Best powder for 147gr loads?

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Posted: 7/19/2014 7:44:13 AM EDT

I shoot lots of 147gr loads suppressed. I initially started with power pistol but it was really loud.

I've been using 231. I can't remember offhand the charge and I'm not at home. I do remember the velocity being up there for 9mm 147gr pistol loads. I have it written down. I just know it's probably high pressure so eventually I want something that is more forgiving if I have a slight overcharge etc.

I don't want to use vv powder or power pistol.

I was considering blue dot, aa#7, or unique. I am open to suggestions.

I would prefer velocity at least 900 fps in a full size pistol but more is better provided it's a safe load.

Posted: 7/19/2014 8:21:45 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I shoot lots of 147gr loads suppressed. I initially started with power pistol but it was really loud.

I've been using 231. I can't remember offhand the charge and I'm not at home. I do remember the velocity being up there for 9mm 147gr pistol loads. I have it written down. I just know it's probably high pressure so eventually I want something that is more forgiving if I have a slight overcharge etc.

I don't want to use vv powder or power pistol.

I was considering blue dot, aa#7, or unique. I am open to suggestions.

I would prefer velocity at least 900 fps in a full size pistol but more is better provided it's a safe load.

View Quote

I have used AA#5, Titegroup and CFE Pistol for 147 gr lead or plated bullets at approximately 900 fps. My favorite was AA#5, CFE pistol may replace it as it works about the same and is more available.

Posted: 7/19/2014 8:58:38 AM EDT

[#2]

Imr 4756 & hodgdon long shot works for me

Posted: 7/19/2014 9:00:58 AM EDT

[#3]

Faster powders will work better.

Titegroup
WST
Clays
Universal (not that you'll be able to find any)
Red Dot
etc

Posted: 7/19/2014 10:20:53 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Faster powders will work better.

Titegroup
WST
Clays
Universal (not that you'll be able to find any)
Red Dot
etc

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I figured faster powders have to be pretty high pressure to reach 900 fps. Am I wrong?

Posted: 7/19/2014 10:23:59 AM EDT

[#5]

Not necessarily. They will be much quieter.

Posted: 7/19/2014 10:40:52 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not necessarily. They will be much quieter.

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Are those powders you listed going to be any better for 147gr than 231? I guess maybe I should stick with it.

Posted: 7/19/2014 10:43:32 AM EDT

[#7]

I can speak for WST, Titegroup, and Red Dot as being great. I've used them.

Posted: 7/19/2014 11:02:43 AM EDT

[#8]

The load range for Universal was 3.0gr-3.3gr I believe which was too narrow for me so I ordered 8lb of Longshot to try as it is 3.8gr-4.7gr I believe. I will find out in a few months when it shows up. I have 16lb of Universal but load on a 550B so wanted a bigger cushion.

Posted: 7/19/2014 11:13:47 AM EDT

[#9]

Unique. I had some issues with 231 and 147 gr loads. I am not sure of the cause, but they didn't seem to have consistent ignition or power.

I think some old data books and some manuals may have 147gr load data for 231, but there is no data in their current on line manual and I think there is a reason for that.....

Posted: 7/19/2014 11:25:27 AM EDT

[#10]

Started with #5,, work fine at 5gr,, but had tendancy to get debris/flash from eject port.. Used some 3N37 that I had for 38 Super race gun, it was good, just $$$.. Played with WST, but wasnt happy with recoil impulse for open bolt gun,, then stepped into TITEGROUP,, have not looked back since (maybe 7yr ago).. had 3-4lb from while back, just loaded (4000) with it earlier this yr, and scored (6) more bottle a few month ago to have on hand for my 9mm loadings

Posted: 7/19/2014 11:27:58 AM EDT

[#11]

Starting to test CFE Pistol now because the supply of Titegroup dried up.

Posted: 7/19/2014 11:39:00 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
The load range for Universal was 3.0gr-3.3gr I believe which was too narrow for me so I ordered 8lb of Longshot to try as it is 3.8gr-4.7gr I believe. I will find out in a few months when it shows up. I have 16lb of Universal but load on a 550B so wanted a bigger cushion.

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Longshot is a good powder but not ideal if you want to use the load with a suppressor. It will be louder.

Posted: 7/19/2014 12:23:42 PM EDT

[#13]

I am also about to switch to coated cast bullets. I tried some of these in .45. They work great with zero leading. The coating stays in tact and the base is covered so they actually run a little cleaner than exposed base fmj. These have no lube grooves either. The pic is .45 as I haven't received the 9mm yet.

Posted: 7/19/2014 1:29:05 PM EDT

[#14]

Medium speed powders will work better than fast ones like W231.

For 147 grain 9mm loads I like Power Pistol. Good velocity and burns very cleanly at the higher pressures of 9mm.
AA#7 would also work well.

Posted: 7/19/2014 1:56:17 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Medium speed powders will work better than fast ones like W231.

For 147 grain 9mm loads I like Power Pistol. Good velocity and burns very cleanly at the higher pressures of 9mm.
AA#7 would also work well.

View Quote

Power pistol makes my suppressed 9mm louder than my suppressed .45.

Posted: 7/19/2014 3:19:06 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

Power pistol makes my suppressed 9mm louder than my suppressed .45.

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H. Universal then.

Possibly CFE-Pistol if you could actually find a pound to try. Supposed to be very clean as well.

Posted: 7/19/2014 3:57:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Medium speed powders will work better than fast ones like W231.

For 147 grain 9mm loads I like Power Pistol. Good velocity and burns very cleanly at the higher pressures of 9mm.
AA#7 would also work well.

View Quote

The problem is they are generally louder.

Posted: 7/19/2014 4:49:02 PM EDT

[#18]

at this point any powder you can find....assuming you can find it.

Posted: 7/19/2014 5:56:32 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
at this point any powder you can find....assuming you can find it.

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I have 12 lbs of 231. I understand it may be awhile before I can get much of anything else. I still want to plan ahead for when I can get something else. I like 231 for .45.

I am home now. My 231 load for 147gr is 4gr which is over max in some manuals. I would not use that with my new coated cast bullets. There was one manual which I can't remember that went up to 4.3gr. I have fired at least 3k rds of this load with no signs of over pressure. Most people say 3.5gr is max but it makes a puny load. I want to change to something else. I may have to deal with slightly louder report.

Posted: 7/19/2014 6:33:11 PM EDT

[#20]

I may try Ramshot True Blue or Silhouette.

Posted: 7/19/2014 7:31:02 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
I may try Ramshot True Blue or Silhouette.

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Must be Regional. I've been handloading since 1991, and have never seen a single pound of ANY Ramshot pistol powder in person.

Posted: 7/19/2014 7:44:34 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:

Must be Regional. I've been handloading since 1991, and have never seen a single pound of ANY Ramshot pistol powder in person.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I may try Ramshot True Blue or Silhouette.

Must be Regional. I've been handloading since 1991, and have never seen a single pound of ANY Ramshot pistol powder in person.

I haven't either. I have ordered every component I have used in the last decade in bulk from powder valley.

I will just place a backorder and wait.

Posted: 7/20/2014 7:37:31 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Started with #5,, work fine at 5gr,, but had tendancy to get debris/flash from eject port.. Used some 3N37 that I had for 38 Super race gun, it was good, just $$$.. Played with WST, but wasnt happy with recoil impulse for open bolt gun,, then stepped into TITEGROUP,, have not looked back since (maybe 7yr ago).. had 3-4lb from while back, just loaded (4000) with it earlier this yr, and scored (6) more bottle a few month ago to have on hand for my 9mm loadings

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What bullet mfg and how many grs TG you using? Looking at the 147 RN .356 from Xtreme shooting out of a 19 & 17 with LW threaded bbls.
http://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-147-RN-p/xc9mm-147rn-b0500.htm

I have a bunch of the 124's on hand.

Posted: 7/20/2014 8:15:24 AM EDT

[#24]

I like #7 with 147 plated
Scored some yesterday, along with a couple others ;)

Posted: 7/20/2014 9:31:15 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I like #7 with 147 plated
Scored some yesterday, along with a couple others ;)
http://i.imgur.com/Q9VwLDM.jpg

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+1 for A A #7. I used it because it was all I could find at the time but it has worked very well for me.

Posted: 7/20/2014 9:41:40 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

+1 for A A #7. I used it because it was all I could find at the time but it has worked very well for me.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I like #7 with 147 plated
Scored some yesterday, along with a couple others ;)
http://i.imgur.com/Q9VwLDM.jpg

+1 for A A #7. I used it because it was all I could find at the time but it has worked very well for me.

What charge? Im using 6gr

Posted: 7/20/2014 9:42:29 AM EDT

[#27]

Dbl tap

Posted: 7/20/2014 2:10:02 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Longshot is a good powder but not ideal if you want to use the load with a suppressor. It will be louder.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The load range for Universal was 3.0gr-3.3gr I believe which was too narrow for me so I ordered 8lb of Longshot to try as it is 3.8gr-4.7gr I believe. I will find out in a few months when it shows up. I have 16lb of Universal but load on a 550B so wanted a bigger cushion.

Longshot is a good powder but not ideal if you want to use the load with a suppressor. It will be louder.

No suppressor at this time they were just a good deal so I bought 14K of them :) I have factory threaded barrels for a G19 and G17 just not sure if I want a can nor what to get.

Posted: 7/20/2014 2:24:20 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

No suppressor at this time they were just a good deal so I bought 14K of them :) I have factory threaded barrels for a G19 and G17 just not sure if I want a can nor what to get.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The load range for Universal was 3.0gr-3.3gr I believe which was too narrow for me so I ordered 8lb of Longshot to try as it is 3.8gr-4.7gr I believe. I will find out in a few months when it shows up. I have 16lb of Universal but load on a 550B so wanted a bigger cushion.

Longshot is a good powder but not ideal if you want to use the load with a suppressor. It will be louder.

No suppressor at this time they were just a good deal so I bought 14K of them :) I have factory threaded barrels for a G19 and G17 just not sure if I want a can nor what to get.

That's certainly a good reason.

The only reason I mentioned the suppressor is due to the thread author wanting to shoot suppressed.

Posted: 7/20/2014 4:08:12 PM EDT

[#30]

Please tell me the cfe pistol works well as I have four pounds of it(the only pistol powder I could find anywhere).
I have a box of 147 extreme bullets to be loaded.

Posted: 7/20/2014 4:38:30 PM EDT

[#31]

I have shot about 6000 now of the following for USPSA minor:

147gr cast @ 1.145
3.1gr WST
Mixed Brass
Federal SPP
870 AV
5 SD
128 PF

Yes, the charge is light, but I can't argue with the chrono.

Very quiet and recoils like a rimfire. I had to downspring my Glocks to cycle it 100%- 15b RSA in a G34.

I'm about to switch to 125gr coated.

Posted: 7/20/2014 5:48:37 PM EDT

[#32]

For 147 gr, I finally settled on WSF. General guidance from all I've read, has been to stay away from faster powders with the 147 gr. 9mm bullets.

Posted: 7/20/2014 7:51:39 PM EDT

[#33]

The only thing I use for subsonic 147gr rounds is fast burning powder. Otherwise the unburnt powder will get in the can, mix with air, ignite making a louder report. I recommend the OP download the powder burn rate chart and try powders close to burn speed of 231 if he likes the load with his can. I use powders like Power Pistol to achieve max power factor but would never consider them for a suppressed handgun as too much powder leaving the muzzle. As far as the round having some knockdown power that is predetermined since suppressed you are limited to ~1000fps no matter what the bullet weight. If you want to knock something down then supersonic 147gr with Power Pistol or N105 out of a 16" carbine is my favorite.

Posted: 7/20/2014 8:02:30 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
The only thing I use for subsonic 147gr rounds is fast burning powder. Otherwise the unburnt powder will get in the can, mix with air, ignite making a louder report. I recommend the OP download the powder burn rate chart and try powders close to burn speed of 231 if he likes the load with his can. I use powders like Power Pistol to achieve max power factor but would never consider them for a suppressed handgun as too much powder leaving the muzzle. As far as the round having some knockdown power that is predetermined since suppressed you are limited to ~1000fps no matter what the bullet weight. If you want to knock something down then supersonic 147gr with Power Pistol or N105 out of a 16" carbine is my favorite.

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Yes you are limited to 1000fps but most powders won't reach that. I just want to keep the velocity over 900fps and stay in a safe pressure range. Doing this while staying quiet is the goal.

Posted: 7/21/2014 2:33:25 AM EDT

[#35]

Clays, you can thank me later.
I've been down that "medium burn rate road" with Universal and other powders under 147's. It's too bad that Clays is unobtainium right now.

Posted: 7/21/2014 2:52:20 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Please tell me the cfe pistol works well as I have four pounds of it(the only pistol powder I could find anywhere).
I have a box of 147 extreme bullets to be loaded.

View Quote

CFE Pistol works great! I'm using it for the 147gr X-Treme RN and HP,

breathed new life into a Ruger P95DC I was thinking of selling because

it didn't perform well. CFE Pistol showed me it was the crappy factory

ammo that performed poorly. Also using CFE Pistol for 45ACP and X-Treme

230 gr HP, incredible results, 5 shots touching at 30' through Ruger

SR1911 with 5" bbl.

Posted: 7/21/2014 10:43:27 AM EDT

[#37]

My most accurate powder for 147gr. bullets is Unique.
For lighter bullets, HS-6.

Posted: 7/22/2014 6:56:14 AM EDT

[#38]

I too use WSF for heavy 9mm. I swear it was made specifically for 147 gr.

Posted: 7/23/2014 6:39:55 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yes you are limited to 1000fps but most powders won't reach that. I just want to keep the velocity over 900fps and stay in a safe pressure range. Doing this while staying quiet is the goal.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The only thing I use for subsonic 147gr rounds is fast burning powder. Otherwise the unburnt powder will get in the can, mix with air, ignite making a louder report. I recommend the OP download the powder burn rate chart and try powders close to burn speed of 231 if he likes the load with his can. I use powders like Power Pistol to achieve max power factor but would never consider them for a suppressed handgun as too much powder leaving the muzzle. As far as the round having some knockdown power that is predetermined since suppressed you are limited to ~1000fps no matter what the bullet weight. If you want to knock something down then supersonic 147gr with Power Pistol or N105 out of a 16" carbine is my favorite.

Yes you are limited to 1000fps but most powders won't reach that. I just want to keep the velocity over 900fps and stay in a safe pressure range. Doing this while staying quiet is the goal.

I don't have a problem reaching 1000fps with my hanguns but there can be quite a bit of difference in barrels. My main sub loads are with vv powder but you said you didn't want to use that. For the 9mm High Power I use 147gr RN with 4gr of N330 seated to 1.145" OAL. 950fps with little deviation and quiet. This can go transonic with a little longer barrel in which case I switch to 3.6gr of N320. That one is easy on ear to shoot in a 16" carbine even without a suppressor. The powder is not that big of a deal but the burn rate is so download a copy off Hodgons site if you haven't already and compare the faster powders mentioned. As you indicated you cannot get much over 1100fps out of a handgun barrel with the 147gr but velocity is not a big of concern as sound signature which means you do not want much unburnt powder leaving the muzzle because as soon as it gets in the can with more volume of air it is going to flash. You can go outside at night and fire your load without can. Look at the muzzle flash and consider that energy contained inside a small metal can and you will see what I am talking about. If you desire power then use medium burn as they develop outstanding velocity with the 147gr (with big fireball out muzzle). If you desire quiet use faster burn (less fireball). Not an expert by far but loading subs for over 30 years and still have all my body parts. Some are not much good but I still have them

Posted: 7/23/2014 8:15:22 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Clays, you can thank me later.
I've been down that "medium burn rate road" with Universal and other powders under 147's. It's too bad that Clays is unobtainium right now.

View Quote

Unless you are talkin lead 147s, forget about straight Clays.

Look, its one of my favorites for .45 ACP and shotgun. And most fast burning powders? (clays is really fast) - I am all for them. Except straight clays. Bad stuff happens quick with Clays in 9mm. Flattened primers, lousy accuracy. I would not use it at all in 9mm frankly.

Posted: 7/23/2014 9:47:11 AM EDT

[#41]

I am going to correct myself here after opening up the Lapua burn rate chart. It is in a different layout and quite frankly they indicate N330 and others as "medium speed". Some of it I don't agree with from personal testing but again depends on the test platform.

Posted: 7/23/2014 4:23:31 PM EDT

[#42]

Seems people like CFE Pistol... but that is in the mid range on Hodgdon's burn rate chart...

I have the same goal as OP.. 147's quiet and accurate.. For me, I will be using a threaded SR9 with Octane 45.

Powders I have on hand: Power Pistol, Bullseye, Unique, CFE Pistol, Blue Dot, W231

I would have thought Bullseye would be good for 147's. Been using it in my 115's. Alliant doesn't list it with 147s..

Posted: 7/23/2014 4:40:24 PM EDT

[#43]

I run 3.8 grains of WW231 and see no reason to change (until I run out anyway)
It runs all my pistols and my 9mm AR15 SBR.
I have shot it side-by-side (mixed magazine) with Special K and three people could not hear the difference.
Plus, 231 also runs my .45's and 38spl.

So, I'm glad you started this thread as I'll need suggestions of what to move to when I'm all out of 231.

Posted: 7/23/2014 5:17:23 PM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:
For 147 gr, I finally settled on WSF. General guidance from all I've read, has been to stay away from faster powders with the 147 gr. 9mm bullets.

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That's exactly the opposite advice that I've found.

Posted: 7/23/2014 5:24:20 PM EDT

[#45]

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Unless you are talkin lead 147s, forget about straight Clays.

Look, its one of my favorites for .45 ACP and shotgun. And most fast burning powders? (clays is really fast) - I am all for them. Except straight clays. Bad stuff happens quick with Clays in 9mm. Flattened primers, lousy accuracy. I would not use it at all in 9mm frankly.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Clays, you can thank me later.
I've been down that "medium burn rate road" with Universal and other powders under 147's. It's too bad that Clays is unobtainium right now.

Unless you are talkin lead 147s, forget about straight Clays.

Look, its one of my favorites for .45 ACP and shotgun. And most fast burning powders? (clays is really fast) - I am all for them. Except straight clays. Bad stuff happens quick with Clays in 9mm. Flattened primers, lousy accuracy. I would not use it at all in 9mm frankly.

Crap, you're right CBR I screwed that up, thanks for pointing that out. I meant to post Solo 1000 as the powder of choice in my current line up. It made a huge difference in the sound level compared to Universal.

Posted: 7/23/2014 9:01:12 PM EDT

[#46]

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That's exactly the opposite advice that I've found.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
For 147 gr, I finally settled on WSF. General guidance from all I've read, has been to stay away from faster powders with the 147 gr. 9mm bullets.

That's exactly the opposite advice that I've found.

No it's correct in general. Heavier bullets generally perform best with slower powders. However, this is a special case, as we are talking specifically about loading for a suppressor equipped gun. In this case, faster and or cooler burning powders will be quieter, at an acceptable loss of velocity.

Posted: 7/23/2014 9:46:06 PM EDT

[#47]

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Quoted:

No it's correct in general. Heavier bullets generally perform best with slower powders. However, this is a special case, as we are talking specifically about loading for a suppressor equipped gun. In this case, faster and or cooler burning powders will be quieter, at an acceptable loss of velocity.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
For 147 gr, I finally settled on WSF. General guidance from all I've read, has been to stay away from faster powders with the 147 gr. 9mm bullets.

That's exactly the opposite advice that I've found.

No it's correct in general. Heavier bullets generally perform best with slower powders. However, this is a special case, as we are talking specifically about loading for a suppressor equipped gun. In this case, faster and or cooler burning powders will be quieter, at an acceptable loss of velocity.

Right... it depends on what you're going for.

I'm either loading to be quiet with a suppressor, or to make, but not be too far over a power factor. That's a good use for faster powder.

If you're chasing velocity, that doesn't apply.