User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 4:31:30 PM EDT
I've been wanting a PS90 for some time now, I have some money burning a hole in my pocket and plan to get a couple guns. I had a 5.7 pistol a few years back and regret selling it and I like the 5.7x28 round so I figured a PS90 SBR'd would be pretty sweet. There's only one place around me that rents this gun and I don't know anybody else that has one so this was my only option to shoot before I buy.
The gun was in terrible condition! The gun was so dirty that when you cycled the action (manually, unloaded) the charging handle would go forward and then the bolt carrier would cycle slowly and very delayed, I was almost afraid to shoot it. So I load up and fired 5 rounds, you could easily pick up on the delayed bcg moving, pulled the target in and at 20 yards, the rounds barely hit the paper! Then I noticed the top rail was loose and the red dot was flopping around, the rail was missing the rear most screw and was only attached at the front. Very frustrating. I know this was because the gun was poorly maintained but damn, I just couldn't get comfortable shooting.......I was amazed at how little recoil there was. Having said all that, I may still get one, they hold their value very well and the odds of me losing money if I don't like it is low. Damn. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 4:44:24 PM EDT
[#1]
You described my experience with one at a rental range in DFW a few years ago to a T. Dirty, missing one screw so the sight was loose. I was impressed at the low recoil and handling though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 5:06:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You described my experience with one at a rental range in DFW a few years ago to a T. Dirty, missing one screw so the sight was loose. I was impressed at the low recoil and handling though. Did you end up buying one? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 5:17:29 PM EDT
[#3]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 5:17:49 PM EDT
[#4]
It's a super fun gun, I love my SBR PS90. It's not necessarily very practical at any real world uses, but it's beyond cool and fun. Maybe one day I'll take it coyote hunting or something. It feels like you're shooting a .22, 19" OAL, 50rd magazine, ambi controls, plus when loaded with 198 it's actually a pretty mean little package.
I wouldn't let a bad range experience taint what it can be. It being in poor condition is just an indicator that it must get rented a lot due to how neat it is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 5:21:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote History |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 6:02:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a super fun gun, I love my SBR PS90. It's not necessarily very practical at any real world uses, but it's beyond cool and fun. Maybe one day I'll take it coyote hunting or something. It feels like you're shooting a .22, 19" OAL, 50rd magazine, ambi controls, plus when loaded with 198 it's actually a pretty mean little package. I wouldn't let a bad range experience taint what it can be. It being in poor condition is just an indicator that it must get rented a lot due to how neat it is. It really was very cool given it's size and weight. You think it loaded with 198 would be a good PDW? I know the round has it's haters and followers and I love the round but some times have my doubts. I'm a huge fan of PCCs and place the PS90 in that category and thinking the 198 out of a 10.5" barrel would be a better bet than a 9mm out of a 6" or 9" barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 6:43:25 PM EDT
[#7]
I used to work at a range and the PS90 we had was in shit condition when I started. I cleaned it every chance I could but it was rented ALOT.
That being said I picked one up a year ago and love it, out of the box it is good to go and FN had a deal on free mags. It is rare to hear about them failing out of the box, or even used. I guess it is like renting a sports car that has been ragged on, vs purchasing one brand new. My Mrs. is now calling it her gun, naturally the one that is expensive to feed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 7:41:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It really was very cool given it's size and weight. You think it loaded with 198 would be a good PDW? I know the round has it's haters and followers and I love the round but some times have my doubts. I'm a huge fan of PCCs and place the PS90 in that category and thinking the 198 out of a 10.5" barrel would be a better bet than a 9mm out of a 6" or 9" barrel. I think with 198's, or from a longer barrel even 197's, it can be a damaging little bullet. A lot attack the 5.7 as being less lethal than a rifle caliber, which it is. To think of it as a 1:1 replacement for a rifle will lead to disappointment. If you think of it as a pistol alternative that carries more ammo, is easier to aim, provides quicker follow up shots, and does potentially more damage, you're on the right track. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2017 11:02:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It really was very cool given it's size and weight. You think it loaded with 198 would be a good PDW? I know the round has it's haters and followers and I love the round but some times have my doubts. I'm a huge fan of PCCs and place the PS90 in that category and thinking the 198 out of a 10.5" barrel would be a better bet than a 9mm out of a 6" or 9" barrel. No. There is much real world data demonstrating the poor wound ballistics of the 5.7x28 on two legged adversaries. I like my ps90 SBRs. They are neat. But ballisticslly effective PDWs they are not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 12:16:29 AM EDT
[#10]
And there is a tremendous amount of data on the ineffectiveness of other pistol cartridges including the .45 acp.
Most of it second hand, third hand, twenty fifth hand.... This is documented... From Skokie, IL 8/28/2008 Sgt. Timothy Gramins now carries 145 rounds of ammunition, every day, without fail. Why? Because he was involved in a shootout where the bad guy just Would Not Stop, even though he was hit 17 times(!) with .45 ACP bullets(!) From a full-sized Glock 21! In general it would be hard to carry much more gun than a Glock 21. Now, part of the internet gun banter is that “.45 ACP won’t just kill a man, it’ll also kill his soul”… or, another is to say “.45: because why shoot twice?” But in Sgt. Gramins’ case, he had to fire magazine after magazine at this attacker, and he scored 17 hits, and at least six of those hits would have been fatal: the attacker was hit in the heart, both lungs, the liver, the diaphragm, and a kidney. You cannot fault Sgt. Gramins’ shot placement! And you can’t fault his choice of weapon or caliber; .45 ACP is about as good as it gets in handguns. But the simple fact of the matter is, the perpetrator simply Would Not Stop. All in all, Sgt. Gramins fired 33 rounds, hitting 17 times. The attacker fired a total of 21 rounds from two different handguns. Gramins finally took the attacker down with three shots to the head – but even then, the attacker was still alive when taken to the emergency room. He would (probably) have died from any of those six shots before the head shots, but the big question is: when? Certainly not immediately, and those shots didn’t take him out of the fight – he continued to fire at Sgt. Gramins, and could have potentially killed the officer, even though he would (likely) have eventually died from his injuries. Again, it’s not about killing, it’s about STOPPING, and in this case the perpetrator simply would not stop, even though he’d been hit with lots of big .45 ACP bullets. Even the vaunted .45 acp couldn't end the gunfight. Article in Police Magazine on gunfight |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there is a tremendous amount of data on the ineffectiveness of other pistol cartridges including the .45 acp. Most of it second hand, third hand, twenty fifth hand.... This is documented... From Skokie, IL 8/28/2008 Sgt. Timothy Gramins now carries 145 rounds of ammunition, every day, without fail. Why? Because he was involved in a shootout where the bad guy just Would Not Stop, even though he was hit 17 times(!) with .45 ACP bullets(!) From a full-sized Glock 21! In general it would be hard to carry much more gun than a Glock 21. Now, part of the internet gun banter is that “.45 ACP won’t just kill a man, it’ll also kill his soul”… or, another is to say “.45: because why shoot twice?” But in Sgt. Gramins’ case, he had to fire magazine after magazine at this attacker, and he scored 17 hits, and at least six of those hits would have been fatal: the attacker was hit in the heart, both lungs, the liver, the diaphragm, and a kidney. You cannot fault Sgt. Gramins’ shot placement! And you can’t fault his choice of weapon or caliber; .45 ACP is about as good as it gets in handguns. But the simple fact of the matter is, the perpetrator simply Would Not Stop. All in all, Sgt. Gramins fired 33 rounds, hitting 17 times. The attacker fired a total of 21 rounds from two different handguns. Gramins finally took the attacker down with three shots to the head – but even then, the attacker was still alive when taken to the emergency room. He would (probably) have died from any of those six shots before the head shots, but the big question is: when? Certainly not immediately, and those shots didn’t take him out of the fight – he continued to fire at Sgt. Gramins, and could have potentially killed the officer, even though he would (likely) have eventually died from his injuries. Again, it’s not about killing, it’s about STOPPING, and in this case the perpetrator simply would not stop, even though he’d been hit with lots of big .45 ACP bullets. Even the vaunted .45 acp couldn't end the gunfight. Article in Police Magazine on gunfight He needs a centerfire rifle, not more 45. Remember Einstein's definition of insanity. Modern full power pistol calibers, ie 9x19, 38spl, 357 SIG, 40cal, 45acp, are all adequate and really not much different from one another when it comes to wound ballistics. FBI wound ballistics data supports this. The idea that 45acp is a ballisticslly superior to other full power handgun calibers is an old wives tale that has been disproven by the FBI data. The FBI has gone back to 9x19; that is a clue. If your handgun caliber is inadequate, you should be moving up to a centerfire rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:26:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. There is much real world data demonstrating the poor wound ballistics of the 5.7x28 on two legged adversaries. I like my ps90 SBRs. They are neat. But ballisticslly effective PDWs they are not. While incredible tragic, the Ft. Hood shooting pretty much debunks your statement. The 5.7x28 has been proven to be completely capable of stopping two legged targets in numerous reports and if that isn't enough the tellings in various internet hunting forums where people are taking deer, hogs and coyotes ought to do it. Glad you enjoys your PS90, I like both of mine and my FiveSeveN too, but you need to do some more research on the cartridge and the shootings its been involved in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:41:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Sorry to hear about your experience, but it WAS a gun range rental gun. I have owned two PS90s for nearly a decade that have run without a single issue. They are by far the favorite among people who shoot my guns when I go to the range!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:53:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While incredible tragic, the Ft. Hood shooting pretty much debunks your statement. The 5.7x28 has been proven to be completely capable of stopping two legged targets in numerous reports and if that isn't enough the tellings in various internet hunting forums where people are taking deer, hogs and coyotes ought to do it. Glad you enjoys your PS90, I like both of mine and my FiveSeveN too, but you need to do some more research on the cartridge and the shootings its been involved in. We've been through this before: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_24/449960_.html&page=1 Read the links I provided in that thread. LE agencies that adopted 5.7x28 have dropped it due to terrible terminal performance. Read through the thread I linked at Lightfighter. Multiple SMEs chime in on 5.7x28. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 2:56:27 PM EDT
[#15]
And we're off! Those of you debating it's 'stopping power' are missing the point of the cartridge and rifle. It's not supposed to compete with the lethality of service rifle calibers. It's supposed to be better than a pistol in only a marginally larger package.
You don't get it because it's great at killing things, you get it because it's such a small handy PDW that *can* kill things. Micro .380s are the handgun you carry when you don't want to carry a handgun. The P90/PS90 is the rifle you carry when you don't want to carry a rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 3:33:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Judging a caliber based on the policies of a Law Enforcement agency is not a good comparison.
When New York City finally adopted a semi auto (Glock 19) the ONLY allowed ammo was FMJ, yep, full metal jacket. They have finally wised up and issue JHP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 9:50:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Judging a caliber based on the policies of a Law Enforcement agency is not a good comparison. When New York City finally adopted a semi auto (Glock 19) the ONLY allowed ammo was FMJ, yep, full metal jacket. They have finally wised up and issue JHP. Read the LF link I posted the last time we had this conversation. http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/anyone-ever-shoot-the-fn-5-7-pistol-any-opinions?page=1 Policy is not mentioned; poor terminal performance is mentioned. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:54:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Frankly anyone who follows Fackler thinks a bowling ball going 3 fps is the ultimate weapon.
If it's so damn bad why does the U.S Secret Service carry it? I heard a Army Sniper answer a question as to what caliber does he prefer for stopping power....his response A 155 HE round! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 11:32:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Frankly anyone who follows Fackler thinks a bowling ball going 3 fps is the ultimate weapon. If it's so damn bad why does the U.S Secret Service carry it? I heard a Army Sniper answer a question as to what caliber does he prefer for stopping power....his response A 155 HE round! I always assumed SS used them due to how much firepower they cram into such a small package, like how they used the uzi prior. I'd also assume it pulling double duty as being AP capable as well would be nifty as well. But this is just my assumption. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 1:28:41 PM EDT
[#20]
So, to be sure, your disappointment is not in the PS90 platform itself, but in the particular specimen that you handled at the range? Your experience with the poorly maintained rifle from a rental range should not sour you on the firearm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 1:53:29 PM EDT
[#21]
my sot buddy has a p90 with a short barrel. its a blast to shoot f/a with a can
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 3:57:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, to be sure, your disappointment is not in the PS90 platform itself, but in the particular specimen that you handled at the range? Your experience with the poorly maintained rifle from a rental range should not sour you on the firearm. Right, I thought the gun was cool but the issues were very distracting. I'd like to shoot another before I buy one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 3:57:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my sot buddy has a p90 with a short barrel. its a blast to shoot f/a with a can Damn I wish we could own P90s. That would be so freaking cool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 8:36:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Frankly anyone who follows Fackler thinks a bowling ball going 3 fps is the ultimate weapon. If it's so damn bad why does the U.S Secret Service carry it? I heard a Army Sniper answer a question as to what caliber does he prefer for stopping power....his response A 155 HE round! Why the SS uses the P90, I do not know. Are you certain it is still general issue among SS agents? That it is in inventory doesn't mean it's being used. The AARs from OIS posted in the LF thread I linked are rather telling. Multiple members of large metro PDs that adopted then moved away from 5.7x28. That speaks volumes. Again I love my two PS90 SBRs. They're neat and direct lineage to the steyr AUG. I like them as members of a reference collection and enjoy shooting them. As I posted in a previous thread where you and I had a similar discussion, thank goodness we have the option to choose the PS90 in the US. You like it and feel it's ballistically adequate. I like it and feel it is not ballistically adequate. We can simply agree to disagree. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2017 9:46:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why the SS uses the P90, I do not know. Are you certain it is still general issue among SS agents? That it is in inventory doesn't mean it's being used. The AARs from OIS posted in the LF thread I linked are rather telling. Multiple members of large metro PDs that adopted then moved away from 5.7x28. That speaks volumes. Again I love my two PS90 SBRs. They're neat and direct lineage to the steyr AUG. I like them as members of a reference collection and enjoy shooting them. As I posted in a previous thread where you and I had a similar discussion, thank goodness we have the option to choose the PS90 in the US. You like it and feel it's ballistically adequate. I like it and feel it is not ballistically adequate. We can simply agree to disagree. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/18/2017 10:01:03 PM EDT
[#26]
I know USMC 8th &I had P90s, and I am sure they were given from the USSS armory. I have talked to a few guys that used them and they are very handy from what I gather. I have wanted a PS90 sbr for a while, I just haven't bit yet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2017 1:06:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Back in 2010, I spoke with a USSS sentry on the White House lawn and he liked the P90. He said he even fired it one-handed and it was pretty controllable at close range. His had the triple rail with an Aimpoint CompM2. Some of you may remember seeing PS90's offered with the "Secret Service" factory optic. They never actually bought any of those, and went with the triple rail instead. I don't think they ever try to conceal the P90. They still had some MP5K's in service for that role at the time. The P90 replaced the MP5A3. They're pretty tight-lipped about their weapons, understandably.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/28/2017 9:16:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always assumed SS used them due to how much firepower they cram into such a small package, like how they used the uzi prior. I'd also assume it pulling double duty as being AP capable as well would be nifty as well. But this is just my assumption. They also get it with the fun switch. One round of 5.7x28 may not be all that impressive. But a couple center mass 5-6 round bursts is a whole nother ball game. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/30/2017 7:30:51 AM EDT
[#29]
So I load up and fired 5 rounds, you could easily pick up on the delayed bcg moving, pulled the target in and at 20 yards, the rounds barely hit the paper! I have a TriPower on mine, and it is a tack driver out to 100m or so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/30/2017 9:04:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know USMC 8th &I had P90s, and I am sure they were given from the USSS armory. I have talked to a few guys that used them and they are very handy from what I gather. I have wanted a PS90 sbr for a while, I just haven't bit yet. Must be a bitch to get ammo for it. I didn't know 5.7 was in the system to even try to get, unless they were DOD police and not USMC |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:40:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And we're off! Those of you debating it's 'stopping power' are missing the point of the cartridge and rifle. It's not supposed to compete with the lethality of service rifle calibers. It's supposed to be better than a pistol in only a marginally larger package. You don't get it because it's great at killing things, you get it because it's such a small handy PDW that *can* kill things. Micro .380s are the handgun you carry when you don't want to carry a handgun. The P90/PS90 is the rifle you carry when you don't want to carry a rifle. 
Forrest |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 5:14:23 AM EDT
[#32]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 8:43:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryGood Lord that looks good! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 11:34:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must be a bitch to get ammo for it. I didn't know 5.7 was in the system to even try to get, unless they were DOD police and not USMC Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know USMC 8th &I had P90s, and I am sure they were given from the USSS armory. I have talked to a few guys that used them and they are very handy from what I gather. I have wanted a PS90 sbr for a while, I just haven't bit yet. Must be a bitch to get ammo for it. I didn't know 5.7 was in the system to even try to get, unless they were DOD police and not USMC USMC Security Forces. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 11:47:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I've been wanting a PS90 for some time now, I have some money burning a hole in my pocket and plan to get a couple guns. I had a 5.7 pistol a few years back and regret selling it and I like the 5.7x28 round so I figured a PS90 SBR'd would be pretty sweet. There's only one place around me that rents this gun and I don't know anybody else that has one so this was my only option to shoot before I buy. The gun was in terrible condition! The gun was so dirty that when you cycled the action (manually, unloaded) the charging handle would go forward and then the bolt carrier would cycle slowly and very delayed, I was almost afraid to shoot it. So I load up and fired 5 rounds, you could easily pick up on the delayed bcg moving, pulled the target in and at 20 yards, the rounds barely hit the paper! Then I noticed the top rail was loose and the red dot was flopping around, the rail was missing the rear most screw and was only attached at the front. Very frustrating. I know this was because the gun was poorly maintained but damn, I just couldn't get comfortable shooting.......I was amazed at how little recoil there was. Having said all that, I may still get one, they hold their value very well and the odds of me losing money if I don't like it is low. Damn. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 12:09:55 AM EDT
[#36]
The reports of poor performance with the 5.7x28 stem from the SS190 black tip round, which is very similar in construction the M855/SS109 projectile for 5.56, but with an aluminum base instead of lead. Notably, the 5.56 M855 was also known for inconsistent performance.
SS190 5.7X28 
5.56 SS109 
DTIC did extensive testing on the M855, and figured out that at close range, FMJ rifle bullets are flopping up and down, known as "fleet yaw," and depending on their orientation upon striking, the bullet would either rapidly tumble and be effective, or punch straight through 8-10" with an icepick profile before tumbling. Demonstration: 
DTIC Data My hypothesis is that since the SS190 projectile is so similar to the M855, that it is equally vulnerable to the Fleet Yaw effect, and that the reports of poor performance of the 5.7x28 are not due to the power of the cartridge, but rather due to the SS190 not rapidly tumbling and instead punching straight through, similar to the bad luck experienced with the M855. Notably, when the 5.7x28 had been used by civilians in both offensive and hunting applications, with the SS197, SS192, and SS198, reports have been quite favorable. Likewise, gel tests of Elite's various loads are all quite impressive. 5.7X28 Hog Hunting Elite S4M load Gel test - identical velocity and projectile to the SS198 when fired from the PS90: Video Much like the 9mm was widely maligned in its earlier life due to poor projectile design, I suspect the 5.7x28 has been similarly blamed for the terrible design of the SS190 projectile. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 10:42:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Yes the newly manufactured S4M is pretty much the same velocity as SS198, but when Elite was using FN brass Buffman was reporting over 2,400 fps out of the FiveseveN handgun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 11:10:59 AM EDT
[#38]
I do believe a recent even where a BG killed an officer with a FSN and SS190. I think he only hit the officer three times, with one being in the back, and it penetrated his vest..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 11:35:55 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I've been wanting a PS90 for some time now, I have some money burning a hole in my pocket and plan to get a couple guns. I had a 5.7 pistol a few years back and regret selling it and I like the 5.7x28 round so I figured a PS90 SBR'd would be pretty sweet. There's only one place around me that rents this gun and I don't know anybody else that has one so this was my only option to shoot before I buy. The gun was in terrible condition! The gun was so dirty that when you cycled the action (manually, unloaded) the charging handle would go forward and then the bolt carrier would cycle slowly and very delayed, I was almost afraid to shoot it. So I load up and fired 5 rounds, you could easily pick up on the delayed bcg moving, pulled the target in and at 20 yards, the rounds barely hit the paper! Then I noticed the top rail was loose and the red dot was flopping around, the rail was missing the rear most screw and was only attached at the front. Very frustrating. I know this was because the gun was poorly maintained but damn, I just couldn't get comfortable shooting.......I was amazed at how little recoil there was. Having said all that, I may still get one, they hold their value very well and the odds of me losing money if I don't like it is low. Damn. I think with a brand new one and nice optic you'll love it. They're such cool guns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 12:01:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there is a tremendous amount of data on the ineffectiveness of other pistol cartridges including the .45 acp. Most of it second hand, third hand, twenty fifth hand.... This is documented... From Skokie, IL 8/28/2008 Sgt. Timothy Gramins now carries 145 rounds of ammunition, every day, without fail. Why? Because he was involved in a shootout where the bad guy just Would Not Stop, even though he was hit 17 times(!) with .45 ACP bullets(!) From a full-sized Glock 21! In general it would be hard to carry much more gun than a Glock 21. Now, part of the internet gun banter is that “.45 ACP won’t just kill a man, it’ll also kill his soul”… or, another is to say “.45: because why shoot twice?” But in Sgt. Gramins’ case, he had to fire magazine after magazine at this attacker, and he scored 17 hits, and at least six of those hits would have been fatal: the attacker was hit in the heart, both lungs, the liver, the diaphragm, and a kidney. You cannot fault Sgt. Gramins’ shot placement! And you can’t fault his choice of weapon or caliber; .45 ACP is about as good as it gets in handguns. But the simple fact of the matter is, the perpetrator simply Would Not Stop. All in all, Sgt. Gramins fired 33 rounds, hitting 17 times. The attacker fired a total of 21 rounds from two different handguns. Gramins finally took the attacker down with three shots to the head – but even then, the attacker was still alive when taken to the emergency room. He would (probably) have died from any of those six shots before the head shots, but the big question is: when? Certainly not immediately, and those shots didn’t take him out of the fight – he continued to fire at Sgt. Gramins, and could have potentially killed the officer, even though he would (likely) have eventually died from his injuries. Again, it’s not about killing, it’s about STOPPING, and in this case the perpetrator simply would not stop, even though he’d been hit with lots of big .45 ACP bullets. Even the vaunted .45 acp couldn't end the gunfight. Article in Police Magazine on gunfight Handguns are piss-poor man-stoppers. The caliber debate is mental masturbation. Shotgun or rifle. /CSB |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 10:08:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love mine, I vote that you still get one. I think with a brand new one and nice optic you'll love it. They're such cool guns. I'm hoping that I'll stumble across an OD green model and snap it up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 11:28:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hoping that I'll stumble across an OD green model and snap it up. They're out there, I purchased a Black stock PS90 and listed it on fnforum.net as want to trade for Green stock. I had a response in less than two days. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/2/2017 12:02:01 AM EDT
[#43]
The Ps90 is so stupid easy to strip and clean I am deeply disappointed the shops allow them to get into that condition.
the ps90 is a very fun gun Mine is an OD green gen in the 1 3000 serial range the white ring sight is mediocre the black ring USSG SIGHT i DON'T LIKE I put on the rail and a t-1 the gun is a great shooter 200 yard hits while not easy are possible. but to get the most enjoyment out of it mount a tlr-2G in a side rail. sight it in for 50 meters I have a 5.7 pistol too It is a load of fun but a littel too big in the grip. the ps90's only problem is the handstop will beat your left trigger knuckle up I won't tell nyone to get one but I very much enjoy mine & have used it to hunt coyotes & turkey. It works very well |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File