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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:10:35 PM EDT
[#1]
I reload for a friend; he simply doesn't have the time and it's a fairly odd caliber (.264 Win Mag) that is difficult to find. He buys the components and I assemble them. I do check them in the rifle he uses and I fire them for accuracy. I also load for my nephew's .243 model 788- it's the most finicky rifle I have ever seen and will not shoot just any loading accurately.
The way I see it, if my loads don't blow up my gun, they're not gonna blow up anyone else's because I use the exact same methods and take the exact same steps with all my reloading. State laws may vary, but generally, if you ain't making ammo for sale, you're OK and you can let anyone use your reloading equipment- it's no different than using any other tool- just give them the instruction they need to operate it safely. I've taught dozens of folks how to reload using my equipment and my brother-in-law uses my gear to load his .30-30's. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't mind reloading for family if they buy the components. I'm not selling re-manufactured ammo so I don't see where I would be liable should anything bad happen.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:31:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I believe it's completely legal to load ammo not-for-profit for friends and family, especially if they provide the components. The second you try to sell hand loaded ammo directly to the public you are required to have the appropriate FFL, state sales tax number and insurance.
I don't have enough time to load all my ammo used during the summer months and I'm retired. I spend close to 1.5 months in the winter restocking each year. I like the idea that you're willing to walk him through the process. A new convert will likely be made. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:34:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Let say that if somehow a double charge were to get by unnoticed. Said person fires the double charge and possibly blows the pistol/rifle. Or a round doesnt get its full charge and creates a squib. Said person doesnt think anything of it for whatever reason. They then fire another round not knowing the previous bullet is lodged in the barrel and creats a kaboom. And these were rounds I loaded for a friend or family.
If they really wanted to, couldnt they take legal action? Im not trying to create an argument or anything, just looking for clarification on the subject. I have never had a double charge or a squib from my reloads. I practice extreme caution at all times to avoid the worst case scenario and would do the same if I were to load other peoples ammo. But accidents do happen and things do get by people sometimes. This is why I ask all these questions. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:55:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Would hope not but if they choose to hold you liable for your remanufactured ammunition injuring them or your equipment on your property injuring them then yes they can. At least around here.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:57:35 PM EDT
[#6]
I reload for my dad, but only because i can load the rounds and work them up in his rifle and well...its my dad.
ive been asked several times by friends and i refuse to load for them, i dont want the liability. I also dont shoot handloads from others. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 5:03:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Meh, I reload pistol rounds for my lawyer and he loads precision rifle rounds for me. I'll let you know if I get sued or have to sue him
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Posted: 8/18/2014 5:15:27 PM EDT
[#8]
if friends want to load ammo on my presses i will show them how - tell them what to buy, or split bulk orders with them.
I have loaded ammo for friends if they provide the components and traded my time for conversion kit pieces on the Dillon. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 5:15:29 PM EDT
[#9]
I won't reload for anyone period!
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Posted: 8/18/2014 6:04:52 PM EDT
[#10]
I reload for me and my two sons. I would not reload for others, however I would gladly teach someone to reload and allow them to use my equipment.
Had an old friend that would help reload for his small circle of friends on his Dillon 1050's. He had a simple policy that kept everyone honest. When a friend came over he would have the guy load the first 10 rounds. All of the loaded rounds were mixed together so that no finger pointing could take place in the event of some type of accident. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 6:16:21 PM EDT
[#11]
I've loaded for dad and a friend/brother.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 6:23:17 PM EDT
[#12]
I reload for several family members as well as friends.
They buy the components needed and I label everything with their name's. Do you let anyone shoot your rifle? Pistol? What do you think would happen if it blew up in their hand? Would you change your friends oil, tire or help them with a plumbing problem? Everything in life has a liability. It's up to you to be proficient and well educated in completing the tasks you set out for. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:35:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I won't reload for anyone period! That's pretty much how I'm feeling about this. I think I'm going to tell him I will not load the ammo for him. And that he is more than welcome to buy the components and come on over for some lessons. I'll have him tag along on my next trip to the local shop for supplies as I do not buy enough at one time to justify bulk buying online. Maybe he would be willing to split the cost and we could make a large order and cover half of the hazmat fee. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:11:46 AM EDT
[#14]
I have loaded for my brother in a rifle that I knew the headspace of and with a load I knew was well within safe margins. I have also been at the range and let a friend shoot my 9mm loads through his gun and vice versa. The biggest problem would be using ammo that is loaded long, hot, or with excessive headspace. You can make rounds that should function in most firearms, but there is always the danger of human error and out of spec firearms.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:19:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I won't reload for anyone period! This. Now like you stated, he can come over and learn to do it himself. That's what I have done in the past. You bring your components and dies and I have the rest to educate and supervise you. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:34:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Your concern should be getting caught up in some law suit related to his use of your reloads that injured/killed a third party whether accidental or not.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:40:23 AM EDT
[#17]
I've decided that if wants to go through with it, he can buy his own components. Then I will supervise him on his reloading journey. Thank all of you for your advise!
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:43:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Agree, showing and training is the way to go. Amazing how a friendship can go south do to an accident and subsequent lawsuit. I have seen siblings battle over money after a death, it is not pretty.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:06:39 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't reload for anyone else.
If someone I shoot with wants to learn I'll have him over to use my press any day, then it's less liability. I might let someone shoot one of my guns using my reloads, but I always mention that so they can bug out if they're concerned. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:48:10 AM EDT
[#20]
the only thing you have to be careful of is making ammo yourself then selling it for cash. i believe that requires an FFL of some type. but trading for goods or letting him do it himself on your machine, those options should be fully legal.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:51:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the only thing you have to be careful of is making ammo yourself then selling it for cash. i believe that requires an FFL of some type. but trading for goods or letting him do it himself on your machine, those options should be fully legal. Be careful. To trade is still considered to sale, pretty much everywhere. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't mind reloading for family if they buy the components. I'm not selling re-manufactured ammo so I don't see where I would be liable should anything bad happen. You might want to talk to an attorney about that Also, there are issues with not having an FFL and reloading for others if they give you anything |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:53:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Depends.
I reload for my dad's deer rifle. I also reload for my deer rifle. He's got a 7mm Win Mag and I've got a .284 Win (most of my pre-reloading .284 loads were reloaded by someone long before I was born). Both the same bullets and both use the same powders. However, I load those two rounds a little differently from .223 or 9mm (stuff I shoot all the time). Use a volumetric measure (I don't dump into the case) then I take and weigh the charge before pouring it into the case. I will only load with one caliber's components on the table at a time when I do that. Allows me to ensure that I have consistent charges. Most of my rifle powders when loaded with the charge for that rifle, a double will overflow out of the case. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:12:11 PM EDT
[#24]
I have a friend who wants me to load 30-06 for him. I'd load it for him because I know what to check and I could make it close to factory spec with a medium load and it would be safe. Letting someone else use your machine just means you don't trust yourself. Here is the risk I see...If I used your machine and loaded a bullet that ruined my gun I'd sue you (let us not leave out the make believe) because you told me the machine was setup and you knew I had not reloaded before, blah blah blah your tools, at your house, under your supervision of an inexperienced loader because you don't trust yourself enough to load for someone else seems worse than asking to borrow their gun for a day after making 10-12 loads and testing them for velocity.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 5:26:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Conventional wisdom is not to reload for anyone. Having said that I have reloaded for very few (2) family and friend, pistol only. I also have had people use my equipment under my supervision.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 6:08:06 AM EDT
[#26]
I don't reload for anyone. No one's every asked because everyone I know who shoots already has their own equipment.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 7:55:36 AM EDT
[#27]
I reload for my brother because he doesn't have the time or equipment. Like someone previously stated, the way I reload for myself is the same way I reload for him.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 8:23:16 AM EDT
[#28]
I reload for myself and two of my friends. They usually buy the components or we split the cost and I don't charge them. They usually come over and I show them what to do and explain what they are doing. I carefully explained to them that if their gun blows up it's their problem and not mine. I don't mind helping my friends, but only if they are aware that I assume no liability. I probably should get that in writing though.
From the BATFE website: Q:(paraphrase) Does a reloader need an ffl? Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use. [18 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 478.41] |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 8:41:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I reload for myself and two of my friends. They usually buy the components or we split the cost and I don't charge them. They usually come over and I show them what to do and explain what they are doing. I carefully explained to them that if their gun blows up it's their problem and not mine. I don't mind helping my friends, but only if they are aware that I assume no liability. I probably should get that in writing though. From the BATFE website: Q:(paraphrase) Does a reloader need an ffl? Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use. [18 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 478.41] And barter (extra components) is STILL 'income' and 'profit. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 9:33:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The other day, a very close family friend asked me if I would reload some ammo for him. He said he would buy all the components and even buy some extra for me to keep. I told him no for a few different reasons. Main reason being that I would feel horrible if something were to go wrong with any of the rounds. I also explained how I would legally be liable for any injuries/damage that comes from a bad round. I did however tell him he is more than welcome to buy the components and come on over to the house. I would then help him get his feet wet in the world of reloading. Walking him through the process and explaining as he goes. He would be doing all the work while I watch over his shoulders. Would me allowing him to use my reloading set up be breaking any laws, or put me at any kind of risk? Can anybody clarify what would be considered unlawful and what is allowed? While we're at it, have any of you been in this situation? If so, feel free to explain if you wish. That's the Same way I have handled it in the past. Beyond the reasons listed, I didn't buy my press to become the worlds ammo factory. It seemed that everyone also wanted to buy my inventoried components as well...nah, to that too. Not saying I won't load up a few hundred for my teammates from time to time, but loading ammo is like mowing grass. I'll help you out if you really need it, but it's not something I wanted to do all the time. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 9:40:49 AM EDT
[#31]
I reload subsonic 9mm for one person. Exact same specifications as the ammo that I load for myself. The guy I load for is a competent shooter and very methodical.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 11:18:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I reload for myself and two of my friends. They usually buy the components or we split the cost and I don't charge them. They usually come over and I show them what to do and explain what they are doing. I carefully explained to them that if their gun blows up it's their problem and not mine. I don't mind helping my friends, but only if they are aware that I assume no liability. I probably should get that in writing though. From the BATFE website: Q:(paraphrase) Does a reloader need an ffl? Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use. [18 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 478.41] "Personal use". I was told by an ATF agent (she did my interview when I got my FFL) the only person that can use a reload is the person who did the reloading. The smart way to go is to teach your friends how to use your machine and let them reload their own ammo. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:34:31 PM EDT
[#33]
No, and have been asked several times.
We don't shoot other peoples reloads, right? 
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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:30:43 PM EDT
[#34]
We don't shoot other peoples reloads, right? Got four buddies I shoot with , non of us have a problem with shooting each others loads, we are getting close to teaching a fifth person how to reload and when we do his will be just fine and no worry about grabing a few to shoot Maybe I'm just lucky to have the caliber of guys to shoot with that I do, now I do know some folks that if they were shooting in a lane next to me and said they had reload their rounds I'd move down a space |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 9:18:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And barter (extra components) is STILL 'income' and 'profit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I reload for myself and two of my friends. They usually buy the components or we split the cost and I don't charge them. They usually come over and I show them what to do and explain what they are doing. I carefully explained to them that if their gun blows up it's their problem and not mine. I don't mind helping my friends, but only if they are aware that I assume no liability. I probably should get that in writing though. From the BATFE website: Q:(paraphrase) Does a reloader need an ffl? Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use. [18 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 478.41] And barter (extra components) is STILL 'income' and 'profit.  |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 9:24:08 PM EDT
[#36]
To be honest, in my situation, the most expensive component, is my time. So unless I'm keeping HALF of the components/loaded ammo the other person paid for I wouldn't even think about it. BUT I also dont want to be the guy who somehow blew someone's gun up. When I'm shooting, I know EXACTLY what to look/feel/listen for to know if I've got a squib or overpressured ammo. I know for a fact those that would want me to reload for them wouldn't.
I did reload 300-400 rounds of .38 special for my father so he could afford to shoot his .357. It was cheap as hell to reload for, but then of course he wanted to show off my work and gave a 100rd box to someone else which I wasn't really happy about since I told him exactly what to look out for because I'm not perfect. But I do take my time and double check everything. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 10:19:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Your reloads may be perfect but if they're for someone else you can not know what condition their firearm is in every shot. A little dried mud in a barrel and your reload could ruin more than a friendship.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 12:32:47 AM EDT
[#38]
My dad taught me to reload, so I do that for him every month for the local HP match, but we both run S/S 20" 1-8 twist HBARs on our ARs, so NBD. Every now and then, I'll load for someone else's AR for the match, and I'll drop to a moderate charge. Other than that, if I load for others, I inspect the firearm when I'm measuring headspace, am very meticulous with each round, and I'm usually at the range with them to help shoot and inspect brass and accuracy.
I won't load for folks or firearms I don't trust. If in doubt, don't do it. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 1:23:52 AM EDT
[#39]
if your so worried have them sign a waiver or contract
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:46:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Im not "so worried". I was just asking a series of questions as to what could happen legally if something were to go south. And for other peoples opinions in a situation like this. And yes, I did think about having a contract of some sort written. But that all changed when I decided to just play it safe and not load for him. Instead, I will tech him how to roll his own.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:47:59 AM EDT
[#41]
I've been happy to show my brothers how to reload their own ammo on my press
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Posted: 8/21/2014 4:36:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've decided that if wants to go through with it, he can buy his own components. Then I will supervise him on his reloading journey. Thank all of you for your advise! this is the right way to do it. not only for liability, but he also learns how. Personally I would not allow him to pay me in any way, like with components, beers, favors or cash. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:55:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im not "so worried". I was just asking a series of questions as to what could happen legally if something were to go south. And for other peoples opinions in a situation like this. And yes, I did think about having a contract of some sort written. But that all changed when I decided to just play it safe and not load for him. Instead, I will tech him how to roll his own. My brother in law asked me to load some 9mm for him. I offered to show him how using my press. He came over and realized how much work actually goes into it and decided factory was the way to go for him. Although I now have an additional brass hound since he knows to pick it up and throw it in the bag for me 
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Posted: 8/22/2014 2:18:44 PM EDT
[#44]
I did it for a friend or two when I first started loading, but no time for that now
I can barely load enough for my own shooting  .
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Posted: 8/23/2014 8:00:44 AM EDT
[#45]
I've had a few askbut I always so no, but you can come over, reload on my machines using my components.
No one ever stepped up. When I work on my cars a guy at my work helps. He did the coolant refresh on my Beemer. He took everything off, told me he hoped I paid attention since he had other things to do but let him know if I got stuck. He was watching from a distance. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:48:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let say that if somehow a double charge were to get by unnoticed. Said person fires the double charge and possibly blows the pistol/rifle. Or a round doesnt get its full charge and creates a squib. Said person doesnt think anything of it for whatever reason. They then fire another round not knowing the previous bullet is lodged in the barrel and creats a kaboom. And these were rounds I loaded for a friend or family. If they really wanted to, couldnt they take legal action? Im not trying to create an argument or anything, just looking for clarification on the subject. I have never had a double charge or a squib from my reloads. I practice extreme caution at all times to avoid the worst case scenario and would do the same if I were to load other peoples ammo. But accidents do happen and things do get by people sometimes. This is why I ask all these questions. When this scenario is a possibility, then you should not load for someone else. I've done it, but I had to have the rifle for test firing before turning ammo and the rifle back over to the owner. Didn't charge for the work. I wouldn't do it again with that particular rifle, it was a pain in the ass. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 4:34:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Handloading for sale requires licenses, permits, and hefty liability insurance to the both the licensing requirements and the liability. Handloading for free for family or friends involves a lessor degree of risk (and therefore a liability exposure), but certainly not zero. Driving your friend to the store or gunshop also involves risk and liability exposure too.
You as an individual, need to decide how much risk (and liability) you are willing to accept. I don't handload for anyone for sale. I don't handload for anyone for trade. I don't handload for anyone in anticipation of anything in return. I do handload for my use. I do handload for my son as a free gift for his use with me at our range. I do let some close friends shoot one of my firearms and use some of my ammo for free when I take them out with me. I do let new shooters shot my firearms and use my ammo when I teaching them the proper use of firearms and shooting techniques, however, this is free instruction given by me is meant to simply introduce them to the shooting sports. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 5:37:11 PM EDT
[#48]
I reload for myself. I let my family shoot my reloads if they happen to be shooting with me. I've also swapped a few handfuls of reloads with a coworker who also reloads for testing purposes, ect.
I would not reload specifically to supply another person with ammo. I can barely keep pace with my own needs lol. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:00:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I reload for me and my two sons. I would not reload for others, however I would gladly teach someone to reload and allow them to use my equipment. Had an old friend that would help reload for his small circle of friends on his Dillon 1050's. He had a simple policy that kept everyone honest. When a friend came over he would have the guy load the first 10 rounds. All of the loaded rounds were mixed together so that no finger pointing could take place in the event of some type of accident. Your fried is a pretty sharp dude. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:10:56 PM EDT
[#50]
I have reloaded .270WIN for a close friend. He bought the bullets and powder, and I gave him some primers and brass. We used my equipment, and I taught him how to prep and load his rounds. We did a standard workup and found a load that was fairly accurate. After that I loaded around 50 rounds for him. I made clear to him up front that I was not responsible if his rifle blew up, and in return he trusted me to use the same care and attention to detail in loading for his rifle that I would when loading for my own rifles.
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