it spotless.
Pawls are indexing good.

I am running out of ideas. My Google mojo is usually good but I have not found anything. I would appreciate any help or suggestions, not "buy a Dillon". Thanks!

It took me a bit to get mine reliable.  First, check your timing and tune this according to the instructions.   If that doesn't resolve the problem (got me from 50% to 75%) you may need to buff the lead ins on the shell plate.  I rounded and smoothed mine and now it's 95%.  I don't know if 100% is possible given the design.  I've tuned and timed progressive dies that run a million hits a week and I can't get it 100%

I will try to clarify with pics if you need.

If you could provide a few pics of how you modified the shell plate it would be appreciated.

I have adjusted it according to the instructions. I got up to 50% doing this. I even took the retaining spring off and I have the same issue so I know the spring is not the issue.

What # pusher are you using for .223?

Wow.......... that's not a very good insertion performance percentage for a piece of expensive gear.  I recently built my own case feeder and I very occasionally run into a case tipping problem which requires a bit of hand-holding.  But I would say I can feed at least 95 out of 100 cases without any manual intervention, and often the success is better than that.

I experienced quite a few tipped cases when I was developing and fine tuning my device and I found a couple of reasons.  Hand feeding is easy because putting the case into the plate is independent of the rotation; i.e. you stop the machine while you insert the case.  But since the automatic case insertion is controlled by the operation of the press, the timing is tricky.  That's because things happen quite quickly just as the shell plate indexes.  The shell plate indexes at the last moment and then, with very little available press movement remaining, you have to ram home the case at the last instant.  In other words, timing is everything.  The problem is made worse by the fact that the case is not held very firmly.  It's really just balanced on the case end and pushed into the shell plate without a very firm grip.  Therefore, the slightest disturbance can make the case stub it's toe, so to speak.

I experienced a problem with the case sitting slightly off center as it's waiting to be pushed into position.  In that instance, it would contact the leading edge or trailing edge of the shell plate notch as it was inserted into the shell plate and tip.  The solution was the addition of a little "U" shaped centering device attached to the case pusher which contacts the case about half way up.  As the shell pusher moves toward the shell plate and starts moving the case, an off-center case is nudged into the proper position so that when it arrives at the shell plate notch, it's in the perfectly centered position.  Once centered up,  it enters the shell plate notch cleanly.

I found that adjusting the indexing pawls and fiddling with the seating depth of the shell plate indexing balls (you can move them and change the tension with a punch if you're careful) helped make sure the shell plate was indexed properly in relation to the case pusher device.  If the shall plate is late or if the case pusher is early, the case can touch the leading edge of the notch in the shell plate and tip the case.  I don't know enough about the factory feeder to give specific advice, but try to take a slow motion look at the sequence and see if you can detect a slight timing problem between the shell plate and case pusher.  There is a tricky relationship between the indexing pawls, the spring loaded balls in the shell plate, and the timing of the shell pusher.  Sequencing at the last part of the event is critical.

You might see if your rifle's extractor is putting a burr on the case so that it is reluctant to slide into the shell plate.  Also, if you're decapping, a slightly proud primer can cause tipping problems.

Good luck.  Once you get your case feeder working reliably, you'll wonder how you got along without it.

There are two things that can cause the case to tip: the pusher isn't moving smoothly, and the surface the case is sliding on isn't smooth.  

Polish the surface the pusher runs on using a very fine polishing material.  I used Flitz and rubbed that stuff by hand until the area was clearly smooth.  It doesn't have to be mirror-like, but it needs to be free of milling marks and burrs.  Once it's all smooth, WAX the bottom of the pusher base (the part that runs on the cam wire) and the bottoms of your pusher tips as well.  I used canning wax and rubbed it on like I was scribbling with a crayon, then manually slid the pusher HARD on its raceway for a zillion times to get that part slipping nicely.  The pusher tips only need a light waxing, since they aren't really supposed to touch the sub-plate, but I'd do it anyway.

Next, polish BOTH the case drop area and its path to the shell holder AND the section of the sub-plate that the pusher shoves cases into the shell plate. That area is the most likely to cause cases to tip just as they line up with the shell plate.  Make it really smooth, but again, don't go for a mirror finish.  Watch for burrs around the EZJect stud, too.  You can use a fine stone to smooth that area, but only SMOOTH it.  And keep in mind that the case retainer spring needs to go into its groove at the proper spot, so that groove needs to be clean as well.

Recheck the cam wire timing at this point.  If it's making the pusher go forward too early, the case will run into the edge of the shell plate.  It can take only a small tweak to the cam wire's height to make a big difference in feeding.

Now look at your shell plate timing.  Is the case going into the shell plate straight?  If it's off just a little, that will also tilt the case.  Before using the case feeder, indexing could seem perfect, but it's the case feeder (and the EZJect function) that will really show whether or not your timing is perfect.

Finally, be ready to "help" cases now and then no matter how perfect everything is.  Because it comes down to the bottom of each case playing nicely with all the surfaces you've polished, waxed and fussed over.

Agree w/both GHPorter and Mozella - getting the case pusher timing is critical, but also fairly easy.  Cycle one slowly, and see where's it's contacting the shell plate..leave the ram in that position, and you can adjust the case pusher cam wire until it just pushes the case into the shell plate to get rough timing correct, then do minor tweaking from there.  I've also found expending the bottom of the drop (the last part of the tube, sitting below the 'swivel' piece cycling a case at a time) with a shotgun shell or piece of tubing also helps tipping issues, and finally, extending the pusher (I use #2) downwards can also help with any tendencies to tip or not feed perfectly.

Note the paper clip at the bottom of the pusher..

Thanks for the tips and experience.

Today I am going to do the following and I will report back.

1. I will go through pawl adjustment again and see if maybe the timing is off slightly. I will also play with the index detent balls again.
2. I will remove the shuttle and shell plate. I will polish the part where the case slides and wax.
3. I will go through the timing of the case feeder shuttle and make sure it is set perfect.
4. I will set aside the cases that do tip. I will check for damage, and headstamp.

Once I have done all this I will report back. Yes I am currently decapping tumbled cases. I have to remove primer crimps from a 5 gallon pail of cases. I have 3/4 of the way through the pail. I need to reload some later today for a shoot tomorrow. So I can also see if the problem exists with unprimed brass.

Keep your experiences and suggestions coming. This really helps. I like this press. Suggestions here helped me get the priming system working like a swiss watch. I don't really want to replace the press. If a case has trouble once and a while I am ok assisting it but when it is like 50% it pisses me off.

I echo the suggestions above.

I bought the press and then later (not too much later) the case feeder.

The key for me was two things, timing and extending the pusher shoe to the subplate.

Make sure your shell plate indexes as early as possible without jumping past the detent. This is accomplished by adjusting the left pawl as facing the press. Raise it until it pushes the plate past the detent and then back it off little by little until it's perfect.

Second, retard the case feeder shuttle as much as possible. You want to adjust the cam wire so the feeder JUST pushes the cartridge all the way into the shell plate. This will slow the arrival of the case and makes sure the shell plate is indexed in position when the case arrives. This solves a lot of tipping and general jamming problems.

I extended the shoe by cutting a piece of felt chair foot protector and sticking it to the bottom of the shoe so that it contacts the bottom of the case rim as it's sliding and helps it to remain vertical as it goes into the shell plate.

.223 cases are basically the hardest to run through the case feeder because of their height to diameter ratio. Get that one sorted out and everything else will run like butter.

Well here is latest update. I have about 20 cases that did not feed correctly. Most tipped some just did not go in far enough. I have segregated them. This is out of about 500 cases so far. I am pleased. Once I have finish the rest of my 5 gallon pail I will inspect the cases that did not feed correctly. If I can't see any issues I will mark and run them again. Any that still misfeed I will scrap.

I took all the advice. Here is what I did:
1. I took the shell plate off and the feed shuttle off. I cleaned it good with Gun Scrubber.
2. I then over adjusted the left pawl until the shell plate went past the detent. backed of tiny bit at a time until it was perfect. Then did the same for the right pawl.
3. I then put #2 foot on the shuttle.
4. The shuttle rod was reinstalled and the foot was tightened while holding a case in the shell plate.
5. Then I lowered the rod until the case was not inserted all the way.
6. I then raised the rod to move the shuttle into the shell plate more. I did a little at a time until it just put the case into the plate.

After this it still was not perfect but decent. I noticed the rim of the case was just hitting the shell plate. So I move the left pawl ever so slight and lowered the shuttle rod a tiny bit. After that it is working excellent.

Now to finish decapping all this brass. Then I will clean and change to loading. I have a few thousand prepped cases. I need to load some for tomorrow's shoot. I will see how the feeder works with my prepped brass. I figure if it works well with fired brass then it will work with prepped cases.

Biggest problem I have with misfeeds is whan you have brass fired in a chamber that allows the primer to swell past flush, tough for cases to sit flat with the primer sticking out the bottoom of the case.

These ones get run thru the single stage with the universal depriming die, then put back into the mix.

Yes, it's important to figure out what is causing the tipping. Seems an oversimplification, but that's the thing you want to fix lol.

One "adjustment" not mentioned at all in the above is to the pusher itself. It is possible to mount the pusher tilted sideways, or tilted up/down. These things can happen because of "burrs" or inconsistent surfaces on the pusher and its mount points, and by a certain amount of looseness in the attaching screw.

If the pusher is at a side-to-side angle, you can hit the shellplate even when the pawls are perfectly aligned.

If the pusher is tilted up, it will tend to tilt the case while pushing it.

The pusher should be able to push the case all the way to the back of its slot in the shellplate without ever touching the shellplate or tilting the case.

You can test the pusher by removing the shellplate. If cases don't tip, there's no need for polishing . . . the tipping is occurring BECAUSE the shellplate is there. Either the pusher is tweaked a bit sideways, the pawl timing is off, or something else is wrong when the sheelplate is in place

To piggy back on Twoboxer's statements, the manual will say "use pusher X for caliber Y," but this isn't always a perfect choice.  I've found this true with a number of rounds.  Try the pusher that the manual suggests.  If it doesn't push cases ALL THE WAY into the shell plate, try the next longer one.  I keep a log of what parts work best for which calibers.  I've made adjustments to which pusher I use with which caliber from experience.

Guys thanks for the help. I was able to decap approx 2000 rounds and I ended up with 2 rounds in the scrap bin due to damaged rims.

I then loaded 350 rounds to shoot later today. I had a little trouble with tipping during the loading session. These were cases I had prepped a while back.

I developed a new problem during the loading session. Some of the loaded rounds would not eject properly and ended up either falling the wrong way onto the shellplate or partially ejected and then pushed into the shell plate by the next empty case.

I am starting to really lose my patience with this press. Every time I use it there is some little issue that annoys me. Took a bit of time to "tune" the priming system to make that reliable. Although I still get the occasional missed primer.

I am about ready to pull the trigger on a Dillon and run that side by side and sell the one that pisses me off more. I want to like this press. I like the bushings, the powder measure is spot on and caliber changes don't require a different powder measure. However all this is moot if it does not work well.

Twoboxer,

The rims had extractor damage. Tossed them into the recycle bin. May or may not have been fired in one of my guns. I had only 2 our of 200 or so. I am not worried about it.

The tipping seemed to be a timing issue which I think I need to play with some more. During the decapping run I had that nearly perfect. I have a few thousand prepped cases and I grab some of them to load. I had a higher rate of tipping with these during loading. I will investigate further on another day.

The ejecting problem was very frustrating. Caused me to lose my rhythm and I think that was the source of the missing primers. The first 100 or so went nearly lfawless with a few tipped cases that needed a slight nudge. I was feeling good. Then after 100 or so they started to eject and fall onto the shellplate or worse partially eject and get shoved into station one by the shuttle with an empty case. This really pissed me off.

I can tell you the shellplate was not loose. When it acted up I checked that right away. I blew everything off with air.

My bench is new. Top is 2x4 framed 16" on center with 2 layers of 3/4" plywood glued and screwed. On top of that is a 3/4" tongue and groove oak surface glued and nailed. The bench is glued and screw to the foundation with Tapcoms. It is level too. I have an Inline fabrication quick change mount for the bench and press.

This coming weekend I will investigate and tinker some more. I am getting tired of working on the press instead of working the press. I understand there is a certain amount of maintenance to a progressive press but so far I have spent more time getting it to work than I have loading on it. When I bought it I envisioned setting it up, tuning it and then running 1,000 rounds per run. Now I get it working "good enough" so I can load a few hundred for a shoot. No chance to build a stockpile.

The EZJect lobe on the sub-plate needs to be smooth, the shell plate needs to be properly timed AND not too loose.  I've had more issues with the shell plate getting loose and messing up ejection than anything else.  With running through about 2500 cases/rounds today, it's easy for the shell plate to get loose.

I am going to work on the press and trying to dial it in this long weekend. If I can't get it to run reliably then I will try a Dillon 650. I know there are fanboys of both brands. The Dillon fans seem more rabid. Maybe for a reason, maybe not?

I just expect to be able to run 100 at a time with no issues. I feel like I could load ammo faster on a turret press than I can with this press and the case feeder. I am cool if say 1 or 2 feed problems per 100 cases. Now I am at like 50 problems per 100.

I expect ejecting to work properly too. Before the case feeder when I ran a batch I would have one case maybe fall but miss the bin. Not a big deal. This past weekend it started with every case either falling the wrong way or partially ejecting and then getting shoved into station 1 by the case feed shuttle and empty case. I did check the shell plate and it was tight. I will disassemble and clean with solvent and then lube and reassemble.

If anyone has any photos/video of mods they have done to get the feeder to feed .223 more reliably I would appreciate it.

Has anyone cut the tubing that holds the hopper? My basement ceiling is low, about 80". So my case feeder is almost against the floor joists. I measured and it looks like I can lower it just about 4" if I cut the square tubing.

The new issue with ejection is probably due to the amount of messing you did with the timing.  There's some flexibility in timing the shell plate for the case feeder, but not as much flexibility with ejection.  It sounds like your shell plate is getting the cases to the ejection lobe a little too soon (but that's just a guess at the moment).  And as I said, ejection is pretty remarkably affected by a loose shell plate.

I know for a fact it is not the shell plate being loose. I will look at timing again and see if I can dial things in. I want this press to work. I had it working excellent until I added the case feeder. So it I can get the case feeder figured out I am golden.

One thing that is of absolute importance on the Hornady presses is the timing.  For better or worse, Hornady decided to make the timing adjustable.

I should have replied sooner, but the most important thing with these presses is to make sure the timing is absolutely on, before adding the case feeder.

The case feeder Z bar needs to be adjusted to the presses timing, not adjust the timing to suit the case feeder.  

When I set mine up I had to adjust the Z bar so the case feeder was just starting to push the case into the shell plate.  Think if it just like gears meshing.  Its all about timing.  :)

I did a couple of other mods to fix some issues as well.  Heres a link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/443551_Hornady_LnL_case_feeder_tuning.html

Kaldor, thanks for the link. I have bookmarked it for future reference.

I had success today!

I want to thank all of you who took the time to respond. I took things apart and cleaned and lubed it, again. Probably did not need it but figured I would start from square one.

Then I watched "Highboy's" (Bill Morgan) videos, #42, 43, and 44. The one for adjusting the pawls was very good. I did it 4 or 5 times to practice. I had the timing very good and I was pretty happy but the shell plate seemed to still jump into the detent. I used a punch and moved the detent balls up a little bit. This really made it smooth. I noticed in Highboy's videos his shell plate moved smooth and did not jump into position. After I moved the detent balls my shell plate moved like the video.

Once I was confident the timing was spot on I then tried to feed cases using the case feeder. Still had a 50% fail rate with tipping. I marked the shell plate to see if it was one position that was giving me trouble. I ended up finding all the spots had issues so i ruled out the plate. I marked some cases and and fed them again but it was not the same cases. So I am confident my issue was not with the plate or cases.

Now I moved on to the case feeder. To start with I moved the z bar down all the way and raised it a turn at a time until I had the shell going all the way into the plate. Then I pulled the handle a few times. A couple more tweaks of the z bar and I had it pretty good.

At this point I was starting to smile and had a glimmer of hope that this press would actually work to my expectations.I then pulled the handle for 50 rounds or so. I had about 6-8 that tipped. I noticed if I held the handle down, so the press was at the top of the stroke and held it for a split second the cases fed much better. If I did not "dwell" at the top of the stroke I had more tipped cases. I practiced my technique for another 50 cases now I only had 3 or 4 that tipped.

The last thing I did was add a piece of felt to the bottom of the pusher foot. Had to play with the piece a few times until it was just right. Again I did maybe 20 rounds with no issues.

Now I decided I was ready to install the dies and check operation. I had to tweak the right pawl just a hair. Once I had it timed to where I thought it was spot on I loaded 100 primers and filled the powder measure.

I loaded 100 rounds and had to assist a case, with just a flick of a flick of a finger, two times. Priming also was much smoother. I also had no ejection problems.

At the moment I am really happy. Tomorrow or Sunday I will load 2-300 rounds and see how things go. If it works like today I am very happy.

Thanks to all of you who helped with suggestions and ideas. The online community is really wonderful. You guys rock!

Well I ran another batch of 100 tonight. Only had two cases that needed a bit of help.

I did have a primer that would not seat and it messed me up but not the press' fault. I think one crimped primer pocket slipped through.

Well now I am happy and am on the lookout for a single stage press.

Me too. I have learned a ton from all the guys here and online. This is why I really enjoy the forums. I was ready to scrap the press and try another brand.

Tomorrow I will run a couple hundred more rounds. I can hopefully start building my stash of reloads.

Thanks again to all who helped.

Glad you got it sorted.  I finally got to take a vacation or probably would have had some more to add RE: case feeder besides the pic I posted with the 'pusher' added to the shuttle...looks like you made one out of foam, anything will work, just need to push evenly and lower for some cases.

I'm also glad you went through trying to work out your issues - from the other thread, along with others, I'm always left wondering how many people really try (and listen to others) to get their press sorted, before coming to some conclusion.  I've got no doubt a handful of presses got out there that need to go back to Hornady (or Dillon, or RCBS...), but most can be made to run with a bit of patience and mostly one-time setup/adjustment.  I wish more people would go into detail (with pics, if possible) of what issue they're having, to give people a chance to help them.

One thing I'm not sure I see mentioned - did you add an extension to the bottom case drop, either a piece of plastic tubing or a cut up shotshell?  I've found this helps reduce tips when dropping in front of the shuttle..
Not a great pic, but if you follow the feeder tube to the bottom, you can see where it's 'extended' via a piece of plastic tubing...with a cut around the shuttle.

No I did not add anything to the bottom of the case drop tube. I was looking at some pics and I see a lot of guys do that. I may try and find some clear tubing this week and try it.

Also I was looking at the case drop tube and was thinking if the inner diameter was smaller it would prevent the wobble. Someday I might see about making one when I get my lathe.

I think if I can dial this n for .223 then the large rifle calibers will work fine.

Once your timing is working well, the extension on the case drop will smooth things out even more.  It prevents cases from bouncing, tipping over, and from landing on the sub plate where they won't be as easily caught by the pusher.  It took me from having to manually catch around 25% of 9mm and .380 cases to "watching" the cases to make sure they didn't tip when they slid past the case retainer spring groove.  It helps with rifle cases too.

Your experience has reminded me that I want to assess my own press' timing.  It might need a touch up.  I'm sure it could stand lube.  (Don't forget to put a little lube on those pawls, because they need to be able to drop down as the cam passes them.  I learned that the hard way...)

Yep, thats pretty normal.  I need to flick probably 1 in 40-50 cases as well, not a big deal as I my hand is right there with the bullet that Im going to set anyway.  Finding a smooth rhythm makes a big difference as well.

Single stage?  Just buy a Hornady.  Being able to drop dies from one press to another it handy, especially if you adjust the die height on the single stage to match the progressive.  Go watch this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXaB_I4nrhY
I havent done it yet, but it should work fine.

I considered doing that. But once I thought about it I went with a different press. If you calibrate the single stage to the progressive it works great until you change the shell holder. This is not a big consideration for me anyway.

I do like Redding stuff. I grew up in the town where Redding is manufactured and like to support companies in my hometown. I was tossed up what to buy. I ended up ordering a Forster co-ax.

I like the idea of no shell plate and the quick slide in and out of dies. I can put a universal decap die in it and decap all the range pickup brass. I save calibers I don't even shoot, let alone reload but like to tumble it and store it away. I also want to be able to pull bullets when the need arises.

Well one more slight tweak to one of the pawls today. Then I loaded 100 rounds without one problem. I did not have to help one case at all.

I owe it to all you guys for getting me squared away. Thanks again!!!

Awesome; great to hear!