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DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/16/2013 12:07:27 AM
I haven't seen any threads on this, but someone may be interested. Fred Craig only recommended W296/H110, and said that I would not be able to get the velocity of the factory ammo. My initial results with Lil'gun are promising, and I will update with my final results. Any other input would be appreciated.
tReznr
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Posted: 3/16/2013 2:58:40 AM
Where did you get brass/dies?
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cotter6015
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Posted: 3/16/2013 11:02:45 AM
Lee makes the dies as a standard special order, ie you don't need to send brass in, but they are not taking orders til April when I called them a month ago.
dryflash3
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Posted: 3/16/2013 1:21:18 PM
Interesting round that I have only read about.

Would like to know more as you progress with your project.
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DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/16/2013 1:37:44 PM
I purchased the pistol, factory ammo, dies, and loose bullets from the developer, Fred Craig. Bullets are 40gr jacketed soft point, and the factory loaded ammo is about 2150fps across my chrono out of a 5in 1911. With maximum recommended load of H110 I got 1950fps. I compared to data to .22 Hornet, and saw that Lil Gun may be good. My initial loads look promising, and I am checking some more this afternoon. I also want to try Alliant 300MP, but have yet to find any. I was told that the factory powder is a .22 magnum type that is not available to the masses.
JDouglas
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Posted: 3/16/2013 6:56:11 PM
How much H110 are you using to get to 1950 fps? I have been loading 11 gr of H110 with Winchester SPP but I don't have a chrono. I am also loading 35gr VMax with 11.6gr with Remington 6 1/2 primers.
DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/16/2013 10:03:30 PM
10grs of H110 with 40gr bullet got me 1950fps. My test loads today with Hodgen Lil'gun got 2250fps. Still need to load and shot some more, but pressure signs were "ok'. Using small rifle primers, I am wary of just using the primers as indicators. I just ran them over the chronograph, and not checking accuracy. Tomorrow will be a busy day.
tReznr
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Posted: 3/17/2013 3:05:52 PM
Can you make 22 TCM brass out of .223 in the same way that one makes 300 Blackout brass?

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"

-Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC
jaqufrost
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Posted: 3/17/2013 3:08:42 PM
Tagged. I would like to pick one of these up and start reloading for it.
DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/17/2013 4:09:04 PM
10.5gr of 'Lil Gun duplicates factory velocity at 2100-2150fps. I am not getting the accuracy I would like though. So far, it seems I can match factory accuracy and give up 200fps with H110, or match factory velocity and give up 2 1/2" of accuracy at 25yds with 'Lil Gun.

I will keep trying, maybe I'm just not shooting well today.

I would think that the cases could be formed from .223, it just seems like a long way to size down the neck. I guess I will try that too.
imtheflash
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Posted: 3/17/2013 4:42:10 PM
I just heard about this round yesterday watching "Shooting Gallery" on TV. I'm intrigued. To me this is what the 5.7 should have been. Based off the 223 not the 25 acp.
If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the f'ing car!
JDouglas
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Posted: 3/18/2013 9:22:36 PM
Originally Posted By tReznr:
Can you make 22 TCM brass out of .223 in the same way that one makes 300 Blackout brass?


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/tReznr/Arfcom/Whisper-brass.jpg


Yes 22 TCM brass can be made from 223 brass. Here is the website that helped me...
Making 22 TCM brass
1) Cut brass to 1.068
2) Deburr
3) Anneal
4) Size
5) Trim
6) I have to turn the necks on mine because they end up being .018" thick and won't chamber. I turn them down to around 0.014".
DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/18/2013 10:45:18 PM
Bookmarked for when I'm sober, thank you. Don't know why I hadn't found this. I would only question the velocities, I'm getting more across the board, which matches the claimed velocities.
xacex
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Posted: 3/18/2013 11:29:58 PM
Originally Posted By DaddGoneMadd:
Bookmarked for when I'm sober, thank you. Don't know why I hadn't found this. I would only question the velocities, I'm getting more across the board, which matches the claimed velocities.


Lol, yup, did the same thing. I should have jumped on those dies when I saw them available.
JDouglas
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Posted: 3/19/2013 8:43:17 PM
[Last Edit: 3/19/2013 8:44:14 PM by JDouglas]
Originally Posted By DaddGoneMadd:
Bookmarked for when I'm sober, thank you. Don't know why I hadn't found this. I would only question the velocities, I'm getting more across the board, which matches the claimed velocities.


keystoneweapons is getting slower velocities than other 22 TCM pistol because his is custom built by Fred Craig with a 4 1/4 inch barrel. RIA 22 TCM has a 5" barrel.
John87
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Posted: 3/19/2013 8:47:26 PM
I am curious of this round and its capabilities.
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DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 3/19/2013 10:53:46 PM
Originally Posted By JDouglas:
Originally Posted By DaddGoneMadd:
Bookmarked for when I'm sober, thank you. Don't know why I hadn't found this. I would only question the velocities, I'm getting more across the board, which matches the claimed velocities.


keystoneweapons is getting slower velocities than other 22 TCM pistol because his is custom built by Fred Craig with a 4 1/4 inch barrel. RIA 22 TCM has a 5" barrel.


And I'm STILL learning. Thank you.
ronaldmwilliams
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Posted: 4/15/2013 4:41:40 PM
I plan to chamber an AR15 brl in this. Looking at a 7.5" brl but I am setting it up to load all the bulllets up to the 90g HPBT. I also want to see how it does as a subsonic round. Thinking a HI/LOW gas block to run everything. The factory brass is calling for 38,000psi max. My understanding is they are using shortened 223/5.56 brass. Anyone know if this brass can handle 45-50,000psi?
Thanks, Ron
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STJ
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Posted: 4/16/2013 6:14:37 PM
I don't have any experience with the 22CTM, but rounds that use Lil' Gun and H110 well also like 2400. Just a thought.
frozenny
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Posted: 4/16/2013 7:32:45 PM
Go careful with the lil'gun. It was my go to powder for 357 carbine loads, and I was getting really impressive velocities with safe pressures. However, I noticed something: Barrel heat was extreme. A little research turned up some negative information. Lil'gun has been implicated in some rather serious forcing cone erosion and cracking in some guns (primarily revolvers). Freedom Arms (which I regard as a decent quality maker) has tested it in a m83 357. Their tests reveal extreme heat and wear in very short periods of time with Lil-gun. I am not talking about thousands or even hundreds of rounds. If memory serves correctly, their tests were with something like 50 rounds (fifty).

So, while Lilgun may generate some great velocities, I wouldn't want to run a lot of speed drills with TCM loaded with LilGun. You might see some dramatically increased barrel wear.
DaddGoneMadd
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Posted: 5/4/2013 7:27:46 PM
Finally found some Alliant 300-MP to try. Working up cautiously, I was able to match factory loads (2150fps) with safe pressure signs, and better them (2300fps) with pressure issues. Both showed very good accuracy. Point of impact changed to the right and high. I will keep working and update.

Summary-

H110 matches factory accuracy, but 250-300fps slower.

Lil' gun matches factory velocity, but unacceptable accuracy.

300-MP in brief testing matches velocity and accuracy.

It's a fun gun and makes loud noises.
dryflash3
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Posted: 5/4/2013 11:42:56 PM
Thanks for the update, an interesting caliber.
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imtheflash
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Posted: 5/6/2013 5:59:18 AM

Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Thanks for the update, an interesting caliber.

The more I see this thread topped, the more I want one of these guns.


If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the f'ing car!
Kaliburz
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Posted: 6/4/2013 1:26:22 PM
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d13s3l
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Posted: 6/4/2013 1:34:27 PM
Originally Posted By tReznr:
Where did you get brass/dies?


brass from http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com

or make out of 223 brass
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imtheflash
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Posted: 6/4/2013 3:58:12 PM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2013 8:53:57 PM by imtheflash]
Do they make 10 rd magazines?


ETA I got a quick response from Armscore, no they don't.

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If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the f'ing car!
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