Anyone know the difference between a Remington small rifle  6 1/2 and 7 1/2?  I am sitting on a couple  of thousand 6 1/2 and want to load some 223 with it.  I think I bought these during the primer crunch in 09.

IIRC the 7½ is the one that I'd suggest for .223

6½ isn't made for the pressures

Don't you wish they'd put the PSI rating on the box?

As an aside, I did load plenty with the 6½ before realizing my mistake and they weren't a problem.  If I used them, I'd stay with mid pressure plinking rounds.  Certainly nothing approaching NATO pressures.

I now use a CCI #41, NATO primer

You can dig-around on Remington's website and find their explanation. In a nutshell they are saying the 6-1/2 primers were developed for lower pressure loads like the 30-carbine.

Thanks for the info but how do the pressures effect the spent primer or is the primer not hot enough?

The 6 1/2 has a much thinner cup and cannot handle the pressure of the 223 or other high pressure rounds.  The warning is written on the newer boxes.  Rem web site has it as well.



Link
http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/167/kw/primers/session/L3RpbWUvMTMzMDE4MDM5Ni9zaWQvdUQ3Y09BUms%3D

Use of 6 1/2 primers in .223/5.56 loads can result in pierced primers/gas leakage with the resulting gas leakage eating pits in the face of your bolt.  Enough pits in the face of the bolt and the bolt can be ruined.  Believe me, it's happened to me.  I've had no problems using 6 1/2 primers in lower pressure rounds like 30 Carbine.  I don't know about the priming compound, but the primers themselves can't handle as much pressure as 7 1/2 primers.  Maybe you'll be lucky and maybe you won't.  The guy that sold me the 6 1/2's (during the primer shortage) said they weren't good for .223/5.56, AND I DIDN'T BELIEVE HIM, figuring he had simply used too much powder in his reloads.  Some of the 6 1/2 boxes are even marked in small letters to not use them in high pressure cartridges like .223.

If you load 6 1/2s in 223 you'll pierce the primers.  That's very bad for your firing pin and bolt face.  I accidentally picked up some 6



1/2s one time and had to try them out to see what would happen.  DON'T USE THEM FOR 223!  I ended up using them to load up



some 38 Specials, as I don't load for any other rifle cartridge that uses small primers.  


 

Thanks, that was what I was looking for.  I needed to know why.

I tried to tell you not to use them for 223/5.56 loads.  

Anyhow, you got them for cheap and can use them in 30 Carbine (like you said you would) or maybe in pistol ammo.

Come to think of it I kind of wish I had kept them and used them for 9mm and 40S&W reloads.

On a side note what is the status of the ERML range nowdays?

The 6 1/2 cup is thiner by .005"  in the article >  http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

I loaded up about 700 223's with Rem 6 1/2 primers.

I plan to shoot them, AND buy a new bolt and firing pin when I use them up.

About 6 out of 10 show signs of piercing.

These were loaded in 1998-99 way before Remington's advisory.

A "friend" GAVE them to me.

Prob knew, but didn't say anything.

Some people...    

 What type of rifle are you going to fire these out of?  Remember, the AR has a free floating firing pin and very thin cupped primers can lead to more issues than just a pierced primer.

I am confident you could use 6 1/2 primers in .223 provided you load light bullets, 55 grains and lighter and use the starting charges listed in the manuals. They will function in a bolt action, probably not in a semi-auto. There is no way they can withstand a normal .223 powder charge. YMMV.

I have ample evidence they can, do and have.  I ran some lighter loads, but certainly in the .223 range of acceptable.

I'm not suggesting anyone do it, just saying I did with no ill effects.

I'm lucky like that

Will be used in an AR-15.

Like I said, I plan to shoot them and then replace the bolt and firing pin.

I WILL be checking for damage/wear every 50 rounds, so I can see what's happening to the
bolt face and firing pin as I go.

It's either that or pull them all, save the powder, decap the case, re-prime with a 7 1/2 and then load them all
over again.

Hate to have to do that.

the hours spent doing that justify just shooting & replacing the bolt and firing pin....

 You should not have any damage to the pin or bolt face it the primers do not pierce.

Correct.

I'm thinking that at a rate of 10% pierced, I will be keeping a good eye on things
and stop if the erosion starts to look too dangerous.

ERML...The county gave the land to the club.  I am now at the Pncla Rifle and Pistol Club and like it better.  I did find uses for all those primers and try to educate others on them.  I was able to use all the primers.

The reloaders rule is you have to buy a rifle you can use them in .   A 22 hornet would be something you could use the 61/2's in.  I use them in my .17 AH with no issues.

I am glad things worked out, both for you and the club.

When I tried loading AR-chow with the 6 1/2s I didn't have any primers pierced by the firing pin.

I did have primers that burned through at the edge of the cup.  Think pinholes in the primer.

I don't remember how often this occured, but it was enough to case the ring around the boltface.

Anyone else agree with this statement?  I reload both of those calibers. I'm sitting on a couple thousand 6 1/2s, it would be nice to be able to use them up.

My 9MM CZ75 wouldn't reliably fire the 6-1/2 primers. In 38 Special they all go bang so that's where they will be used until gone.

Mmmm I have a CZP01 in 9mm and it eats everything.  It is my favorite pistol.  Maybe I will load a few rounds and see how if it goes bang.  I also load 40sw maybe try them out.

I've had a full carton of 6 1/2s for years and one day when I run out of small pistol primers, or just want to do some cheap-o plinking rounds, I'll bust them out.  I'm sure that one of my pistols will set them off.

Chris

Just got home from the range with my first sampling of Remington 6 1/2 primer based 5.56 handloads.  I was hoping to find a nice plinking load for a 20" A2 and feel pretty confident with the results.

Loaded up 50 rounds using new Winchester brass, 62 grain OTMs (Sierra Blems from Midway) and 21.8 grains of IMR 3031 with a COAL of 2.260.  (25) of these loads were given a slight crimp with a Lee factory crimp die.  

Quickloads suggests this load has a max pressure of 39897 PSI and a MV from a 20" barrel of 2779 FPS.  The filling ratio is 99.2% and 96.6% of the powder is consumed.  This is the part I liked as it is a very efficient load.

(5) rounds each (crimped and non-crimped) were fired from the following rifles:
20" Bushmaster, 1/9 twist w/ 5.56 Nato chamber and rifle length gas system
16" GTS Recon, 1/7 twist w/ Wylde chamber and midlength gas system
14.5" GG&G M4, 1/7 twist w/ 5.56 Nato chamber and carbine length gas system
(10) rounds each were shot from a 20" Armalite, 1/9 w/ 5.56 Nato chamber and rifle length gas system (this is the intended rifle for these loads).

This load was a dream to shoot.  It not only cycled every single AR15 without a hiccup, it produced surprisingly good accuracy.  No pressure signs what so ever and no pierce primers.  Although, I will admit there is one casing that looks a little suspect around the primer pocket.  I do believe however, this is a result of a brass issue as there one was piece that was difficult to prime.  I will post photos of the brass and test target (from the 20" A2) later this evening.

Damn flyer!  The groups to the left and right are (5) shots and (4) in the X.  Damn Flyer!  This was @ 50 yards.

Non crimped.

Crimped.

Sampling of both.  Crimped on the right.

The suspect!


My next step is to use this same load in some LC brass and see what happens.