Reloading Wolf/Tula steel cases..................A work in progress(pic heavy) - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Reloading Wolf/Tula steel cases..................A work in progress(pic heavy)

Posted: 1/29/2012 10:59:12 AM EDT

I've been reloading .223 for awhile and came across the thread about reloading steel cases. For months I've been researching every thread on the internet I could find on the subject. What I found is about 50-60 percent of people are against it due to what they heard or what they think will happen without personal experience.

I decided to give it a try and carefully went step by step from preping the cases to sizing and trimming. I did this and took notes on what happened, what worked, what didn't etc before I actually load up some rounds.

This thread will be about my work in progress on reloading steel cases from wolf and Tula. Alot of threads, if not most only have people talking about what happens or why they shouldn't, etc. I think it's time in this thread to start posting pics and numbers.

RELOAD AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Let start with a pic.
Left to right: Factory WOLF .223 55g FMJ, 1x fired range pickup, prep'd 1X fired case(deprimed, tumbled 1 hour, resized, lelubed in tumbler 30 min), reload(Hornandy 55gr FMJ, TAC, WIn SRP), 2x fired pickup, 2x fired prep'd

Here are some cases that have splits or excessive rust. The thread in this reloading forum said he didn't want to tumble for more than an hour due to the cases possibly tapping each other and wearing the the polymer coating. Today I am going to tumble these case for about 7+ hours and see what happens.

Sorry for ythe XL pics, will fix tonight.

Diclaimer: this is a work in progress, I don't know everything, this is an experiment to shed some light on myths and such.

Posted: 1/29/2012 11:11:57 AM EDT

[#1]

Looks interesting.

What do you use to prevent the cases from rusting?

Or is that not an issue? Is there enough laquer left to prevent it?

Posted: 1/29/2012 11:13:19 AM EDT

[#2]

Im in

Posted: 1/29/2012 11:16:38 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Looks interesting.

What do you use to prevent the cases from rusting?

Or is that not an issue? Is there enough laquer left to prevent it?

These cases are scrap so I wasn't going to reload this, Just seeing how much tumbling wears the polymer coating. I keep ones that have a slight rust inside the neck. Tumbling, neck brush seems to work, but not totally eliminate it. taking and keeping them out out of the elements and dry seems to stop the rust from spreading.

Posted: 1/29/2012 11:25:50 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Looks interesting.

What do you use to prevent the cases from rusting?

Or is that not an issue? Is there enough laquer left to prevent it?

These cases are scrap so I wasn't going to reload this, Just seeing how much tumbling wears the polymer coating. I keep ones that have a slight rust inside the neck. Tumbling, neck brush seems to work, but not totally eliminate it. taking and keeping them out out of the elements and dry seems to stop the rust from spreading.

Ok, I've just seen wolf rust overnight if left on the range and didn't know if it was a problem with reloaded cases.

Posted: 1/29/2012 12:45:22 PM EDT

[#5]

I am interested to see how this turns out. I have saved most of my wolf cases over the last few years just in case I ever got time to try this for myself. I have probably at least two 5 gallon buckets full just waiting to be used or scrapped.

Posted: 1/29/2012 12:52:40 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Looks interesting.

What do you use to prevent the cases from rusting?

Or is that not an issue? Is there enough laquer left to prevent it?

I stole this from Wikipedia so who knows if it's 100% accurate, but I've noticed some of my range pickups don't seem to have any coating on them at all which would be consistent with the data. When I 'polish' steel cases I add a bit extra polish which gives them a light coat to prevent rust then I store them inside the house, it's worked so far.

"Wolf no longer manufactures ammunition with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing due to issues concerning lacquer-coated steel cartridges becoming stuck in the chamber of a firearm after firing, with difficulty in ejecting the spent cartridge afterwards. This appears to be more of a problem with cartridges with narrowly tapering walls (e.g. .223 Remington) than those with rather steep case walls such as 7.62x39 mm cartridges or pistol ammunition. This also does not seem to pose much of a problem for Soviet or East Bloc designed weapons that tend to have looser chamber clearances than Western designed weapons."

Posted: 1/29/2012 5:56:37 PM EDT

[#7]

Well, I only tumbled for 6 hours.

Seem a tad lighter in color, but not much. Really smooth feel.
Obviously didn't take much rust off.

45 auto and left are the 6 hour tumble compared to four 1 hour tumble to the right
Not too much difference.

The really rusty one on top of the tumbler before

Here's some numbers.
These next pics are cartridge length on three 1X fired cases, before and after sizing. To show how much they stretch.

Before

After

Inside neck after sizing. Most if not all cases after firing will allow a bullet to drop through, indicating zero neck tension. Most after sizing will avaerage .221 to .222. I will get some at .217 and in between.

Posted: 1/29/2012 6:19:02 PM EDT

[#8]

They don't seem to stretch much, I'd be interested in seeing how much longer they get after repeated firings.

Posted: 1/29/2012 6:29:45 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
They don't seem to stretch much, I'd be interested in seeing how much longer they get after repeated firings.

Theres alot of 1x fired cases that measure 1.59, 1.60, 1.61 etc after sizing. I think 1.62 is the longest I measured.

Posted: 1/29/2012 6:37:55 PM EDT

[#10]

Primers

Most will prime nice and snug. A few easier and a few harder.
This one (right)was the hardest one to prime. I was expecting it to go off. You can see it fills in the pocket. A closer look revealed that the side of the primer must have caught something and shaved.
next to a regular primed case.

You can maybe see the shaved side of the prime under the REM word.

Posted: 1/29/2012 6:48:41 PM EDT

[#11]

I have been reloading steel cases now for a couple of years. Berdan primed 7.62x39 here. Home cast bullets in the last pic.

45 ACP with home cast bullets.

Can't find my 223 steel cases loads pic.

removed

eta, found it. Loaded with 55 gr Hornady soft points.

No difference loading steel case from brass.

I use the same dies, lube, and other reloading tools.

Steel cases will not wear out your dies.

Good thread Wormfood.

Posted: 1/29/2012 7:33:01 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They don't seem to stretch much, I'd be interested in seeing how much longer they get after repeated firings.

Theres alot of 1x fired cases that measure 1.59, 1.60, 1.61 etc after sizing. I think 1.62 is the longest I measured.

I did a pressure load test with 11 rounds. 23g to 26g in .3g of TAC
No signs of pressure.

I took four of these, measured, resized, and measured again
these are 2x fired.

After sizing

What I've notice, and I have not recorded anything yet or done a thorough test, but is seems that these cases are slightly shrinking after being fired.

I have a small tub with unprep'd 2x fired cases and I am getting some measurments under 1.750. So I'm not sure what to think yet.

After I finish loading the rest, I'm doing a ladder test this weekend.

Posted: 1/29/2012 7:37:48 PM EDT

[#13]

Cases will shrink slightly when fired because they swelled to fit the chamber.

Size them and measure again.

Posted: 1/30/2012 3:59:56 AM EDT

[#14]

I reload 223 steel wolf, what i have noticed is the neck will split, some after one reload so keep your eyes open, i dont do anything different, same loads as brass, case lube will keep the case from rusting if you leave a little bit on, i dont even think about loading rust covered cases, and no other problem's with steel, case neck tenson is good, primers seat tight, but case life is short, i reload em once and leave em lay, ymmv.

Posted: 1/30/2012 4:59:24 AM EDT

[#15]

Can you wet tumble with SS media the steel cases? Would this cause rust?

Posted: 1/30/2012 5:09:22 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I reload 223 steel wolf, what i have noticed is the neck will split, some after one reload so keep your eyes open, i dont do anything different, same loads as brass, case lube will keep the case from rusting if you leave a little bit on, i dont even think about loading rust covered cases, and no other problem's with steel, case neck tenson is good, primers seat tight, but case life is short, i reload em once and leave em lay, ymmv.

Out of about 250 cases I have picked up, only 5-10 have had splits.
I've only had one split when I resized it.

Posted: 1/30/2012 5:16:09 AM EDT

[#17]

I guess the one reason I started reloading Wolf/Tula is because when I got into reloading, I became a brass rat.
However I found out I'm not the only one in my area. So brass is getting hard to come by, as far as free range pick ups. So I either have to show up at the range at the right time or more often.

With the steel cases, I seem to be the only one that picks them up. Because of this, I am more than doubling my round count.

Posted: 1/30/2012 5:29:38 AM EDT

[#18]

It could different quailty cases, some good some not so good, if i fire thirty rounds maybe 4 or 5 will split on firing, but i dont mind, the ones splitting were black box from the old factory, have not tried the new factory wolf yet.

Quoted:

Quoted:
I reload 223 steel wolf, what i have noticed is the neck will split, some after one reload so keep your eyes open, i dont do anything different, same loads as brass, case lube will keep the case from rusting if you leave a little bit on, i dont even think about loading rust covered cases, and no other problem's with steel, case neck tenson is good, primers seat tight, but case life is short, i reload em once and leave em lay, ymmv.

Out of about 250 cases I have picked up, only 5-10 have had splits.
I've only had one split when I resized it.

Posted: 1/30/2012 6:20:23 AM EDT

[#19]

Trimming

I could not find a case that was over 1.760. So I got one that was about 1.7585. I remembered after this that I had set aside the ones that were 1.760+.

Before trimming

After. measured 1.753.

I then took a brass case and trimmed with the same trimmers.

When I started trimming brass, I did not remember if the cutting looked that exaggerated. My thought was the steel was wearing down a groove in the cutter. So I took a spare unused cutter and trimmed a brass case to compare.

It seems to look similar.
This was just an experiment to see how the steel cases would trim. Unless time are really tough, one would just scrap one that are too long.

Posted: 1/30/2012 7:57:30 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Can you wet tumble with SS media the steel cases? Would this cause rust?

NO. The main enemy to steel cases is rust. Wet tumbling would remove the coating on the cases.

I dry tumble my steel cases. Walnut for 2 hours to clean. Size and tumble lube off with plain corn cob.

Glad I kept a couple of my vibrating tumblers after I switched to wet tumbling.

I have some rusty steel 7.62x39 cases tumbling in walnut right now. Will check on them tonight.

Posted: 1/30/2012 8:24:22 AM EDT

[#21]

Nice. It sounds like more folks are reloading boxer primed Wolf, Tula, and Golden Tiger .223/5.56 empties. Been reloading them for a few years myself. I did feel they were harder to trim than brass, so I toss when they need trimming, but then they don't stretch like brass. I do break the inside the neck edge for the 1st reload so they don't scrape the bullets when being seated. I do not reload any with rust evidence. I use the same powder charges as for brass, even though the powder seems to take up more space in the case, with no problems. Reload a steel case multiple times and it starts to get shiney with bare metal showing (I keep reloading until the neck splits).

One thing I've experienced that others haven't posted: I have one barrel that FACTORY steel cases can get stuck in the chamber upon firing. My reloaded steel cases don't stick in that chamber upon firing. I've always figured that the act of tumbling and resizing made the cases slicker (but maybe it's just my powder charge of 26.5gr WW748 with 55gr bullets).

Enjoy those steel cases; probably 99.9% of shooters just let them lay where they fell.

Posted: 1/30/2012 10:10:43 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Nice. It sounds like more folks are reloading boxer primed Wolf, Tula, and Golden Tiger .223/5.56 empties. Been reloading them for a few years myself. I did feel they were harder to trim than brass, so I toss when they need trimming, but then they don't stretch like brass. I do break the inside the neck edge for the 1st reload so they don't scrape the bullets when being seated. I do not reload any with rust evidence. I use the same powder charges as for brass, even though the powder seems to take up more space in the case, with no problems. Reload a steel case multiple times and it starts to get shiney with bare metal showing (I keep reloading until the neck splits).

One thing I've experienced that others haven't posted: I have one barrel that FACTORY steel cases can get stuck in the chamber upon firing. My reloaded steel cases don't stick in that chamber upon firing. I've always figured that the act of tumbling and resizing made the cases slicker (but maybe it's just my powder charge of 26.5gr WW748 with 55gr bullets).

Enjoy those steel cases; probably 99.9% of shooters just let them lay where they fell.

Exactly. I still get people that give me the

when I tell them I reload steel cases. I will reload cases with alittle bit of rust in the case neck. unless it's really pitted like the one in the tumbler. My thought is if you plan on shooting it soon, no worries. If you plan on storing it, might be a problem.

Posted: 1/30/2012 11:41:49 AM EDT

[#23]

another benefit is you can pick them up with a magnet

Posted: 1/30/2012 4:56:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Are any of the steel 7.62x39 rounds Boxer primed?

Posted: 1/30/2012 6:31:29 PM EDT

[#25]

No, that's why I use Berdan primers in them.

Posted: 1/30/2012 6:40:20 PM EDT

[#26]

Bummer. Thanks for the answer, though.

Posted: 2/2/2012 6:52:49 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
No, that's why I use Berdan primers in them.

Berdan primers were once non-existant to reloaders in the U.S. Thankfully Tula has been selling them to U.S. importers. Hope that continues.

Posted: 2/2/2012 7:21:27 AM EDT

[#28]

When you go to resize the case on a wolf 223, what is the springback of the neck compared to brass?

Brett

Posted: 2/2/2012 8:52:38 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
When you go to resize the case on a wolf 223, what is the springback of the neck compared to brass?

Brett

Let me check

First pic is a FC, LC 00, and Wolf case. Wolf is a 2x fired, others are 1x fired pickups.
All three have no neck tension when I place bullets in them.

Measurement in order of FC, LC and Wolf before resizing,

Quick clean for resizing and same order

What I found so far is the steel cases after sizing will hold better neck tension than brass. I always get a few brass reloads that I can push in the bullets in, but never on steel cases yet.
Hope this answers your question.

Posted: 2/2/2012 4:03:48 PM EDT

[#30]

How do you deprime berdan cases?

Posted: 2/2/2012 6:22:04 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

How do you deprime berdan cases?

Posted: 2/2/2012 7:39:03 PM EDT

[#32]

People call me crazy when I tell them I reload boxer primed steel cases (some Wolf, mostly Herters).

I've loaded some 6 or 7 times now. Yes, the polymer does start to wear off, so the case gets smooth and shiny.

I don't think I've had to trim a single steel case. Which is awesome. I haven't split any cases either (but I load pretty light).

Posted: 2/3/2012 6:31:40 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
How do you deprime berdan cases?

There is also the simple hydraulic method - an Australian guy demonstrates it on YouTube, but I don't have the link so you have to search.

Posted: 2/4/2012 5:08:31 AM EDT

[#34]

I have loaded steel Tula and Wolf.

I have not found a split case yet but usually toss after one or two reloads just to be safe. I also load them pretty light and use them for basic blasting.